2003 BMW M3 - The New Daily
Discussion
Nunga said:
Shame you didn’t mention earlier you’d be in Stuttgart. I am just up the A8! Pretty great road trip so far.
Indeed! I could have contacted you earlier! But it's one of those things always 
. There is a little more to come about this trip however.Funnily enough, I was chatting at the Resto show at the NEC earlier to the owner an of A8. It was a good little catchup:
Believe it or not, Munich was on my agenda orignally. To go to the BMW museum
However, a few things would stop that, including:
[ul type="disc"]
[li]It being a 5 hour drive away from the Nurburgring[/li]
[li]Me only being over for a week. I wanted something to do over the holiday but not too much ; I was lazy![/li]
[li]Munich is a reasonable place to travel to another time, either via car or via the plane
.[/li][/ul]
But, Stuttgart does have its share of museums. It needs to to be frank. Not just from the perspective of the very industrial feel of the town but also this:
For those wondering, that is a warning saying that I failed to display an emissions sticker. I knew that France had these but not Germany. Upon using Google Translate, naturally, I began fretting! But, what's done has been done. Maybe I'll get my 80 Euro fine. Maybe I'll pay it if I have to drive to a clean zone again!
I won't dwell on this too much, but it probably should be covered on RR for people who want to do a road trip. So. I'll keep it very brief here. In short, if you plan to go down in a diesel "modern", there is a very good chance you'll risk being hit with an 80 Euro fine in Stuttgart. How does it work? If your diesel is Euro 4 or lower, it won't be allowed in. If your petrol car is pre-Euro emissions (think roughly 1993), you can't drive your car in. Oldtimers, where the rules seem to be ambiguous are allowed in, like the Mercedes above, with H for Historic at the end of the plate
.What did this mean? With all of my cars I would have been fine to get into the City, if I bought the badge from a TUV, DEKRA or similar centre. You can get them online too. You've been warned folks! If I had travelled in my dad's 2006 BMW 535d or a friend's 2010 Focus TDCI Estate, I'd have had to have caught public transport to the hotel, as neither would have been allowed into the city. How much longer will the M3 have before it is barred? Who knows!
But, with the emissions sticker issue, or lack of sticker problem investigated, I went on to admire the musuem
Firstly, it's not quite as impressive as the Porsche museum to look at outside, but it is more expansive
. They do also seem to circle around what cars are displayed outside from other posts I have seen. This time, it was Galander Wagon season. They were everywhere outside the place!
Who says modernism can't be combined with retroness?
Man, I adore a C111!
The museum put alot of effort into the origins of Mercedes and its foret
Yup, it seems Mercedes dabbled in aircraft amongst other things!
There are more shots to come, but i shall send them later
.So, where was I? The Mercedes Museum. There was plenty more to see :
Just look at that:
However, peering through the centre of the place reminded me there was more to come
And more still!:
This was possibly the coolest thing in the Museum, and possibly the coolest trailer! For those who don't know, this was a car transporter built to take a Mercedes 300SL along quickly to races. It even used the direct-injection engine from the 300SL to power it. Jay Leno has made one, abeit I believe with an OM603 or an OM606 instead.
I doubt the interior would be that pristine for long:
Speaking of 300SLs, there we have the original Gullwing and the Hoffman inspired roadster:
But, if I had an SL to put onto the trailer, it would have to be this factory special. I've forgotten the name of this one annoyingly! It in essence is a factory SL, but given a few more ponies and aerodynamic tricks, which really made it fly along!
There were even the celebrities cars present! One such car was the late Princess Diana's 500SL:
There was also this 190SL. It was great to see such Patina on a car; apparently, this is how the actor left it:
Want to be a dictator sir? Why not have the ex-German Government car?
From this, it went a little strange! There were many cars, including this very modified W126 used to get the most from aerodynamics to Hydrogen cell cars as well as the frankly awesome EV Hypercar:
Love to see the racers? There are plenty to admire!
The whole thing was just fantastic! Just look at this car exposed!
However, before I knew it, I had spent almost a day at the place and had to make my way back to near the Nurburgring!
Unfortunately, I hit some pretty terrible traffic on the way back. But it was fine. I had some AC, I had some Podcasts and music to listen to and I had nowhere to really be either! So, I just relaxed, waited in the traffic that took an eternity to end and finally was able to come back.
Once out and on the de-restricted autobahns, the M3 really demonstrated a few neat tricks and sort of its party piece. For all of the way I had been doing 80MPH, even on the derestricted sections. However, I had some time to make up. Here, on a few occasions I either knocked the car back a gear or I put my foot down and let the 'box do it by itself. From doing around 3000rpm, it went up a notch. With that Eventuri airbox, the car was zinging to the top it was screaming. It roared all of the way to near the redline, along with taking me fairly comfortably into three figures on the speedometer. This was part of the reason I bought the M3 over. It just went and went, and really was a superb companion. In one way, it's a grand tourer. In another, something that can demolish backroads whilst keeping a massive smile on your face, as it did going to my friend's place near the 'ring. Being partway through the week.
I do have some shots the convey the latter but that can wait with the next update.
:Just look at that:
However, peering through the centre of the place reminded me there was more to come
And more still!:
This was possibly the coolest thing in the Museum, and possibly the coolest trailer! For those who don't know, this was a car transporter built to take a Mercedes 300SL along quickly to races. It even used the direct-injection engine from the 300SL to power it. Jay Leno has made one, abeit I believe with an OM603 or an OM606 instead.
I doubt the interior would be that pristine for long:
Speaking of 300SLs, there we have the original Gullwing and the Hoffman inspired roadster
:But, if I had an SL to put onto the trailer, it would have to be this factory special. I've forgotten the name of this one annoyingly! It in essence is a factory SL, but given a few more ponies and aerodynamic tricks, which really made it fly along!
There were even the celebrities cars present! One such car was the late Princess Diana's 500SL:
There was also this 190SL. It was great to see such Patina on a car; apparently, this is how the actor left it:
Want to be a dictator sir? Why not have the ex-German Government car?
From this, it went a little strange! There were many cars, including this very modified W126 used to get the most from aerodynamics to Hydrogen cell cars as well as the frankly awesome EV Hypercar:
Love to see the racers? There are plenty to admire!
The whole thing was just fantastic! Just look at this car exposed!
However, before I knew it, I had spent almost a day at the place and had to make my way back to near the Nurburgring!
Unfortunately, I hit some pretty terrible traffic on the way back. But it was fine. I had some AC, I had some Podcasts and music to listen to and I had nowhere to really be either! So, I just relaxed, waited in the traffic that took an eternity to end and finally was able to come back.
Once out and on the de-restricted autobahns, the M3 really demonstrated a few neat tricks and sort of its party piece. For all of the way I had been doing 80MPH, even on the derestricted sections. However, I had some time to make up
. Here, on a few occasions I either knocked the car back a gear or I put my foot down and let the 'box do it by itself. From doing around 3000rpm, it went up a notch. With that Eventuri airbox, the car was zinging to the top it was screaming. It roared all of the way to near the redline, along with taking me fairly comfortably into three figures on the speedometer. This was part of the reason I bought the M3 over. It just went and went, and really was a superb companion. In one way, it's a grand tourer. In another, something that can demolish backroads whilst keeping a massive smile on your face, as it did going to my friend's place near the 'ring. Being partway through the week.I do have some shots the convey the latter but that can wait with the next update
.In my haste, I skipped a couple of bits. I just can't stay on the PC for so long these days!
The accommodation of where I stayed in Stuttgart wasn't too bad. I managed to find a place which was half of the price of the hotels and was an apartment to boot! That's not everyone's cup of tea but I do prefer this type of setting myself. At Laon, it made 'staying at home' a little easier, being a pleasant break from restaurants.
The time would come however for me to go back and here, the M3 was utterly superb. From being stuck in crappy traffic like this:
I was soon on the autobahns, going from a gentle cruise to occasionally flicking my right foot and getting some real speed out of it. My God the sound from that Eventuri was brutal! It certainly sounds more like what I expect a 6-pot to sound it. Mean, with that distinctive, almost echoing growl, just getting better as you go above 3000rpm . Just what you need on the Autobahns with some of the motorists on there!
