tick tick tick tick
Discussion
I am investigating a ticking noise which I am pretty sure comes from only one (alternator) side of the engine. It has been getting louder, hence a need to look into it. The noise speed goes with engine speed.
I have taken a few pictures
Exhaust gaskets or holed manifold- Changed the gaskets, it didn't help. The manifold looks ok.
Rockers- the little bowl recess in one has a little score. Would this make a noise?
Valve clearances- I checked and adjusted them all. It didn't help. There is some wear on the rockers- this picture shows the worst one, would that really do it?
[pic]http://www.stephenlees.plus.com/PICT2266.JPG[/pic]
Push rods all look OK, and I am going to take the head off next to look at the cam lifters and cam, which I would rather not!!
These little plastic thingies inside the spring, should they really be in that position?
[pic]http://www.stephenlees.plus.com/PICT2263.JPG[/pic]
Any suggestions as to where to go next. This is starting to depress me!:(
I have taken a few pictures
Exhaust gaskets or holed manifold- Changed the gaskets, it didn't help. The manifold looks ok.
Rockers- the little bowl recess in one has a little score. Would this make a noise?
Valve clearances- I checked and adjusted them all. It didn't help. There is some wear on the rockers- this picture shows the worst one, would that really do it?
[pic]http://www.stephenlees.plus.com/PICT2266.JPG[/pic]
Push rods all look OK, and I am going to take the head off next to look at the cam lifters and cam, which I would rather not!!
These little plastic thingies inside the spring, should they really be in that position?
[pic]http://www.stephenlees.plus.com/PICT2263.JPG[/pic]
Any suggestions as to where to go next. This is starting to depress me!:(
Hi Stigproducts
Looks possible the wear in the rocker arm could be the cause. If clearances are set with a feeler blade then the recess caused by wear will mean the actual rocker arm to valve stem clearance will be more than the specified amount. This will of course cause your ticking sound.
It is possble to carefully linish the rocker arm a small amount which will return the contact surface back to smooth - allowing the feeler blade to measure the gap correctly. Ideally though you should replace the rocker arm with a new one.
A good way to make sure this noise is the rocker/valve clearance is to put the car in say 4th gear when going up a hill that requires say 3rd - this will labour the engine slightly - if the clicking gets louder then suspect the tappet clearance is too large.
Looks possible the wear in the rocker arm could be the cause. If clearances are set with a feeler blade then the recess caused by wear will mean the actual rocker arm to valve stem clearance will be more than the specified amount. This will of course cause your ticking sound.
It is possble to carefully linish the rocker arm a small amount which will return the contact surface back to smooth - allowing the feeler blade to measure the gap correctly. Ideally though you should replace the rocker arm with a new one.
A good way to make sure this noise is the rocker/valve clearance is to put the car in say 4th gear when going up a hill that requires say 3rd - this will labour the engine slightly - if the clicking gets louder then suspect the tappet clearance is too large.
If the 3rd rocker in the photo was in the engine, which as such a scrap item as it has been ground away beyond the hardening (this is done by engine reconditions as a quick fix to ensure that the valve clearances are good ....for short time...and it now has accerated the wear and IF the feeler gauges were wider that the central wear THEN you will of measured the overall pad and not the contact point between the rocker and the valve....hence the ...tappet... tappet tappet, err, like a loose tappet. Adrian
stigproducts said:
Hi, yes it was with a feeler gauge.
How else to do it?? What widget would I need?
You can use a dial gauge to measure the backlash at the rocker arm. It may be the rocker is has worn through the hardening as described above, in which case the tapping would go away and quickly return as the pad wore away. But it may not have worn that far, so it's worth a go.
stigproducts
My ticking got louder with engine note, reseting the tappets would shut it up for a very short while, 5 miles down the road it would be back - diagnosis - rocker stud fixing in the head (remember me engine had been subject to a fair about of abuse!)
Quite a big job to put right
davidy
My ticking got louder with engine note, reseting the tappets would shut it up for a very short while, 5 miles down the road it would be back - diagnosis - rocker stud fixing in the head (remember me engine had been subject to a fair about of abuse!)
Quite a big job to put right
davidy
Thanks all.
Noise is there even when stationary, so not he speedo.
