The 2016 Rallying thread (WRC, ERC, RX, etc)
Discussion
Classic rallying is enjoying the exact same boom that historic motorsport has done in the past 10 years.
The people that watched in the 70's and 80' are now those who are succesful and want to do their rallying in Escorts and other popular cars form their time watching on tv.
Even single venue events are still largely populated by Escorts, either insanse 100k ones or fairly basic ones similar to what was used decades ago.
The Sunbeams, Avengers, Chevettes, Asconas have been replaced by 205's, the odd BMW, and odds and ends.
You still get pot hunters turning up in WRC cars,l but thats always happened.
The issue with promotion as I see it is that Red Bull allegedly promote the series and their main cars have won the last 300 rallies or so it seems so it is a token job for them, they do not need as self interest does more promotion than the events.
Theya re popular live with locals but it's only ever been popular to the mass public for short times in the 70's the GpB arena and the late 90's Burns/McRae era.
Other than that it is where WEC was for decades, lost.
The people that watched in the 70's and 80' are now those who are succesful and want to do their rallying in Escorts and other popular cars form their time watching on tv.
Even single venue events are still largely populated by Escorts, either insanse 100k ones or fairly basic ones similar to what was used decades ago.
The Sunbeams, Avengers, Chevettes, Asconas have been replaced by 205's, the odd BMW, and odds and ends.
You still get pot hunters turning up in WRC cars,l but thats always happened.
The issue with promotion as I see it is that Red Bull allegedly promote the series and their main cars have won the last 300 rallies or so it seems so it is a token job for them, they do not need as self interest does more promotion than the events.
Theya re popular live with locals but it's only ever been popular to the mass public for short times in the 70's the GpB arena and the late 90's Burns/McRae era.
Other than that it is where WEC was for decades, lost.
Allyc85 said:
In happier news Loeb won his very first stage on the Dakar today. Shouldn't be surprised though really!
The guy's a monster. Everyone says the Dakar is a different kettle of fish and it seems newcomers aren't expected to do amazingly. Loeb smashed it, the gap from him to second is almost the same as the gap from second to seventh if I'm reading the results right. I'd be surprised if he could go the distance and win the thing but I'm betting he'll be top three.
What a guy.
velocemitch said:
I think it's brilliant that HERO have got the RAC on board, but it won't half confuse the public.
The various formats of Historic Road Rallying ( and Targa for that matter) seem to be the one area where Rallying is getting more and more popular. They are doing something right that's for sure.
I don't think the general public care anymore!The various formats of Historic Road Rallying ( and Targa for that matter) seem to be the one area where Rallying is getting more and more popular. They are doing something right that's for sure.
The "something right" is putting on value for money fun events that don't need you to spend £1,000 on suit/HANS/helmet before you've even turned a wheel.
I wonder if Loeb and Hirvonen doing Dakar will encourage more stage rally drivers to have a go at offroad events in the UK - they seem to be much better value and aren't presently subject to as many safety restrictions in terms of personal gear and car gear.
It's good to be able to discuss rallying without the thread descending into points-scoring and insults like another forum I could mention!
leglessAlex said:
Allyc85 said:
In happier news Loeb won his very first stage on the Dakar today. Shouldn't be surprised though really!
The guy's a monster. Everyone says the Dakar is a different kettle of fish and it seems newcomers aren't expected to do amazingly. Loeb smashed it, the gap from him to second is almost the same as the gap from second to seventh if I'm reading the results right. I'd be surprised if he could go the distance and win the thing but I'm betting he'll be top three.
What a guy.
Loeb is a living legend already (I don't think it matters whether you think he was unchallenged in WRC or his winning years have "ruined" WRC etc. the stats are undeniable).
9 WRC championships on the trot (and wasn't the C4 undefeated on tarmac, mostly loeb?)
2nd overall in Le Mans
Race wins in a McLaren GT car
Race wins in WTCC (okay that car was pretty unchallenged but still)
Win and record at Pikes Peak (after it was tarmac'd and with a big manufacturer backing to be fair, still takes balls and is crazy to watch)
Wins in rallycross
Embarrassed the yanks at the X-games (hilarious to watch)
and the FIA had the cheek to say he didn't have enough experience to test F1... even though in a winter test in a Red Bull RB4 (before they were dominating) he set 8th fastest out of 17 drivers and was only 2 tenths off a certain Robert Kubica.
...and now he could win the Dakar on his first attempt, and has at least 2 stage wins.
I genuinely think he's got to be top 3 drivers active today, if not the best? Not many others that are so multi-disciplinary and successful as well!
9 WRC championships on the trot (and wasn't the C4 undefeated on tarmac, mostly loeb?)
2nd overall in Le Mans
Race wins in a McLaren GT car
Race wins in WTCC (okay that car was pretty unchallenged but still)
Win and record at Pikes Peak (after it was tarmac'd and with a big manufacturer backing to be fair, still takes balls and is crazy to watch)
Wins in rallycross
Embarrassed the yanks at the X-games (hilarious to watch)
and the FIA had the cheek to say he didn't have enough experience to test F1... even though in a winter test in a Red Bull RB4 (before they were dominating) he set 8th fastest out of 17 drivers and was only 2 tenths off a certain Robert Kubica.
