Could something like Group B ever return ?
Discussion
Nothing fun like group B will return as long as the MSA persist with the stupid K.37 rule being imposed which will outlaw the nearest we have to the Group B cars at the moment namely, Andy Burtons Peugeot 'thing' and David Kynastons Audi A3 Quattro.
No improvising/home built exotica to be allowed which is sad.
No improvising/home built exotica to be allowed which is sad.
nic jones said:
Nothing fun like group B will return as long as the MSA persist with the stupid K.37 rule being imposed which will outlaw the nearest we have to the Group B cars at the moment namely, Andy Burtons Peugeot 'thing' and David Kynastons Audi A3 Quattro.
No improvising/home built exotica to be allowed which is sad.
No improvising/home built exotica to be allowed which is sad.
There's plenty outside of the MSA though
You wont ever see such a thing on a forest stage again, but ....
There's nothing quite like the old Rallycross Group B supercars, based on the old GpB warriors, only with more power! (6R4's and RS200 still out there in BRDC)
Have been out in practice in Rallycross and passed by Group B cars (me in a lowly 205!) nothing else quite like it, the noise and sensation of speed incredible.
Dont think anything else like it will be allowed in these santised days...
There's nothing quite like the old Rallycross Group B supercars, based on the old GpB warriors, only with more power! (6R4's and RS200 still out there in BRDC)
Have been out in practice in Rallycross and passed by Group B cars (me in a lowly 205!) nothing else quite like it, the noise and sensation of speed incredible.
Dont think anything else like it will be allowed in these santised days...
Rallying could do with its own version of F1, which to all intents and purposes was the gap that group B filled. At a Grand Prix, the support races benefit from the exposure they get from being at the same race, as it attracts a bigger audience than they can on their own. Group B was a 'halo series' for rallying - the public at large aren't that arsed with watching gravel being thrown up by what, to them, is just a bodykitted Focus.
Group B was a real pleaser for the public - not only did they get more 'extreme' rally cars to watch, but we would also get 200 or so utterly barmy road cars, from a manufacturer that probably made your nan's car. It made the manufacturers create some real legends.
Can you imagine if Ford made a modern day equivalent of the RS200, or Audi the SWB Quattro? They'd sell a lot more than 200!
Group B was a real pleaser for the public - not only did they get more 'extreme' rally cars to watch, but we would also get 200 or so utterly barmy road cars, from a manufacturer that probably made your nan's car. It made the manufacturers create some real legends.
Can you imagine if Ford made a modern day equivalent of the RS200, or Audi the SWB Quattro? They'd sell a lot more than 200!
slippydiff said:
Juha Kankkunen reported wheelspin in top gear (on 12" wide ?) slicks in his 205Ti6 during the Corsican rally in '85.........
The old man used to rally in a Group B Sierra Cosworth in the '80's before they were banned and in the dry on slicks it could spin its wheels in 5th gear. So it was possible.
FourWheelDrift said:
And over the same stages on a WRC the modern cars will be faster than the group B cars.
Well that depends on the stage really - modern WRC has moved towards tighter, twistier, narrower stages in an attempt to keep average speeds down (for safety) and sure, on those stages a modern WRC car with active diffs, antilag, modern tyres and suspension etc will be quicker. But on more open stages that they don't use for WRC anymore a group B car would probably still have it simply due to having double the power.
Cars faster than Group B are still running in the big hillclimbs though, such as Monster Tajima's 950+ bhp, 850kg Suzuki, and Rod Millens old 1000bhp Celica which still holds the Pikes Peak record. At the Race to the Sky down here in NZ theres a few (heavily modified) Imprezas and Lancers running 6-800 bhp as well, and 400bhp winged quad bikes.
Mentalism is still alive and well
nic jones said:
slippydiff said:
Juha Kankkunen reported wheelspin in top gear (on 12" wide ?) slicks in his 205Ti6 during the Corsican rally in '85.........
The old man used to rally in a Group B Sierra Cosworth in the '80's before they were banned and in the dry on slicks it could spin its wheels in 5th gear. So it was possible.
juha kankkunen did not report wheelspin in top gear on slicks in a 205ti6 in corsica in 1985 or even 1986.
Edited by stockhatcher on Friday 16th February 08:34
stockhatcher said:
nic jones said:
slippydiff said:
Juha Kankkunen reported wheelspin in top gear (on 12" wide ?) slicks in his 205Ti6 during the Corsican rally in '85.........
The old man used to rally in a Group B Sierra Cosworth in the '80's before they were banned and in the dry on slicks it could spin its wheels in 5th gear. So it was possible.
juha kankkunen did not report wheelspin in top gear on slicks in a 205ti6 in corsica in 1985 or even 1986.
Edited by stockhatcher on Friday 16th February 08:34
i think what stockhatcher is trying to say is that it is impossible because kankkunen didnt drive a Peugeot 205T16 in Corsica
pablo said:
stockhatcher said:
nic jones said:
slippydiff said:
Juha Kankkunen reported wheelspin in top gear (on 12" wide ?) slicks in his 205Ti6 during the Corsican rally in '85.........
The old man used to rally in a Group B Sierra Cosworth in the '80's before they were banned and in the dry on slicks it could spin its wheels in 5th gear. So it was possible.
juha kankkunen did not report wheelspin in top gear on slicks in a 205ti6 in corsica in 1985 or even 1986.
