RE: Rally GB: Loeb Ends WRC Era With Victory
Wednesday 17th November 2010
The 2010 season marks the end of an era for the current WRC cars. Regulations changes next season will see this year's S2000 cars become the WRC car, their 2000cc engines replaced by a 1600cc turbocharged unit.
Rally veteran Solberg this year returned to WRC as a privateer; his third place in the championship overall is a tremendous result.
The crash put Ogier back to fourth in the championship behind Jari-Matti Latvala and Petter Solberg.
Rally GB: Loeb Ends WRC Era With Victory
PHer Mark Mullen reports from the final outing for the current generation of WRC cars
These changes, designed to reduce costs and encourage other manufacturers to enter the sport, will see MINI enter the Countryman WRC car, a return to rallying after a long break for the company. The new breed of cars is likely to produce around 300bhp and will remain four-wheel drive.
Seven times World Champion Sebastien Loeb ended the current WRC era in fine fashion with a victory on the Welsh mountains of Rally GB. He had already claimed the 2010 championship on home soil on the Rally France at the beginning of October. The French rally star brought home his Citroen C4 WRC over 19 seconds ahead of rival C4 driver Petter Solberg to the ceremonial finish in Cardiff.
"To beat the factory team is bloody difficult but I have done my best and pushed really hard," said Solberg, formerly a works driver for the Subaru World Rally Team and 2003 WRC Champion.
A crash 500 metres from the end of SS8, Radnor, ended the charge of Loeb's fellow Frenchman Sebastien Ogier who was pushing hard to finish runner up in the championship "I came too fast in corner and that was it. The conditions were as slippery as I expected them to be. I'm stupid."
In addition to the WRC cars this year's Wales Rally GB also had the Welsh forests and mountains echoing to the sounds of some altogether more classic vehicles, as a two-day National B event, Wales Rally GB National, ran on the Saturday and Sunday. Entries included the iconic Metro 6R4, Ford Escort Cosworth and of course the old favourite Mk2 Escort.
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Discussion
Well done Seb for sweeping the floor in the last 7 years.
I won't hold my breath for the new generation of cars though... I understand that everything is driven by cost these days but it feels like a step backwards (1600cc turbo? what next 1000cc super-dooper-whooper charged?)...
I mean... come on!
I won't hold my breath for the new generation of cars though... I understand that everything is driven by cost these days but it feels like a step backwards (1600cc turbo? what next 1000cc super-dooper-whooper charged?)...
I mean... come on!
Edited by rallyman77 on Tuesday 16th November 15:12
rallyman77 said:
Well done Seb for sweeping the floor in the last 7 years.
I won't hold my breath for the new generation of cars though... I understand that everything is driven by cost these days but it feels like a step backwards (1600cc turbo? what next
1000cc super-dooper-whooper
charged?)...
I mean... come on!
[footnote]Edited by rallyman77 on
Tuesday 16th November
15:12[/footnote]
Agree your first point (well done Loeb), disagree your second. Anything to get more manufacturers / privateers in has to be good, no? Back in the 80's & 90's I used to spectate / marshall and throw the programme away 'cos it was more fun NOT knowing what was coming next.I won't hold my breath for the new generation of cars though... I understand that everything is driven by cost these days but it feels like a step backwards (1600cc turbo? what next
1000cc super-dooper-whooper
charged?)...
I mean... come on!
[footnote]Edited by rallyman77 on
Tuesday 16th November
15:12[/footnote]
IMHO, the only two-make championship that works is Aussie V8 Supercars.
We'll have to see if the new regs make rallying any more exciting but something is needed. It's hard to understand how a sport that was so much fun to watch when cars had anything from 100bhp (Minis) to 250bhp (Escorts) has become so boring with 300+bhp. 4wd doesn't seem to be the culprit because there was nothing boring about the Quattros, Deltas and 6R4s. I suspect the culprit is modern transmission technologies and tyres that mean the cars just don't need to be driven sideways any more.
Mind, I'd also like to see pace notes banned for an event such as the RAC (whoops, I mean Rally Wales GB, obviously). It was always the case that if you're not 100% sure which way a corner is going, you need to be sideways on the way in to give you options. That doesn't seem to apply with pace notes.
