2013 Ferrari FF
Discussion
This latest development sort of confirms what I have long suspected ceramic discs are a marketing stunt to generate revenue. I suspected so because races cars go from steel to full carbon when allowed. I have never heard of a race car with ceramic, even when fitted to the road car. That always made me wonder if they were truly a performance item or a bling item.
Fonzey said:
I'll get photos soon, as I'll be keeping the discs for clocks 
They're in the middle of the friction surface, and for some reason only on the hidden inside face.
It almost looks like someone has been inaccurate with a hammer...
Ah ok! That is strange it’s only the inside face, maybe could have had a sticky piston on the inside at some point!They're in the middle of the friction surface, and for some reason only on the hidden inside face.
It almost looks like someone has been inaccurate with a hammer...
Megaflow said:
This latest development sort of confirms what I have long suspected ceramic discs are a marketing stunt to generate revenue. I suspected so because races cars go from steel to full carbon when allowed. I have never heard of a race car with ceramic, even when fitted to the road car. That always made me wonder if they were truly a performance item or a bling item.
I don’t know about that. If you have driven a car with ceramic brakes on track there is no doubt they are fantastic, but the issue is they don’t last very long and are expensive to replace!Like I say, if you had them on an RS6 or something like that which only ever saw the road, the discs would probably outlast the car.
Good to see you've pulled the trigger on the discs. It's a hefty blow for the wallet, but at least you can crack on with enjoying the car now.
As an aside, I recently sent my 911 in for some warranty work. All work carried out as requested with no charge to me despite the warranty being an extended one.
However, my car managed to pick up two punctures whilst it was away. Two screws; one in the front right, one in the back right.
And of course Porsche don't repair punctures.
Drive to a tyre shop to get them repaired? Centre lock wheels, brittle and expensive carbon discs = recipe for disaster.
Replace just the punctured tyres with new, and leave part worns on the other side of the car? No way.
So the only option was to buy 4 shiny new Cup 2's from Porsche at great expense.
The cynic in me did suspect those punctures might have manifested themselves to claw back some of the claim costs.... But at the end of the day I'm a tight fisted Yorkshireman, so I'm bound to say that.
As an aside, I recently sent my 911 in for some warranty work. All work carried out as requested with no charge to me despite the warranty being an extended one.
However, my car managed to pick up two punctures whilst it was away. Two screws; one in the front right, one in the back right.
And of course Porsche don't repair punctures.
Drive to a tyre shop to get them repaired? Centre lock wheels, brittle and expensive carbon discs = recipe for disaster.
Replace just the punctured tyres with new, and leave part worns on the other side of the car? No way.
So the only option was to buy 4 shiny new Cup 2's from Porsche at great expense.
The cynic in me did suspect those punctures might have manifested themselves to claw back some of the claim costs.... But at the end of the day I'm a tight fisted Yorkshireman, so I'm bound to say that.
Paracetamol said:
If you’re anything like me (and i suspect that you are), I’d have waited til I was sure that the noise from the rear was resolved before changing the discs.
Without that being fixed, you’ll not keep the car as it will bug you too much (ask me how I know).
“Fonzey, I am your father”Without that being fixed, you’ll not keep the car as it will bug you too much (ask me how I know).
At £7K, I'd go for the Surface Transforms discs. They're manufactured using a different process, and far, far more durable than the OE discs. So much so you can track the car without fear of them wearing out in the manner the OE items do, or them failing due to overheating and the inevitable oxidation and accelerated wear the higher temps cause.
The Surface Transforms items can be re-ground up to twice if damaged or when heavily worn (but we're talking using them on many trackdays, hard to wear them out)
I recommended them to Chris W on the Porsche forum, and he subsequently fitted a set to his Cayman GT4 which he tracks regularly.
I'd drop him him a PM and have a chat about the ST option before signing on the dotted line for the OE discs if I were you ...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=...
PH Rebrake thread here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
The Surface Transforms items can be re-ground up to twice if damaged or when heavily worn (but we're talking using them on many trackdays, hard to wear them out)
I recommended them to Chris W on the Porsche forum, and he subsequently fitted a set to his Cayman GT4 which he tracks regularly.
I'd drop him him a PM and have a chat about the ST option before signing on the dotted line for the OE discs if I were you ...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/profile.asp?h=...
PH Rebrake thread here : https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
There's been some great advice and thoughts here about the brakes, and I don't want to sound dismissive of that conversation - but ultimately going for OEM replacements just made the most sense.
Had I been replacing all corners, then going Surface Transforms makes sense and future proofs nicely.
Had this been a long termer track car for me, then steels makes the most sense.