Did this mean it was a slouch off the motorway? Not a chance. When I was pretty shot coming into Germany, it felt like I was carving my up through the backroads near Cologne, with the the feel of the car regarding its inputs not dissapointing! Grippy, quick yet refined in a manner, and just going at great pace. Having decent lights is handy on the German roads at night! It's a good job I refurbished those headlights a while back!
Finally, I arrived back at the house near the 'ring. Along with a couple of beers and some home cooked meals, I'll not lie, it was partially a lazy couple of days for me. From trying to do things initially I eventually did manage to 'switch off' and just relax, with a hot fire to keep me warm.
There would be one thing for me to checkout however. It would an early Mk1 MX-5, with an interior looking something like this.
Yup, over a stock silver MX-5, there was more to this than meets the eye. A bit different to an M3 I admit!
The accommodation of where I stayed in Stuttgart wasn't too bad. I managed to find a place which was half of the price of the hotels and was an apartment to boot! That's not everyone's cup of tea but I do prefer this type of setting myself. At Laon, it made 'staying at home' a little easier, being a pleasant break from restaurants.
The time would come however for me to go back and here, the M3 was utterly superb. From being stuck in crappy traffic like this:
I was soon on the autobahns, going from a gentle cruise to occasionally flicking my right foot and getting some real speed out of it
. My God the sound from that Eventuri was brutal! It certainly sounds more like what I expect a 6-pot to sound it. Mean, with that distinctive, almost echoing growl, just getting better as you go above 3000rpm . Just what you need on the Autobahns with some of the motorists on there!Did this mean it was a slouch off the motorway? Not a chance. When I was pretty shot coming into Germany, it felt like I was carving my up through the backroads near Cologne, with the the feel of the car regarding its inputs not dissapointing! Grippy, quick yet refined in a manner, and just going at great pace. Having decent lights is handy on the German roads at night! It's a good job I refurbished those headlights a while back!
Finally, I arrived back at the house near the 'ring. Along with a couple of beers and some home cooked meals, I'll not lie, it was partially a lazy couple of days for me. From trying to do things initially I eventually did manage to 'switch off' and just relax, with a hot fire to keep me warm.
There would be one thing for me to checkout however. It would an early Mk1 MX-5, with an interior looking something like this.
Yup, over a stock silver MX-5, there was more to this than meets the eye
. A bit different to an M3 I admit!I know what a few of you are thinking? Why on earth would a stripped out MX-5 interest me over the cars I have? The M3 grips better and is faster with both it and the Merc arguably having more class.
The truth is I have a bit of a soft spot for an MX-5. Some may claim they are boring with their superb reliability, but I would disagree. It's great to have a car that is generally reliable. Anything tends to have the odd issue go wrong once its out of the warranty people. If you enjoy driving, they're a great hoot and they have so much potential, going from the 'Teenage Dirtbag' of @Mysterymachine to the fast road orientated car like my old MX-5 was.
It's also great to try what is in theory a similar car out. On paper, both my friend's Eunos and my MX-5 are similar beasts, but this one had a few more change? What was the shopping list I hear you ask? Well, it was the following:
-Stripped out interior down to even the windows going!
-Sparco Bucket seats with 4 point harnesses
-Bilstein Coilovers all round, which appear to be B8 based
-15" NB wheels shod on Toyo CF-II wheels
-1.8 Brakes with Hawk Fast road pads
-Rebushed with SuperPro bushes I believe
-Manual Steering rack conversion, using a PAS rack.
Yes, mine had a few more tricky bits. With nothing more to add, it was time to drive this thing.
The first thing that became apparent was this car was much quieter than my old '5! I actually preferred that! Mine was awesome, make no mistake with the twin setup, but it was a bit too much for a daily! I'm surprised no neighbours of mine complained TBH as it really was that load! This car sounded more pure, and with a nice zing to the exhaust note
While it had some of the inherent scuttle shake just like mine did, the comfort of the suspension was similar to mine and possibly an improvement, which is a big surprise given that this example was on 15" wheels. The grip levels were similar to mine on the 14" Goodyear EfficientGrip Performances, but a little more pliant, which translated into a nicer road experience.
The biggest difference however was the manual 'rack conversion. The manual racks seem to have a varied reputation in the MX-5 circles with some claiming they give a more pure experience, while others say they are too slow to be of any real benefit over a PAS car. This one was heavier at slower speed. But as soon as you were over 20mph, it didn't matter. The rack conversion gave the car more steering feel and was a nicer weight at lower speed. This really made the car lovely to drive.
I suddenly wanted one all over again! It was just such a featherweight flyer, abeit no quicker than my old car. It was different to the M3! I had thoughts of buying one once I got back to the UK, until sense kicked in. I knew I only liked this one as it was clearly a very well sorted example. It has however given me the motivation to get my M3 fixed over this winter and to not hopefully get another car. Yes, they are famous last words....
The MX-5 was no fun however when I got caught in a shower however, I went from enjoying the car to feeling like a small boy who had wet himself! You can't have it all eh? It was good however to be at ease with the world.
With this, it was time to go into Adenau, which of course is the place where the half-way entrance of the Nurburgring is, as well as the Crown pub itself! With me staying this time in a room at Room4Ring, mainly as it was cheaper than getting a taxi back to the house and then needing one back again in the morning. It was good to catchup with Chris Rodger, the owner of the Crown, in addition to seeing a few locals, in addition to a couple of key folks in the modification scene. Yes, there were a couple of bulshy 'Ring heroes there, but that's part and parcel of any place really.
But enough of this. A day later, I would be back at a place where many Europeans flock to on a daily basis. Of course, I am talking about the Nurburgring. However, it would seem that a certain element would be present with me and the M3, just like it was when I did the Destination Nurburgring trip a few years ago with @maph2? I am of course talking about the rain. Would it write off the day, or would I be stupid enough to do a few laps on the well renowned and dangerous Touristfathten (Public Day for others here)?
Since I was there, I figured I may as well have a breakfast at Devil's Diner to contemplate whether I'd go out or not. There, I'd see some known faces like Misha Chaudrin of Apex Taxi and Dale Lomas who now does the Jaguar Taxi, with both a Project 8 and an i-Pace, and yes, that last car wasn't a typo! But would I venture out onto the track like they would?
The truth is I have a bit of a soft spot for an MX-5. Some may claim they are boring with their superb reliability, but I would disagree. It's great to have a car that is generally reliable. Anything tends to have the odd issue go wrong once its out of the warranty people. If you enjoy driving, they're a great hoot and they have so much potential, going from the 'Teenage Dirtbag' of @Mysterymachine to the fast road orientated car like my old MX-5 was.
It's also great to try what is in theory a similar car out. On paper, both my friend's Eunos and my MX-5 are similar beasts, but this one had a few more change? What was the shopping list I hear you ask? Well, it was the following:
-Stripped out interior down to even the windows going!
-Sparco Bucket seats with 4 point harnesses
-Bilstein Coilovers all round, which appear to be B8 based
-15" NB wheels shod on Toyo CF-II wheels
-1.8 Brakes with Hawk Fast road pads
-Rebushed with SuperPro bushes I believe
-Manual Steering rack conversion, using a PAS rack.
Yes, mine had a few more tricky bits. With nothing more to add, it was time to drive this thing.
The first thing that became apparent was this car was much quieter than my old '5! I actually preferred that! Mine was awesome, make no mistake with the twin setup, but it was a bit too much for a daily! I'm surprised no neighbours of mine complained TBH as it really was that load! This car sounded more pure, and with a nice zing to the exhaust note
While it had some of the inherent scuttle shake just like mine did, the comfort of the suspension was similar to mine and possibly an improvement, which is a big surprise given that this example was on 15" wheels. The grip levels were similar to mine on the 14" Goodyear EfficientGrip Performances, but a little more pliant, which translated into a nicer road experience.
The biggest difference however was the manual 'rack conversion. The manual racks seem to have a varied reputation in the MX-5 circles with some claiming they give a more pure experience, while others say they are too slow to be of any real benefit over a PAS car. This one was heavier at slower speed. But as soon as you were over 20mph, it didn't matter. The rack conversion gave the car more steering feel and was a nicer weight at lower speed. This really made the car lovely to drive.