Still, congrats to Seb Loeb despite the boring results - it's not his fault that no one can beat him!
Mind, I'd also like to see pace notes banned for an event such as the RAC (whoops, I mean Rally Wales GB, obviously). It was always the case that if you're not 100% sure which way a corner is going, you need to be sideways on the way in to give you options. That doesn't seem to apply with pace notes.
Still, congrats to Seb Loeb despite the boring results - it's not his fault that no one can beat him!
As far as i can tell the move to 1600cc will bring exactly...... no difference what so ever to the cars! Modern inlet restricted wrc engines basically are all limited by the choked 34mm pre-compressor intake restrictor, so assuming this isnt going to change size, then going from 2.0 to 1.6 isnt really going to change a lot!! (ok, they will probably be down 15bhp due to turbocharger efficiency loss (1.6 requires higher boost for same Mdot, but that isnt gonna make a noticable difference to the fans)
I guess though 1.6 sounds a bit more "green" and just happens to suit the range of cars the manufacturers want to push to sell. In fact, with citroen, mini, and ford all use the same PSA 1.6 litre engine iirc??
I guess though 1.6 sounds a bit more "green" and just happens to suit the range of cars the manufacturers want to push to sell. In fact, with citroen, mini, and ford all use the same PSA 1.6 litre engine iirc??
Sebastian Loeb: I might not like your country, or your language, but (and as "buts" go its a fecking enormous one!!!) You are a driving god, and probably the best rally driver to have ever exsisted. Bravo, well done, and good on ya'.....
Gwiz
(congratulating a french man about being good at something actually made a bit of sick come into the back of my mouth, eeuurrggghhhh! it just feels wrong.......)
Gwiz
(congratulating a french man about being good at something actually made a bit of sick come into the back of my mouth, eeuurrggghhhh! it just feels wrong.......)
Think the smaller engines will be more interesting, should open up the game to a few more cars, and hopefully, although probably not, more privateers.
Not being too up to scratch with these things, can anyone tell me if there are budget caps etc. in rallying, would be interesting throughout the season..?
Not being too up to scratch with these things, can anyone tell me if there are budget caps etc. in rallying, would be interesting throughout the season..?
I think the whole reason behind the new rules for next year and beyond, is to generate the kind of support and following that the IRC generates. Plus it cuts costs right down, due to smaller engines, non active diffs, no fancy materials allowed, none of this paddle shift malarkey, so in theory it will make it easier and cheaper for other manufacturers and privateers like solberg to compete at the highest level, which cant be a bad thing surely. And if you think the cars will be boring, look up 2011 wrc car testing on youtube, loeb and ogier are tesing the new ds3 wrc car, and it sounds pretty much like the c4, so it wont make that much difference tbh
GingerWizard said:
Sebastian Loeb: I might not like your country, or your language, but (and as "buts" go its a fecking enormous one!!!) You are a driving god, and probably the best rally driver to have ever exsisted. Bravo, well done, and good on ya'.....
Gwiz
(congratulating a french man about being good at something actually made a bit of sick come into the back of my mouth, eeuurrggghhhh! it just feels wrong.......)
Well I feel the same except I love France, the roads, people, food, the whole friggin place so well done Seb!Gwiz
(congratulating a french man about being good at something actually made a bit of sick come into the back of my mouth, eeuurrggghhhh! it just feels wrong.......)
soad said:
Cracking set of pics- excellent!
Thankyou, the full set is on my flickr, http://www.flickr.com/photos/markmullen/sets/72157...Sebastian Loeb, a great talent in a rally car. A deserving champion, and seems to be a genuine nice chap.
I do feel that in the last few years though his wins have become more hollow if you know what I mean. The lack of manufacturer support has really put a downer on the whole series, the standard of driving has been there but the talent has had trouble getting into a works drive, Solberg for one has proved it this year.
