Hamilton to Mercedes
Discussion
History has shown when contracts negotiations are underway, especially with big sporting figures, this type of thing happens. Remember Wayne Rooney and his contract (re)signing for united afew years back? Just before the new contract, he decided to publically announce his intention to leave the club, leaving fergie scratching his head!?, only for him to sign a VERY lucrative new deal with united afew days later.
I guarantee the same method is being used in this instance, and we'll be hearing of a brand new record breaking contract being signed for 100 zillion pounds with mclaren within the next few weeks.
Or I could be talking s
te, and his already preparing to leave for Mercedes 
I guarantee the same method is being used in this instance, and we'll be hearing of a brand new record breaking contract being signed for 100 zillion pounds with mclaren within the next few weeks.
Or I could be talking s
te, and his already preparing to leave for Mercedes It's almost sounds like your blaming the whole spyware event on Alonso' !?...
Let just ignore ALL the wrongs Mclaren (with Ron at the helm) did, the cheating mother fker's.
You don't get fined millions of pounds and walk away thinking your st still smells good, even if you say it does.
Funny how I never hear even a whisper of spygate and how Mclaren felt the need to cheat to try to get back to winning ways on pistonheads!?, lets assume it was the other way, and Ferrari where fined, ph members would spontaneously compust everytime ferrari won a race!
The nuthugging of Mclaren on this forum know's no bounds, it makes me sick.
Let just ignore ALL the wrongs Mclaren (with Ron at the helm) did, the cheating mother f
ker's.You don't get fined millions of pounds and walk away thinking your s
t still smells good, even if you say it does.Funny how I never hear even a whisper of spygate and how Mclaren felt the need to cheat to try to get back to winning ways on pistonheads!?, lets assume it was the other way, and Ferrari where fined, ph members would spontaneously compust everytime ferrari won a race!
The nuthugging of Mclaren on this forum know's no bounds, it makes me sick.
Derek Smith said:
It was Alonso who acted illegally, not RD.
It was Alonso who threatened RD with going to the bloke who was doing some volunteer work in the FIA and telling them that he had acted illegally.
It was RD who, on being threatened, went to Ecclestone's puppet and told him what Alonso had told him. RD acted impeccably. More than could be said of Alonso.
There is no real means for appeal against the decision of the 'court' so RD was left with nowhere to go.
RD did not take it lying down and in fact wrote a letter to the FIA and this bloke doing unpaid work experience and told them that the decision was wrong on virtually all counts. This was very risky. The letter was written by lawyers but in essence once found guilty the most sensible course of action is to roll up in a ball and take it.
It was RD who challenged the amateur who thought he was in charge of F1 and eventually received an apology.
RD did indeed stop attending F1 races for a while but we must remember who came out on top in the end. The Stepneygate scandal backfired. The person who pulled the trigger lost his sinicure and the target went on from strength to strength.
As for the fine, the FIA boasted on its website about how they had spent around 10% or so of the money and then dropped the subject. The size was without precedent. It was almost as if it was personal.
I don't know what happened and I would suggest that there are few who do and they are keeping stum. However, to suggest that it was RD and not Alonso who acted incorrectly is patently wrong. Even the bloke who was kicked out of the FIA had to admit that. Further, far from 'meekly' accepting the decision they fought it as far as they could and further. The rejection letter is a classic of its king: it was brilliant and must have wound up certain people, those it was aimed at. I also know that far from being 'forced out' of F1, I've seen RD at races since that fine. And I feel certain that he had input in the team throughout.
There's enough authoratative comment on the web about the incident to support what I say.
It was Alonso who threatened RD with going to the bloke who was doing some volunteer work in the FIA and telling them that he had acted illegally.
It was RD who, on being threatened, went to Ecclestone's puppet and told him what Alonso had told him. RD acted impeccably. More than could be said of Alonso.
There is no real means for appeal against the decision of the 'court' so RD was left with nowhere to go.
