Discussion
teamHOLDENracing said:
Guys - unless you are running the very soft compound slicks that we used up until 2004, you will easily get 4 race weekends out of a set of slicks and quite possibly more. This of course depends on not flat spotting them or sustaining damage/punctures
I would say though that you need to budget at least a thousand pounds as contingency whatever you run. If you don't have that then it doesn't stop you racing, but if you don't and you break a gearbox, suffer engine problems or have a bump, then that probably will stop you racing.
At the very least per race it will cost you:
£400 approx entry fee (double header)
£200 tyres (assuming you make them last 4 meetings)
£100 race fuel and oils
£30 BRSCC membership, race licence, registration fee etc spread across the season
£100 Tow car fuel, food, tent/car/cheap hotel overnight
£15 Brake fluid
£50 Brake pads and other consumables
and that assumes no breakages, accidents or preventative maintenance. It also ignores the costs of engine, gearbox, diff refresh, damper servicing, buying, servicing and insuring your trailer and the odd performance enhancement you may wish to make. There are those who may say you can do it cheaper but I don't see how you can. You might be able to eek a set of tyres out for longer, but you'll also need wets and Murphy's law says you'll get a puncture...
In my view it is better to prep the car properly, be safe and do fewer meetings than try to do all the meetings on an absolute shoestring. The latter is a recipe for not finishing races and then the per lap costs get really high!
MY WIFE READS THIS THREAD !!!!!!!I would say though that you need to budget at least a thousand pounds as contingency whatever you run. If you don't have that then it doesn't stop you racing, but if you don't and you break a gearbox, suffer engine problems or have a bump, then that probably will stop you racing.
At the very least per race it will cost you:
£400 approx entry fee (double header)
£200 tyres (assuming you make them last 4 meetings)
£100 race fuel and oils
£30 BRSCC membership, race licence, registration fee etc spread across the season
£100 Tow car fuel, food, tent/car/cheap hotel overnight
£15 Brake fluid
£50 Brake pads and other consumables
and that assumes no breakages, accidents or preventative maintenance. It also ignores the costs of engine, gearbox, diff refresh, damper servicing, buying, servicing and insuring your trailer and the odd performance enhancement you may wish to make. There are those who may say you can do it cheaper but I don't see how you can. You might be able to eek a set of tyres out for longer, but you'll also need wets and Murphy's law says you'll get a puncture...
In my view it is better to prep the car properly, be safe and do fewer meetings than try to do all the meetings on an absolute shoestring. The latter is a recipe for not finishing races and then the per lap costs get really high!
N.
I budget between 500-1000 per meeting ( up to now we've been paying circa 260 in entry fees for a double header), but I am tight, sleep in the car, and make tyres last a lot longer than they should... That hurts the lap times, but it does mean I can make 2 sets last a season...
The cheapest year i had was 2006 when Ironically we won the challenge that came in at just shy of 6.5k, which imho was dam good value in any series.... although even that sounds a lot in one chunk...Last year was more expensive for much less, but then in total cadwell Cost me about 5 grand.....
so it pays to keep them out of the tyre walls and not set alight to them ( at least not until the car has stopped!!!)
Although I had some of my dads mates out at a race meeting and he put it into context by saying his dad spends 50 quid a week on his racing pigeons !!
The alternative to Dl1's was lots of rolling road testing, which is a pain and can easily cost a couple of hundred quid each visit by the time you've got you car there and tested, not to mention the stress of running on the rollers.... Then you've got the variance in rollers, and the tweeks you can do to even a sealed engine... The advantage of the DL1 is that every car can be tested every time it goes out, and its also a very useful bit of kit for analysis. the p/w is only a by product of what it can do...
If your building from scratch the dl1/dash2 combo is a lot more powerful and cheaper than a set of instruments. The other factor was that about half the guys have one from when we ran them in the tvrcc challenge, doesnt help if dont, but does help some..
At this level though its important to make sure your racing is sustainable. We would all like to see every car out at every round, but at the end of the day it is only a hobby so do what you can when you can.
I'd go much quicker if I bought more tyres and did more testing but I'd run out of money before the end of the season. This year after Rockingham we decided on an early bath. At a push we could have got out for the last two rounds but I'd have been broke so we pulled it...
Cheers
G
The cheapest year i had was 2006 when Ironically we won the challenge that came in at just shy of 6.5k, which imho was dam good value in any series.... although even that sounds a lot in one chunk...Last year was more expensive for much less, but then in total cadwell Cost me about 5 grand.....
so it pays to keep them out of the tyre walls and not set alight to them ( at least not until the car has stopped!!!) Although I had some of my dads mates out at a race meeting and he put it into context by saying his dad spends 50 quid a week on his racing pigeons !!