...and now he could win the Dakar on his first attempt, and has at least 2 stage wins.
I genuinely think he's got to be top 3 drivers active today, if not the best? Not many others that are so multi-disciplinary and successful as well!
Blayney said:
Loeb is a living legend already (I don't think it matters whether you think he was unchallenged in WRC or his winning years have "ruined" WRC etc. the stats are undeniable).
9 WRC championships on the trot (and wasn't the C4 undefeated on tarmac, mostly loeb?)
2nd overall in Le Mans
Race wins in a McLaren GT car
Race wins in WTCC (okay that car was pretty unchallenged but still)
Win and record at Pikes Peak (after it was tarmac'd and with a big manufacturer backing to be fair, still takes balls and is crazy to watch)
Wins in rallycross
Embarrassed the yanks at the X-games (hilarious to watch)
and the FIA had the cheek to say he didn't have enough experience to test F1... even though in a winter test in a Red Bull RB4 (before they were dominating) he set 8th fastest out of 17 drivers and was only 2 tenths off a certain Robert Kubica.
...and now he could win the Dakar on his first attempt, and has at least 2 stage wins.
I genuinely think he's got to be top 3 drivers active today, if not the best? Not many others that are so multi-disciplinary and successful as well!
And breathe ..... 9 WRC championships on the trot (and wasn't the C4 undefeated on tarmac, mostly loeb?)
2nd overall in Le Mans
Race wins in a McLaren GT car
Race wins in WTCC (okay that car was pretty unchallenged but still)
Win and record at Pikes Peak (after it was tarmac'd and with a big manufacturer backing to be fair, still takes balls and is crazy to watch)
Wins in rallycross
Embarrassed the yanks at the X-games (hilarious to watch)
and the FIA had the cheek to say he didn't have enough experience to test F1... even though in a winter test in a Red Bull RB4 (before they were dominating) he set 8th fastest out of 17 drivers and was only 2 tenths off a certain Robert Kubica.
...and now he could win the Dakar on his first attempt, and has at least 2 stage wins.
I genuinely think he's got to be top 3 drivers active today, if not the best? Not many others that are so multi-disciplinary and successful as well!
But you're right, it's a mightily impressive CV, yet still the WRC goes largely unnoticed by the vast majority.
Good to hear the various UK "classic" events are looking healthier, but sorry, I care not one jot, I watched Group 4 Escorts 35 years ago, great though they were, I'd rather be watching something more modern.
Truth be known, I'm happy to admit I'm a fair weather bobblehatter these days, I much prefer to make a holiday out of WRC spectating in warmer/sunnier climates.
Personally I wish there was a ETRC European Tarmac Rally Championship, 8-10 rounds taking in The Monte (circa Mid 80's), The Circuit of Ireland (ditto), Tour de Corse, San Remo (all Tarmac), Costa Brava, Madeira Wine Rally, Rally Islas Canarias etc.
1600cc WRC cars with larger (much larger) restrictors to allow 450hp along with 2017 WRC cars, 991 GT3 RSR's, GT2 458's, GT3 Hurracans, Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3's and R8 V10 LMS cars. Now that's something I'd pay good money to watch !
A Peugeot stage win again and a Peugeot top three. Seems to be a hell of a car they have, but I suppose the all star driver line up helps
Loeb still ahead by four and a half minuets or so. With Al-Attiyah over eleven minuets back in the overall I reckon it's between Peterhansel and Loeb now. Of course it's early days and anything can happen but with the standard of driving involved, eleven minuets is a lot to make up.
Loeb still ahead by four and a half minuets or so. With Al-Attiyah over eleven minuets back in the overall I reckon it's between Peterhansel and Loeb now. Of course it's early days and anything can happen but with the standard of driving involved, eleven minuets is a lot to make up.
Is anyone really surprised? Did the FiA really want Sportscars on the stages? Did the current WRC Manufacturers want these cars taking any of the interest away from their ‘family hatchbacks’?
The FiA put as many hurdles in front of potential entries to make many decide not to bother. A great shame.
The FiA put as many hurdles in front of potential entries to make many decide not to bother. A great shame.
Whilst historic racing generally has tried to keep cars in there original configurations. The same can not be said for historic rallying where the use of sequential gearboxes, "modern" engines etc. is widespread.
Don't get me wrong I love to see the old escorts etc going through the forests, but please not let us pretend that they are just the same as when they first rallied.
Don't get me wrong I love to see the old escorts etc going through the forests, but please not let us pretend that they are just the same as when they first rallied.
Drumroll said:
Whilst historic racing generally has tried to keep cars in there original configurations. The same can not be said for historic rallying where is widespread.
