Critique my Route to Tuscany! (Lakes, Alps, Black Forest)

[rob0r]

Next week I'm embarking on my first proper European road trip . I have 3 days to get there and three days to get back, with a week in a villa near Cortona in the middle. The villa and all hotels are booked, but my routes are fluctuating between them, please have a look and comment! If it helps I'm going in a newly purchased '96 XK8 convertible...

My main areas I'm not sure of is the best passes to drive between on the way there (day 3 - Lucerne to Como) and the way back (day 2 - Garda to Black Forest). I hear there are better passes to take than Stelvio but I'm unsure. I was tempted to scrap Stelvio/Bernina etc and go towards Timmelsjoch.

Assuming the link below works... This is not yet complete, but should be tonight.
https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=zRKWFoV...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

TRIP THERE:

Day 1 - Ipswich to Lille, Tuesday
5pm leave Ipswich for Dover
10pm Dover to Dunkirk Ferry
1-2am arrive at Lille for a few hours sleep

Day 2 - Lille to Lucerne Switzerland
8am Leave Lille
??am Reims GP Buildings
??pm Arrive at my hotel East of Lucerne

Day 3 - Lucerne to Lake Como
8am Leave Lucerne
Susten pass
Grimsel pass
Furka pass
Gotthard Pass
Down to Como and go around the north side of the Lake

Day 5 - Lake Como to Cortona
I'm just planning to drive as per sat nav, unless there are any particular scenic routes I should be taking??

TRIP BACK:

Day 1 - Cortona to Lake Garda
I'm just planning to drive as per sat nav, unless there are any particular scenic routes I should be taking??

Day 2 - Lake Garda to Schluchsee, Black Forest - LONG DAY
Leave 8-9am
Stelvio Pass
Bernina Pass
Abula Pass
Chur
Schluchsee, Black Forest

Day 3 - Schluchshee to Freiburg
A relaxed day in the Black Forest, hitting any lakes we see and good roads
Any things I must see/drive?

Day 4 - Freiburg to Ipswich LONG DAY
As the sat nav takes me...

[mr pg]

I think your day 3 will be quite long. We did the Grimsell, Susten, and Gottard a month ago. Shame you can't fit in the Nufenen Pass which is close by. I think I enjoyed it ahead of the Susten.

[rob0r]

Thanks for your feedback, at this point I really don't know which passes are which, so any recommendation is appreciated.

Lucerne to Como at the moment looks like
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Zugerstrasse+44,...

On the basis of the Nufenpass instead of Sustenpass...
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/Zugerstrasse+44,...

There's not a lot in it with the estimated times and I'm in no real rush to get to Como, would Nufenpass be the better idea?

[mr pg]

What I meant by putting Nufenen above Susten was that they were the two best roads we did in 2000 miles. We made a late change to our planned route which meant not doing the Furka, and did Nufenen instead. It's very awkward to get them all in. There were also roadworks on the Gottard, which could delay you if still there.

[Kieranv]

For driving in Freiburg you need somesort of emissions sticker on the windscreen or risk a fine. We only discovered this having driven through the town to get to our hotel. We risked it and got out without any fines but it's worth noting.

[m3jappa]

I asked a similar question when I did a similar trip and someone just said "get to tuscany as quick as you can"

Reason being is the roads are simply stunning, some great ahead vision too so on some roads you don't even need to know them and you can push on easily.

That said I enjoyed all the major passes, but only from a sightseeing perspective, driving quickly on some of them would be literally suicidal!

Some of the tuscany roads felt like Tarmac rally special stages! I must go back! Enjoy the trip

[AlexIT]

To OP, if your're not been through yet, for day 2 Stelvio might be closed till august 15th.
See my topic in this same section.

[rob0r]

Kieranv said:

For driving in Freiburg you need somesort of emissions sticker on the windscreen or risk a fine. We only discovered this having driven through the town to get to our hotel. We risked it and got out without any fines but it's worth noting.

I did not know that... Oops! We went through the outer suburbs of Freiburg earlier in the day, went up to Triberg and then returned to Freiburg on the Autobahn as the hotel was just off an exit.

[rob0r]

m3jappa said:

I asked a similar question when I did a similar trip and someone just said "get to tuscany as quick as you can"

Reason being is the roads are simply stunning, some great ahead vision too so on some roads you don't even need to know them and you can push on easily.

That said I enjoyed all the major passes, but only from a sightseeing perspective, driving quickly on some of them would be literally suicidal!

Some of the tuscany roads felt like Tarmac rally special stages! I must go back! Enjoy the trip

I stayed in the Niccone valley on the SS416 and the mountain roads to either Cortona or Lago Tresemaine were fantastic! The E45 dual carriageway we used to get to Tuscany and back was absolutely awful though, the poor XK8 took an absolutely battering on the horrifically rutted road surface!!

[rob0r]

AlexIT said:

To OP, if your're not been through yet, for day 2 Stelvio might be closed till august 15th.
See my topic in this same section.

I appreciate the heads up though I missed this post at the time. I ended up avoiding Stelvio as I was actually overheated the brake pads coming down the Nufenpass on the way to Italy. I assumed Stelvio was going to be more extreme and busier so thought it was best to avoid anyway.

[rob0r]

I got back two days ago and what a trip!! This is what I ended up doing...

Lucerne to Lake Como
Sustenpass
Grimselpass
Furka pass (went west to east, reached the summit and turned back to the west)
Nufenpass

Lake Garda to Schluchsee Black Forest
Aprica/Tirona
Bernina Pass
Julier Pass
Chur

Schluchsee to Frieburg
Schluchsee - Feldburg - Schauinsland (epic roads!!)
Schauinsland - Triberg Waterfall
Triberg - Sankt Margen - Sankt Peter - Freiburg

Thoughts...
France: epic motorways. Empty, quick and relaxing. Reims Geaux was fantastic

Switzerland: Absolutely epic. The lakes around Lucerne, the alps and all the passes were amazing. Definitely want to return here asap!

Italy: Lake Como was too hot and touristy to enjoy, though very old and fantastic. We stayed at an amazing B&B in Lierna for two nights though.

Lake Garda was nice, especially Sirmione, I was surprised about the booming night life though! Another epic B&B in Padenghe Sul Garda

Tuscany: It was extremely dry when we went and I expect the scenary is much nicer in the earlier parts of the year. Our villa was right up in the mountains and we were eaten alive by horse flies. Wasps, mice and scorpions were also interesting... The mountain roads were stunning. We did a road trip through Val D'Orcia ending up at San Filipo natural hot springs which was one of the highlights of the trip.

I hated the Italy driving, roads, supermarkets, petrol stations (nearly all rejected my mastercard!!) and service stations though :P

[rob0r]

2900 miles at 23mpg... OUCH