Fiesta ST

[HazzaT]

Colonel D said:

This is the first time I've heard of stage 4/5 upgrades for a Fiesta. What power would it be, and what has to be changed in order to stop the engine going boom?

It really depends on the package/company. Usually the Mk7 gets to about 360-380bhp before needing to beef up the internals, but past 300 you need better fuelling which covers the jump from a stage 3 kit to stage 4

[Colonel D]

HazzaT said:

It really depends on the package/company. Usually the Mk7 gets to about 360-380bhp before needing to beef up the internals, but past 300 you need better fuelling which covers the jump from a stage 3 kit to stage 4

mooseracer said:

Really not a lot needs changing, it's a strong engine. There are supporting breathing mods that can be done but they aren't essential.

"Stage 4" is between 300 and 330
"Stage 5" upwards of 350 (needs bigger injectors for top power)

In a Fiesta? I'd love to see that, Can the gearbox take the extra torque? I'm sure I read about them being limited in 1st and 2nd gear for longevity

[J4CKO]

HazzaT said:

Colonel D said:

This is the first time I've heard of stage 4/5 upgrades for a Fiesta. What power would it be, and what has to be changed in order to stop the engine going boom?

It really depends on the package/company. Usually the Mk7 gets to about 360-380bhp before needing to beef up the internals, but past 300 you need better fuelling which covers the jump from a stage 3 kit to stage 4

Indeed, apparently, folklore has it that the engine in these was developed for a cancelled RS Fiesta so the internals are pretty stout for the output in the ST. They arent forged but they do seem to cope with a lot more power before needing to be.

I am not into "stages", used to work with a guy who rattled on about them all the time, not just 1,2,3 4 etc, but fractions as well "My Octavia VS was Stage 2.75 but I wanted to take it to Stage 3.5 but I sold it and bought my Insignia diesel, that's Stage 3.14"

They are just convenient shorthand to group together a certain set of mods

1 is a remap only (220 ish bhp)

2 is a remap plus exhaust, induction and stage 1 intercooler upgrade (230 ish bhp)

2E is what I have, as Stage 2 but a different Actuator (basically a stiffer spring) for the turbo (240 ish bhp)

3 Doesnt exist in Collins list nowadays but was their 270 bhp package with an upgraded turbo.

4 is everything in 2, Stage 3 (full height) intercooler, plus a sports cat (or decat at if you are naughty, im not, sports cat) and a Turbo Technics 270 turbo, about 300 ish bhp

5, as per 4 plus higher capacity injectors and a TT 280 turbo (about 340 bhp)

Obviously they have a different map at each level.

There is too much focus on peak bhp in the Fiesta ST tuning, its typically a lot of younger enthusiasts who go for the most BHP quoted and aggressive mapping. I think I haven't seen traction issues as its mapped conservatively with no torque spike to overcome the grip of the tyres.

Its not perhaps as cheap as people think to do this well, I will have spent £3800 or so to get it to 300 bhp and not done any brake or suspension modifications yet, just the tuning, a quick shift and engine stabiliser. It already had some Mountune lowering springs and a Mountune exhaust.

[NNH]

I'm watching the upgrades with interest as my car will slip out of its warranty in September. In the meantime though, my wife and I took a 2500 mile roadtrip from Los Angeles to Idaho and back, stopping in rural Nevada to act as course marshals for the Silver State Classic (obligatory photo of racecar blasting past my post with ST in the background)

It was a great trip, and although a Fiesta's not an obvious choice for a western road trip, the ST coped with snow in Oregon, mountains in Idaho, massive lifted pickup trucks in Salt Lake City, and didn't tire us out even though we're tall and in our late forties.

[MC Bodge]

J4CKO said:

Indeed, apparently, folklore has it that the engine in these was developed for a cancelled RS Fiesta so the internals are pretty stout for the output in the ST. They arent forged but they do seem to cope with a lot more power before needing to be.