The alternative to Dl1's was lots of rolling road testing, which is a pain and can easily cost a couple of hundred quid each visit by the time you've got you car there and tested, not to mention the stress of running on the rollers.... Then you've got the variance in rollers, and the tweeks you can do to even a sealed engine... The advantage of the DL1 is that every car can be tested every time it goes out, and its also a very useful bit of kit for analysis. the p/w is only a by product of what it can do...
If your building from scratch the dl1/dash2 combo is a lot more powerful and cheaper than a set of instruments. The other factor was that about half the guys have one from when we ran them in the tvrcc challenge, doesnt help if dont, but does help some..
At this level though its important to make sure your racing is sustainable. We would all like to see every car out at every round, but at the end of the day it is only a hobby so do what you can when you can.
I'd go much quicker if I bought more tyres and did more testing but I'd run out of money before the end of the season. This year after Rockingham we decided on an early bath. At a push we could have got out for the last two rounds but I'd have been broke so we pulled it...
Cheers
G
If it costs me 1k per meeting i won't be racing very long .. but if you have low expectations (like me) then i wont be too upset if i have to sit half the season out. I'll be running on my formula R tyres until they wear out aswell so that will delay buying the slicks. Also i'm sharing my car which cuts on prep costs and entries.
If it's your first season racing i would think that making sure you preserve the car and get as much seat time as poss would be the main priority and go for a proper racing season in year 2? Unless you're called sam head in which case year 1 will be a stormer anyway!
If it's your first season racing i would think that making sure you preserve the car and get as much seat time as poss would be the main priority and go for a proper racing season in year 2? Unless you're called sam head in which case year 1 will be a stormer anyway!
short post as my PC dropped the long well written one 
run out of the C'ship.
Turn up when you can/close
RV8 Tussie = 300/tonne anyway (roughly)
no DL1
any tyres you want. (cheaper and longer lasting road slix loike DO1s/R888s)
save £000's and if not fighting for C'ship could still end up with a Pot or two!
run out of the C'ship.
Turn up when you can/close
RV8 Tussie = 300/tonne anyway (roughly)
no DL1
any tyres you want. (cheaper and longer lasting road slix loike DO1s/R888s)
save £000's and if not fighting for C'ship could still end up with a Pot or two!
Guillotine said:
short post as my PC dropped the long well written one
run out of the C'ship.
Turn up when you can/close
RV8 Tussie = 300/tonne anyway (roughly)
no DL1
any tyres you want. (cheaper and longer lasting road slix loike DO1s/R888s)
save £000's and if not fighting for C'ship could still end up with a Pot or two!
In theory you can only run on non Dunlop Tyres until your original set have worn out... but I managed to get a set of Dunlop DO1j's to last a full season in 2005 ( i think they are do2j's now), you would want some wets to go with them as well, but dunlop do a good set of sporting road tyres 9000's or something...run out of the C'ship.
Turn up when you can/close
RV8 Tussie = 300/tonne anyway (roughly)
no DL1
any tyres you want. (cheaper and longer lasting road slix loike DO1s/R888s)
save £000's and if not fighting for C'ship could still end up with a Pot or two!
An Rv8 Tuscan with no DL1 would run in A, but thats why the rules were written that way. If your only interested in actual racing rather than class positons you can save a few quid and run in A, you'll still be physically racing the same cars you would be on the track, just not get the points for it.
The Dl1's came about as the drivers wanted something policable...
Edited by Graham on Saturday 5th January 10:43
trackcar said:
If it costs me 1k per meeting i won't be racing very long .. but if you have low expectations (like me) then i wont be too upset if i have to sit half the season out. I'll be running on my formula R tyres until they wear out aswell so that will delay buying the slicks. Also i'm sharing my car which cuts on prep costs and entries.
You're not comparing apples with apples. Leaving aside your tyres, if you are sharing your car then I would expect you to get half the track time for half the costs. Car sharing is a valid point though, and its what I do on the longer Dutch Supercar races. It does bring its own complications (what happens if one driver prangs it) which is why you need to choose your other driver carefully. By that I don't neccessarily mean driving ability, because anyone can have an accident, just that you have trust in each other to resolve any problems
This isn't about scaremongering and talking figures up that put people off. Its simply encouraging people to think through the unavoidable costs and some of the potential costs so they have sensible expectations. All motorsport is expensive, but doing much of it yourself can make it more manageable.