Motors TV coverage has been a vast improvement this weekend, lots of incar and no silly celebrity sections and drivel you get from the Dave coverage previously. I just wish this sort of coverage was available on the mainstream channels, I think this will only start to bring the manufacturers back into the championship. I know there are a few more next year with the new cars but is it going to be sustainable in the current conditions? Whats the point in covering the cars in sponsorship if only the stage side fans get to see the cars properly?.. I know the logistics of rally held over a few days and in many locations make broadcast footage difficult, unlike F1, but it can be done as proved.
I do feel that in the last few years though his wins have become more hollow if you know what I mean. The lack of manufacturer support has really put a downer on the whole series, the standard of driving has been there but the talent has had trouble getting into a works drive, Solberg for one has proved it this year.
Motors TV coverage has been a vast improvement this weekend, lots of incar and no silly celebrity sections and drivel you get from the Dave coverage previously. I just wish this sort of coverage was available on the mainstream channels, I think this will only start to bring the manufacturers back into the championship. I know there are a few more next year with the new cars but is it going to be sustainable in the current conditions? Whats the point in covering the cars in sponsorship if only the stage side fans get to see the cars properly?.. I know the logistics of rally held over a few days and in many locations make broadcast footage difficult, unlike F1, but it can be done as proved.
The only thing good about the cars for next year is that they are about the right size for a rally car. IMHO they need another 100 hp and weigh 200kg less.
TV coverage needs to change, there is too much on board, it disjoints the story of the event when you show 1 external shot and then cut to a couple of POV's from the on board camera.
The rallies need to be a bit more mixed up, 5 days marathon rallys and 24 hour sprints and everything in between.
The competition is also a bit pants at the mo, not enough top class drivers and cars. It seems if you have a WRC you'll finish in the top 15.
Finally next year we'll know just how average Matt Wilson is. Part of me thinks it is the Stobart cars as they are genuinely second tier compared to even the junior Citroens, but there again it could be Wilson.
With the cars next year all being equal at least to start with, and with many decent international drivers in them from the various domestic championships, being 5-6 mins off the pace will see you at the bottom of the top 20.
My prediction for Wilson is that being in equal cars will either make him or break him.
TV coverage needs to change, there is too much on board, it disjoints the story of the event when you show 1 external shot and then cut to a couple of POV's from the on board camera.
The rallies need to be a bit more mixed up, 5 days marathon rallys and 24 hour sprints and everything in between.
The competition is also a bit pants at the mo, not enough top class drivers and cars. It seems if you have a WRC you'll finish in the top 15.
Finally next year we'll know just how average Matt Wilson is. Part of me thinks it is the Stobart cars as they are genuinely second tier compared to even the junior Citroens, but there again it could be Wilson.
With the cars next year all being equal at least to start with, and with many decent international drivers in them from the various domestic championships, being 5-6 mins off the pace will see you at the bottom of the top 20.
My prediction for Wilson is that being in equal cars will either make him or break him.
"The only thing good about the cars for next year is that they are about the right size for a rally car. IMHO they need another 100 hp and weigh 200kg less."
How do you know that cars smaller than the GB winning C4 will be better? It looks to me like the C4 is actually the perfect size for a rally car, not to big or too small.
Anyone have any real world understanding of what size is optimal for rallying? Thanks j
How do you know that cars smaller than the GB winning C4 will be better? It looks to me like the C4 is actually the perfect size for a rally car, not to big or too small.
Anyone have any real world understanding of what size is optimal for rallying? Thanks j
j123 said:
"The only thing good about the cars for next year is that they are about the right size for a rally car. IMHO they need another 100 hp and weigh 200kg less."
How do you know that cars smaller than the GB winning C4 will be better? It looks to me like the C4 is actually the perfect size for a rally car, not to big or too small.
Anyone have any real world understanding of what size is optimal for rallying? Thanks j
The new cars are a lot less stable (according to Loeb!), so from a spectator's point of view they are better. The C4 is almost too good at times.How do you know that cars smaller than the GB winning C4 will be better? It looks to me like the C4 is actually the perfect size for a rally car, not to big or too small.
Anyone have any real world understanding of what size is optimal for rallying? Thanks j
Also, I've just been watching the BBC's rally coverage. Probably done with 1/10th of the budget its turned out to be ten times better imo.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00w02zp/Wale...
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