I suddenly wanted one all over again! It was just such a featherweight flyer, abeit no quicker than my old car. It was different to the M3! I had thoughts of buying one once I got back to the UK, until sense kicked in. I knew I only liked this one as it was clearly a very well sorted example. It has however given me the motivation to get my M3 fixed over this winter and to not hopefully get another car. Yes, they are famous last words....
The MX-5 was no fun however when I got caught in a shower however, I went from enjoying the car to feeling like a small boy who had wet himself! You can't have it all eh? It was good however to be at ease with the world.
With this, it was time to go into Adenau, which of course is the place where the half-way entrance of the Nurburgring is, as well as the Crown pub itself! With me staying this time in a room at Room4Ring, mainly as it was cheaper than getting a taxi back to the house and then needing one back again in the morning. It was good to catchup with Chris Rodger, the owner of the Crown, in addition to seeing a few locals, in addition to a couple of key folks in the modification scene. Yes, there were a couple of bulshy 'Ring heroes there, but that's part and parcel of any place really.
But enough of this. A day later, I would be back at a place where many Europeans flock to on a daily basis. Of course, I am talking about the Nurburgring. However, it would seem that a certain element would be present with me and the M3, just like it was when I did the Destination Nurburgring trip a few years ago with @maph2? I am of course talking about the rain. Would it write off the day, or would I be stupid enough to do a few laps on the well renowned and dangerous Touristfathten (Public Day for others here)?
Since I was there, I figured I may as well have a breakfast at Devil's Diner to contemplate whether I'd go out or not. There, I'd see some known faces like Misha Chaudrin of Apex Taxi and Dale Lomas who now does the Jaguar Taxi, with both a Project 8 and an i-Pace, and yes, that last car wasn't a typo! But would I venture out onto the track like they would?
Driving the Nurburgring in the wet isn't the smartest thing to do. Take the dry line and you can very easily bin the car in the barrier, even at low speeds, as a result of rubber being depleted on the surface, cause an 'oil like' surface.
What's more, the last time I took my M3 there, it rained as well! Is the M3 not destined to do a dry day at the 'ring?
What's more, I did the last trackdays with DN, a place where you get briefings, stricter policies on people being idiots, and more crucially, potentially a cheaper crash should the worst happen. So, would I go ahead and venture onto a TouristFahten lap, despite the obvious risks, as declared in this Drivetribe article?.
Well, only a fool or an Englishman who do that. Some would say I qualify for both, so yes, I did. What the hell, I figured? How bad can it be?
Truthfully? Not great:
It was apparently a little foggy when I went down, so the track was closed, albeit the staff stated they were monitoring the situation.I mystelf couldn't see the fog from the Dottinger straight in the car park, but I could believe it ; the Nurburgring has some pretty serious elavations present on it, which in the summer can really test a cooling system. In the case of wet weather, that can make things a little foggy!
While I was waiting in the car park, I saw a few interesting cars; some which you expect to see, and others which you don't. One being a regular at the 'ring. An E46 M3 pickup truck. Like it or lump it, it's a different car for sure!
As you can tell, there were a few BMWs in the car park, and one of them was this. A curious looking BMW E30 318iS, which I'll come back to later.
What's more, there is a new Nurburgring Taxi in town. This time, a fully Electric Jaguar i-Pace! It's something I'm eager to give a go. At 150 Euros a lap with 2 of your mates to come along while being driven by seasoned regular, Dale Lomas, it's certainly something worth trying I suspect if a few of you go along. Regarding Dale's driving, it's not what you'd call slow, as this video shows from when he took me and a couple of mates out in a BMW F80 M3:
Obviously, if you want the noise and thrills then they do have the XE based Project 8 to try.
But, all this mincing around wasn't going to last long. Eventually, the siren was cast on the Tannoy to confirm that the track was now open. Gone was the red "Track Closed" sign, and in came the Green "open" sign. There was only one thing left to do. Try the track!
I'll not lie! I was a bit of a wimp! As a wise man once said "You shouldn't drive or a laptime on the 'ring in the wet. The main aim is to get around in one piece". And so I gently and gingerly went around, taking a 'wet' line for most of it. With the second lap, I had a little more of a feel for the circuit and so I pushed a little more. Yes, the DSC light did come on occasionally but generally it was fine. However, I noticed something. The 'ring was quiet! If you go back to that Pickup photo, you'll notice just how empty the car park was! Oh, no, it's that bad! Or is it?
There is another way to look at the 'ring. It's quieter by 80% in comparison to a dry day, alot of the track time setters with zero consideration for other users (read idiots) are gone, and the quality of driving seems to improve. I know Darren Langeveld of DN said on the wet day I did two years ago that almost no one crashed that day at the 'ring, but it was quiet. It seems that was present here too, despite a lack of briefings etc. The other thing? Quick lap times and safe driving on all tracks come with track knowledge, with the Nurburgring demonstrating this very well! This wasn't a crap load of laps, it was a great set of learning laps! With that in mind, I settle down, enjoying hearing that S54 engine howl and growl its way through the Eiffel, and made the most of the situation.
It would then come to the final lap. Here, I had a bit more of a feel for the car and went a little quicker now I was a little familiar, and still very much a 'ring Virgin (don't snigger you lot!) in terms of lap experience. I for once was actually overtaking other cars, with permission of course, and was really enjoying the circuit! Eventually, I caught up with this chap:
Yup, this is the same 318iS I talked about before. I could have overtaken him on the straights, but in the corners he had such a way about him! Yes, he was drifting in a few of the corners, but the car had such grace, such smoothness and control, and so I followed him and made it my aim to do that around the track. It actually made for a really enjoyable experience! Yes, I could have gone faster, but like my time at Spa, it's these moments which make trackdays a bit of fun! Despite the conditions, it was a very enjoyable lap:
As you can tell in previous photos, we caught up in the car park. At that point we chatted for a bit with as one motoring presenter put it, a mutual admiration. Him admiring my car and the engine within it; E46 M3s aren't quite as cheap as they are over here, due to their perception of old car value. Simultaneusly, I was admiring the skill of the car being driven as well as his 318iS, a car I have wanted for quite some time, before they started climbing in price!
The car itself was a stripped out beast with a beefier uprated shifter fitted, a set of bucket seats and a rollcage. Oh, and some Toyo R888Rs as the photo above shows. We discussed the wet 'ring driving benefits as I discussed above, with him citing the lower numbers; I didn't realise how much lower they were! Eventually, he offered to take me out for a lap. Would I really go for a passenger lap with a bloke who was drifting around the circuit and on dry biased tyres? Sure, what's the worst that can happen?
Well, quite alot! Going in his 318iS with that M44 really made me wonder why I never bought one. Sure, it didn't have the pace of the bigger 6 pots but it seemed reasonable enough. The engine, whilst being a 4 banger, sounded great, and the car had a surprising amount of control! This driver was very smooth behind the wheel. He showed me where the dry line bad spots were around the circuit and where the dry line could be taken in the wet, due to resurfacing taking place. Even the change of tarmac was demonstrated! From braking straight and true the car about 2 seconds late snapped into what seemed like a spin, only for him to straighten the car out. No drama, no hassle. With him talking through the throttle inputs, with it sometimes being as low as 10% to get a drift on some iffy corners, it was like watching a Nurburgring Masterclass in action.
At the end, we parted as friends I and I went back to my friend's house. After all, as a Star Trek Episode once said, All Good Things must end. Or something like that. I had a train to catch!
For what was a week of a holiday, it certainly seemed great! It was around the first time in quite some time I managed to 'switch' off and see some great things, albeit bland to some people. Will I go back? You bet!
There was only one more thing left to do. Get back home. But not without supplies. And weather. But more on that later.
What's more, the last time I took my M3 there, it rained as well! Is the M3 not destined to do a dry day at the 'ring?
What's more, I did the last trackdays with DN, a place where you get briefings, stricter policies on people being idiots, and more crucially, potentially a cheaper crash should the worst happen. So, would I go ahead and venture onto a TouristFahten lap, despite the obvious risks, as declared in this Drivetribe article?.
Well, only a fool or an Englishman who do that. Some would say I qualify for both, so yes, I did. What the hell, I figured? How bad can it be?
