2013 Ferrari FF
Discussion
Leithen said:
The MOT (pic 165/166) has the front and rear disc measurements and lists fronts at 67% worn and rears at 11% worn.
Ah yeah. The onboard computer has an algorithm to calculate a best guess on how worn the discs are. It can trigger a warning light and is based on how many braking events you've done, how much the stability system has intervened, etc.
There are a fair few documented cases online of people getting this warning light and having the discs inspected to find they're absolutely fine. Problem then is, what do you do with the algorithm? If you just reset it back to the start - it's never going to be accurate ever again.
Honestly it sounds like a dumb idea to me. It holds you hostage and must make you feel like slapping brand new discs on for no good reason if it does go off.
The 165/166 pic even if accurate I wouldn't consider to be badly worn. 11% worn is nothing, so forget the rears - and even if the front measurement is accurate you could still get another 10 years out of them of average mileage...
wolfracesonic said:
…and even if the brake bolts are shot on the donor car and you have to buy two sets, you’ll no doubt get them cheaper due to economies of scale, winner winner chicken dinner
I never even thought of it that way. Having two V12's never sounded so sensible.As part of the plan to lightly restore the bodywork, I'd had the car booked in for a proper correction detail almost as soon as I collected it! The plan was to get the car painted, leave it a month or so to 'gas out' or whatever they call it, then get cracking with a good ceramic coat.
That all went to plan, except a slight issue with the paintwork has thrown the schedule off a bit. The car will actually be going back in for a bit more paint sometime in the coming months, I'll detail this later once the chapter has concluded but the bodyshop have been great sports are onboard with me to get the car looking as good as possible. For that reason, spending 3 days and a fair few quid on fancy detailing products is a bit premature for now.
With a booking still in place with the detailer, we wanted to do *something* so we agreed a plan to get the freshly painted wheels ceramic coated along with the calipers, and get the interior all spruced up and leather treated. The exterior would get a light touch chemical decontamination and then a cheat-glaze applied to give it a bit of short term zing whilst I'm blasting around from pub to pub prior to the proper correction.
The car absolutely needs a good correction, and it will benefit loads. I think it emotionally damaged the detailer a bit to ask him to literally gloss over it
I entrusted Blaine @ Sharp Eye Detail to work with me on the FF. He has a background in painting and has transitioned to detailing so I leaned on his opinions and judgement when evaluating the cars paint both before and after respray.
After a couple of days away, I collected the car and was thrilled with the results. He took and sent almost 60 photos, so here are a few samples:
The CCBs barely produce any dust at all, so the ceramic coating is maybe overkill here - but the barrels of the wheels are very difficult to reach effectively when mounted to the car so this will hopefully give me half a chance of keeping them nice and clean with minimal contact.
The interior was scrubbed down and treated. I've commented a few times that the leather had worn great, and it has - but it did have that inevitable shine in a couple of places from high traffic. Particularly the steering wheel which has now got much of its original satin sheen back.
The paintwork glaze is a cheat product, it fills and distracts from the worst of the swirls and gives you a nice pop in photos for a few days - but it's a good effort:reward ratio when you aren't doing a proper correction and will give me something to grin at for a few days.
Car looks (and smells!) fantastic. Was covered in greasy 3 year old handprints within 10mins of being home but hey ho.
MDifficult said:
Looks outstanding!
Out of interest, do you know what product they used for your cheat-glaze? Looks like they use Gtechniq stuff normally but I don't think they do a glaze and I'm always interested in what pro places use.
Was Poorboy's black hole that I provided. As you suggest, a real detailer wouldn't be caught dead with that in their locker Out of interest, do you know what product they used for your cheat-glaze? Looks like they use Gtechniq stuff normally but I don't think they do a glaze and I'm always interested in what pro places use.
ferret50 said:
Fasinating, OP, to read the technical bits regarding the brake disc retaining bolts. Got me pondering. I assume a full car set is 40 bolts?
So a production run of a thousand is 25 car sets. Would the other 24 sets sell on to other owners within a sensible time frame?
Perhaps a speculative post on a Ferrari forum to gauge interest?
Lovely car, BTW, but if it were mine I would be banning food and sticky sweets!
Thank you! Yes the idea of getting some fabbed up at scale has occurred to me, but I'm reluctant at the moment for the following reasons:So a production run of a thousand is 25 car sets. Would the other 24 sets sell on to other owners within a sensible time frame?
Perhaps a speculative post on a Ferrari forum to gauge interest?
Lovely car, BTW, but if it were mine I would be banning food and sticky sweets!
1. I think the market is very small. The bolt design is common across many Brembo CCBs of that era (Ferrari, Mac, AM, etc) but the lengths differ - so I may have to get them made in 50mm, 55, 58, 60, etc. The FF alone has different sizes front to back. Further to this, not many people are proactively tinkering with Ferraris - and more often than not, these bolts are only flagged as an issue after it's too late and the disc needs replacing anyway. This may change though if the FF is going to linger in the <100k bracket for a while.
2. As we've all learned from this thread, making bolts is not just a straight forward affair. I'm not sure I could put my name on something and sell it on even if the correct materials are used. How can I verify that the fixings have been made correctly, to spec, etc? It's a liability thing.
3. Not sure I can be bothered
RD-1 said:
Lovely looking car and great thread.
These are really growing on me (is it an age thing?) and feels like the natural successor to my GranTurismo in time
Thank you! And yes they've grown on me too. For a long time the front engined V12 thing was a bit of an old mans choice. I'd have taken a V8 Mid/Rear track special any day of the week... but Lotus have spoiled me somewhat and I'm just not ready to give that up yet. These are really growing on me (is it an age thing?) and feels like the natural successor to my GranTurismo in time
Couple of small updates on the car over the last couple of weeks.