I am not into "stages", used to work with a guy who rattled on about them all the time, not just 1,2,3 4 etc, but fractions as well "My Octavia VS was Stage 2.75 but I wanted to take it to Stage 3.5 but I sold it and bought my Insignia diesel, that's Stage 3.14"

They are just convenient shorthand to group together a certain set of mods

1 is a remap only (220 ish bhp)

2 is a remap plus exhaust, induction and stage 1 intercooler upgrade (230 ish bhp)

2E is what I have, as Stage 2 but a different Actuator (basically a stiffer spring) for the turbo (240 ish bhp)

3 Doesnt exist in Collins list nowadays but was their 270 bhp package with an upgraded turbo.

4 is everything in 2, Stage 3 (full height) intercooler, plus a sports cat (or decat at if you are naughty, im not, sports cat) and a Turbo Technics 270 turbo, about 300 ish bhp

5, as per 4 plus higher capacity injectors and a TT 280 turbo (about 340 bhp)

Obviously they have a different map at each level.

There is too much focus on peak bhp in the Fiesta ST tuning, its typically a lot of younger enthusiasts who go for the most BHP quoted and aggressive mapping. I think I haven't seen traction issues as its mapped conservatively with no torque spike to overcome the grip of the tyres.

Its not perhaps as cheap as people think to do this well, I will have spent £3800 or so to get it to 300 bhp and not done any brake or suspension modifications yet, just the tuning, a quick shift and engine stabiliser. It already had some Mountune lowering springs and a Mountune exhaust.

That's interesting, thanks. I hadn't realised that it was quite involved or expensive. In my mind, and without any justification(!), I'd assumed that the Stage 4 output required only the work of Stage 2.

It will be interesting to find out what your thoughts are when the work is done.

[J4CKO]

MC Bodge said:

J4CKO said:

Indeed, apparently, folklore has it that the engine in these was developed for a cancelled RS Fiesta so the internals are pretty stout for the output in the ST. They arent forged but they do seem to cope with a lot more power before needing to be.

I am not into "stages", used to work with a guy who rattled on about them all the time, not just 1,2,3 4 etc, but fractions as well "My Octavia VS was Stage 2.75 but I wanted to take it to Stage 3.5 but I sold it and bought my Insignia diesel, that's Stage 3.14"

They are just convenient shorthand to group together a certain set of mods

1 is a remap only (220 ish bhp)

2 is a remap plus exhaust, induction and stage 1 intercooler upgrade (230 ish bhp)

2E is what I have, as Stage 2 but a different Actuator (basically a stiffer spring) for the turbo (240 ish bhp)

3 Doesnt exist in Collins list nowadays but was their 270 bhp package with an upgraded turbo.

4 is everything in 2, Stage 3 (full height) intercooler, plus a sports cat (or decat at if you are naughty, im not, sports cat) and a Turbo Technics 270 turbo, about 300 ish bhp

5, as per 4 plus higher capacity injectors and a TT 280 turbo (about 340 bhp)

Obviously they have a different map at each level.

There is too much focus on peak bhp in the Fiesta ST tuning, its typically a lot of younger enthusiasts who go for the most BHP quoted and aggressive mapping. I think I haven't seen traction issues as its mapped conservatively with no torque spike to overcome the grip of the tyres.

Its not perhaps as cheap as people think to do this well, I will have spent £3800 or so to get it to 300 bhp and not done any brake or suspension modifications yet, just the tuning, a quick shift and engine stabiliser. It already had some Mountune lowering springs and a Mountune exhaust.

That's interesting, thanks. I hadn't realised that it was quite involved or expensive. In my mind, and without any justification(!), I'd assumed that the Stage 4 output required only the work of Stage 2.

It will be interesting to find out what your thoughts are when the work is done.

Yeah, 25th its booked in. It should be quick enough now and it does move quite well, just might as well do it now.

I am a lot happier in this than the BMW, its not perfect but its closer to what I like in a car, its just getting chance to actually use the performance as everytime you get some straight road a Qashqai appears doing 43 mph, or a white van in the right hand lane on an otherwise empty road.

It is a car I will just take out to drive for the sake of it.

[Colonel D]

J4CKO said:

Yeah, 25th its booked in. It should be quick enough now and it does move quite well, just might as well do it now.