RD did not take it lying down and in fact wrote a letter to the FIA and this bloke doing unpaid work experience and told them that the decision was wrong on virtually all counts. This was very risky. The letter was written by lawyers but in essence once found guilty the most sensible course of action is to roll up in a ball and take it.
It was RD who challenged the amateur who thought he was in charge of F1 and eventually received an apology.
RD did indeed stop attending F1 races for a while but we must remember who came out on top in the end. The Stepneygate scandal backfired. The person who pulled the trigger lost his sinicure and the target went on from strength to strength.
As for the fine, the FIA boasted on its website about how they had spent around 10% or so of the money and then dropped the subject. The size was without precedent. It was almost as if it was personal.
I don't know what happened and I would suggest that there are few who do and they are keeping stum. However, to suggest that it was RD and not Alonso who acted incorrectly is patently wrong. Even the bloke who was kicked out of the FIA had to admit that. Further, far from 'meekly' accepting the decision they fought it as far as they could and further. The rejection letter is a classic of its king: it was brilliant and must have wound up certain people, those it was aimed at. I also know that far from being 'forced out' of F1, I've seen RD at races since that fine. And I feel certain that he had input in the team throughout.
There's enough authoratative comment on the web about the incident to support what I say.
Sofoklis said:
McLaren making their own engine, are you having a laugh? Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault, so far the only manufacturers who actually have a full dyno running 2014 engine on the test bench. It has taken them 2 years just to get to this stage. Where are McLaren going to suddenly find this so called "own" engine from? The relationship they have with Mercedes is a winning combination and both companies benefit from it so I see no reason why they should change. Craig Pollocks "PURE" engine was the only other option but that fell flat on its face a few months ago.
The 2014 grid will be powered by 3 engines unless the FIA make last minute provisions to allow lesser teams to use a reduced power V8 like they did when engine regulations changed from V10s to V8s.
McLaren would be able to get an engine built for 2014, if not in house by a contractor easily enough imho. They'd even be able to buy the resources they'd need.The 2014 grid will be powered by 3 engines unless the FIA make last minute provisions to allow lesser teams to use a reduced power V8 like they did when engine regulations changed from V10s to V8s.
At one time Merc thought they were going to buy McLaren, they owned quite alot of shares in the business (40% IIRC), I don't know what exactly caused the cooling off (maybe the road car plans) but Merc got cold feet and McLaren (or rather its investors) bought back the Merc shares.. this was all a while before Merc bought Brawn.
So, the relationship cooled and at the time the thinking was McLaren wanted to build their own engines, who knows maybe they've got an operation running behind the scenes ? or a contract with a manufacturer already ? we don't know.
Not saying they are definitely going to move away from merc, but if you look at it from Mercedes point of view why give your engine to a competitor thats in front of you ?
Seems to be one of two things.
1) Cage rattling from the Hamilton camp to extract a few extra $$, or to force McLaren's hand on a few sticking points
or
2) Building Brand Hamilton is taking a bigger role than sitting in the fastest car.
If it is indeed number two, then I have to say that McLaren are better off without him.
I wonder what would happen if he announces he announces a m-b seat for 2013 before this season is out. Remember what happened to JPM. Think McLaren wouldn't do the same again?
This could run.
1) Cage rattling from the Hamilton camp to extract a few extra $$, or to force McLaren's hand on a few sticking points
or
2) Building Brand Hamilton is taking a bigger role than sitting in the fastest car.
If it is indeed number two, then I have to say that McLaren are better off without him.
I wonder what would happen if he announces he announces a m-b seat for 2013 before this season is out. Remember what happened to JPM. Think McLaren wouldn't do the same again?
This could run.
aryastark said:
It's almost sounds like your blaming the whole spyware event on Alonso' !?...
God heavens, no. I'm not blaming it all on Alonso. There was Coughlan and Stepney as well. Beyond them, everyone else was a bit-part player.
Alonso used information from Coughlan, colluded with him, but even the bloke who likes beating women had to admit that Dennis knew nothing about it. Nothing! That's from the bloke who fined him all that money.