If Adrian says the rocker has had it then it isn't going back on the engine.
So, I will investing in a new set of rockers then!
David, thats something you have mentioned before and now I took the top end apart I know what you mean, the studs seem ok in there slots mind.
Neil- thats a worrying suggestion , because I do go through some oil. I had the heads off a couple of years ago and to my untrained eye the valves looked good. I think to try the new rockers first because my cash flow wouldn't be able to handle a head rebuild.
>> Edited by stigproducts on Monday 5th September 08:59
Noise is there even when stationary, so not he speedo.
If Adrian says the rocker has had it then it isn't going back on the engine.
So, I will investing in a new set of rockers then!
David, thats something you have mentioned before and now I took the top end apart I know what you mean, the studs seem ok in there slots mind.
Neil- thats a worrying suggestion , because I do go through some oil. I had the heads off a couple of years ago and to my untrained eye the valves looked good. I think to try the new rockers first because my cash flow wouldn't be able to handle a head rebuild.
>> Edited by stigproducts on Monday 5th September 08:59
Forgot to mention a tool called Click-adjust is available and allows a more accurate setting of tappets than a feeler guage since it can make an allowance for wear on the rockers.
Also. scrap engines are cheap enough so you could always replace the damaged rockers with some second hand ones. make sure they are from the same size engine though, since the rocker ratios differ from engine to engine.
You must find out why the face of the rocker pad has become so worn though?
The little plastic thingys you mention are valve stem oil seals, more commonly fitted to the exhaust side rather than inlet , but could be on both.
Neil.
Also. scrap engines are cheap enough so you could always replace the damaged rockers with some second hand ones. make sure they are from the same size engine though, since the rocker ratios differ from engine to engine.
You must find out why the face of the rocker pad has become so worn though?
The little plastic thingys you mention are valve stem oil seals, more commonly fitted to the exhaust side rather than inlet , but could be on both.
Neil.
Mine makes a noise like that, and my rocker studs are pinned in, so i don't think that's the problem.
You can establish whether it's the valve clearances by running the engine with the rocker covers off and carefully inserting a - preferrably old - 5 thou feeler into each gap: if it goes quiet then that's the one. Keep it at tickover though, or the rockers will start to flick oil about the place.
It would also be worth running it with the alternator belt off, just to rule out the alternator and water pump.
Check the PCV valve too, as these can rattle at tickover - and it's difficult to tell if the noise is speeding up or going away as the engine revs increase.
When I finally get round to investigating the noise mine makes I will also look to see if one of the pushrods is contacting its guide.
Having said that I am the man who just discovered that I've been running round for a year with the timing out by 6 degrees...I fitted electronic ignition and forgot to disconnect the vacuum advance before checking the timing afterwards...so I may not be such a reliable source of ideas.
HTH
Nick.
You can establish whether it's the valve clearances by running the engine with the rocker covers off and carefully inserting a - preferrably old - 5 thou feeler into each gap: if it goes quiet then that's the one. Keep it at tickover though, or the rockers will start to flick oil about the place.
It would also be worth running it with the alternator belt off, just to rule out the alternator and water pump.
Check the PCV valve too, as these can rattle at tickover - and it's difficult to tell if the noise is speeding up or going away as the engine revs increase.
When I finally get round to investigating the noise mine makes I will also look to see if one of the pushrods is contacting its guide.
Having said that I am the man who just discovered that I've been running round for a year with the timing out by 6 degrees...I fitted electronic ignition and forgot to disconnect the vacuum advance before checking the timing afterwards...so I may not be such a reliable source of ideas.
HTH
Nick.
As many of you peeps know, I know a fair bit about the V6 & fully mapped is what we are working on for my 320BHP+ Tamiar Turbo, once the map is set it will work on all essex engines....However the thought of trying to get a magnetic mounted dial gauge to give good readings off the lip of the head is nigh on impossible. Here is another thought...is the head unleaded IF the valve seat were loose IT would clash with the valve, bounce back and cause the rocker arm wear and produce the noise, I'm still going with rocker arm and will send one out FOC just to try it, call me on 07956956042 and I will get one out to you.
Thanks Adrian, it isn't an unleaded head in this case.