First up it was service time, after a lot of internal debate about main dealer vs indy specialist, I decided to go for a main dealer on this occasion. After summing up all of the pros and cons, it came down to convenience in the end - I could drop the car with JCT600 in Leeds on the way to my biweekly visits into the city centre, then collect on the way home without any real disruption.
It had taken a while, but I'd successfully tracked down the full service history of the car. Previous owners didn't quite keep on top of all the stamps but the Ferrari dealer network are very good at logging everything and don't hesitate to share with new owners - so I could work out that the car was due just a 'basic' maintenance service this year, which is a relief to the wallet.
The dealership didn't fail to impress, lovely place and as I say, a convenient location for me. Had some great eye candy inside too.
I'd asked that a technician come out for a quick drive with me, the car was making what I described as a rotational scuffing sound occasionally. It seems to speed up with wheel speed, so I wanted to demonstrate this so the service team could focus an inspection. As it always happens, the car was bloody silent during the test drive so he just had to take my word for it...
Should have brought an 8mm spanner with me to the showroom.
After going about my business, I got a call and a video around lunchtime. This was the first time during my ownership that the car was getting properly inspected so I was a bit nervous about the call - but the general comments and tone of the call was very positive, the car was in fantastic condition underneath.
...then came the 'but', the PTU (front gearbox) was leaking oil - it was badly staining the casing and the undertray was covered in it. Uh oh. Although this would send shivers down the spine of most FF owners (the PTU is really the Achilles heel of the platform), I really wasn't too concerned. I'd had confirmation from another dealer that the PTU was a brand new replacement back in March this year - so combining the Ferrari powertrain warranty with this fact made me believe that I was highly likely to get looked after in the event of another failure so soon.
I authorised a few hours' labour to investigate further, which meant JCT would keep the car overnight. A colleague gave me a lift home, and JCT kindly offered to deliver the car FOC the next day.
The report on the rotational sound, or possible contenders came back inconclusive. Everything was thoroughly checked around the suspension, brakes, driveshafts and wheel bearings and everything checked out. They failed to replicate on the test drive, so I'd just have to come back to that later... but it was a relief that the (expensive) wheel bearings had at least been ruled as unlikely.
My only theory at the time was a dragging handbrake shoe. They're inside the disc hubs like an old school drum brake, so perhaps were dragging on some pad transfer or foreign object inside the hub. Something I could check myself later.
Finally I asked JCT to perform a wheel alignment to put to bed the distorted tyres/handling issues. The diagnostic printout showed that the front tyres had some toe-in, and the rears had some toe-out. Both of which the reverse of what should be setup, so this was corrected.
Later that evening I got a call with a PTU conclusion. It was concluded that the box was overfilled a bit when the other dealer fitted it back in March, and the breather had since ejected the excess. This was remedied by a thorough cleanup, and refilling the box so we could be sure the level was now right. I'd now keep an eye on it, and hopefully that's that.
The following day I got my delivery, and some major trailer envy:
Oh, and the kind gent delivering the car also handed me the invoice.
By far the most I've spent on a car service, as you can imagine - and I've ended up stomaching the costs of the investigation/cleanup of the PTU. I probably could go after the other dealership for these costs but the proper response would have been to have the car sent to them for the investigation, and as they're in Central London it really wasn't worth my effort. That all said, the price wasn't *that* bad and considering the car delivery and the confidence I have that the car 'checks out', it's been worth the cost.
Though the PTU issue has turned out (hopefully) benign, it has really rattled me and my thoughts about self-warrantying after expiration in November...
To celebrate, I decided on an early start last Saturday to take the car on a run, meet some friends and hopefully get one of my service stamps retrofitted to my book. Ferrari in Wilmslow had confirmed a while back that they did indeed perform the 2022 service and would happily stamp my book if I was ever in the area.
6am
Headed down towards Sheffield then into the Peak District. IME not the best 'district in the UK for driving, but a convenient route for getting to Wilmslow and meeting some friends. We met up at Ladybower reservoir and then headed off on a load of routes that frankly I had no idea about. I was just following the leader.
Quite an eclectic mix of cars in a Ferrari FF, Jaguar XE (the V6 one), Tesla Model 3, Megane RS and McLaren 600LT. Funnily enough all people who met through Lotus ownership, and despite most of us still owning Lotus... not a single one showed up.
Did the usual touristy stuff, took some photos and got some pretty clear runs on some of the routes which was nice.
FF was a little bit out of place on some of the windy/tighter stuff, the long nose made it very difficult for me to throw the car in with confidence - as visibility is really hampered. On the longer flowing stuff it came into its own, and the V12 howl across the gorges, villages and hills was just a little bit sexy.
The car went through it's most sustained windows of 'push' since I'd bought it, and happy to say it did so without falter. No odd behaviours, warnings or lights - just performance, noise and a lot of petrol.
The handling characteristics since correcting the wheel alignment just felt all round a lot 'tidier'. Car wasn't bad before, but I think that was against the reference of it's original characteristics on the dodgy tyres. The alignment had given the steering a bit more feel, more stability under heavy braking but I was struggling for rear traction more than I had previously - but I put this down to the fact I was pushing harder.
In Sports mode, the rear allows a little bit of slip - I don't know what the ESC/TC system does when it triggers, whether it flashes up a telltale light or what but I never saw anything despite hearing the odd lockup of an inside rear (presumably the ESC stopping an inside wheel from spinning?) and though the rear gave me a few wiggles when powering out of a hairpin, It never slipped for long enough to know if some sort of TC magic was kicking in.