To suggest, as you seem to, that the fine is in some way the measure of the offence is absurd. The history of the lawyer in F1 shows that.
The history of F1 also shows that teams have attempted to use ideas from other teams all the way through. Indeed, at the time of the Stepneygate fiasco, one other team had the complete details of the current McL but it was felt this was normal.
Hamilton was clean in more ways than one. Unlike Alonso he did not use information from Coughlan for his own ends. Further, and this is significant I believe, despite threats from the man who had to buy women for sex that he could be excluded from F1, Hamilton stuck with McLaren, unlike Alonso who did the dirty on them.
Loyalty is valuable. I think teams will look to LH knowing that they can trust him.
I would assume that the powers that be in Mercedes would remember LH's conduct under extreme pressure. I'm not a big fan of drivers, more of teams, but the way LH behaved all through the attack on McLaren made me warm to him.
Derek Smith said:
aryastark said:
It's almost sounds like your blaming the whole spyware event on Alonso' !?...
God heavens, no. I'm not blaming it all on Alonso. There was Coughlan and Stepney as well. Beyond them, everyone else was a bit-part player.
Alonso used information from Coughlan, colluded with him, but even the bloke who likes beating women had to admit that Dennis knew nothing about it. Nothing! That's from the bloke who fined him all that money.
To suggest, as you seem to, that the fine is in some way the measure of the offence is absurd. The history of the lawyer in F1 shows that.
The history of F1 also shows that teams have attempted to use ideas from other teams all the way through. Indeed, at the time of the Stepneygate fiasco, one other team had the complete details of the current McL but it was felt this was normal.
Hamilton was clean in more ways than one. Unlike Alonso he did not use information from Coughlan for his own ends. Further, and this is significant I believe, despite threats from the man who had to buy women for sex that he could be excluded from F1, Hamilton stuck with McLaren, unlike Alonso who did the dirty on them.
Loyalty is valuable. I think teams will look to LH knowing that they can trust him.
I would assume that the powers that be in Mercedes would remember LH's conduct under extreme pressure. I'm not a big fan of drivers, more of teams, but the way LH behaved all through the attack on McLaren made me warm to him.
RichB said:
Whether or not one agrees with your point of view one always gets a well reasoned and articulated argument from you Derek.
Thanks (I think).Being a big McLaren fan, then and now, I kept a record of all the guff at the time and then, when the proveable facts emerged, I ignored the hype. I sent the McLaren letter, ostensibly from Whitmarsh, to a lawyer friend of mine and she was full of praise for it. Written by lawyers she believed (knew she said) and the 'classic of its kind' was her quote. As she said apart from the 'redacted' bit (about brakes everyone says) it destroyed the FIA's (or rather the person whose prosecution it was) case.
She reckoned that there would be 'back door' deals, and by that she didn't mean having thermometers suffed up the back door, done before the end.
There's lots on the internet about that bloke, the one who was paid everything that he was worth by the FIA, and the way he ran things. There was the other German holocaust that he ignored, the one that nearly took out Verstappen.
The whole Stepneygate thing stank and the only one to come out of it with any credibility was Hamilton. He behaved as I hope I would have done.
Derek Smith said:
RichB said:
Whether or not one agrees with your point of view one always gets a well reasoned and articulated argument from you Derek.
Thanks (I think).Being a big McLaren fan, then and now, I kept a record of all the guff at the time and then, when the proveable facts emerged, I ignored the hype. I sent the McLaren letter, ostensibly from Whitmarsh, to a lawyer friend of mine and she was full of praise for it. Written by lawyers she believed (knew she said) and the 'classic of its kind' was her quote. As she said apart from the 'redacted' bit (about brakes everyone says) it destroyed the FIA's (or rather the person whose prosecution it was) case.
She reckoned that there would be 'back door' deals, and by that she didn't mean having thermometers suffed up the back door, done before the end.