Looking again at the rocker tonight I think there is a clear case for your diagnosis being correct. From the noise it makes it seems like only one or 2 of the rockers are causing a problem. There is only a clear "concave area" on the one pictured, and possibly one other.
For the record this one is over the cylinder below the alternator, and the other one next to it
I have Mr Wade sending me a set, and once they are fitted and the engine running I will make a point of posting the results back here. I very much hope you are right and I can get the car back on the road where it belongs!!
BTW Mr Wade isn't convinced that the original ford rockers ever had hardened tips. He talked me out of roller rockers.
Looking again at the rocker tonight I think there is a clear case for your diagnosis being correct. From the noise it makes it seems like only one or 2 of the rockers are causing a problem. There is only a clear "concave area" on the one pictured, and possibly one other.
For the record this one is over the cylinder below the alternator, and the other one next to it
I have Mr Wade sending me a set, and once they are fitted and the engine running I will make a point of posting the results back here. I very much hope you are right and I can get the car back on the road where it belongs!!
BTW Mr Wade isn't convinced that the original ford rockers ever had hardened tips. He talked me out of roller rockers.
Just a point to note IF any one is considering Roller rockers from the Yella Terra range. I used them on my fully mapped fuel injected M Turbo back in 1999 with no adverse problems. At the time of building that engine I chose the forged rockers of a 1.55 to 1 ratio coupled to the standard Turbo Cam. There was an alternative cast set of 1.5 to 1. So before buying consider the valve lift on your cam. 320 Adrian you'll have to do better than that..........
Ish. I got some used, refaced, rockers from JWD and have fitted them.
In the meantime, whle I was in the mood, I popped the gearbox off and got it repaired (now collected and awaiting fitting); so I haven't started the engine up yet. That was BGH BTW; done and dusted (thanks again for the leads).
When the pile of bits becomes one once more, I will post the outcome.
>> Edited by stigproducts on Wednesday 12th October 13:43
In the meantime, whle I was in the mood, I popped the gearbox off and got it repaired (now collected and awaiting fitting); so I haven't started the engine up yet. That was BGH BTW; done and dusted (thanks again for the leads).
When the pile of bits becomes one once more, I will post the outcome.
>> Edited by stigproducts on Wednesday 12th October 13:43
Fair enough. 
I haven't taken my gearbox to BGH yet - the overdrive on the one on the car failed on the startline at Gurston so I had to throw the spare box togather and get it on the car in a hurry instead...
...and now the season's finished I can take it all to bits again and start over. Oh joy.
Still, while it's all out I can do what I need to to relocate the mounts etc so it goes in five inches further back than it sits at the moment.
I haven't taken my gearbox to BGH yet - the overdrive on the one on the car failed on the startline at Gurston so I had to throw the spare box togather and get it on the car in a hurry instead...
...and now the season's finished I can take it all to bits again and start over. Oh joy.
Still, while it's all out I can do what I need to to relocate the mounts etc so it goes in five inches further back than it sits at the moment.
Car back on the road, it only took me 4 months!
Engine all better, it was the tappets.
And the gearbox doesn't leak anymore either, nor does the sump which I found to have a hole in, that someone had filled with body filler!!!
New sump on there, and my driveway can relax once more!
Heightswitch mentions below I should find out HOW the rocker got so worn. well I think the answer is the engine got a little low on oil. This was becasue of leaks. From the sump, and from the inlet manifold gasket. What i found was if I used blue hylomar on the cork bit at either end then it would squeeze out in tightening and allow oil out there. I have fixed this too.
Thanks to those below for the advice.
Stephen
>> Edited by stigproducts on Saturday 3rd December 22:13
Engine all better, it was the tappets.
And the gearbox doesn't leak anymore either, nor does the sump which I found to have a hole in, that someone had filled with body filler!!!
New sump on there, and my driveway can relax once more!
Heightswitch mentions below I should find out HOW the rocker got so worn. well I think the answer is the engine got a little low on oil. This was becasue of leaks. From the sump, and from the inlet manifold gasket. What i found was if I used blue hylomar on the cork bit at either end then it would squeeze out in tightening and allow oil out there. I have fixed this too.
Thanks to those below for the advice.
Stephen
>> Edited by stigproducts on Saturday 3rd December 22:13
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