Whats Happened to the BTCC ???
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
F1GTRUeno said:
I think one of the biggest factors is car design.
The rep cars back in the day somehow leant themselves very well to the Supertouring spoilers, wheels, body addons and so on.
A current Focus/Civic and so on just looks a bit frumpy and the racing effort is pretty rubbish too.
The A4/Avensis/3er are okay though the regs means they'll never be as extreme as the later Supertouring cars either.
I agree. 'Firebreathing hatchbacks' just don't quite cut it.The rep cars back in the day somehow leant themselves very well to the Supertouring spoilers, wheels, body addons and so on.
A current Focus/Civic and so on just looks a bit frumpy and the racing effort is pretty rubbish too.
The A4/Avensis/3er are okay though the regs means they'll never be as extreme as the later Supertouring cars either.
Just like in rallying, saloons simply look better.
Just to add to this BTCC lap times around Brands Indy look very healthy bearing in mind that the circuit layout changed a couple of years ago which added approximately 2 seconds to a lap time.
lap times at Brands Indy:
BTCCC: Matt Neal Honda 0:48.21 (Current Cars and Current track layout)
British Superbikes: Gregorio Lavilla 0:45.45
GT: Mosler GT 0:45.81
DTM lap approximately 42 to 43 seconds per lap.
Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg)
1. Caterham R500 0:51.55 135 '08 263 / 506
2. Noble M400 0:52.60 133 '05 425 / 960
3. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 0:54.20 129 '03 381 / 1360
4. BMW M3 CSL 0:54.75 127 '03 360 / 1385
5. Lamborghini Gallardo 0:55.70 125 '03 500 / 1613
6. Lotus Esprit Sport 350 0:56.50 123 '99 354 / 1324
7. Aston Martin DB9 0:56.60 123 '04 450 / 1710
8. Lotus Elise 111R 0:57.40 121 '04 192 / 896
9. Porsche Cayman 2.7 0:58.04 120 '06 245 / 1300
10. MG Xpower SV-R 0:58.40 119 '05 385 / 1580
11. Mercedes SLK 350 0:59.00 118 '04 272 / 1488
12. Renault Clio 182 1:00.00 116 '05 182 / 1090
13. Mazda MX-5 1.8 MZR 1:02.05 112 '05 126 / 1100
lap times at Brands Indy:
BTCCC: Matt Neal Honda 0:48.21 (Current Cars and Current track layout)
British Superbikes: Gregorio Lavilla 0:45.45
GT: Mosler GT 0:45.81
DTM lap approximately 42 to 43 seconds per lap.
Pos Make / Model Time Speed (km/h) Year Power (hp) / Weight (kg)
1. Caterham R500 0:51.55 135 '08 263 / 506
2. Noble M400 0:52.60 133 '05 425 / 960
3. Porsche 911 GT3 RS 0:54.20 129 '03 381 / 1360
4. BMW M3 CSL 0:54.75 127 '03 360 / 1385
5. Lamborghini Gallardo 0:55.70 125 '03 500 / 1613
6. Lotus Esprit Sport 350 0:56.50 123 '99 354 / 1324
7. Aston Martin DB9 0:56.60 123 '04 450 / 1710
8. Lotus Elise 111R 0:57.40 121 '04 192 / 896
9. Porsche Cayman 2.7 0:58.04 120 '06 245 / 1300
10. MG Xpower SV-R 0:58.40 119 '05 385 / 1580
11. Mercedes SLK 350 0:59.00 118 '04 272 / 1488
12. Renault Clio 182 1:00.00 116 '05 182 / 1090
13. Mazda MX-5 1.8 MZR 1:02.05 112 '05 126 / 1100
I can't think of many other championships that would attract such a big crowd on a freezing
day, when it would be tempting to stay at home and watch it all on Live TV.
Yes, it is not for the purist, but the NGTC rules have brought down the costs and made it possible for teams such as Rob Austin Racing, Speedworks and Welch to compete against the big boys.
It is heartening to see most of the newcomers (Tordoff, Cole, Goff this year) and Aron Smith and Frank Wrathall last year being true up and coming young talents that have won in the junior formulae. Good to see sponsors coming back into the paddock after a few years of relying on gentleman driver budgets. Ebay, Tesco, Yuasa, Wix, Pirtek all properly proomoting their investments.
32 cars, live TV, big crowds, factory backed teams, great media profile, decent looking cars, close racing.