Are you confusing historic events with older cars on open events, the historic regs do not permit the use of sequential gearboxes, "modern" engines etc. The RAC club did offer a modified class last year but it had one or two entrants at best and I don't believe will run this year. The HRCR don't offer anything other than period/homologated specAll the above is UK, not Ireland
Drumroll said:
Whilst historic racing generally has tried to keep cars in there original configurations. The same can not be said for historic rallying where the use of sequential gearboxes, "modern" engines etc. is widespread.
Don't get me wrong I love to see the old escorts etc going through the forests, but please not let us pretend that they are just the same as when they first rallied.
Depending on the event the cars under the RAC Historic class are (i think) original spec per their registration year. Jimmy McRae's Firenza & Steve Perez' Stratos are original cars.Don't get me wrong I love to see the old escorts etc going through the forests, but please not let us pretend that they are just the same as when they first rallied.
There are then the other escorts running millington engines and tricker equipment than some of the wrc cars they race
Proper historic rallying is quite tightly controlled to maintain only period modifications proved to be used in rallying. It's split into four age categories, loosely based upon the Ford Escort. Ie pre Escort, pre mk2, and post Mk2.
You are confusing the situation with modern rallies where they are still regularly using Escorts with different Engines and a host of other modifications. Those Cars are very fast in some cases easily beating many of the the modern cars. It does mean that the Escort has been a front line winning car in UK rallying in both stage and road (if not WRC ) for 45 years. Pretty unique achievement for any competition car.
Even some of the historic spec cars are setting top ten times and are being driven with as much commitment and skill as they were in period. They are probably faster too, just like the historic race cars are.
You are confusing the situation with modern rallies where they are still regularly using Escorts with different Engines and a host of other modifications. Those Cars are very fast in some cases easily beating many of the the modern cars. It does mean that the Escort has been a front line winning car in UK rallying in both stage and road (if not WRC ) for 45 years. Pretty unique achievement for any competition car.
Even some of the historic spec cars are setting top ten times and are being driven with as much commitment and skill as they were in period. They are probably faster too, just like the historic race cars are.
Loeb lost eight mins to Peterhansel today, and lost the overall lead. He is now twenty seven seconds behind Peterhansel and Sainz is coming up on them both, a bit over five mins behind Loeb.
Loeb had electrical problems similar to those of Despres yesterday apparently, it'll be interesting if it affects anyone else on the Peugeot team.
Loeb had electrical problems similar to those of Despres yesterday apparently, it'll be interesting if it affects anyone else on the Peugeot team.
Slippydiff said:
Blayney said:
Loeb is a living legend already (I don't think it matters whether you think he was unchallenged in WRC or his winning years have "ruined" WRC etc. the stats are undeniable).
9 WRC championships on the trot (and wasn't the C4 undefeated on tarmac, mostly loeb?)
2nd overall in Le Mans
Race wins in a McLaren GT car
Race wins in WTCC (okay that car was pretty unchallenged but still)
Win and record at Pikes Peak (after it was tarmac'd and with a big manufacturer backing to be fair, still takes balls and is crazy to watch)
Wins in rallycross
Embarrassed the yanks at the X-games (hilarious to watch)
and the FIA had the cheek to say he didn't have enough experience to test F1... even though in a winter test in a Red Bull RB4 (before they were dominating) he set 8th fastest out of 17 drivers and was only 2 tenths off a certain Robert Kubica.
...and now he could win the Dakar on his first attempt, and has at least 2 stage wins.
I genuinely think he's got to be top 3 drivers active today, if not the best? Not many others that are so multi-disciplinary and successful as well!
Personally I wish there was a ETRC European Tarmac Rally Championship, 8-10 rounds taking in The Monte (circa Mid 80's), The Circuit of Ireland (ditto), Tour de Corse, San Remo (all Tarmac), Costa Brava, Madeira Wine Rally, Rally Islas Canarias etc.9 WRC championships on the trot (and wasn't the C4 undefeated on tarmac, mostly loeb?)
2nd overall in Le Mans
Race wins in a McLaren GT car
Race wins in WTCC (okay that car was pretty unchallenged but still)
Win and record at Pikes Peak (after it was tarmac'd and with a big manufacturer backing to be fair, still takes balls and is crazy to watch)
Wins in rallycross
Embarrassed the yanks at the X-games (hilarious to watch)
and the FIA had the cheek to say he didn't have enough experience to test F1... even though in a winter test in a Red Bull RB4 (before they were dominating) he set 8th fastest out of 17 drivers and was only 2 tenths off a certain Robert Kubica.
...and now he could win the Dakar on his first attempt, and has at least 2 stage wins.
I genuinely think he's got to be top 3 drivers active today, if not the best? Not many others that are so multi-disciplinary and successful as well!
1600cc WRC cars with larger (much larger) restrictors to allow 450hp along with 2017 WRC cars, 991 GT3 RSR's, GT2 458's, GT3 Hurracans, Aston Martin V12 Vantage GT3's and R8 V10 LMS cars. Now that's something I'd pay good money to watch !
I'd love to see a proper Tarmac series for proper cars.
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