Truthfully? Not great:
It was apparently a little foggy when I went down, so the track was closed, albeit the staff stated they were monitoring the situation.I mystelf couldn't see the fog from the Dottinger straight in the car park, but I could believe it ; the Nurburgring has some pretty serious elavations present on it, which in the summer can really test a cooling system. In the case of wet weather, that can make things a little foggy!
While I was waiting in the car park, I saw a few interesting cars; some which you expect to see, and others which you don't. One being a regular at the 'ring. An E46 M3 pickup truck. Like it or lump it, it's a different car for sure!
As you can tell, there were a few BMWs in the car park, and one of them was this. A curious looking BMW E30 318iS, which I'll come back to later.
What's more, there is a new Nurburgring Taxi in town. This time, a fully Electric Jaguar i-Pace! It's something I'm eager to give a go. At 150 Euros a lap with 2 of your mates to come along while being driven by seasoned regular, Dale Lomas, it's certainly something worth trying I suspect if a few of you go along. Regarding Dale's driving, it's not what you'd call slow, as this video shows from when he took me and a couple of mates out in a BMW F80 M3:
Obviously, if you want the noise and thrills then they do have the XE based Project 8 to try.
But, all this mincing around wasn't going to last long. Eventually, the siren was cast on the Tannoy to confirm that the track was now open. Gone was the red "Track Closed" sign, and in came the Green "open" sign. There was only one thing left to do. Try the track!
I'll not lie! I was a bit of a wimp! As a wise man once said "You shouldn't drive or a laptime on the 'ring in the wet. The main aim is to get around in one piece". And so I gently and gingerly went around, taking a 'wet' line for most of it. With the second lap, I had a little more of a feel for the circuit and so I pushed a little more. Yes, the DSC light did come on occasionally but generally it was fine. However, I noticed something. The 'ring was quiet! If you go back to that Pickup photo, you'll notice just how empty the car park was! Oh, no, it's that bad! Or is it?
There is another way to look at the 'ring. It's quieter by 80% in comparison to a dry day, alot of the track time setters with zero consideration for other users (read idiots) are gone, and the quality of driving seems to improve. I know Darren Langeveld of DN said on the wet day I did two years ago that almost no one crashed that day at the 'ring, but it was quiet. It seems that was present here too, despite a lack of briefings etc. The other thing? Quick lap times and safe driving on all tracks come with track knowledge, with the Nurburgring demonstrating this very well! This wasn't a crap load of laps, it was a great set of learning laps! With that in mind, I settle down, enjoying hearing that S54 engine howl and growl its way through the Eiffel, and made the most of the situation.
It would then come to the final lap. Here, I had a bit more of a feel for the car and went a little quicker now I was a little familiar, and still very much a 'ring Virgin (don't snigger you lot!) in terms of lap experience. I for once was actually overtaking other cars, with permission of course, and was really enjoying the circuit! Eventually, I caught up with this chap:
Yup, this is the same 318iS I talked about before. I could have overtaken him on the straights, but in the corners he had such a way about him! Yes, he was drifting in a few of the corners, but the car had such grace, such smoothness and control, and so I followed him and made it my aim to do that around the track. It actually made for a really enjoyable experience! Yes, I could have gone faster, but like my time at Spa, it's these moments which make trackdays a bit of fun! Despite the conditions, it was a very enjoyable lap:
As you can tell in previous photos, we caught up in the car park. At that point we chatted for a bit with as one motoring presenter put it, a mutual admiration. Him admiring my car and the engine within it; E46 M3s aren't quite as cheap as they are over here, due to their perception of old car value. Simultaneusly, I was admiring the skill of the car being driven as well as his 318iS, a car I have wanted for quite some time, before they started climbing in price!
The car itself was a stripped out beast with a beefier uprated shifter fitted, a set of bucket seats and a rollcage. Oh, and some Toyo R888Rs as the photo above shows. We discussed the wet 'ring driving benefits as I discussed above, with him citing the lower numbers; I didn't realise how much lower they were! Eventually, he offered to take me out for a lap. Would I really go for a passenger lap with a bloke who was drifting around the circuit and on dry biased tyres? Sure, what's the worst that can happen?
Well, quite alot! Going in his 318iS with that M44 really made me wonder why I never bought one. Sure, it didn't have the pace of the bigger 6 pots but it seemed reasonable enough. The engine, whilst being a 4 banger, sounded great, and the car had a surprising amount of control! This driver was very smooth behind the wheel. He showed me where the dry line bad spots were around the circuit and where the dry line could be taken in the wet, due to resurfacing taking place. Even the change of tarmac was demonstrated! From braking straight and true the car about 2 seconds late snapped into what seemed like a spin, only for him to straighten the car out. No drama, no hassle. With him talking through the throttle inputs, with it sometimes being as low as 10% to get a drift on some iffy corners, it was like watching a Nurburgring Masterclass in action.
At the end, we parted as friends I and I went back to my friend's house. After all, as a Star Trek Episode once said, All Good Things must end. Or something like that. I had a train to catch!
For what was a week of a holiday, it certainly seemed great! It was around the first time in quite some time I managed to 'switch' off and see some great things, albeit bland to some people. Will I go back? You bet!
There was only one more thing left to do. Get back home. But not without supplies. And weather. But more on that later.
So, I've left this tale off the table for a while. Why?
Who wants to go back home after a atrip? When I started going on holidays, maybe, for the return of my then perceived reality. But these days, I wish for the hacienda to never end! Keep it everlong! But with nice toys comes bills and with bills comes a means of how to pay for them, to earn my keep. With that in mind, I figured I should best stock up.
After the 'ring, I went to this place:
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://www.eifelzeitung.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/74541-13-rewe1_04_13.jpg"]
While the UK is relatively cheap on beer to compared to our Scandanavian friends, the Germans seem to do the European stuff cheaper than the UK offerings back at home! But, at least @maph2 appreciated the delivery!
[img src="http://img.retro-rides.org/i/v/chasr/b73886bfd1d7.jpg" style="max-width:100%;"]
Yes, the boot was in a state, but at least it would form some padding!
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://img.retro-rides.org/i/v/chasr/3c1d325d7338.jpg"]
It was then time to leave the humble abode just outside the Nurburgring
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/74583322_10156343044445843_5316549941940715520_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_oc=AQkjpHb3L_6M4Y51g3ct2lHralVlhTXTVRCDnHIQrW-CdYrUgDqjr8CLCCUnsHoMhwk&_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.xx&oh=f5bce1094e5445f96bd5ef7fbafeac4b&oe=5ED64439"]
It's funny. I've never really done a solo holiday somewhere ever really. But it was nice to gain a bit of headspace, especially after the busy year! I almost came to appreciate it! With that in mind, there was nothing left to do, but to start the drive back:
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://img.retro-rides.org/i/v/chasr/4424d438936a.jpg"]
With the sweeping and relatively quiet country roads, it really was an enjoyable trip back. Until I hit the motorway...
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://img.retro-rides.org/i/v/chasr/0045c272e4a9.jpg"]
Yup, it was super wet, and sketchy to say the least! But I have some music, podcasts and so on, and thus I kept on going. Eventually I'd hit the Netherlands and Belgium where the roads would become much busier as it would seem the speed cameras too! Damn, the Europeans love a rader speed trap!
[img style="max-width:100%;" src="http://img.retro-rides.org/i/v/chasr/087fc71d5717.jpg"]
It's funny, I've done this trip a few times now and driven a few cars abroad. The good old M3 however was surprisingly good. The seats are not perfect but superb for long journeys over other seats. With the induction roar, it has the noises to keep you entertained. With the CarPlay addition, it really has been a great companion. At 30MPG, the fuel economy wasn't too taxing either! Before I knew it, I turned up at the Eurotunnel, and it was time for the return trip.
It was certainly a different kind of holiday for me, but a great one. I'm glad I got to sample Europe for possibly the last hassle-free time. I had opportunities to do more trips like this years ago, but I never embarked on it! Money was always what stopped me, or a lack of it! But at least I had the chance now.
On that note, here's to more RRers getting out and about. Yes, there are always barriers, but its worth sometimes dissolving them and going with the flow. By God, I'm glad I did for that trip!