I am a lot happier in this than the BMW, its not perfect but its closer to what I like in a car, its just getting chance to actually use the performance as everytime you get some straight road a Qashqai appears doing 43 mph, or a white van in the right hand lane on an otherwise empty road.

It is a car I will just take out to drive for the sake of it.

I'm still shocked thinking about a Fiesta with that much power. The cost isn't as expensive as I thought it would be, brake upgrade might be a good idea next.

[MC Bodge]

J4CKO said:

its just getting chance to actually use the performance as everytime you get some straight road a Qashqai appears doing 43 mph, or a white van in the right hand lane on an otherwise empty road.

It is a car I will just take out to drive for the sake of it.

I can understand why you would like the Fiesta more than the BMW.

You do really need to go out early and to drive on roads with good visibility to avoid endangering people walking, riding horses, riding bikes etc.

I found that riding motorbikes, the overtaking ability was useful (and that is available from a fairly modest bike), but beyond that a lot of restraint was required.

Edited by MC Bodge on Thursday 3rd June 08:46

[J4CKO]

Colonel D said:

J4CKO said:

Yeah, 25th its booked in. It should be quick enough now and it does move quite well, just might as well do it now.

I am a lot happier in this than the BMW, its not perfect but its closer to what I like in a car, its just getting chance to actually use the performance as everytime you get some straight road a Qashqai appears doing 43 mph, or a white van in the right hand lane on an otherwise empty road.

It is a car I will just take out to drive for the sake of it.

I'm still shocked thinking about a Fiesta with that much power. The cost isn't as expensive as I thought it would be, brake upgrade might be a good idea next.

300 ish bhp is not that high in Fiesta ST land, almost seen as mild which is bizarre, the American owners especially push the envelope with sometimes 400 bhp on standard internals, sometimes when they change the pistons and rods for forged items they go even higher. Have to take a step back and think that it is still an 1150/1200 kilo 1600 cc shopping hatch with 300 bhp, 300 bhp Fiesta used to be Max Power cover cars with a Cosworth engine driving the rear wheels, now its just wheel it in, hand over your card and pick it up later in the day.

Am looking at brakes, the pads are fine on the front, were done by Ford not that long ago but there is more of a lip on the disk than I would like so will change them, just deciding on which brand, will change the fluid as well as cant vouch for when it was last done.

Then, will have a break and just drive it for a bit and not spend any more money, my youngest passed his test yesterday so I need to sort him out some wheels, plus we need a new bathroom.

I can get pretty much what I want but think have spent enough for now before I get to any suspension changes, I would like to Polybush it which is more a time and effort thing, possibly a set of coilovers but decent ones are £800, bit much as yet.

Have got a "Symposer Delete" thing coming, £12.50 and apparently cuts some of the racket coming into the cabin, will try it and see if it helps with all the whooshing, fluttering and gurgling which is fun but grates a bit on a longer journey.

Its funny, my son and his mates are all stepping up out of ST's, my eldest has a Golf R and his mate just got a 2018 S4.

[J4CKO]

MC Bodge said:

J4CKO said:

its just getting chance to actually use the performance as everytime you get some straight road a Qashqai appears doing 43 mph, or a white van in the right hand lane on an otherwise empty road.

It is a car I will just take out to drive for the sake of it.

I can understand why you would like the Fiesta more. Than the BMW.

You do really need to go out early and to drive on roads with good visibility to avoid endangering people walking, riding horses, riding bikes etc.

I found that riding motorbikes, the overtaking ability was useful (and that is available from a fairly modest bike), but beyond that a lot of restraint was required.

Yeah, well sighted roads at quiet times, not in the business of being a nuisance, and am fully aware a noisy, bright red Fiesta can look a bit antisocial.

[cerb4.5lee]

Colonel D said:

I'm still shocked thinking about a Fiesta with that much power. The cost isn't as expensive as I thought it would be, brake upgrade might be a good idea next.

When I took my 200SX from 200bhp to 250bhp it was the brakes that became the biggest weak link for me. I changed the pads to EDC Red stuff but they still weren't good enough though. I didn't have the money at the time for fancy pants brakes but it definitely needed them I reckon.

