Pirelli tyres

[Eric Mc]

oyster said:

Crafty_ said:

owner of the dominant team for the last 2 years only wins 1 out of the first 5 races and his cars often appear to be off the pace.

No agenda there then.

I wish all this p*ssing and moaning about the tyres would stop.
Red Bulls problem (and the same goes for other "top" teams) is nothing to do with tyres, its the fact that EBD was banned and without it their aero is not hugely better better than anyone elses. If we still had EBD you'd see the usual suspects up front.

In any case I don't see what the problem with F1 is. I know its unusual but we actually get to see some racing and *gasp* overtaking. It seems some people want to go back to the processional races of 10 years ago.

Can you tell me what 'racing' you've witnessed this season so far?

Last weekend I watched one of the raciest drivers out there (LH) have to tip-toe round to make sure his tyres didn't fall off a cliff.

And he still managed to climb from 24th to 8th.

Not bad for a guy who was "struggling".

It's part of the curent game - get on with it.

[Eric Mc]

realjv said:

Just like last year it will all settle down into a much more stable order as the season progresses. With such limited winter testing the teams are still learning the tyre characteristics and will adjust their simulations and setups to get the best compromise.

Absolutely.

So next year and for each and every year, a new "wobbly" should get thrown into the mix by the regulators.

As I keep saying, teams have such vast resources available to them, they learn and understand how to make the cars perform well to any rule changes very quickly. They are very clever chaps.

They need to be kept off balance to stop the sport degenerating into a processional farce - as it had done for far too long.

And don't say that such tactics are somehow artificial. ALL rules in motor racing (and to some exctent, all sport) are "artificial". It's just that motor sport has a lot more rules due to the highly technical nature of the activity.

[oyster]

zac510 said:

I saw him go from 24th to 8th and beat his teammate in a hugely underrated drive.

It was a great drive. But he didn't race his way to 8th. He nursed his way to 8th.

[Scuffers]

oyster said:

zac510 said:

I saw him go from 24th to 8th and beat his teammate in a hugely underrated drive.

It was a great drive. But he didn't race his way to 8th. He nursed his way to 8th.

exactly.

what would he have done if he could have pushed for every lap?

(and yes, I appreciate others would have been able to too)

Yes, the result might well have been the same, but the spectacle would have been something to see...

[Munter]

Scuffers said:

exactly.

what would he have done if he could have pushed for every lap?

(and yes, I appreciate others would have been able to too)

Yes, the result might well have been the same, but the spectacle would have been something to see...

...something less interesting.

[Rude-boy]

Don’t worry Eric.

We have one of the best and most open F1 seasons in history before us and there are still a bunch of malcontents moaning about it. I am sure that they would rather that we went back to the ‘good old days’ when you genuinely could watch Qualifying on Saturday and the results would read the same by 6pm on Sunday, bar the odd retirement.

I really don’t get all this ‘it’s a lottery,’ ‘there is no racing,’ and ‘it’s all artificial’ BS. Life is a lottery and you just have to plan for it as best you can with the hand you have to play, at least everyone has access to the same tyres, that some of the top drivers and teams appear to be doing a piss poor job of dealing with them is not a tyre problem, it’s their problem. There has been loads of racing going on if you were watching the race and not getting wound up that your pet team or driver can’t get their stuff together. DRS and KERS have contributed to this very much and we have seen just how much better the racing is when you don’t have 14 cars stuck behind one guy who is 2 seconds a lap off the pace but can block most of the lap and is quick enough in the one or two passing places. As for artificial – give me a break the whole sport is artificial unless you can show me the bloke born with 4 wheels, an engine and who runs on petrol.

I will say it again – this is a fantastic season and is shaping up to be one of the best ever. If you are unhappy at what you are seeing on your TV then I can only assume that you are not a motorsport or even an F1 fan but a team/driver supporter and that it can’t be your team/driver at the top and if they are then stop your bhing.

At the end of the day though we get a season like this every 15-20 years or so and then it goes back to the norm so the supporters can go back to their little Worlds happy as larry and us dyed in the wool motorsports fans can go back to having an interest in F1 and getting our kicks from other areas of the sport where you can’t be certain that one of 3 drivers will win 3 weeks before the race.

[hairykrishna]

I realise the tyres are supposed to be a 'unknown' but for me it seems to have gone a little bit too far with the need to preserve them. Last race underlined it for me - Kimi essentially had one chance at a pass then he was buggered for the rest of the race.

[Adrian W]

Rude-boy said:

lots of stuff

Maybe they should change the rules so all of the cars are identical but keep these useless tyres.

Think of the cost savings, they could feed several third world countries,

Hang on.......that was A1GP and that didn't last long.

[Eric Mc]

Are you too young to remember the days when preserving many aspects of the car was an integral part of F1?

Being a successful grand prix driver was as much to do with that as it was to do with having the ability to plant one's foot to the floor a drive flat out 100% of the time.

Did it make Fangio or Clark poorer drivers than Schumacher or Villeneuve?

[Munter]

Adrian W said:

Maybe they should change the rules so all of the cars are identical but keep these useless tyres.

Think of the cost savings, they could feed several third world countries,

Hang on.......that was A1GP and that didn't last long.