Since the roadtrip thread above, the car managed to get a bit of a rest over the winter. After driving the MX-5 which was a sorted example, I made it my task to make this car great in certain areas. Those areas included the mild vibration this car has had since I bought it and the infamous M-Clunk. For years, I thought this was down to a bad centre bearing and Guibo. However, I would have a few curveballs thrown along the way.
Considering I started this job on the 23rd December, I've still bee pushing on with the job! I sure am taking a little too much time! But as with all things, a few things have caused this:
[ul type="disc"]
[li]Other commitments around Xmas: Friends coming back, and a first Xmas with my brother-in-law ; that was very good[/li]
[li]Me being unsure on some parts and getting clarity ; just putting it together would not be good enough[/li]
[li]Parts holdups ; this was inevitable[/li]
[li]A poor excuse ; space ; you really need to plan how to make the best use of the little space you have ; The driveway/mini-store days were easier here![/li]
[/ul]
First thing to do was to raise the car. I semi-wished I put the front of the car up as well not not just chock it. But without a second person to watch me as the car jacked up on the rear stands and being in a confined workshop, I stuck with just one set of axle stands:
With it being Xmas time, I would work on it now and again, and so I came back the next time and removed the first item on the car. The exhaust. Because someone had been at the clamps at the backbox, prior to my ownership, I'd end up taking the entire system off as one, and then splitting it there and then. After all, space is tight and I couldn't just drag the system behind the car; a VW Beetle lives behind it.
Splitting the back box off from the centre took more time than I thought, due to the fixings getting mixed up on the exhaust hangers when I removed those ; as a result, some fixings had more corrosion than I bargained for due to to the misapplication of bolt use ; I put copper bolts on originally to get around a rust issue.
Then there was the matter of the clamps that hold the backbox onto the centre section. Mine had previously been bodged. To describe how they work, this X8R video demonstrates how the two parts come together but using their clamps while another video here explains how the clamps work and some of the issues arise,
Basically, the 1 piece clamps go on at the factory and the exhaust joining flanges (quiet at the back!) are then flared, meaning that the clamp is now part of the exhaust system. A few issues arise from doing this:
[ul type="disc"]
[li]If the clamps go bad like mine had at some point, BMW's answer will be buy a new exhaust system[/li]
[li]A few years ago, not many options were available ; the only one available was the i6 clamps, but with issues.[/li]
[li]Due to the above, garages and people went about repairing them differently. The Peugeot-style clamps, which I believe DannyDC2 has used on his, while being cheap (£6 with no gasket vs. the £50 X8R kit with gaskets etc), can do more harm than damage and actually don't clamp the system up as intended ; Other people weld them up so the mid section and backbox are one, which is the only choice when the flares are rotten[/li]
[/ul]
Mine?
Someone had noticed the clamps were corroding. So they ground back the bad metal in the clamps and welded the clamps up. On one side, where the pipe doesn't have a flare on, but a sleeve instead, they didn't put the gasket in ; that's all the other clamp supports, not the pipe. Mine always had a minor blow as a result, but only went cold. However, splitting around the rusty bolts would be time consuming to say the least! But I did get there eventually.
Thankfully, the flares on my system were fine. But the weld on the mid-section from where the clamp was welded to the exhaust so as to bring it together would have to be ground off at a later time:
Once the system was split, I'd have nothing left to do, besides clean up the exhaust pipes so some factory-esque clamps could be used. I plan to use the X8R clamps, which seem to be a proven solution. They're not cheap at £50 delivered, but then again, it's cheaper than another exhaust, still allows for the removal of various parts easily, and being stainless, should hopefully last a while. They did also come with the olive joint and gasket to seal that joint. Who said M-ownership was cheap?
With this in mind, I moved one of the cars out of the unit, and began cutting up the clamps off the exhaust, in addition to carefully removing the welds from the mid-section:
Some of those clamps just felt apart when the grinder touched them! Finally, they were off!
Simultaneously, I noticed that my catalytic converter-to-downpipe joints had re-used gaskets ; this car along with a friend's M3 ; always had when warming up especially, bit of a strange noise from the midd of the exhaust, like some resonance at certain RPMs. If this issue is like Peugeots previously, where it seems the gaskets can semi-vibrate, if they are pattern gaskets or simply worn, I can see this being the case. However, the gaskets were nightmare to get off the downpipe joints, but I eventually got them off. Note how they are deformed; The ripped sections are down to me; I would have to do that to liberate the seized on gaskets from the downpipes.
Finally, I would start on the original job I had in mind, the propshaft. I was in for a bit of a surprise!
The guibo was not as bad as I was expecting. Yes, it had cracking/perishing and minor rust marks around the sleeves, but otherwise, it was reasonable. The centre bearing was also a similar deal ; It was worn and 'spinning too freely' like the worn bearing feeling with a slight rattle sound coming from the bearings. The rubber surround was also perished, but again not so bad.
The CV joint however, caught me out. It had a small amount of play in it, but I knew I had heard that noise for a long time on the car, the 'clunk', or M-Clunk as fans call it. When I came to take it off, I noticed there was CV grease around the joint, which I initially thought was the diff. When the CV joint was on the bench, I could see a few issues. The grease was like water inside it almost, and the gasket these are meant to use to keep the CV grease in was now missing. Yes, this is a little annoying, given the joint was possibly disconnected when the boot floor was done. Who knows?
As a result, I would then have to make a decision. Go with a new CV joint, at quite a cost, or repack the old one and hope for the best? At the time, I had varying opinions of what to do!
Considering I started this job on the 23rd December, I've still bee pushing on with the job! I sure am taking a little too much time! But as with all things, a few things have caused this:
[ul type="disc"]
[li]Other commitments around Xmas: Friends coming back, and a first Xmas with my brother-in-law ; that was very good[/li]
[li]Me being unsure on some parts and getting clarity ; just putting it together would not be good enough[/li]
[li]Parts holdups ; this was inevitable[/li]
[li]A poor excuse ; space ; you really need to plan how to make the best use of the little space you have ; The driveway/mini-store days were easier here![/li]
[/ul]
First thing to do was to raise the car. I semi-wished I put the front of the car up as well not not just chock it. But without a second person to watch me as the car jacked up on the rear stands and being in a confined workshop, I stuck with just one set of axle stands:
With it being Xmas time, I would work on it now and again, and so I came back the next time and removed the first item on the car. The exhaust. Because someone had been at the clamps at the backbox, prior to my ownership, I'd end up taking the entire system off as one, and then splitting it there and then. After all, space is tight and I couldn't just drag the system behind the car; a VW Beetle lives behind it.
Splitting the back box off from the centre took more time than I thought, due to the fixings getting mixed up on the exhaust hangers when I removed those ; as a result, some fixings had more corrosion than I bargained for due to to the misapplication of bolt use ; I put copper bolts on originally to get around a rust issue.
Then there was the matter of the clamps that hold the backbox onto the centre section. Mine had previously been bodged. To describe how they work, this X8R video demonstrates how the two parts come together but using their clamps while another video here explains how the clamps work and some of the issues arise,
Basically, the 1 piece clamps go on at the factory and the exhaust joining flanges (quiet at the back!) are then flared, meaning that the clamp is now part of the exhaust system. A few issues arise from doing this:
[ul type="disc"]
[li]If the clamps go bad like mine had at some point, BMW's answer will be buy a new exhaust system[/li]
[li]A few years ago, not many options were available ; the only one available was the i6 clamps, but with issues.[/li]
[li]Due to the above, garages and people went about repairing them differently. The Peugeot-style clamps, which I believe DannyDC2 has used on his, while being cheap (£6 with no gasket vs. the £50 X8R kit with gaskets etc), can do more harm than damage and actually don't clamp the system up as intended ; Other people weld them up so the mid section and backbox are one, which is the only choice when the flares are rotten[/li]
[/ul]
Mine?
Someone had noticed the clamps were corroding. So they ground back the bad metal in the clamps and welded the clamps up. On one side, where the pipe doesn't have a flare on, but a sleeve instead, they didn't put the gasket in ; that's all the other clamp supports, not the pipe. Mine always had a minor blow as a result, but only went cold. However, splitting around the rusty bolts would be time consuming to say the least! But I did get there eventually.