Thoroughly enjoyable drive though, and oh so comfortable. The leather Daytona seats do struggle a bit in the "bum grip" department compared to the condom-fitment bare carbon Tilletts of my Lotus, but the ventilated seat cushions are bloody lovely when things all start to get a bit hot and bothered.
SatNav just being particularly useless and just deciding I was out at Sea for most of the morning.
Upon arrival at Wilmslow some hours later, we met for breakfast before I peeled off to Ferrari with McLaren and Jag in tow. The experience compared to JCT in Leeds was really quite frosty. I'd screwed up by not actually checking service dept was open on a Saturday (it wasn't), so no book to be stamped on this occasion - but what could have been a pleasant 20mins window shopping and talking cars with the sales team was the three of us feeling like we were just messing up their quiet Saturday, so we left.
Next door was McLaren Manchester which could not have been a more different experience. Show room was much nicer than the Ferrari one next door, and the customer service there was fantastic. They came out to meet our McLaren convoy member by name (they'd clearly done a lookup on his plate, nice touch), and after we explained we were just here for a mooch around they stopped at nothing to throw coffee at us and a staffmember to walk us around all the cars just geeking out with us. Ended up being there over an hour, and it was a great way to spend a Saturday morning.
Learned loads about the McLaren lineup, they showed interest in the FF but at no point tried any sleezy sales tactics on any of us. Other than opening the doors for just about anything we wanted to look at.
To my eye the 720S is looking like a serious supercar bargain at the moment.
Enjoyed oogling their Artura too, but the older stuff looked a bit more appealing to my eye. The peak of course being:
I took the motorways home and it gave me plenty of time to try and work out what this 'rotational' noise was. When driving "on it" all morning, it had been inaudible. It seemed to reliably stop beneath 25mph (probably why I couldn't hear it with the JCT tech) and it would get faster and faster with wheelspeed before going quiet again above 80ish, probably because other noises simply drown it out at that point. Opening any window even a crack completely drowns it out, but I know that the double glazed glass is very, very effective at sound deadening which makes me think that the sound must be reverberating through the chassis into the interior rather than being an external noise heard through the glass.
Clicking the gearbox into neutral doesn't influence the noise, nor does gently covering the brake pedal. Accel vs Decel no difference, nor does applying lateral load to either side (lane changes etc). It seems quieter some times more than others, but really struggling to apply a pattern.
Some hours later I got back to my local fuel station just in time for juice. The days fun had cost me 75litres of vpower, yikes.
One thing I wondered about the noise was whether or not it could actually be just airflow coming off the wheels into the arch buckets. It has a sort of "undertray gently flapping" sound to it. After I got home, I poked my hand into all of the wheel arches and found that the carpeted liner on the OSR was a bit loose, and I could tap it - making a sound that very closely replicates what I'm hearing at speed.
I'll look at getting that off and refitted this week, by the looks of it at least one fixing is missing - so if it ends up just being a flapping arch liner I'll be really quite chuffed.
First up it was service time, after a lot of internal debate about main dealer vs indy specialist, I decided to go for a main dealer on this occasion. After summing up all of the pros and cons, it came down to convenience in the end - I could drop the car with JCT600 in Leeds on the way to my biweekly visits into the city centre, then collect on the way home without any real disruption.
It had taken a while, but I'd successfully tracked down the full service history of the car. Previous owners didn't quite keep on top of all the stamps but the Ferrari dealer network are very good at logging everything and don't hesitate to share with new owners - so I could work out that the car was due just a 'basic' maintenance service this year, which is a relief to the wallet.
The dealership didn't fail to impress, lovely place and as I say, a convenient location for me. Had some great eye candy inside too.
I'd asked that a technician come out for a quick drive with me, the car was making what I described as a rotational scuffing sound occasionally. It seems to speed up with wheel speed, so I wanted to demonstrate this so the service team could focus an inspection. As it always happens, the car was bloody silent during the test drive so he just had to take my word for it...
Should have brought an 8mm spanner with me to the showroom.
After going about my business, I got a call and a video around lunchtime. This was the first time during my ownership that the car was getting properly inspected so I was a bit nervous about the call - but the general comments and tone of the call was very positive, the car was in fantastic condition underneath.
...then came the 'but', the PTU (front gearbox) was leaking oil - it was badly staining the casing and the undertray was covered in it. Uh oh. Although this would send shivers down the spine of most FF owners (the PTU is really the Achilles heel of the platform), I really wasn't too concerned. I'd had confirmation from another dealer that the PTU was a brand new replacement back in March this year - so combining the Ferrari powertrain warranty with this fact made me believe that I was highly likely to get looked after in the event of another failure so soon.
I authorised a few hours' labour to investigate further, which meant JCT would keep the car overnight. A colleague gave me a lift home, and JCT kindly offered to deliver the car FOC the next day.
The report on the rotational sound, or possible contenders came back inconclusive. Everything was thoroughly checked around the suspension, brakes, driveshafts and wheel bearings and everything checked out. They failed to replicate on the test drive, so I'd just have to come back to that later... but it was a relief that the (expensive) wheel bearings had at least been ruled as unlikely.
My only theory at the time was a dragging handbrake shoe. They're inside the disc hubs like an old school drum brake, so perhaps were dragging on some pad transfer or foreign object inside the hub. Something I could check myself later.
Finally I asked JCT to perform a wheel alignment to put to bed the distorted tyres/handling issues. The diagnostic printout showed that the front tyres had some toe-in, and the rears had some toe-out. Both of which the reverse of what should be setup, so this was corrected.
