The Official Hungarian GP Thread 2012 ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
jamieboy said:
To my reading, that seems most likely to be the bit Schumacher fell foul of.
edit to add: rule section 38 is titled "Starting Procedure" and precedes section 39, titled "The Race".
My understanding is that the race starts when the drivers are flagged away on the formation lap. So a car speeding in the pitlane after the parade lap is entitled to the same penalty as a vehicle doing so once the race proper has started.edit to add: rule section 38 is titled "Starting Procedure" and precedes section 39, titled "The Race".
There are additional regulations which apply to the parade lap of course, such as no overtaking except in the set circumstances, and indeed those which apply to the first couple of laps. However to support the contention that the race has started on the parade lap, any subsequent parade lap is taken off the total of the race. Hence, I assume, the message to Hamilton that he could push at the end of the race without concern to fuel economy.
In case anyone comes in with the suggestion, this was so even when refuelling was allowed.
All the above subject to official confirmation of course.
Derek Smith said:
My understanding is that the race starts when the drivers are flagged away on the formation lap. So a car speeding in the pitlane after the parade lap is entitled to the same penalty as a vehicle doing so once the race proper has started.
That definitely seems to be the supposition, but I cannot find the rule that supports it. Can you?Derek Smith said:
There are additional regulations which apply to the parade lap of course, such as no overtaking except in the set circumstances, and indeed those which apply to the first couple of laps. However to support the contention that the race has started on the parade lap, any subsequent parade lap is taken off the total of the race.
Right, except that last part is covered in section 38 "Starting Procedure", not section 39 "The Race", reinforcing the idea that things which happen before the race has been started are not part of the race. 
the final part of 38.11 said:
Every time this happens the race will be shortened by one lap.
..and as previously:38.11 said:
If the race director decides the start should be delayed
If the start is to be delayed, then surely the race cannot have started? I don't think the regulations make your differentiation between "the race" and "the race proper".Anyway, no big deal. I don't recall ever seeing this exact situation before so I was curious to find out the actual facts, but I don't think I'm much further forward.
How come no-one has been accused of 'trolling' or 'contributing nothing' with all this Schumacher stuff? I make a light hearted joke about Hamilton and get accused of being a hater being vehemently anti McLaren.
Ho hum.
Incidentally, I think Msc is doing very well for a 40+ yr old competing against people in the early 20s to early 30s. It's not surprising he is slower (although can still pull a blinder on occasion to show a glimpse of his previous speed). I would argue that where the car is arguably less important - e.g. the wet and at Monaco (where people like Alonso and Hamilton also shine) - he still shows he has some talent.
Ho hum.
Incidentally, I think Msc is doing very well for a 40+ yr old competing against people in the early 20s to early 30s. It's not surprising he is slower (although can still pull a blinder on occasion to show a glimpse of his previous speed). I would argue that where the car is arguably less important - e.g. the wet and at Monaco (where people like Alonso and Hamilton also shine) - he still shows he has some talent.
vonuber said:
..Incidentally, I think Msc is doing very well for a 40+ yr old competing against people in the early 20s to early 30s. It's not surprising he is slower (although can still pull a blinder on occasion to show a glimpse of his previous speed). I would argue that where the car is arguably less important - e.g. the wet and at Monaco (where people like Alonso and Hamilton also shine) - he still shows he has some talent.
Don't give me reasons, don't give me explanations, don't give me excuses - just give me the f..ing results is what sales managers often say. Mermaid said:
vonuber said:
..Incidentally, I think Msc is doing very well for a 40+ yr old competing against people in the early 20s to early 30s. It's not surprising he is slower (although can still pull a blinder on occasion to show a glimpse of his previous speed). I would argue that where the car is arguably less important - e.g. the wet and at Monaco (where people like Alonso and Hamilton also shine) - he still shows he has some talent.