Thankfully, the flares on my system were fine. But the weld on the mid-section from where the clamp was welded to the exhaust so as to bring it together would have to be ground off at a later time:
Once the system was split, I'd have nothing left to do, besides clean up the exhaust pipes so some factory-esque clamps could be used. I plan to use the X8R clamps, which seem to be a proven solution. They're not cheap at £50 delivered, but then again, it's cheaper than another exhaust, still allows for the removal of various parts easily, and being stainless, should hopefully last a while. They did also come with the olive joint and gasket to seal that joint. Who said M-ownership was cheap?
With this in mind, I moved one of the cars out of the unit, and began cutting up the clamps off the exhaust, in addition to carefully removing the welds from the mid-section:
Some of those clamps just felt apart when the grinder touched them! Finally, they were off!
Simultaneously, I noticed that my catalytic converter-to-downpipe joints had re-used gaskets ; this car along with a friend's M3 ; always had when warming up especially, bit of a strange noise from the midd of the exhaust, like some resonance at certain RPMs. If this issue is like Peugeots previously, where it seems the gaskets can semi-vibrate, if they are pattern gaskets or simply worn, I can see this being the case. However, the gaskets were nightmare to get off the downpipe joints, but I eventually got them off. Note how they are deformed; The ripped sections are down to me; I would have to do that to liberate the seized on gaskets from the downpipes.
Finally, I would start on the original job I had in mind, the propshaft. I was in for a bit of a surprise!
The guibo was not as bad as I was expecting. Yes, it had cracking/perishing and minor rust marks around the sleeves, but otherwise, it was reasonable. The centre bearing was also a similar deal ; It was worn and 'spinning too freely' like the worn bearing feeling with a slight rattle sound coming from the bearings. The rubber surround was also perished, but again not so bad.
The CV joint however, caught me out. It had a small amount of play in it, but I knew I had heard that noise for a long time on the car, the 'clunk', or M-Clunk as fans call it. When I came to take it off, I noticed there was CV grease around the joint, which I initially thought was the diff. When the CV joint was on the bench, I could see a few issues. The grease was like water inside it almost, and the gasket these are meant to use to keep the CV grease in was now missing. Yes, this is a little annoying, given the joint was possibly disconnected when the boot floor was done. Who knows?
As a result, I would then have to make a decision. Go with a new CV joint, at quite a cost, or repack the old one and hope for the best? At the time, I had varying opinions of what to do!
Hi! Apologies for hijacking your amazing thread for personal gain, but I've got a quick question that I think you might be able to help me with! I found your thread as I am looking to put a new HVAC relocation panel in, as the original one on mine has so many scratches in the rubber coating of the ashtray.
I'm having the same issues as a lot of people seem to have - which part # to choose! There's a big price difference between the two.
I've established (with your thread's help) that 51167001411 is for cars with the smoker's package (mine came with that), and 51167001409 is for the non-smokers pack.
My question is, can I put 51167001409 in a car that came with the smoker's pack? As it is way cheaper, like you said here (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1599460&i=120). You also said that either will fit - so just wanted to check that is definitely true, and there's no bodging or cutting to make the non-smoker's version fit?
Also did the non-smokers version come with a nice little storage compartment, or just an empty space?
Thanks for any help - and what a car your M3 is! I wish I had the skills and the money to renovate one myself. My 330ci will have to do for now!
I'm having the same issues as a lot of people seem to have - which part # to choose! There's a big price difference between the two.
I've established (with your thread's help) that 51167001411 is for cars with the smoker's package (mine came with that), and 51167001409 is for the non-smokers pack.
My question is, can I put 51167001409 in a car that came with the smoker's pack? As it is way cheaper, like you said here (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1599460&i=120). You also said that either will fit - so just wanted to check that is definitely true, and there's no bodging or cutting to make the non-smoker's version fit?
Also did the non-smokers version come with a nice little storage compartment, or just an empty space?
Thanks for any help - and what a car your M3 is! I wish I had the skills and the money to renovate one myself. My 330ci will have to do for now!
georgerobertson said:
Hi! Apologies for hijacking your amazing thread for personal gain, but I've got a quick question that I think you might be able to help me with! I found your thread as I am looking to put a new HVAC relocation panel in, as the original one on mine has so many scratches in the rubber coating of the ashtray.
I'm having the same issues as a lot of people seem to have - which part # to choose! There's a big price difference between the two.
I've established (with your thread's help) that 51167001411 is for cars with the smoker's package (mine came with that), and 51167001409 is for the non-smokers pack.
My question is, can I put 51167001409 in a car that came with the smoker's pack? As it is way cheaper, like you said here (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1599460&i=120). You also said that either will fit - so just wanted to check that is definitely true, and there's no bodging or cutting to make the non-smoker's version fit?
Also did the non-smokers version come with a nice little storage compartment, or just an empty space?
Thanks for any help - and what a car your M3 is! I wish I had the skills and the money to renovate one myself. My 330ci will have to do for now!
Hi,I'm having the same issues as a lot of people seem to have - which part # to choose! There's a big price difference between the two.
I've established (with your thread's help) that 51167001411 is for cars with the smoker's package (mine came with that), and 51167001409 is for the non-smokers pack.
My question is, can I put 51167001409 in a car that came with the smoker's pack? As it is way cheaper, like you said here (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1599460&i=120). You also said that either will fit - so just wanted to check that is definitely true, and there's no bodging or cutting to make the non-smoker's version fit?
Also did the non-smokers version come with a nice little storage compartment, or just an empty space?
Thanks for any help - and what a car your M3 is! I wish I had the skills and the money to renovate one myself. My 330ci will have to do for now!
In short,
Yes, the 409 part will fit with zero cutting required anywhere. It will be missing a light window in the side of it, and the old ashtray "tray" from your old part will transfer from your 'smokers' part to the new one. Otherwise you'll just have an empty space but a contained one built into the new part
.You'll also have to transfer over the cigar lighter. But given it's miles cheaper, it's well worth doing
.Many thanks for the praise
.A few other things however, would catch me out
Firstly, the exhaust, but I've covered how that was a pain.
The second, the CV. I never knew that was the source of the noise. With that in mind, I went out spunked a small fortune on a new one from BMW. How much? £200. For a CV! Sounds alot until you bear in mind most pattern ones were £130 and a decent vendor was selling a 'decent' pattern item for £180. I didn't want to take any chances, and seeing that only GKN have the given to licence to only BMW to sell them, off I went to buy another one. I also bought some Redline CV2 grease. This has varied reviews, but seeing the success @pinderwagon has seen from it I thought, just do it.
For those wondering, the part number between the old CV and the new CV is the same, despite BMW giving different numbers for both assemblies. However, the CV boot has changed in design ; it's larger and longer on the later number; this seems to have come in for the last of the line M3s and the Z4Ms, the only BMWs this CV seems to be fitted to.
With this in mind, I packed the CV. I struggled to do the other side as the cover was on. Will it be fine? We'll soon find out. I hate packing CVs, but it's a messy job that has to be done.
So, what about the guibo? That wasn't bad, but it had some evidence of cracking badly:
However, after enough effort the prop was rebuilt and ready to go into the car.
Thankfully, it's now in, complete with new bolts and nuts! BUT, the braces needed some care and attention and in some cases, replacement! Who said M3s were too modern? These braces looked like they had come out of the North Sea and I know I'm not the first person to change them!
The plates don't look too bad until you look carefully at the line in the left hand plate? That line? It was actually a hole!
Firstly, the exhaust, but I've covered how that was a pain.
The second, the CV. I never knew that was the source of the noise. With that in mind, I went out spunked a small fortune on a new one from BMW. How much? £200. For a CV! Sounds alot until you bear in mind most pattern ones were £130 and a decent vendor was selling a 'decent' pattern item for £180. I didn't want to take any chances, and seeing that only GKN have the given to licence to only BMW to sell them, off I went to buy another one. I also bought some Redline CV2 grease. This has varied reviews, but seeing the success @pinderwagon has seen from it I thought, just do it
.For those wondering, the part number between the old CV and the new CV is the same, despite BMW giving different numbers for both assemblies. However, the CV boot has changed in design ; it's larger and longer on the later number; this seems to have come in for the last of the line M3s and the Z4Ms, the only BMWs this CV seems to be fitted to.
With this in mind, I packed the CV. I struggled to do the other side as the cover was on. Will it be fine? We'll soon find out. I hate packing CVs, but it's a messy job that has to be done.