Later that evening I got a call with a PTU conclusion. It was concluded that the box was overfilled a bit when the other dealer fitted it back in March, and the breather had since ejected the excess. This was remedied by a thorough cleanup, and refilling the box so we could be sure the level was now right. I'd now keep an eye on it, and hopefully that's that.
The following day I got my delivery, and some major trailer envy:
Oh, and the kind gent delivering the car also handed me the invoice.
By far the most I've spent on a car service, as you can imagine - and I've ended up stomaching the costs of the investigation/cleanup of the PTU. I probably could go after the other dealership for these costs but the proper response would have been to have the car sent to them for the investigation, and as they're in Central London it really wasn't worth my effort. That all said, the price wasn't *that* bad and considering the car delivery and the confidence I have that the car 'checks out', it's been worth the cost.
Though the PTU issue has turned out (hopefully) benign, it has really rattled me and my thoughts about self-warrantying after expiration in November...
To celebrate, I decided on an early start last Saturday to take the car on a run, meet some friends and hopefully get one of my service stamps retrofitted to my book. Ferrari in Wilmslow had confirmed a while back that they did indeed perform the 2022 service and would happily stamp my book if I was ever in the area.
6am
Headed down towards Sheffield then into the Peak District. IME not the best 'district in the UK for driving, but a convenient route for getting to Wilmslow and meeting some friends. We met up at Ladybower reservoir and then headed off on a load of routes that frankly I had no idea about. I was just following the leader.
Quite an eclectic mix of cars in a Ferrari FF, Jaguar XE (the V6 one), Tesla Model 3, Megane RS and McLaren 600LT. Funnily enough all people who met through Lotus ownership, and despite most of us still owning Lotus... not a single one showed up.
Did the usual touristy stuff, took some photos and got some pretty clear runs on some of the routes which was nice.
FF was a little bit out of place on some of the windy/tighter stuff, the long nose made it very difficult for me to throw the car in with confidence - as visibility is really hampered. On the longer flowing stuff it came into its own, and the V12 howl across the gorges, villages and hills was just a little bit sexy.
The car went through it's most sustained windows of 'push' since I'd bought it, and happy to say it did so without falter. No odd behaviours, warnings or lights - just performance, noise and a lot of petrol.
The handling characteristics since correcting the wheel alignment just felt all round a lot 'tidier'. Car wasn't bad before, but I think that was against the reference of it's original characteristics on the dodgy tyres. The alignment had given the steering a bit more feel, more stability under heavy braking but I was struggling for rear traction more than I had previously - but I put this down to the fact I was pushing harder.
In Sports mode, the rear allows a little bit of slip - I don't know what the ESC/TC system does when it triggers, whether it flashes up a telltale light or what but I never saw anything despite hearing the odd lockup of an inside rear (presumably the ESC stopping an inside wheel from spinning?) and though the rear gave me a few wiggles when powering out of a hairpin, It never slipped for long enough to know if some sort of TC magic was kicking in.
Thoroughly enjoyable drive though, and oh so comfortable. The leather Daytona seats do struggle a bit in the "bum grip" department compared to the condom-fitment bare carbon Tilletts of my Lotus, but the ventilated seat cushions are bloody lovely when things all start to get a bit hot and bothered.
SatNav just being particularly useless and just deciding I was out at Sea for most of the morning.
Upon arrival at Wilmslow some hours later, we met for breakfast before I peeled off to Ferrari with McLaren and Jag in tow. The experience compared to JCT in Leeds was really quite frosty. I'd screwed up by not actually checking service dept was open on a Saturday (it wasn't), so no book to be stamped on this occasion - but what could have been a pleasant 20mins window shopping and talking cars with the sales team was the three of us feeling like we were just messing up their quiet Saturday, so we left.
Next door was McLaren Manchester which could not have been a more different experience. Show room was much nicer than the Ferrari one next door, and the customer service there was fantastic. They came out to meet our McLaren convoy member by name (they'd clearly done a lookup on his plate, nice touch), and after we explained we were just here for a mooch around they stopped at nothing to throw coffee at us and a staffmember to walk us around all the cars just geeking out with us. Ended up being there over an hour, and it was a great way to spend a Saturday morning.
Learned loads about the McLaren lineup, they showed interest in the FF but at no point tried any sleezy sales tactics on any of us. Other than opening the doors for just about anything we wanted to look at.
To my eye the 720S is looking like a serious supercar bargain at the moment.
Enjoyed oogling their Artura too, but the older stuff looked a bit more appealing to my eye. The peak of course being:
I took the motorways home and it gave me plenty of time to try and work out what this 'rotational' noise was. When driving "on it" all morning, it had been inaudible. It seemed to reliably stop beneath 25mph (probably why I couldn't hear it with the JCT tech) and it would get faster and faster with wheelspeed before going quiet again above 80ish, probably because other noises simply drown it out at that point. Opening any window even a crack completely drowns it out, but I know that the double glazed glass is very, very effective at sound deadening which makes me think that the sound must be reverberating through the chassis into the interior rather than being an external noise heard through the glass.
Clicking the gearbox into neutral doesn't influence the noise, nor does gently covering the brake pedal. Accel vs Decel no difference, nor does applying lateral load to either side (lane changes etc). It seems quieter some times more than others, but really struggling to apply a pattern.
Some hours later I got back to my local fuel station just in time for juice. The days fun had cost me 75litres of vpower, yikes.
One thing I wondered about the noise was whether or not it could actually be just airflow coming off the wheels into the arch buckets. It has a sort of "undertray gently flapping" sound to it. After I got home, I poked my hand into all of the wheel arches and found that the carpeted liner on the OSR was a bit loose, and I could tap it - making a sound that very closely replicates what I'm hearing at speed.