I like 'What's happened to the BTCC'
day, when it would be tempting to stay at home and watch it all on Live TV.
Yes, it is not for the purist, but the NGTC rules have brought down the costs and made it possible for teams such as Rob Austin Racing, Speedworks and Welch to compete against the big boys.
It is heartening to see most of the newcomers (Tordoff, Cole, Goff this year) and Aron Smith and Frank Wrathall last year being true up and coming young talents that have won in the junior formulae. Good to see sponsors coming back into the paddock after a few years of relying on gentleman driver budgets. Ebay, Tesco, Yuasa, Wix, Pirtek all properly proomoting their investments.
32 cars, live TV, big crowds, factory backed teams, great media profile, decent looking cars, close racing.
I like 'What's happened to the BTCC'
It is so boring to listen to you, boring old sods going on about the "old days".
You will have nothing to complain about when motor racing is regulated and legislated out. Or when they all run silent electric motors. You'll be dead by then to care. Ooh, they are all 4-pots. Ooh, they are all turbos. What is this, some sort of weird willy waving contest? Bloody hell. Go and support them whilst you still can.
I took a mate who's a very casual F1 fan (never been to any race before), to Brands on Saturday.
As we got to the circuit, Practise session for the BTCC was going on. And you know what, every time the BMWs came past us, he was giggling like a girl hearing the loud bangs during the gear changes. He still hadn't got used to the sound late in the evening. He was still giggling at the end. He had the biggest smile on his face I had seen in ages. I had a huge smile too, listening/seeing the BTCC cars and the others.
You can sit at home complaining, it just means more of us get to watch it live at a much lesser cost. Unlike the scrum to get to/watch an F1 race live. I have booked race day tickets for the Thruxton round and shall be going to WEC @ Silverstone too.
At the end of the day, did I feel I got my money's worth. You bet I did.
You will have nothing to complain about when motor racing is regulated and legislated out. Or when they all run silent electric motors. You'll be dead by then to care. Ooh, they are all 4-pots. Ooh, they are all turbos. What is this, some sort of weird willy waving contest? Bloody hell. Go and support them whilst you still can.
I took a mate who's a very casual F1 fan (never been to any race before), to Brands on Saturday.
As we got to the circuit, Practise session for the BTCC was going on. And you know what, every time the BMWs came past us, he was giggling like a girl hearing the loud bangs during the gear changes. He still hadn't got used to the sound late in the evening. He was still giggling at the end. He had the biggest smile on his face I had seen in ages. I had a huge smile too, listening/seeing the BTCC cars and the others.
You can sit at home complaining, it just means more of us get to watch it live at a much lesser cost. Unlike the scrum to get to/watch an F1 race live. I have booked race day tickets for the Thruxton round and shall be going to WEC @ Silverstone too.
At the end of the day, did I feel I got my money's worth. You bet I did.
Dr Z said:
It is so boring to listen to you, boring old sods going on about the "old days".
You will have nothing to complain about when motor racing is regulated and legislated out. Or when they all run silent electric motors. You'll be dead by then to care. Ooh, they are all 4-pots. Ooh, they are all turbos. What is this, some sort of weird willy waving contest? Bloody hell. Go and support them whilst you still can.
I took a mate who's a very casual F1 fan (never been to any race before), to Brands on Saturday.
As we got to the circuit, Practise session for the BTCC was going on. And you know what, every time the BMWs came past us, he was giggling like a girl hearing the loud bangs during the gear changes. He still hadn't got used to the sound late in the evening. He was still giggling at the end. He had the biggest smile on his face I had seen in ages. I had a huge smile too, listening/seeing the BTCC cars and the others.
You can sit at home complaining, it just means more of us get to watch it live at a much lesser cost. Unlike the scrum to get to/watch an F1 race live. I have booked race day tickets for the Thruxton round and shall be going to WEC @ Silverstone too.
At the end of the day, did I feel I got my money's worth. You bet I did.
How old are you, just out of interest ?You will have nothing to complain about when motor racing is regulated and legislated out. Or when they all run silent electric motors. You'll be dead by then to care. Ooh, they are all 4-pots. Ooh, they are all turbos. What is this, some sort of weird willy waving contest? Bloody hell. Go and support them whilst you still can.
I took a mate who's a very casual F1 fan (never been to any race before), to Brands on Saturday.