So, what about the guibo? That wasn't bad, but it had some evidence of cracking badly:
However, after enough effort the prop was rebuilt and ready to go into the car.
Thankfully, it's now in, complete with new bolts and nuts! BUT, the braces needed some care and attention and in some cases, replacement! Who said M3s were too modern? These braces looked like they had come out of the North Sea and I know I'm not the first person to change them!
The plates don't look too bad until you look carefully at the line in the left hand plate? That line? It was actually a hole!
It seems crazy that this car has now been off the road for a month! But I guess if you start going a little too keen in some areas, this is inevitable. 1 month off the road just to change a few propshaft components? It's a little silly! But I guess the 'while you are there' jobs have got the better of me.
With that in mind, more parts arrived for the recommissioning. The first thing for me to touch was the V-Brace. Given that these are just over £80 from BMW I do wonder why I would do what I'll now show. Basically, I went to take all of the rust off like above with a wire wheel, then treat the pitted/suspect areas prior to painting it. For the rust treatment, I used Bilt Hamber/s Hydrate 80:
I know, it's nothing much exciting to look at! In one shot, it looks like I spilled Blueberry milkshake over it. In the next, it looks like it could be a prop for the Blue Men in Arrested Development! We shall see if my treatment of then sanding this once I've given the product the 24 hours required for it to cure, zinc/etch primer with a stonechip on top will suffice.
Obviously, I didn't stand around watching the V-Brace become a Blue Men prop! I had things to do ; I still have the M3 on axle stands. Thus, I laid out the addition of new parts on the bench, consisting on a new brace no.2, nuts and bolts and a mini spray box so as to paint up some of the nuts and bolts on the car.
With me poking the old brace a little more, it became appaerant that even with zero screwdriver poking and just poking by hand, albeit with firm pressure, the panel had seen better days. The new panels weren't the cheapest for pressed bits of steel, but hopefully it will spruce the underside up a little!
With these panels ready, I then went to prepare the downpipe flanges and fit on the new gaskets
With this done, it was time to put on the centre section. Weighing over 10kg, it wasn't the easiest system to put into position while underneath the car, but I did manage somehow!
I think you'll agree the underside is looking OK under there
What's left now? Not alot, hopfully. The backbox will be the next thing to go on, but I may have a plan for that. Furthermore, I need a new exhaust mount, where a friend is willing to provide me a new unused item he has from my his ex-M3 days. It's a little annoying that one of the mounts has ripped, given that it's one of the very first parts I've changed 4 years ago. Am I being a little hash about them given they have lasted 4 years carrying a 24kg backbox? Possibly.
But, at least there are less parts on the unit floor, which is always a good thing.
With that in mind, more parts arrived for the recommissioning. The first thing for me to touch was the V-Brace. Given that these are just over £80 from BMW I do wonder why I would do what I'll now show. Basically, I went to take all of the rust off like above with a wire wheel, then treat the pitted/suspect areas prior to painting it. For the rust treatment, I used Bilt Hamber/s Hydrate 80:
I know, it's nothing much exciting to look at! In one shot, it looks like I spilled Blueberry milkshake over it. In the next, it looks like it could be a prop for the Blue Men in Arrested Development! We shall see if my treatment of then sanding this once I've given the product the 24 hours required for it to cure, zinc/etch primer with a stonechip on top will suffice.
Obviously, I didn't stand around watching the V-Brace become a Blue Men prop! I had things to do ; I still have the M3 on axle stands. Thus, I laid out the addition of new parts on the bench, consisting on a new brace no.2, nuts and bolts and a mini spray box so as to paint up some of the nuts and bolts on the car.
With me poking the old brace a little more, it became appaerant that even with zero screwdriver poking and just poking by hand, albeit with firm pressure, the panel had seen better days. The new panels weren't the cheapest for pressed bits of steel, but hopefully it will spruce the underside up a little!
With these panels ready, I then went to prepare the downpipe flanges and fit on the new gaskets
With this done, it was time to put on the centre section. Weighing over 10kg, it wasn't the easiest system to put into position while underneath the car, but I did manage somehow!
I think you'll agree the underside is looking OK under there
What's left now? Not alot, hopfully. The backbox will be the next thing to go on, but I may have a plan for that
. Furthermore, I need a new exhaust mount, where a friend is willing to provide me a new unused item he has from my his ex-M3 days. It's a little annoying that one of the mounts has ripped, given that it's one of the very first parts I've changed 4 years ago. Am I being a little hash about them given they have lasted 4 years carrying a 24kg backbox? Possibly.But, at least there are less parts on the unit floor, which is always a good thing
.SebringMan said:
georgerobertson said:
Hi! Apologies for hijacking your amazing thread for personal gain, but I've got a quick question that I think you might be able to help me with! I found your thread as I am looking to put a new HVAC relocation panel in, as the original one on mine has so many scratches in the rubber coating of the ashtray.
I'm having the same issues as a lot of people seem to have - which part # to choose! There's a big price difference between the two.
I've established (with your thread's help) that 51167001411 is for cars with the smoker's package (mine came with that), and 51167001409 is for the non-smokers pack.
My question is, can I put 51167001409 in a car that came with the smoker's pack? As it is way cheaper, like you said here (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1599460&i=120). You also said that either will fit - so just wanted to check that is definitely true, and there's no bodging or cutting to make the non-smoker's version fit?
Also did the non-smokers version come with a nice little storage compartment, or just an empty space?
Thanks for any help - and what a car your M3 is! I wish I had the skills and the money to renovate one myself. My 330ci will have to do for now!
Hi,I'm having the same issues as a lot of people seem to have - which part # to choose! There's a big price difference between the two.
I've established (with your thread's help) that 51167001411 is for cars with the smoker's package (mine came with that), and 51167001409 is for the non-smokers pack.
My question is, can I put 51167001409 in a car that came with the smoker's pack? As it is way cheaper, like you said here (https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=47&t=1599460&i=120). You also said that either will fit - so just wanted to check that is definitely true, and there's no bodging or cutting to make the non-smoker's version fit?
Also did the non-smokers version come with a nice little storage compartment, or just an empty space?
Thanks for any help - and what a car your M3 is! I wish I had the skills and the money to renovate one myself. My 330ci will have to do for now!
In short,
Yes, the 409 part will fit with zero cutting required anywhere. It will be missing a light window in the side of it, and the old ashtray "tray" from your old part will transfer from your 'smokers' part to the new one. Otherwise you'll just have an empty space but a contained one built into the new part
.You'll also have to transfer over the cigar lighter. But given it's miles cheaper, it's well worth doing
.Many thanks for the praise
.So the only difference is the little window? Crazy. 409 is half the price of 411.
So if I didn't want to keep the ashtray and lighter, I think they do a sort of tray thing that can go in there instead right?
rainmasterb said:
Did I see this car in Whitley JLR multi-storey recently? My Topaz blue was parked not far away
You did indeed! It's looking a little secondhand with the wings these days, but hopefully I'll get around to that soon, now that I'm back to being a 2 car person again . I don't really take the M3 into work much, as I have This Car as my main daily. The M3 should be back as I need to change a door on the Mondeo thanks to a clumsy driver hitting it, but the replacement door needs all ancillaries transferring across.I've seen yours, or at least I think I have. IIRC yours is on 18s, a private plate and with a grey interior?
robotsan said:
Thanks mate you're the first person I've got a straight clear answer from about this!
So the only difference is the little window? Crazy. 409 is half the price of 411.
So if I didn't want to keep the ashtray and lighter, I think they do a sort of tray thing that can go in there instead right?
Indeed! It is a little nuts! I suspect the 411 may come with the ashtray (which your old one has) and the cigar lighter itself as well, which is a little nuts!So the only difference is the little window? Crazy. 409 is half the price of 411.
So if I didn't want to keep the ashtray and lighter, I think they do a sort of tray thing that can go in there instead right?