I'll look at getting that off and refitted this week, by the looks of it at least one fixing is missing - so if it ends up just being a flapping arch liner I'll be really quite chuffed.
Went a whole post without directly referencing brake disc bolts, but hot off the press I have an update on that too.
Quotes I'd had to get these bolts remade in the UK ranged from £26/bolt to £90/bolt and everywhere in between. Some in some rather exotic materials that I'm sure would be an improvement over the originals but the expertise outlined in skwdenyer's posts made me really second guess the idea of getting replacements made.
Thanks to the excellent work and posts from skwdenyer, the original manufacturer of the bolts was tracked down as Ferriere di Stabio in Switzerland. Over the last few months I've reached out to them and many, many other companies about replacements.
After about a month they finally got back to me, just as I was boarding a plane for holiday - it was a generic holding email so I didn't think much of it. A few days later I had a reply that really caught me off guard. The reply was along the lines of:
"Yes we still have a few of these lying around, send us your address and we'll post them out". After querying costs, the reply came back as "nah we'll just send them to you, our treat".
As of a few hours ago, these landed at home:
I'm still pretty shocked I finally managed to get hold of them. Obviously as OEM items, they're going to have the same corrosion concerns that the originals had - but frankly if these last another 10 years, they're really not going to be my problem, or the problem of anyone else - as the discs will probably need changing by then.
Not sure what to do yet, whether to just swap out the two bolts that I had donated from an old disc - or swap out all ten, or even do all ten on both front discs.
I feel like just swapping the two out will be most likely, the others all past the visual corrosion check and I'll always have this box of spares in case I spot problems in the future. My reluctance for swapping them all frankly is that I want to minimise my opportunities for fecking something up, torquing something wrong or whatever - as the tolerances seem to be so fine.
Quotes I'd had to get these bolts remade in the UK ranged from £26/bolt to £90/bolt and everywhere in between. Some in some rather exotic materials that I'm sure would be an improvement over the originals but the expertise outlined in skwdenyer's posts made me really second guess the idea of getting replacements made.
Thanks to the excellent work and posts from skwdenyer, the original manufacturer of the bolts was tracked down as Ferriere di Stabio in Switzerland. Over the last few months I've reached out to them and many, many other companies about replacements.
After about a month they finally got back to me, just as I was boarding a plane for holiday - it was a generic holding email so I didn't think much of it. A few days later I had a reply that really caught me off guard. The reply was along the lines of:
"Yes we still have a few of these lying around, send us your address and we'll post them out". After querying costs, the reply came back as "nah we'll just send them to you, our treat".
As of a few hours ago, these landed at home:
I'm still pretty shocked I finally managed to get hold of them. Obviously as OEM items, they're going to have the same corrosion concerns that the originals had - but frankly if these last another 10 years, they're really not going to be my problem, or the problem of anyone else - as the discs will probably need changing by then.
Not sure what to do yet, whether to just swap out the two bolts that I had donated from an old disc - or swap out all ten, or even do all ten on both front discs.
I feel like just swapping the two out will be most likely, the others all past the visual corrosion check and I'll always have this box of spares in case I spot problems in the future. My reluctance for swapping them all frankly is that I want to minimise my opportunities for fecking something up, torquing something wrong or whatever - as the tolerances seem to be so fine.
Been a while since an update, mainly as there's little to report - but car has been getting plenty of use!
I have however been trying, and failing to track down an annoying little noise coming from the NSR of the car. I referenced it in an earlier post, but as a reminder I'm fairly sure it's been there since first buying the car. It is a gentle "chuffing" sound which speeds up and slows down with wheelspeed, and is independent of RPM (happens in neutral at 80mph) and applying the brakes softly or harshly does not influence it. Lateral load doesn't change it, nor does accel vs decel.
I reported it to Ferrari when it went in for service, and even took a technician out to demonstrate it - but Leeds 9am city centre traffic really didn't allow me to get up to speed and as a result we failed miserably in replicating it. Below 25-30mph it's inaudible, with the windows down it's inaudible. It's loudest/most annoying when cruising at motorway speed. It's really not that intrusive though, the missus thought it was in my head until I really made her concentrate on it...
The list of things I've done/checked so far:
Both rear wheels off and everything inspected, multiple times:
Lots and lots of missing liner clips and undertray fixings replaced or repaired;
Rear discs off, and handbrake shoes inspected.
There's definitely constant contact here, but I'm not sure how much is normal.
Floors off:
Rivnuts replaced for some dodgy floor fixings:
Found a heatshield for the propshaft which was loose. Replaced rivets on bracket:
Got distracted somewhere and swapped wiper blades;
I'm leaning on it being one of two things:
1) NSR Handbrake shoe dragging too much on disc. If this were a proper car, I'd rule this out by tweaking the handbrake on one click at speed. Not sure that's a great idea with an EPB though :/ I did back off the adjuster a bit, but it didn't make much difference. Maybe I should back it off more - or just take the shoes out and go for a drive (?)
2) Something to do with the wheel or tyre. I'm fairly sure this was happening on the old wonky tyres, maybe there's an issue with the wheel that wasn't picked up during the refurb. Seems unlikely, but if I could stumble across somebody in North Yorks with a set of spare winter/track wheels and tyres... there would definitely be some beer tokens available to help me rule that out.
Aside from that, I'm open to suggestions. Rear pads are on the list to be done soon - but I can't see it being those, as applying the brakes doesn't alter the sound.
It's also difficult to really check the rear wheels because it's a bit awkward to get the car in neutral when parked, but also even when in neutra there's still plenty of drag/noise associated to the driveshafts so I can't just spin a wheel by hand and check for sound. I'm considering removing the hub nut, loosening the various suspension links and popping the hub off the driveshaft for a bit so I can give everything a good twirl around.