For just replacing one axle, OEM was both the most cost effective and the most sensible.
I finally got the call last week to let me know the car was done, so with much apprehension I went over to the dealership on Saturday morning.
I found there was some sort of supercar owners club meet on at the dealership, so the place was rammed. I didn't have time to talk to the service dept. at all about the work, but the car was waiting all prepped out front. I'm sure she was just being polite, but the receptionist claimed they'd had a few approaches from people asking if it was for sale... imagine my anger when I found she didn't take any details!!
The car was actually parked right in front of the main doors when I first got there, which meant there was no hope of just leaving quietly. The cold start barked through the showroom like a machine of war, and probably gassed a few people out for good measure.
I was very nervous because I'd just dropped a lot of money on this dealership visit, and if the noise was still present it would have been really, really disappointing. If the noise was fixed, it would still be a lot of money - but progress, so we can rationalise that.
After poking around the showroom for a bit, I decided this was my new favourite Ferrari.
The facelifted FF (GTC4Lusso) out front gave me something to look at too. Has some nice styling upgrades on the outside, and a modernised infotainment as you'd expect - but still very, very similar cars.
Eventually I had to bite the bullet and leave, so I pootled out and headed for the dual carraigeway. Within minutes I was convinced the noise was indeed fixed. It sounds silly to put so much enjoyment of a car at risk because of a fairly mild noise, but having it go away has made such a massive difference to me. The whole thing now feels more robust and pleasant to drive.
Due to the overcomplicated logistics of collecting the car on Saturday morning, I had to drive home, collect the missus and daughter and then head back to rescue the Porsche courtesy car that I'd left abandoned at Ferrari. My Taycan is currently also broken, and despite the two dealers being right next door to each other - Porsche were absolutely hopeless in coordinating this a bit better for me. Hey ho.
This did mean making a day of it though, and we spent much of the day zipping around in the FF including a hateful walk round White Rose shopping centre.
On the way home, family in the courtesy Macan and me left to my own thoughts in the FF. It was getting very dark, and extremely cold but I set out for a scenic route home nonetheless.
An added benefit to the warranty work has been the replacement wishbones/bushes at the front. This has added a nice upgrade to the steering on this car, and has solved an insecurity I've had about it ever since replacing the tyres and fixing the initial handling foibles.
Ferrari's are known for very light and quick steering, and this car is no exception... but I couldn't gel with it properly. I always felt like I needed two bites of the cherry to find my steering angle on a fast turn-in, and I blamed it on the relative speed of the rack compared to the performance cars I'm used to driving. In hindsight I think this was due to an inaccuracy caused by the bushes.
The front of the car has never lacked grip, and even on the subzero roundabouts near home I was able to turn in with full confidence. The rear however was more up for a party, and though I wasn't irresponsibly sliding the car everywhere - the AWD and the 'systems' do just enough to give you the ability to steer with the rear a bit, without needing armfuls of correction or panicky twitches of the wheel. It's great fun, and I imagine an absolute hoot on a racetrack.
In Sport mode, the 3rd-4th gear changes at full chat where lighting up the rear wheels at will, but nothing the systems couldn't subsequently handle. In Wet or even Snow mode, you could drive the car with full aggression and it wouldn't let anything so much as chirp. Clever stuff.
I even tried provoking it a bit in first gear out of a wide open T-Junction, but the systems simply were having none of it - and it just gently pulled out like I was only applying 5% throttle.
I got home feeling like I'd collected a new car. Partly as it's been away for so long, but mainly because this really does feel like a reset. After 6 months of chipping away at it, the car now looks and drives as it probably should have done originally. There's still some minor things I'd like to do to it, but I'm much more motivated to tackle these things now that I know the baseline is there and that Ferrari have given the car an absolutely clean bill of health as part of warranty renewal. I have a new faith in the coverage of the warranty, and despite the sizable bill - I'm feeling pretty good about Ferrari ownership going forward.
Next day I cleaned the grot out to celebrate the return home.
Looking forward to some crispy clear Winter morning driving in the car now. My Daughter very much missed "the horsey car" and she'll be relieved that we can now use this for swimming lessons on a saturday rather than slumming it in the Porsche. Poor little lamb.
Had I been replacing all corners, then going Surface Transforms makes sense and future proofs nicely.
Had this been a long termer track car for me, then steels makes the most sense.
For just replacing one axle, OEM was both the most cost effective and the most sensible.
I finally got the call last week to let me know the car was done, so with much apprehension I went over to the dealership on Saturday morning.
I found there was some sort of supercar owners club meet on at the dealership, so the place was rammed. I didn't have time to talk to the service dept. at all about the work, but the car was waiting all prepped out front. I'm sure she was just being polite, but the receptionist claimed they'd had a few approaches from people asking if it was for sale... imagine my anger when I found she didn't take any details!!