I'm not sure about BMW providing a tray for 409. I just transferred the ashtray and cigar lighter from my old part into the 409 part, as they drop straight in
.EDIT : It looks like you are right ; it's been years since I last looked. There is a listing a tray that can fit the panel, which looks to be more practical than the ashtray itself ; This normal tray goes under part no. 51168208369.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 9th March 06:36
SebringMan said:
You did indeed! It's looking a little secondhand with the wings these days, but hopefully I'll get around to that soon, now that I'm back to being a 2 car person again . I don't really take the M3 into work much, as I have This Car as my main daily. The M3 should be back as I need to change a door on the Mondeo thanks to a clumsy driver hitting it, but the replacement door needs all ancillaries transferring across.
I've seen yours, or at least I think I have. IIRC yours is on 18s, a private plate and with a grey interior?
Yeah that's mine. It's my daily so around most days. Pretty standard aside from suspension and some interior bits. Will be updating my readers car thread shortly after I've had my wheel retrimmed in alcantara. I don't really take the M3 into work much, as I have This Car as my main daily. The M3 should be back as I need to change a door on the Mondeo thanks to a clumsy driver hitting it, but the replacement door needs all ancillaries transferring across.I've seen yours, or at least I think I have. IIRC yours is on 18s, a private plate and with a grey interior?
rainmasterb said:
Yeah that's mine. It's my daily so around most days. Pretty standard aside from suspension and some interior bits. Will be updating my readers car thread shortly after I've had my wheel retrimmed in alcantara
Ah, do you have a link? I'll have to read it one of the days now I've slowly started to update the threads .I may have been busy getting the Mercedes improved in various ways, but that's not to say I forgot about the M3! Far from it! It's the fact that the weather being a little poor and me spending my time on the Mec, sometimes useful and other times wasted, has not helped matters.
With so little to do, I went on to try and finish off the refurb on the V-Brace. With this, I sanded back the brace, and then panel wipe the brace down. It was surprisingly dirty given that I wire wheeled it and then coated it in Hydrate 80 in affected areas.
At this stage, I then decided to proceed with finishing off the prepwork, and so grabbed my can of etch primer to touch up some of the bare metal areas that I caught during the sanding process. This however would turn out to be a mistake:
Yup, it reacted, badly! What is it with me and etch? It just flared up like mental! Part of me wonders if it is reacting with the panel wipe. Maybe it was simply too cold to paint, but I can't see why that would cause a reaction. In truth, I suspect it was reacting with the Hydate 80, which at the time I didn't realise also was a form of an etch primer. Ah well.
With that in mind, I sanded it back and proceeded to paint up the rest of the bar, where I last left it drying
While doing that, I went to admire a few of the new parts I bought for the car. Some of these are potentially unnecessary, others were down to help from unsuspecting sources, which is always great to see.
One of the freebies I got was a rear exhaust hanger, to replace the 3 year old/22,000 mile broken item. This is handy! However, given how annoyed I was about the exhaust mounts being damaged, I actually ordered a set of Billet exhaust mounts from Hack Engineering, where these items are said to resolve the issue with the genuine hangers ; pattern ones are not useful in this application ; they only last a few months before failing. Which set will I fit? Who knows? I may well fit the Hack Engineering back box mounts, ableit drill out the Poly to allow for a little more movement. I believe @bshaw has a similar set of mounts on his Renault Clio:
However, with a recent backbox change, the Hack mounts may well not be required
Yup, I got hold of a Milltek back box. With these weighing 12kg, they are much lighter than the factory back box at 24kg. Yikes! Why did I buy it? I've always fancied the M3 to be a little louder. I take it back, that's a lie. I always fancy every car I have being a little louder, but not to be too obtrusive. Which is where the Milltek may fall on its face. Various reports suggest that these backboxes can drone, along with the others in this price range (if you call £600-900 cheap!). However, this item was 8 months old and came up at a price I couldn't refuse. The way I see it, if I do get annoyed, I can always go back to stock, or splash even more cash and get an Eisenmann which are known to not drone. But that £1.2k for a backbox new and £800-900 secondhand, they're not what you'd call a bargain. But at least I won't have my work cut out putting the new backbox on right?
We shall see what happens. But there's not alot to do now to get it roadworthy.
With so little to do, I went on to try and finish off the refurb on the V-Brace. With this, I sanded back the brace, and then panel wipe the brace down. It was surprisingly dirty given that I wire wheeled it and then coated it in Hydrate 80 in affected areas.
At this stage, I then decided to proceed with finishing off the prepwork, and so grabbed my can of etch primer to touch up some of the bare metal areas that I caught during the sanding process. This however would turn out to be a mistake:
Yup, it reacted, badly! What is it with me and etch? It just flared up like mental! Part of me wonders if it is reacting with the panel wipe. Maybe it was simply too cold to paint, but I can't see why that would cause a reaction. In truth, I suspect it was reacting with the Hydate 80, which at the time I didn't realise also was a form of an etch primer. Ah well.
With that in mind, I sanded it back and proceeded to paint up the rest of the bar, where I last left it drying
While doing that, I went to admire a few of the new parts I bought for the car. Some of these are potentially unnecessary, others were down to help from unsuspecting sources, which is always great to see.
One of the freebies I got was a rear exhaust hanger, to replace the 3 year old/22,000 mile broken item. This is handy! However, given how annoyed I was about the exhaust mounts being damaged, I actually ordered a set of Billet exhaust mounts from Hack Engineering, where these items are said to resolve the issue with the genuine hangers ; pattern ones are not useful in this application ; they only last a few months before failing. Which set will I fit? Who knows? I may well fit the Hack Engineering back box mounts, ableit drill out the Poly to allow for a little more movement. I believe @bshaw has a similar set of mounts on his Renault Clio:
However, with a recent backbox change, the Hack mounts may well not be required
Yup, I got hold of a Milltek back box. With these weighing 12kg, they are much lighter than the factory back box at 24kg. Yikes! Why did I buy it? I've always fancied the M3 to be a little louder. I take it back, that's a lie. I always fancy every car I have being a little louder, but not to be too obtrusive. Which is where the Milltek may fall on its face. Various reports suggest that these backboxes can drone, along with the others in this price range (if you call £600-900 cheap!). However, this item was 8 months old and came up at a price I couldn't refuse. The way I see it, if I do get annoyed, I can always go back to stock, or splash even more cash and get an Eisenmann which are known to not drone. But that £1.2k for a backbox new and £800-900 secondhand, they're not what you'd call a bargain. But at least I won't have my work cut out putting the new backbox on right?
We shall see what happens. But there's not alot to do now to get it roadworthy
.SebringMan said:
Indeed! It is a little nuts! I suspect the 411 may come with the ashtray (which your old one has) and the cigar lighter itself as well, which is a little nuts!
I'm not sure about BMW providing a tray for 409. I just transferred the ashtray and cigar lighter from my old part into the 409 part, as they drop straight in.
EDIT : It looks like you are right ; it's been years since I last looked. There is a listing a tray that can fit the panel, which looks to be more practical than the ashtray itself ; This normal tray goes under part no. 51168208369.
I thought as much! So wow, they charge all that extra for the ashtray I'm not sure about BMW providing a tray for 409. I just transferred the ashtray and cigar lighter from my old part into the 409 part, as they drop straight in
.EDIT : It looks like you are right ; it's been years since I last looked. There is a listing a tray that can fit the panel, which looks to be more practical than the ashtray itself ; This normal tray goes under part no. 51168208369.
Edited by SebringMan on Monday 9th March 06:36
Thanks for the help!
P.S. I've now got the M3 bug too, and am thinking of taking the plunge in Jan next year!
From research, I'm aiming to spend under £12k on one like this:
- Manual gearbox
- Under 80k miles
- Ideally only 3 or so owners
- Good/mostly BMW SH
- ideally in one of the greys, blacks, dark blues or silver.
- ideally with red leather!
I realise that's quite a niche list and will take me a while to find, but I'm in no rush.
In terms of most important/expensive things to check on a manual, how is this list? Is there anything to add?:
- subframe: either already reinforced, or a recent check carried out with proof
- vanos?: this seems to be pretty rare on later e46s. But is it something to be worried about on 2002/2003 models?
- clutch: 80k miles is definitely enough for a new clutch in these right?
- springs: prone to breaking I think?
- suspension: trailing arms, bushes, etc etc?
- cooling system: having owned 2 e46 coupes already, I know all components in the cooling system are prone to falling to bits by at least 80k. Same on the M3 I'd imagine?
- water pump - as above!?
- power steering pump - as above!?
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