Despite putting in considerable effort here, it's not spoiling the car for me - it still drives great, no vibrations, tracks straight and does everything it's supposed to.
Recent highlight being a trip up the Alston road across the Pennines. A favourite of mine and last visited on the 10 hour epic trip bringing the 2-Eleven back from Scotland. We stayed for a night at High Force Hotel, was supposed to be for star gazing but it was cloudy as hell - so just a night of food and drink followed by a run up and down the road with practically zero traffic the following morning.
The FF loved the damp/mixed conditions. Even driving at 6 tenths it was just flying across the country and echo'ing off the valley at every opportunity. Loads of front end grip in the damp, enough rear end wiggles to make it look like I was at least trying a bit. Even the missus got into it.
Got some decisions to make now, do I take it off road for winter? Warranty expires in Nov, do I extend or roll the dice? Can I delay renewal till March/April if I do decide to SORN? Many questions.
I have however been trying, and failing to track down an annoying little noise coming from the NSR of the car. I referenced it in an earlier post, but as a reminder I'm fairly sure it's been there since first buying the car. It is a gentle "chuffing" sound which speeds up and slows down with wheelspeed, and is independent of RPM (happens in neutral at 80mph) and applying the brakes softly or harshly does not influence it. Lateral load doesn't change it, nor does accel vs decel.
I reported it to Ferrari when it went in for service, and even took a technician out to demonstrate it - but Leeds 9am city centre traffic really didn't allow me to get up to speed and as a result we failed miserably in replicating it. Below 25-30mph it's inaudible, with the windows down it's inaudible. It's loudest/most annoying when cruising at motorway speed. It's really not that intrusive though, the missus thought it was in my head until I really made her concentrate on it...
The list of things I've done/checked so far:
Both rear wheels off and everything inspected, multiple times:
Lots and lots of missing liner clips and undertray fixings replaced or repaired;
Rear discs off, and handbrake shoes inspected.
There's definitely constant contact here, but I'm not sure how much is normal.
Floors off:
Rivnuts replaced for some dodgy floor fixings:
Found a heatshield for the propshaft which was loose. Replaced rivets on bracket:
Got distracted somewhere and swapped wiper blades;
I'm leaning on it being one of two things:
1) NSR Handbrake shoe dragging too much on disc. If this were a proper car, I'd rule this out by tweaking the handbrake on one click at speed. Not sure that's a great idea with an EPB though :/ I did back off the adjuster a bit, but it didn't make much difference. Maybe I should back it off more - or just take the shoes out and go for a drive (?)
2) Something to do with the wheel or tyre. I'm fairly sure this was happening on the old wonky tyres, maybe there's an issue with the wheel that wasn't picked up during the refurb. Seems unlikely, but if I could stumble across somebody in North Yorks with a set of spare winter/track wheels and tyres... there would definitely be some beer tokens available to help me rule that out.
Aside from that, I'm open to suggestions. Rear pads are on the list to be done soon - but I can't see it being those, as applying the brakes doesn't alter the sound.
It's also difficult to really check the rear wheels because it's a bit awkward to get the car in neutral when parked, but also even when in neutra there's still plenty of drag/noise associated to the driveshafts so I can't just spin a wheel by hand and check for sound. I'm considering removing the hub nut, loosening the various suspension links and popping the hub off the driveshaft for a bit so I can give everything a good twirl around.
Despite putting in considerable effort here, it's not spoiling the car for me - it still drives great, no vibrations, tracks straight and does everything it's supposed to.
Recent highlight being a trip up the Alston road across the Pennines. A favourite of mine and last visited on the 10 hour epic trip bringing the 2-Eleven back from Scotland. We stayed for a night at High Force Hotel, was supposed to be for star gazing but it was cloudy as hell - so just a night of food and drink followed by a run up and down the road with practically zero traffic the following morning.
The FF loved the damp/mixed conditions. Even driving at 6 tenths it was just flying across the country and echo'ing off the valley at every opportunity. Loads of front end grip in the damp, enough rear end wiggles to make it look like I was at least trying a bit. Even the missus got into it.
Got some decisions to make now, do I take it off road for winter? Warranty expires in Nov, do I extend or roll the dice? Can I delay renewal till March/April if I do decide to SORN? Many questions.
mwstewart said:
Regarding the disc bolts. Carefully inspect the mounting lugs on the disc when you go to replace them. The bolts corrode, swell up and crack the carbon mounting lugs. Unfortunately at that point the whole assembly is U/S.
The stainless spring plates are one time use, as are the nuts. Replacements are readily available for the H type bobbins e.g. https://trackformula.co.uk/product/brembo-h-type-b... but double check dimensions against what you have.
Yeah I had a specialist inspect the discs themselves and we'd caught it early, luckily. I also have a replacement set of brembo fixings, both the k-nuts and the springs as you say are a much more standard offering, and readily available - it was just the bolts themselves. I've still not replaced any bolts btw, they're still sat waiting.The stainless spring plates are one time use, as are the nuts. Replacements are readily available for the H type bobbins e.g. https://trackformula.co.uk/product/brembo-h-type-b... but double check dimensions against what you have.
lifeboat22 said:
I'd be whipping those shoes out, they look like they're dragging
b14 said:
Yep my bet will be handbrake, although that would be the kind of sound that is most obvious at lower speeds, given that at high speeds there's no way you'd be able to discern the gap in each sound as the wheel rotates.