[MC Bodge]

cerb4.5lee said:

When I took my 200SX from 200bhp to 250bhp it was the brakes that became the biggest weak link for me. I changed the pads to EDC Red stuff but they still weren't good enough though. I didn't have the money at the time for fancy pants brakes but it definitely needed them I reckon.

Modern cars typically have bigger, better vented, brakes, which is a better starting point.

[cerb4.5lee]

MC Bodge said:

Modern cars typically have bigger, better vented, brakes, which is a better starting point.

I was thinking that myself to be fair(I thought that the brakes in the ST would be good as standard). BMW were still struggling in the brake department though with the E92 M3 I had(made from 2007 to 2013). They were really poor in that for me(they wilted the minute you used them hard), but the F82 M4(made from 2014 to 2020) I have now though has definitely improved in the brakes department for sure.

The favourite brakes I've had were on the Cerbera and that had AP Racing brakes on it as standard, but that didn't have that much weight to stop either to be fair though.

[J4CKO]

cerb4.5lee said:

MC Bodge said:

Modern cars typically have bigger, better vented, brakes, which is a better starting point.

I was thinking that myself to be fair(I thought that the brakes in the ST would be good as standard). BMW were still struggling in the brake department though with the E92 M3 I had(made from 2007 to 2013). They were really poor in that for me(they wilted the minute you used them hard), but the F82 M4(made from 2014 to 2020) I have now though has definitely improved in the brakes department for sure.

The favourite brakes I've had were on the Cerbera and that had AP Racing brakes on it as standard, but that didn't have that much weight to stop either to be fair though.

Not experienced fade in this yet but to be fair haven't been going that fast and am mindful of the fact the fluid is probably pretty old, with another 60 bhp it might come to the fore.

The brakes are pretty decent but do need to think that 300 bhp will more quickly get the car to a higher speed and will need more stopping power and it does make it more likely to over stress the brakes. I suspect the way I drive on the road they will be ok, especially as by and large you end up stuck behind something which gives them chance to cool but I reckon a lap or two on track and they would be struggling.

Its easy to decide you need a big brake kit when you are looking at worn disks and pads, plus old fluid when really OEM or better pads/disks/fluid at the standard size is enough.

[mooseracer]

Proper OEM (not Motorcraft) disks and some decent pads work really well on the Fiesta.

No *need* for BBK unless doing a lot of track work.

[J4CKO]

mooseracer said:

Proper OEM (not Motorcraft) disks and some decent pads work really well on the Fiesta.

No *need* for BBK unless doing a lot of track work.

Yeah, seems to be the consensus, will get some ordered in the next week or two.

Was watching some YT videos on it, Jamie from Officially Gassed had one and went to 302 bhp and then 360 odd, so a good comparison.

First one, at 302,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8jZXPavwDY

Then at 363

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ypdHGZr0A


It seems to go from fast and fairly composed to a bit scrabbly and unruly, which could be fun but I think an LSD would be essential at that power.

[RC1807]

I changed my discs and pads all round last year. Ford and Motorcrat stuff was silly money. I bought Febi Bilstein kit from Autodocc.

They were a fraction of the Ford / OEM prices. I found the discs don't corrode anywhere near as quickly as Ford OEM stuff did. That makes for much quieter driving after the car's been sat for a few days, as it so often is nowadays ....

[mooseracer]

Which reminds me I have a set of Ford front disks in my shed, new and unused. If anyone wants to collect from South Glos they are welcome to them,

[J4CKO]

The synposer delete works nicely, removes a lot of the whooshing and other racket coming in, it’s ok on standard ones but tiresome in a modded one so it’s staying on.

Edited by J4CKO on Friday 4th June 16:38

[cerb4.5lee]

J4CKO said:

Was watching some YT videos on it, Jamie from Officially Gassed had one and went to 302 bhp and then 360 odd, so a good comparison.

First one, at 302,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8jZXPavwDY

Then at 363

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6ypdHGZr0A


It seems to go from fast and fairly composed to a bit scrabbly and unruly, which could be fun but I think an LSD would be essential at that power.

I enjoyed those vids and I've never watched him before. It definitely looks like great fun in either tune I reckon.