Don't give me reasons, don't give me explanations, don't give me excuses - just give me the f..ing results is what sales managers often say. jamieboy said:
If the start is to be delayed, then surely the race cannot have started? I don't think the regulations make your differentiation between "the race" and "the race proper".
Anyway, no big deal. I don't recall ever seeing this exact situation before so I was curious to find out the actual facts, but I don't think I'm much further forward.
I think the problem for the likes of me is that various restrictions come in at various times and the 'race' has more than one definition.Anyway, no big deal. I don't recall ever seeing this exact situation before so I was curious to find out the actual facts, but I don't think I'm much further forward.
I remember a time a few years ago when someone stalled on the starting grid and it was suggested that it was to enable his teammate to get back into the race as he'd stalled on the formation of the parade lap grid. I seem to remember it was Ferrari but then I would I suppose. There were lots of arguments but in the end lethargy ruled.
I have problems understanding the regs as it is easy to read one, believe it literally, and then discover that it depended on a previous para and sub section. And this from a bloke who had to interpret legislation and write reports on various acts.
As for no big deal . . . Are you serious? We've got weeks to go before the next race. Technical points is all we've got.
stephen300o said:
Mermaid said:
vonuber said:
..Incidentally, I think Msc is doing very well for a 40+ yr old competing against people in the early 20s to early 30s. It's not surprising he is slower (although can still pull a blinder on occasion to show a glimpse of his previous speed). I would argue that where the car is arguably less important - e.g. the wet and at Monaco (where people like Alonso and Hamilton also shine) - he still shows he has some talent.
Don't give me reasons, don't give me explanations, don't give me excuses - just give me the f..ing results is what sales managers often say. On that respect he should have been sacked in 1997, which would have been an......oversight?
Cheese Mechanic said:
toppstuff said:
CiderwithCerbie said:
Keep up at the back!
I don't hate him - never met the guy - I just say what I think - he's an overrated cheat who did not care about anyone but himself. He put his fellow competitors at serious risk with his pure arrogance and damaged the credibility of F1 for years. He also thought he could waltz back in and trump the new generation, but has had a nasty shock which puts the veracity of his years of dominance into question.
Oh, & I am not alone in these views, but I am the one who most enjoys flushing the blind Scumsucker fanboy including the abusers who add nothing to the debate.
BTW you know nothing about me, so why is it OK to write such abusive tripe - you hypocrite.
I won't answer the underachieving bit but perhaps someone else can inform this ignoramus of my qualifications?
All fair points, though, well made... I don't hate him - never met the guy - I just say what I think - he's an overrated cheat who did not care about anyone but himself. He put his fellow competitors at serious risk with his pure arrogance and damaged the credibility of F1 for years. He also thought he could waltz back in and trump the new generation, but has had a nasty shock which puts the veracity of his years of dominance into question.
Oh, & I am not alone in these views, but I am the one who most enjoys flushing the blind Scumsucker fanboy including the abusers who add nothing to the debate.
BTW you know nothing about me, so why is it OK to write such abusive tripe - you hypocrite.
I won't answer the underachieving bit but perhaps someone else can inform this ignoramus of my qualifications?
The man is an utter disgrace, he has not changed , his antics of near putting Barrichelo into the wall is just one instance, to me, he just reminds me of
the negative reactions I had concerning F1 , I just want him to go away , he is the turd in the swimming pool.
I'm no great fan of Schumacher but I am a massive fan of F1 and because of that I think Schumacher is one of the greatest ever drivers to have graced the sport. And perhaps even more than that, as I approach my 5th decade on this planet I admire him for being able to compete even though he is 43. How many 43 year olds are competing at the very top level of any sport?
oyster said:
Ahhh the 3 stooges all together in one post.
I'm no great fan of Schumacher but I am a massive fan of F1 and because of that I think Schumacher is one of the greatest ever drivers to have graced the sport. And perhaps even more than that, as I approach my 5th decade on this planet I admire him for being able to compete even though he is 43. How many 43 year olds are competing at the very top level of any sport?