As we got to the circuit, Practise session for the BTCC was going on. And you know what, every time the BMWs came past us, he was giggling like a girl hearing the loud bangs during the gear changes. He still hadn't got used to the sound late in the evening. He was still giggling at the end. He had the biggest smile on his face I had seen in ages. I had a huge smile too, listening/seeing the BTCC cars and the others.
You can sit at home complaining, it just means more of us get to watch it live at a much lesser cost. Unlike the scrum to get to/watch an F1 race live. I have booked race day tickets for the Thruxton round and shall be going to WEC @ Silverstone too.
At the end of the day, did I feel I got my money's worth. You bet I did.
7/11 said:
The BTCC is in rude health (even if the NGTC cars sound like tractors!)
The Clio's are in good shape too.
Buts that is the end of the story.
The support races are in terrible shape.
12 Porsches - for 34 laps races!
13 Formula Fords
14 Ginetta juniors
These are going to be SO boring on any long circuit, such as Snet 300.
A massive turn off and an embarrassment for the series.
Perhaps Alan Gow could focus his attentions on THE WHOLE PACKAGE and not just BTCC.
The fans deserve better.
Due to other commitments, I only took the time to watch ITVs excellent coverage of BTCC races and so had not realised the small grids elsewhere. I suspect that general economic malaise is the real culprit, but do agree that Alan Gow could divert his attention down the field now he seems to have secured success for the main series.The Clio's are in good shape too.
Buts that is the end of the story.
The support races are in terrible shape.
12 Porsches - for 34 laps races!
13 Formula Fords
14 Ginetta juniors
These are going to be SO boring on any long circuit, such as Snet 300.
A massive turn off and an embarrassment for the series.
Perhaps Alan Gow could focus his attentions on THE WHOLE PACKAGE and not just BTCC.
The fans deserve better.
In fairness, the Porsches had some antics throughout their race up front, was decent to watch. The Ginettas were their usual selves, guaranteed action always somewhere in the field.
Formula Ford was the only really disappointing one. I might have been imagining it but I think they actual cut a chunk out the footage on Sunday, the clock seemed to go from 14min to 2min to go, a lot faster than 12mins.
Formula Ford was the only really disappointing one. I might have been imagining it but I think they actual cut a chunk out the footage on Sunday, the clock seemed to go from 14min to 2min to go, a lot faster than 12mins.
rdjohn said:
Due to other commitments, I only took the time to watch ITVs excellent coverage of BTCC races and so had not realised the small grids elsewhere. I suspect that general economic malaise is the real culprit, but do agree that Alan Gow could divert his attention down the field now he seems to have secured success for the main series.
Now that the Clios have gone back to the BARC from SRO, they seem to be having some success with grids, in the final season of that car too. Ginetta's always provide a decent enough race, even if there are only a handful. The problem with Porsches is that there are too many places to race them and it's obviously too expensive. I think I'm right in saying whenever a new model comes out, you have to use them in the Carrera Cup GB for the first year, but can then go and use them in Britcar, GT Cup and so on. That can only explain why there are so few cars this year. Better value for money elsewhere, especially for the gentleman driver. 2011 was the first year of the most recent car and they had a 25 car grid at the opening event.
I think Alan Gow prefers manufacturer series to make his paddock look good and get himself a nice roadcar.
IainW said:
The problem with Porsches is that there are too many places to race them and it's obviously too expensive. I think I'm right in saying whenever a new model comes out, you have to use them in the Carrera Cup GB for the first year, but can then go and use them in Britcar, GT Cup and so on. That can only explain why there are so few cars this year. Better value for money elsewhere, especially for the gentleman driver. 2011 was the first year of the most recent car and they had a 25 car grid at the opening event.
Pretty much correct. The series was a huge success when I was racing in it a few years ago, big grids, awesome hospitality, close racing (if a bit precessional at times), it was great.Porsche changed the car and upped the price which they could have survived if the new car hadn't upped the maintenance so much, upped the cost of hospitality and introduced a few issues like driver weight which put some of us *cough* off. It increased the budget by more than 50% in one go, possibly even more by now, and it narrowed the gap in costs to a lot of other higher regarded (not always justifiably I should point out) series. You've only got to see, 3 or 4 (including me) are in TOCA now, others in British GT and/or FIA GT3 series.
A lot of people jumped ship straight away, and it looks like some other regulars have disappeared over the winter. It's a shame as it had a lot going for it, and although not everyone appreciated the racing, it was challenging and spectacular to watch live.