Yeah I tend to agree. The noise definitely fades above the NSL because the wheel rotation is so fast that it turns into one sound - plus other noises tend to overlap at around that time anyway. Though I stated it speeds up/slows down with wheelspeed - I've often thought that it's happening too infrequently to happen on EVERY spin of the wheel.... more like every 2 or 3 spins, but then I haven't really done the maths... they're big wheels afterall!
I tried adjusting the shoes once already, but I may have just not released them enough. The NSR disc was actually hard to remove with the EPB disengaged which tells you that it was definitely dragging too much - but after my adjustment it slid back on easily enough. Since it's a similar amount of effort, I might just remove the shoes completely next time and get the linkage off to inspect. Maybe go for a drive with nothing fitted and rule it out one way or the other.
I've never had a drum brake car before, so the basic mechanicing skills and adjustment judgement isn't something I have experience of. The adjustment screw and the linkage/lever are not THAT expensive from Ferrari, so maybe an opportunity to just throw cash at it too.
milu said:
I have a similar noise on my V8 Vantage.
Been there ages.
Had it serviced and no finding the cause.
Different handbrake set up so have tried applying it but no different
Service guy wondered about a wheel bearing maybe. Could be,but it’s taking a long while to develop if correct
No one can hear it really,apart from me and the service guy.
I’m wondering if only came about when I went from P zero to PS4?
I'm trying to convince myself that the noise was there before I swapped tyres but I'm becoming less and less convincing!Been there ages.
Had it serviced and no finding the cause.
Different handbrake set up so have tried applying it but no different
Service guy wondered about a wheel bearing maybe. Could be,but it’s taking a long while to develop if correct
No one can hear it really,apart from me and the service guy.
I’m wondering if only came about when I went from P zero to PS4?
It would be annoying if it is the PS4S's, but reassuring I guess that it's nothing mechanical.
Thanks all for the comments and pointers.
I did back the adjuster wheel off a few clicks last time but maybe I didn't do enough, maybe the linkage is seized(?), so it needs another look.
I think my next plan if it ever stops raining is to:
1. Back adjuster right off, and make sure I take measurements or visually can confirm that it's actually retracted the shoes
2. If test-drive fails, I'll adjust it back and I'll swap the two rear wheels over to see if the noise moves.
3. If that still hasn't sorted it, and noise is still from the NSR, then I may look at taking that corner apart, driveshaft can stay in the box, but everything else can come off. Bit of a last resort as it's just recently had an alignment but I feel like I need to give the wheel bearing a completely unloaded spin by hand to see if it's grabbing or in any way uneven.
I did back the adjuster wheel off a few clicks last time but maybe I didn't do enough, maybe the linkage is seized(?), so it needs another look.
I think my next plan if it ever stops raining is to:
1. Back adjuster right off, and make sure I take measurements or visually can confirm that it's actually retracted the shoes
2. If test-drive fails, I'll adjust it back and I'll swap the two rear wheels over to see if the noise moves.
3. If that still hasn't sorted it, and noise is still from the NSR, then I may look at taking that corner apart, driveshaft can stay in the box, but everything else can come off. Bit of a last resort as it's just recently had an alignment but I feel like I need to give the wheel bearing a completely unloaded spin by hand to see if it's grabbing or in any way uneven.
Between trackday prep on the 2-Eleven, the driveway dried out enough for me to have another look at the FF.
Though I would ordinarily agree that swapping wheels is quicker and easier than messing with the handbrake, with the FF it's not quite the case - as I'd need to move it to allow me to jack up both rear quarters at once, and that was far too much like hardwork - so NSR handbrake fettling it was.
One of the most satisfying feelings when tinkering on cars is finding a smoking gun to annoying problem you've got:
I was over the moon, so decided to rebuild the corner without any shoes so I could quickly test it and be sure of it. I took the shoes out, the adjuster, the springs and then poked the handbrake cable back through the hub and secured it out of the way.
One of the most infuriating feelings when tinkering on cars is finding out that your smoking gun was not your issue. Sure enough, the noise remains.
It may be my imagination, but the tone/severity of it seems a lot less. But it's there all the same. I'm now wondering if maybe both sides were making noise, and the NSR was just the most prevalent.
I need access to the garage for 2-Eleven business over the next few days so I'll hold of incapacitating the FF for now, but I think my new plan is to jack the full rear end up, and give the OSR corner a good inspection, see of the handbrake shoes are in a similar state - then I'll stick an order in to Ferrari for however many replacements I need, get the handbrakes all built back up and then try the wheel swap.
I'm quickly coming to realise that my patience for working on the 2-Eleven when it's up on the ramp in the garage for weeks or even months at a time does not extend to rolling around on the driveway sorting out the FF. If my immediate next steps don't get me any closer, I may just give up and hand it back to Ferrari for another look. What's annoying me, is that I've let myself get annoyed by what is ultimately a very minor sound and there's no going back now till' its fixed.
Though I would ordinarily agree that swapping wheels is quicker and easier than messing with the handbrake, with the FF it's not quite the case - as I'd need to move it to allow me to jack up both rear quarters at once, and that was far too much like hardwork - so NSR handbrake fettling it was.
One of the most satisfying feelings when tinkering on cars is finding a smoking gun to annoying problem you've got:
I was over the moon, so decided to rebuild the corner without any shoes so I could quickly test it and be sure of it. I took the shoes out, the adjuster, the springs and then poked the handbrake cable back through the hub and secured it out of the way.
One of the most infuriating feelings when tinkering on cars is finding out that your smoking gun was not your issue. Sure enough, the noise remains.
It may be my imagination, but the tone/severity of it seems a lot less. But it's there all the same. I'm now wondering if maybe both sides were making noise, and the NSR was just the most prevalent.