The car was actually parked right in front of the main doors when I first got there, which meant there was no hope of just leaving quietly. The cold start barked through the showroom like a machine of war, and probably gassed a few people out for good measure.
I was very nervous because I'd just dropped a lot of money on this dealership visit, and if the noise was still present it would have been really, really disappointing. If the noise was fixed, it would still be a lot of money - but progress, so we can rationalise that.
After poking around the showroom for a bit, I decided this was my new favourite Ferrari.
The facelifted FF (GTC4Lusso) out front gave me something to look at too. Has some nice styling upgrades on the outside, and a modernised infotainment as you'd expect - but still very, very similar cars.
Eventually I had to bite the bullet and leave, so I pootled out and headed for the dual carraigeway. Within minutes I was convinced the noise was indeed fixed. It sounds silly to put so much enjoyment of a car at risk because of a fairly mild noise, but having it go away has made such a massive difference to me. The whole thing now feels more robust and pleasant to drive.
Due to the overcomplicated logistics of collecting the car on Saturday morning, I had to drive home, collect the missus and daughter and then head back to rescue the Porsche courtesy car that I'd left abandoned at Ferrari. My Taycan is currently also broken, and despite the two dealers being right next door to each other - Porsche were absolutely hopeless in coordinating this a bit better for me. Hey ho.
This did mean making a day of it though, and we spent much of the day zipping around in the FF including a hateful walk round White Rose shopping centre.
On the way home, family in the courtesy Macan and me left to my own thoughts in the FF. It was getting very dark, and extremely cold but I set out for a scenic route home nonetheless.
An added benefit to the warranty work has been the replacement wishbones/bushes at the front. This has added a nice upgrade to the steering on this car, and has solved an insecurity I've had about it ever since replacing the tyres and fixing the initial handling foibles.
Ferrari's are known for very light and quick steering, and this car is no exception... but I couldn't gel with it properly. I always felt like I needed two bites of the cherry to find my steering angle on a fast turn-in, and I blamed it on the relative speed of the rack compared to the performance cars I'm used to driving. In hindsight I think this was due to an inaccuracy caused by the bushes.
The front of the car has never lacked grip, and even on the subzero roundabouts near home I was able to turn in with full confidence. The rear however was more up for a party, and though I wasn't irresponsibly sliding the car everywhere - the AWD and the 'systems' do just enough to give you the ability to steer with the rear a bit, without needing armfuls of correction or panicky twitches of the wheel. It's great fun, and I imagine an absolute hoot on a racetrack.
In Sport mode, the 3rd-4th gear changes at full chat where lighting up the rear wheels at will, but nothing the systems couldn't subsequently handle. In Wet or even Snow mode, you could drive the car with full aggression and it wouldn't let anything so much as chirp. Clever stuff.
I even tried provoking it a bit in first gear out of a wide open T-Junction, but the systems simply were having none of it - and it just gently pulled out like I was only applying 5% throttle.
I got home feeling like I'd collected a new car. Partly as it's been away for so long, but mainly because this really does feel like a reset. After 6 months of chipping away at it, the car now looks and drives as it probably should have done originally. There's still some minor things I'd like to do to it, but I'm much more motivated to tackle these things now that I know the baseline is there and that Ferrari have given the car an absolutely clean bill of health as part of warranty renewal. I have a new faith in the coverage of the warranty, and despite the sizable bill - I'm feeling pretty good about Ferrari ownership going forward.
Next day I cleaned the grot out to celebrate the return home.
Looking forward to some crispy clear Winter morning driving in the car now. My Daughter very much missed "the horsey car" and she'll be relieved that we can now use this for swimming lessons on a saturday rather than slumming it in the Porsche. Poor little lamb.
d. Great to hear that!
I think when a car's not quite driving right when you first get it, you can't quite gel with it, so that element of the 'new car' experience only really starts from once the car's right again, and you can start learning and trusting it. My McLaren was a bit similar, rear suspension alignment was out when I got it and it spooked me with surprise oversteer. Once the rear wheels were pointing straight I could start to really get into enjoying it.
Glad your car's now good and you can start savouring the experience.
Brilliant update - I'm so pleased for you. Really sounded like this was a 'make or break' moment for you and your relationship with the car/brand and it's such good news it's turned out well.
Good for you, because you can finally enjoy the car as intended, and good news for us because we can live vicariously through you rather than needing to buy one ourselves
Good for you, because you can finally enjoy the car as intended, and good news for us because we can live vicariously through you rather than needing to buy one ourselves
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