Having said that it sounds like the 991 Cup Car might have a lot more in common with the road car which could easily drop the costs again. It could easily sort itself out.
Edited by The Wookie on Monday 1st April 16:05
simonigrale said:
Dr Z said:
It is so boring to listen to you, boring old sods going on about the "old days".
You will have nothing to complain about when motor racing is regulated and legislated out. Or when they all run silent electric motors. You'll be dead by then to care. Ooh, they are all 4-pots. Ooh, they are all turbos. What is this, some sort of weird willy waving contest? Bloody hell. Go and support them whilst you still can.
I took a mate who's a very casual F1 fan (never been to any race before), to Brands on Saturday.
As we got to the circuit, Practise session for the BTCC was going on. And you know what, every time the BMWs came past us, he was giggling like a girl hearing the loud bangs during the gear changes. He still hadn't got used to the sound late in the evening. He was still giggling at the end. He had the biggest smile on his face I had seen in ages. I had a huge smile too, listening/seeing the BTCC cars and the others.
You can sit at home complaining, it just means more of us get to watch it live at a much lesser cost. Unlike the scrum to get to/watch an F1 race live. I have booked race day tickets for the Thruxton round and shall be going to WEC @ Silverstone too.
At the end of the day, did I feel I got my money's worth. You bet I did.
How old are you, just out of interest ?You will have nothing to complain about when motor racing is regulated and legislated out. Or when they all run silent electric motors. You'll be dead by then to care. Ooh, they are all 4-pots. Ooh, they are all turbos. What is this, some sort of weird willy waving contest? Bloody hell. Go and support them whilst you still can.
I took a mate who's a very casual F1 fan (never been to any race before), to Brands on Saturday.
As we got to the circuit, Practise session for the BTCC was going on. And you know what, every time the BMWs came past us, he was giggling like a girl hearing the loud bangs during the gear changes. He still hadn't got used to the sound late in the evening. He was still giggling at the end. He had the biggest smile on his face I had seen in ages. I had a huge smile too, listening/seeing the BTCC cars and the others.
You can sit at home complaining, it just means more of us get to watch it live at a much lesser cost. Unlike the scrum to get to/watch an F1 race live. I have booked race day tickets for the Thruxton round and shall be going to WEC @ Silverstone too.
At the end of the day, did I feel I got my money's worth. You bet I did.
EDLT said:
simonigrale said:
Dr Z said:
It is so boring to listen to you, boring old sods going on about the "old days".
You will have nothing to complain about when motor racing is regulated and legislated out. Or when they all run silent electric motors. You'll be dead by then to care. Ooh, they are all 4-pots. Ooh, they are all turbos. What is this, some sort of weird willy waving contest? Bloody hell. Go and support them whilst you still can.
I took a mate who's a very casual F1 fan (never been to any race before), to Brands on Saturday.
As we got to the circuit, Practise session for the BTCC was going on. And you know what, every time the BMWs came past us, he was giggling like a girl hearing the loud bangs during the gear changes. He still hadn't got used to the sound late in the evening. He was still giggling at the end. He had the biggest smile on his face I had seen in ages. I had a huge smile too, listening/seeing the BTCC cars and the others.
You can sit at home complaining, it just means more of us get to watch it live at a much lesser cost. Unlike the scrum to get to/watch an F1 race live. I have booked race day tickets for the Thruxton round and shall be going to WEC @ Silverstone too.
At the end of the day, did I feel I got my money's worth. You bet I did.
How old are you, just out of interest ?You will have nothing to complain about when motor racing is regulated and legislated out. Or when they all run silent electric motors. You'll be dead by then to care. Ooh, they are all 4-pots. Ooh, they are all turbos. What is this, some sort of weird willy waving contest? Bloody hell. Go and support them whilst you still can.
I took a mate who's a very casual F1 fan (never been to any race before), to Brands on Saturday.
As we got to the circuit, Practise session for the BTCC was going on. And you know what, every time the BMWs came past us, he was giggling like a girl hearing the loud bangs during the gear changes. He still hadn't got used to the sound late in the evening. He was still giggling at the end. He had the biggest smile on his face I had seen in ages. I had a huge smile too, listening/seeing the BTCC cars and the others.
You can sit at home complaining, it just means more of us get to watch it live at a much lesser cost. Unlike the scrum to get to/watch an F1 race live. I have booked race day tickets for the Thruxton round and shall be going to WEC @ Silverstone too.
At the end of the day, did I feel I got my money's worth. You bet I did.
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