Edited by stockhatcher on Friday 16th February 08:34
i think what stockhatcher is trying to say is that it is impossible because kankkunen didnt drive a Peugeot 205T16 in Corsica
Or that Kankkunen didn't drive the 205 until 1986 rather than 1985.
GravelBen said:
Cars faster than Group B are still running in the big hillclimbs though, such as Monster Tajima's 950+ bhp, 850kg Suzuki, and Rod Millens old 1000bhp Celica which still holds the Pikes Peak record. At the Race to the Sky down here in NZ theres a few (heavily modified) Imprezas and Lancers running 6-800 bhp as well, and 400bhp winged quad bikes.
Mentalism is still alive and well
Thank god.
Trouble is, I want to watch all of it, not just highlights, and I'd love to watch it without stupid music or planky commentators.
I hope someone is making DVD's of them.
stockhatcher said:
nic jones said:
slippydiff said:
Juha Kankkunen reported wheelspin in top gear (on 12" wide ?) slicks in his 205Ti6 during the Corsican rally in '85.........
The old man used to rally in a Group B Sierra Cosworth in the '80's before they were banned and in the dry on slicks it could spin its wheels in 5th gear. So it was possible.
juha kankkunen did not report wheelspin in top gear on slicks in a 205ti6 in corsica in 1985 or even 1986.
Edited by stockhatcher on Friday 16th February 08:34
Fair enough, but i'm saying it was possible to spin the wheels up in top gear on those monsters.
Anything rwd & 500+ bhp will spin the rears up in just about any gear even shod with slicks, hence the Cossies, Manta 400's, Toyota Gt thing were not as fast as the 4wd stuff, but boy were they fast cars.
Rallying's definately lost its edge ever since & yes I beleive the manufacturers have something to gain from rallying some bonkers machinery, imagine an RS4/6 on some stages
Rallying's definately lost its edge ever since & yes I beleive the manufacturers have something to gain from rallying some bonkers machinery, imagine an RS4/6 on some stages
RobPhoboS said:
GravelBen said:
Cars faster than Group B are still running in the big hillclimbs though, such as Monster Tajima's 950+ bhp, 850kg Suzuki, and Rod Millens old 1000bhp Celica which still holds the Pikes Peak record. At the Race to the Sky down here in NZ theres a few (heavily modified) Imprezas and Lancers running 6-800 bhp as well, and 400bhp winged quad bikes.
Mentalism is still alive and well
Thank god.
Trouble is, I want to watch all of it, not just highlights, and I'd love to watch it without stupid music or planky commentators.
I hope someone is making DVD's of them.
www.racetothesky.com/default.asp?articleid=19
couple short clips here www.fastestmaori.co.nz/gallery.htm? of Marty Roestenburgs 700bhp Impreza 3.0 H6
sounds pretty good. Edited by GravelBen on Friday 16th February 21:12
GravelBen said:
FourWheelDrift said:
And over the same stages on a WRC the modern cars will be faster than the group B cars.
Well that depends on the stage really - modern WRC has moved towards tighter, twistier, narrower stages in an attempt to keep average speeds down (for safety) and sure, on those stages a modern WRC car with active diffs, antilag, modern tyres and suspension etc will be quicker. But on more open stages that they don't use for WRC anymore a group B car would probably still have it simply due to having double the power.
Cars faster than Group B are still running in the big hillclimbs though, such as Monster Tajima's 950+ bhp, 850kg Suzuki, and Rod Millens old 1000bhp Celica which still holds the Pikes Peak record. At the Race to the Sky down here in NZ theres a few (heavily modified) Imprezas and Lancers running 6-800 bhp as well, and 400bhp winged quad bikes.
Mentalism is still alive and well
Insane laugh..............no thats not possible.....................HAHAHA
MoJo
stockhatcher said:
slippydiff said:
Juha Kankkunen reported wheelspin in top gear (on 12" wide ?) slicks in his 205Ti6 during the Corsican rally in '85.........
no he didn't.
Hmmmm, didn't think that one through did I ?
Possibly Timo Salonen before he crashed out whilst trying to overtake another car in '86 perhaps ?
I remember reading it in MN and thinking
A very good video that goes into the demise of group B....
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_paMnDbuqSE
...and the relaunch of group A..
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUfn0STzbgU
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_paMnDbuqSE
...and the relaunch of group A..
www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUfn0STzbgU
Edited by F.M on Saturday 17th February 15:02
nic jones said:
slippydiff said:
Juha Kankkunen reported wheelspin in top gear (on 12" wide ?) slicks in his 205Ti6 during the Corsican rally in '85.........
The old man used to rally in a Group B Sierra Cosworth in the '80's before they were banned and in the dry on slicks it could spin its wheels in 5th gear. So it was possible.
There was no such thing as a Group B Sierra Cosworth, that was a GroupA car, a far less performant car in all areas. They were never banned either.
The rear suspension on a Sierra Cosworth is pretty poor in terms of tractive ability, i could get mine spinning at 100MPH+ with only 350BHP. That says more about the geometries and the tyres than how quick a car is.
You can have a RWD car running 800+BHP giving full traction in the higher gears if you get the tyres, suspension and aerodynamics right, it's not exactly huge power to handle if the car is properly designed.
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