If you are new to it all then trying to get hold of decent secondhand tyres could halve your tyre budget but make very little difference to performance. For example if you run 17" rims then you may be able to use BTCC cast offs
the cost of 2008 season is starting to dawn on me, might have to put the wife and kids on e-bay if anything goes wrong, but i would sacrifice a lot of things to go racing even for one season!we gave the car a shake down before xmas at brands which went very well, another at snetterton on the 26th can't wait.
thanks for all this advice chaps it is invaluable to first timers like keith & i.
keep it coming !!
Well a lot is going to depend, or the enty fee, and what you spend on tyres.
Also you got to take in account of testing, BRSCC membership etc, and dividing that over the season. plus all the silly small things. so you have to be thinking of about 6-7k for the full season, and if you got some left then its a bonus.
As said you don't have to do the full season. and you don't have to test at each track.
Also you got to take in account of testing, BRSCC membership etc, and dividing that over the season. plus all the silly small things. so you have to be thinking of about 6-7k for the full season, and if you got some left then its a bonus.
As said you don't have to do the full season. and you don't have to test at each track.
Testing is one area that you can save / spend a lot of money on.. Testing will help you make the car reliable, and find some speed, but it also costs money, adds to wear and tear on the car and is another chance to stuff the car..
To be honest in your first season, I'd do a couple of pre season tests to shake things down, and then just rock up to the circuit on race day... Your learning curve is going to be so big anyway. Get your self a copy of rfactor and download the circuits to get a rough idea of which way the circuits go...
I'll admit I have the advantage of knowing a lot of the circuits but we only did one test day last year.... if your looking for that last 100th of a second then yes you need to test, if your still finding seconds between qually and the race, your probably better just getting a season and maybe some tuition under your belt...
This is a hard and expensive game, if it wasnt everyone would do it... I've huge respect for anyone who puts a car together and turns out, you've really got to want to do it though as you will end up giving up other things to do it trust me
As i've said before though its not worth stretching yourself too far nobody here is going to end up in F1 or even make a bean out of it.. Do what you can when you can and you'll get plenty of years enjoyment out of the sport... Take things to seriously spend too much money and you'll do half a season and be disillusioned.
Im always around for a chat if anyone wants to go through stuff
Cheers
G
To be honest in your first season, I'd do a couple of pre season tests to shake things down, and then just rock up to the circuit on race day... Your learning curve is going to be so big anyway. Get your self a copy of rfactor and download the circuits to get a rough idea of which way the circuits go...
I'll admit I have the advantage of knowing a lot of the circuits but we only did one test day last year.... if your looking for that last 100th of a second then yes you need to test, if your still finding seconds between qually and the race, your probably better just getting a season and maybe some tuition under your belt...
This is a hard and expensive game, if it wasnt everyone would do it... I've huge respect for anyone who puts a car together and turns out, you've really got to want to do it though as you will end up giving up other things to do it trust me
As i've said before though its not worth stretching yourself too far nobody here is going to end up in F1 or even make a bean out of it.. Do what you can when you can and you'll get plenty of years enjoyment out of the sport... Take things to seriously spend too much money and you'll do half a season and be disillusioned.
Im always around for a chat if anyone wants to go through stuff
Cheers
G
You'll need the amb transponder from the westie
The dl1 records gps and accelerometer data, plus what ever else you'd like to plug into it, i.e rpm, lambda, temps, stearing angle, throttle pos, etc etc.
the software on your pc will then build a track map and show lap times, lines, etc and you can graph any of the data. when you add vehicle and temp/pressure info it will calulate power at wheels..
G
The dl1 records gps and accelerometer data, plus what ever else you'd like to plug into it, i.e rpm, lambda, temps, stearing angle, throttle pos, etc etc.
the software on your pc will then build a track map and show lap times, lines, etc and you can graph any of the data. when you add vehicle and temp/pressure info it will calulate power at wheels..
G
Hi all, I Was talking with Dr Lorne Winborn from Race Technology on Saturday and he said he will be contacting Graham this week coming with a deal for us.
The retail price at the show was for the DL1 £586.33 inc vat.
On special show deal -22% was a Dash2 + DL1 +512MB Memory Card +Card Reader. £940.00 inc vat, -22% No doubt Graham will work them well for the best deal and post the costings asap.
The retail price at the show was for the DL1 £586.33 inc vat.
On special show deal -22% was a Dash2 + DL1 +512MB Memory Card +Card Reader. £940.00 inc vat, -22% No doubt Graham will work them well for the best deal and post the costings asap.
Edited by G Star Racing on Sunday 13th January 16:29
Gassing Station | General Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff