First start up ,Arrows A9 BMW Megatron F1 Turbo, Geoff Page

[Life Saab Itch]

busa turbo said:

here is one of the Hart monoblock!

Edited by busa turbo on Tuesday 28th December 17:15

I know where there are 2 of them.

[Martin Keene]

busa turbo said:

here is one of the Hart monoblock!

Edited by busa turbo on Tuesday 28th December 17:15

Erm, would I be right in assuming monoblock = combined cylinder head and block?

[busa turbo]

Erm, would I be right in assuming monoblock = combined cylinder head and block?
[/quote]
Yes head and block all cast as one.

[Life Saab Itch]

busa turbo said:

Martin Keene said:

Erm, would I be right in assuming monoblock = combined cylinder head and block?

Yes head and block all cast as one.

Brian Hart couldn't get head gaskets that would cope with the pressure that the engines were producing. The best way of solving this was to do away with the need for a gasket. A clever solution, but a machinist's nightmare.

[Martin Keene]

Life Saab Itch said:

busa turbo said:

Martin Keene said:

Erm, would I be right in assuming monoblock = combined cylinder head and block?

Yes head and block all cast as one.

Brian Hart couldn't get head gaskets that would cope with the pressure that the engines were producing. The best way of solving this was to do away with the need for a gasket. A clever solution, but a machinist's nightmare.

I'll bet... Does this mean there is no angle on any of the valves? I can't see how it could be machined otherwise.

[Life Saab Itch]

Martin Keene said:

Life Saab Itch said:

busa turbo said:

Martin Keene said:

Erm, would I be right in assuming monoblock = combined cylinder head and block?

Yes head and block all cast as one.

Brian Hart couldn't get head gaskets that would cope with the pressure that the engines were producing. The best way of solving this was to do away with the need for a gasket. A clever solution, but a machinist's nightmare.

I'll bet... Does this mean there is no angle on any of the valves? I can't see how it could be machined otherwise.

This is me hypothesizing, but I would love to be corrected by someone in the know.

The valves are definitely angled. The valve guide holes would be machined from the top of the cylinder.

A boring bar could be put up through the cylinder, poked through the valve guide hole and attached to the mill from there. Specially shaped cutters and a very skilled machinist could cut recesses for the valve seats to be pressed into. Shaping and cleaning of the ports/head could be done by a person with a diegrinder. Maybe with a long extension.

The whole process would be difficult, but by no means impossible.

[motorsportbeng]

yes the valves are still angled, bit of a bh to lap and compress to fit the collets!

[anonymous-user]

This is worth owning if you like this kind of era of F1

[n3il123]

johnfelstead said:

This is worth owning if you like this kind of era of F1

I've got that book ... very interesting, although not exactly "light" reading as it does get quite indepth at points!

[busa turbo]

just a quick update the ARROWS A9 and Alfa Romeo v8 1500cc turbo,as well as a few F1 one turbo engines will be on show at this years Autosport International show.

[randedge]

I had been reading as closely as I can on the Turbo era, and so far I am quite fascinated.

As I do not own the book posted here(at least not yet!), "The 1000bhp cars", I have this one question I would like to ask. In fact, I joined merely to ask this one question:

Were any of the 1.5 liter Turbo cars non-stressed members? I cannot tell just by looking at chassis photos. I suspect they are, but who knows, there could be a backbone in there, as the Inline Fours like the Harts, Zakspeed, and BMW are a bit too narrow.

[Life Saab Itch]

randedge said:

I had been reading as closely as I can on the Turbo era, and so far I am quite fascinated.

As I do not own the book posted here(at least not yet!), "The 1000bhp cars", I have this one question I would like to ask. In fact, I joined merely to ask this one question:

Were any of the 1.5 liter Turbo cars non-stressed members? I cannot tell just by looking at chassis photos. I suspect they are, but who knows, there could be a backbone in there, as the Inline Fours like the Harts, Zakspeed, and BMW are a bit too narrow.

I believe that the vee engined cars were, but the straight four cars needed a bit of help.


I could be wrong on this though.

[scrwright]

Reading the Toleman story at the mo, the Hart engines were stressed members

[Richard-G]

randedge said:

I had been reading as closely as I can on the Turbo era, and so far I am quite fascinated.

As I do not own the book posted here(at least not yet!), "The 1000bhp cars", I have this one question I would like to ask. In fact, I joined merely to ask this one question:

Were any of the 1.5 liter Turbo cars non-stressed members? I cannot tell just by looking at chassis photos. I suspect they are, but who knows, there could be a backbone in there, as the Inline Fours like the Harts, Zakspeed, and BMW are a bit too narrow.

Firstly I love this thread, secondly the m power units first used in the brabhams placed the m series engines in a sort of tubular steel crate, which was then fitted at an angle, it was due to this that they grenaded a lot in the maiden season.

The crate did form part of the structure, the framework was loadbearing.

[jellison]

Life Saab Itch said:

busa turbo said:

Martin Keene said:

Erm, would I be right in assuming monoblock = combined cylinder head and block?

Yes head and block all cast as one.

Brian Hart couldn't get head gaskets that would cope with the pressure that the engines were producing. The best way of solving this was to do away with the need for a gasket. A clever solution, but a machinist's nightmare.

isn't that what bentley did back in the 20-30's?

Yep machining must be mind boggling!

[eastlmark]

You should have seen Brian's small engine shop in Harlow at the time, (although far bigger than his previous place in South Place Harlow). To think he was competing with the likes of Renault, Ferrari, Alfa, Ford and BMW at the time...
I remember the first turbo engine, basicly a F2 unit which had the turbo on top of the engine. Got a great picture of D Warwick fiddling with the turbo in the pits at Dijon (IIRC). will post it if I can find it.
Brian was a customer of mine at the time, visited him many times. Such a shame that F1 is now out of bounds to such determined individuals. Great days!

[busa turbo]

few more pic's sorry if some are repost's!

[kiteless]

Am I right in that the Megatron 4C F1 engine's architecture is pretty much based on the engine from this:



Or is that another urban myth?

[Richard-G]

kiteless said:

Am I right in that the Megatron 4C F1 engine's architecture is pretty much based on the engine from this:



Or is that another urban myth?

No myth, the engine was based around the m10/12 series, blocks used from production and bench tested engines. Theory being if they hadn't let go up until now they'd be good to go!

What isn't a myth is the fuel brabham/bmw got hold of to run them at über boost, supposedly very caustic and dating back to a type used in ww2 by bmw. Interesting story which I hope someone can clarify

[jellison]

busa turbo said:

few more pic's sorry if some are repost's!

Renault? Maybe Ford, pretty sure not a Tag or Honda.