There's lots on the internet about that bloke, the one who was paid everything that he was worth by the FIA, and the way he ran things. There was the other German holocaust that he ignored, the one that nearly took out Verstappen.
The whole Stepneygate thing stank and the only one to come out of it with any credibility was Hamilton. He behaved as I hope I would have done.
As for Hamilton's credibility, as we all know he proved to be a cheat and a liar. Unless that wasn't his fault either?
REALIST123 said:
The whole thing certainly stank, but I very much doubt you know any more than anyone else on here about the truth, Derek, though I don't see how, as a self confessed big McLaren fan you could have any other belief.
My experience is that whilst fans tend to look at facts related to their favourite with rose coloured spectacles, those who seemingly hate drivers or teams ignore facts completely.I did a lot of research on the subject and I do feel that there are many on here whom I know more than.
Some things are clear and unequivocal: Stepney and Coughlan colluded for their own reasons. Neither acted for any purpose other than self interest. To suggest that either wanted to help McLaren is farcical.
Many, especially those who did a lot of research on the subject, came to the conclusion that the FIA's own Voldamort did not act in the best interests of justice.
I'm no blue-eyed boy, that was knocked out of me with regards to team managers some years ago, but those who suggest RD was the villian in this piece show that there are some on these forums who know considerably less than me on the subject of Stepneygate.
Crafty_ said:
Sofoklis said:
McLaren making their own engine, are you having a laugh? Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault, so far the only manufacturers who actually have a full dyno running 2014 engine on the test bench. It has taken them 2 years just to get to this stage. Where are McLaren going to suddenly find this so called "own" engine from? The relationship they have with Mercedes is a winning combination and both companies benefit from it so I see no reason why they should change. Craig Pollocks "PURE" engine was the only other option but that fell flat on its face a few months ago.
The 2014 grid will be powered by 3 engines unless the FIA make last minute provisions to allow lesser teams to use a reduced power V8 like they did when engine regulations changed from V10s to V8s.
McLaren would be able to get an engine built for 2014, if not in house by a contractor easily enough imho. They'd even be able to buy the resources they'd need.The 2014 grid will be powered by 3 engines unless the FIA make last minute provisions to allow lesser teams to use a reduced power V8 like they did when engine regulations changed from V10s to V8s.
At one time Merc thought they were going to buy McLaren, they owned quite alot of shares in the business (40% IIRC), I don't know what exactly caused the cooling off (maybe the road car plans) but Merc got cold feet and McLaren (or rather its investors) bought back the Merc shares.. this was all a while before Merc bought Brawn.
So, the relationship cooled and at the time the thinking was McLaren wanted to build their own engines, who knows maybe they've got an operation running behind the scenes ? or a contract with a manufacturer already ? we don't know.
Not saying they are definitely going to move away from merc, but if you look at it from Mercedes point of view why give your engine to a competitor thats in front of you ?
That is what I know of the automotive side and I stand to be corrected if I am wrong. That aside, the Mercedes engine partnership in F1 is different though. It is a successful and much more harmonious partnership and both companies have benefited from each others expertise.
You could be right about McLaren working with another F1 engine manufacturer but I still doubt it. McLaren themselves building their own unit in-house is definitely a no go. Not a chance in hell. Something would have been leaked by now. McLaren do not have a £100 million budget to develop an engine when they can buy one from the experts for £10million a year. Its a no brainer. I also believe its far too late for any other manufacture outside Ferrari, Renault and Mercedes to think about producing something this late for 2014.
From a Mercedes point of view, I believe that they are actually in a WIN WIN situation if they continue to supply McLaren with Engine and KERS. Yes they run the risk of losing to a customer team but if McLaren win so do Mercedes with the Mercedes power. From a marketing point of view they cannot go wrong. Formula one is one big marketing showcase is it not?
Latest words I've heard from LH was on R5Live this afternoon. He was very cagey and measured, playing his cards close to his chest and trying hard not to give anything away. What he didn't say with his answers indicates the deal is not done. I read that as to mean there IS a possibility that he will not be at McLaren next season. That could be of benefit to LH, Mclaren and F1 itself. I for one would like to see an end to the LH-McL will-he wont-he scenario.