It is a sitting down sport. The physical exertion is not like rowing, swimming or marathon running. I'm no great fan of Schumacher but I am a massive fan of F1 and because of that I think Schumacher is one of the greatest ever drivers to have graced the sport. And perhaps even more than that, as I approach my 5th decade on this planet I admire him for being able to compete even though he is 43. How many 43 year olds are competing at the very top level of any sport?
I think his age is largely immaterial and so consequently ( as someone roughly the same age as you ) I do not find his involvement any more inspiring given that he is 43.
He could be ten years younger and I ( and others ) would still regard him as spectacularly overrated.
toppstuff said:
It is a sitting down sport. The physical exertion is not like rowing, swimming or marathon running.
I think his age is largely immaterial and so consequently ( as someone roughly the same age as you ) I do not find his involvement any more inspiring given that he is 43.
He could be ten years younger and I ( and others ) would still regard him as spectacularly overrated.
Do you stand up when rowing then? Swimming you lie down. Come on, 90 minutes of intense concentration, severe G forces, intense heat, ever present danger from accidents. I think his age is largely immaterial and so consequently ( as someone roughly the same age as you ) I do not find his involvement any more inspiring given that he is 43.
He could be ten years younger and I ( and others ) would still regard him as spectacularly overrated.
SRT77 said:
toppstuff said:
It is a sitting down sport. The physical exertion is not like rowing, swimming or marathon running.
I think his age is largely immaterial and so consequently ( as someone roughly the same age as you ) I do not find his involvement any more inspiring given that he is 43.
He could be ten years younger and I ( and others ) would still regard him as spectacularly overrated.
Do you stand up when rowing then? Swimming you lie down. Come on, 90 minutes of intense concentration, severe G forces, intense heat, ever present danger from accidents. I think his age is largely immaterial and so consequently ( as someone roughly the same age as you ) I do not find his involvement any more inspiring given that he is 43.
He could be ten years younger and I ( and others ) would still regard him as spectacularly overrated.
SRT77 said:
Do you stand up when rowing then? Swimming you lie down. Come on, 90 minutes of intense concentration, severe G forces, intense heat, ever present danger from accidents.
Have you ever rowed? Obviously not.Racing drivers have to be very fit, they have to stand up to G forces ( but nothing like an aircraft pilot even in small stunt plane ) and above all they have to concentrate intensely. I accept that.
But concentrating really hard does not make your brain create so much lactic acid that your body feels like it is burning and the act of driving does not rob your body of breath to such an extent that you think you are going to die. Endurance sports do.
toppstuff said:
Have you ever rowed? Obviously not.
Racing drivers have to be very fit, they have to stand up to G forces ( but nothing like an aircraft pilot even in small stunt plane ) and above all they have to concentrate intensely. I accept that.
But concentrating really hard does not make your brain create so much lactic acid that your body feels like it is burning and the act of driving does not rob your body of breath to such an extent that you think you are going to die. Endurance sports do.
Absolute G number's are obviously lower but the direction of the loading is different - the loads on their necks are much higher than pilots experience. Racing drivers have to be very fit, they have to stand up to G forces ( but nothing like an aircraft pilot even in small stunt plane ) and above all they have to concentrate intensely. I accept that.
But concentrating really hard does not make your brain create so much lactic acid that your body feels like it is burning and the act of driving does not rob your body of breath to such an extent that you think you are going to die. Endurance sports do.
Use Psychology said:
g forces that pilots experience are generally longitudinal not lateral, which makes them much easier to deal with.
Rearrange thisout arse talking of there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RT4yQnNtxY&fea...
Use Psychology said:
g forces that pilots experience are generally longitudinal not lateral, which makes them much easier to deal with.
Don't need G suits in F1, no risk of black/red out with blood being forced up or down. But people do underestimate the physicality of driving an F1 car, if you are not fit you will wilt after a few laps.
Although I think Montoya and Mansel used bloody mindedness rather than any sort of fitness.
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