Which of the points you raise are related to something he posed about?

[Eric Mc]

Adrian W said:

Rude-boy said:

lots of stuff

Maybe they should change the rules so all of the cars are identical but keep these useless tyres.

Think of the cost savings, they could feed several third world countries,

Hang on.......that was A1GP and that didn't last long.

One of the great things about this year is that the variations in tyre wear are precisely showing us differences in behaviour of the various chassis and driver combinations. I am finding the whole thing absolutely enthralling.

[Rude-boy]

hairykrishna said:

I realise the tyres are supposed to be a 'unknown' but for me it seems to have gone a little bit too far with the need to preserve them. Last race underlined it for me - Kimi essentially had one chance at a pass then he was buggered for the rest of the race.

On the other hand if he had put white walls on at his first stop he'd have likely been 10-15 seconds up the road in the lead at the end of the race.

[Adrian W]

Munter said:

Adrian W said:

Maybe they should change the rules so all of the cars are identical but keep these useless tyres.

Think of the cost savings, they could feed several third world countries,

Hang on.......that was A1GP and that didn't last long.

Which of the points you raise are related to something he posed about?

The tyes, what is the point of developing a car whose limits of performance cannot be explored due to no testing rules and tyres that self destruct when pushed. It isn't racing flat out to the line, lets hope that a driver isn't killed through over confidence in his tyres or sliding off on large bits of tyre that have fallen off and are laying on the track.

I wonder if they will get the embarrasing situation at Monaco agian where the GP2 cars are faster than the F1's

[Rude-boy]

Adrian W said:

The tyes, what is the point of developing a car whose limits of performance cannot be explored due to no testing rules and tyres that self destruct when pushed. It isn't racing flat out to the line, lets hope that a driver isn't killed through over confidence in his tyres or sliding off on large bits of tyre that have fallen off and are laying on the track.

Look I will run with the fact that there are two sides to every story but please stop posting balderdash like that. Marbles have been a problem in F1 for 20+ years (ask Mr Hill or Mr Mansell about it) and as for over confidence...

Seriously you are doing yourself and your argument no favours posting utter tripe like that!

Adrian W said:

I wonder if they will get the embarrasing situation at Monaco agian where the GP2 cars are faster than the F1's

Who knows, everyone who knows the sport though knows that Monaco is not an F1 track it is a pure sponsors holiday with the cars there to put on a show for them. I realise that Monaco is a 'big' win but it's not down to any racing reason, pure braging rights at the bar and sponsor fodder.

[Adrian W]

Lets get to the end of the season and see who's talking what!

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/4/1193...

[Rude-boy]

Bedazzled said:

Try telling that to Lewis (or Senna in his day) the top drivers want to win there more than anywhere else and it's got precious little to do with bragging rights. It's a marvellous F1 track and a supreme challenge for the drivers. For me at least, watching the pole lap next weekend will be an absolute pleasure, one of the highlights of the season. I love watching them race at Monaco regardless of how little overtaking there is. Sadly with this year's tyres they will only be cruising at 80% for most of the race.

I hear what you say and perhaps I will conceed that I got a little carried away there

That said I honestly think that it is as much, if not more so due to its status, a joke as Valencia. F1 cars out grew the place over 30 years ago now and it is purely down to non racing factors that it still exists.

Yes you have to be 100% or you'll take a wheel off or worse but it just leaves me cold to see the sport pitch up and bend over for the money there when there are other tracks which are equally outdated in F1 terms but which we would all give a left bk to see the cars race on. The proper N'ring for a start...

[Rude-boy]

Adrian W said:

Lets get to the end of the season and see who's talking what!

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/4/1193...

Interesting as going back through the memeory banks I can't say that it appears any worse to me than it has been since the '80's. Some races are worse than others but that again has aways been the case.

I would suggest that if the girls weren't so busy complaining that they can't do a decent job with the tyres when they have budgets multiples the size of Sauber and Williams then the linked story wouldn't exist.

[entropy]

Pirelli need a rethink on tyre construction. This year's tyres are too extreme: too peaky and inconsistent to the point that even Pastor Maldonado can jump on the podium

Last year was damn good. We had a good balance of different type of races - even the ones where not much happened I was engrossed to some extent.

[Scuffers]

Rude-boy said:

Interesting as going back through the memeory banks I can't say that it appears any worse to me than it has been since the '80's. Some races are worse than others but that again has aways been the case.

I would suggest that if the girls weren't so busy complaining that they can't do a decent job with the tyres when they have budgets multiples the size of Sauber and Williams then the linked story wouldn't exist.

are you blind?

seriously, by lap 15, the cct was covered in 'marbles', kind of reminded me of what Silverstone looked like after a 24H race (with 80+cars)

yes, there is always going to be some, but never this much, and the point is, it makes going off line very hazardous, and thus discourages people using odd lines to make passes etc.

Can't believe the general guff posted in this thread, particularly the people going on abut Moss and Fangio days, like there is any relevance at all, also, going on about wet's is also meaningless.

As said, we are seriously at risk that the GP2 cars will be faster than some of the F1 grid this weekend, and just how pathetic will that look?

[zac510]

Kimi speaks out against scuffers and rdjohn:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99647