His few TV screen appearances last weekend at Spa Fr. saw a preoccupied, evasive LH with "The hump". That 'confidential' stuff he posted in open media was possibly a reliable sign that he is burning his bridges already and knows deep down he is on his way. There again, if all this is simply only a ploy to extract even more money for himself and all his hangers on 'advisers', then they could all come unstuck. If it is all such a cynical ploy for greed when money is tight for most of us and even in F1 now, then I for one hope they do come unstuck.
Regarding the exposure of that confidential stuff, he did say it would not happen again. Maybe that comment was reassurance not just for Mclaren management but, others. Who knows, wait and see what transpires. If he does stay with McLaren after all ... this stuff ... I do not expect much success for him in the near future. I think he has queered his pitch far too much.
His few TV screen appearances last weekend at Spa Fr. saw a preoccupied, evasive LH with "The hump". That 'confidential' stuff he posted in open media was possibly a reliable sign that he is burning his bridges already and knows deep down he is on his way. There again, if all this is simply only a ploy to extract even more money for himself and all his hangers on 'advisers', then they could all come unstuck. If it is all such a cynical ploy for greed when money is tight for most of us and even in F1 now, then I for one hope they do come unstuck.
Regarding the exposure of that confidential stuff, he did say it would not happen again. Maybe that comment was reassurance not just for Mclaren management but, others. Who knows, wait and see what transpires. If he does stay with McLaren after all ... this stuff ... I do not expect much success for him in the near future. I think he has queered his pitch far too much.
Edited by MGJohn on Friday 7th September 00:35
As a McLaren and Lewis fan, I'm a bit sad if this turns out to be true, but if I'm honest, I think this could very well happen.
I don't see money being the reason though.
I think the problem is more with the arrival of Jenson and the departure of Ron Dennis, Lewis has effectively lost his way with the team. Jenson has his 'bubble' and is well liked within the team. True, that's also in part Lewis's doing - but if this is in fact true, it's very hard to change. Perhaps better to leave the team and start fresh, build new relationships - something that is very hard to achieve if you've been with the same team since 13.
McLaren might be one of the best teams to be, ever, but if you don't get on well wit the team - or lack the support you feel your team-mate is getting, going to a different, even less successful team might be better.
It's not all about the money - it's about finding a comfortable working environment too.
I don't see money being the reason though.
I think the problem is more with the arrival of Jenson and the departure of Ron Dennis, Lewis has effectively lost his way with the team. Jenson has his 'bubble' and is well liked within the team. True, that's also in part Lewis's doing - but if this is in fact true, it's very hard to change. Perhaps better to leave the team and start fresh, build new relationships - something that is very hard to achieve if you've been with the same team since 13.
McLaren might be one of the best teams to be, ever, but if you don't get on well wit the team - or lack the support you feel your team-mate is getting, going to a different, even less successful team might be better.
It's not all about the money - it's about finding a comfortable working environment too.
Mmm, interesting responses from Lewis in the paddock interviews this morning... when asked about signing for Merc, he stumbled with a half "Yeah...", then corrected himself and said he hasn't signed anything and was only aware of talking to McL. When Ted then asked about the changes to the regs / cars for next yr and whether that would influence his decision, he said no, none of the technical changes will influence his decision and "there's very little to think about".
That last comment could back up what I was thinking earlier, that he's taking a narrow view on things and is only chasing the biggest offer, rather than looking at which team can respond to 2013 change / offer the best package under the new regs.
Just my reading of his responses, you understand. Did anyone else see this? What were your thoughts?
That last comment could back up what I was thinking earlier, that he's taking a narrow view on things and is only chasing the biggest offer, rather than looking at which team can respond to 2013 change / offer the best package under the new regs.
Just my reading of his responses, you understand. Did anyone else see this? What were your thoughts?
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