I need access to the garage for 2-Eleven business over the next few days so I'll hold of incapacitating the FF for now, but I think my new plan is to jack the full rear end up, and give the OSR corner a good inspection, see of the handbrake shoes are in a similar state - then I'll stick an order in to Ferrari for however many replacements I need, get the handbrakes all built back up and then try the wheel swap.
I'm quickly coming to realise that my patience for working on the 2-Eleven when it's up on the ramp in the garage for weeks or even months at a time does not extend to rolling around on the driveway sorting out the FF. If my immediate next steps don't get me any closer, I may just give up and hand it back to Ferrari for another look. What's annoying me, is that I've let myself get annoyed by what is ultimately a very minor sound and there's no going back now till' its fixed.
I got some handbrake parts in time for the weekend so got to work on that. As somebody who has never serviced drum brakes before, this was quite the learning curve!
The FF Workshop manual is really good, one of the best I've used - but it understandably has a level of 'assumed knowledge' so you'll often read a one liner like "refit springs" and that's all you've got. After some considerable time swearing, giving up, un giving up, going for a walk up the road and back to chill out and finally doing it, to have to redo it all because I forgot a part - the brakes were back on the car.
However, despite the handbrake being 'off', the cable seemed to be fully contracted and the pads fully extended - so absolutely no hope of getting the disc back on. The adjuster knob was fully 'closed' but the issue was with the linkage actuated by the cable. I could tell it was fully pulled in.
I gave up for the night and ordered a curry.
The following morning it was back at it, and I removed the undertray from the car again. No small job, it has about 20 fixings and lots of rolling around on the floor. I'm spoilt in the garage with the Lotus on a lift most of the time.
I didn't snap a photo but my target was the central "equaliser" for the cable. The bit which allows the central cable to retract back from the electric motor and pull the two 'side cables' in towards the centre of the car. I could see that despite the brake being off, that the 'block' that slides left and right was slightly snagged in the middle. I pushed it manually towards the NSR and it slid easily enough.... but the linkage was still pulled in on the brake.
I later realised that I'd effectively built it back up and created a 'locked elbow' type scenario. Despite releasing tension on the cable, the springs between the shoes were pulling against a locked out elbow on the linkage. If I'd have poked the linkage gently in one way or the other, the elbow would have given, bent and we would have had a functional brake. This is why I had so much trouble refitting them, I was constantly working against the tension of the springs and linkage pushing the shoes outward!
The fix in the end was some gentle persuasion from a ratchet strap.
With barely any pressure pushing the shoes together, the linkage (elbow) popped and everything settled nicely into place.
Back under the car, I noticed that the equaliser section and the associated brackets were now flopping down. Good rattle candidates, but even once the shoes were adjusted back to correct position this slack remained. I did a bit of reading, then discovered the emergency release process in the boot.
Winding this handle clockwise was slackening the cable from the electric motor, and counter clockwise the reverse. I used this to tighten the central cable up a touch so that the slack was removed from the system without applying the brakes. I think this SHOULD be an electronic calibration process, so it may well reset the first time I drive the car - but it's something I can speak with Ferrari about.
With the undertray still laid on the drive, I took a good look at it. I knew from the previous removal that the plastic had broken in a couple of places which meant that not all the clips and fixings were in use.
(that's brake cleaner, not gearbox or engine oil!)
I had some time over the weekend, so attempted a fix.
Into the garage with an old fibreglass kit I had laying around:
Gave it a good clean in the repair areas, then got to work cutting some matting to fit.
The finished article 24hrs later:
It feels pretty strong. There's no reason for these trailing end fixings to be taking any real stress. They're just pinning the undertray to the diffuser. The heavy lifting and structural fixings are all inboard of the panel and involve M6 bolts and big washers to spread the load. I feel like these have broken because of poor handling of the undertray, if you remove all fixings from the front to the back - then the whole weight of the undertray would be on these, and is likely what caused it.
With the car buttoned back up the following morning, I also swapped the rear tyres over and went for a drive. I'd not done anything that I thought would fix the noise, remember I'd already ruled out the handbrake shoes by driving without them in the car at all. For the first 5 miles the noise was there, but almost silent. Could barely hear it above road noise when above 30mph which gave me real hope that maybe it WAS handbrake shoes (possibly from the OSR) and that my cable readjustment had lessened it off.
However, some miles later the noise returned back to it's previous levels.
Still, despite this I've not completely ruled out the handbrake. If the computer has readjusted the cable back to its previous point then it may have reintroduced the noise over a few miles - but it is now feeling like a long shot.
I was still in high spirits though, undertray repairs had gone well and it felt good to refit the undertray with ALL of its fixings. Gave the car a wash and called it a weekend.
Next steps are to go to Ferrari, on Wednesday this week. It needs a follow up check to inspect the cleaned up PTU oil from the annual service and we'll have a discussion about possibly renewing the Power15 warranty. Whilst its in, I WILL replicate the noise with a technician and see what they say.
The FF Workshop manual is really good, one of the best I've used - but it understandably has a level of 'assumed knowledge' so you'll often read a one liner like "refit springs" and that's all you've got. After some considerable time swearing, giving up, un giving up, going for a walk up the road and back to chill out and finally doing it, to have to redo it all because I forgot a part - the brakes were back on the car.
However, despite the handbrake being 'off', the cable seemed to be fully contracted and the pads fully extended - so absolutely no hope of getting the disc back on. The adjuster knob was fully 'closed' but the issue was with the linkage actuated by the cable. I could tell it was fully pulled in.
I gave up for the night and ordered a curry.
The following morning it was back at it, and I removed the undertray from the car again. No small job, it has about 20 fixings and lots of rolling around on the floor. I'm spoilt in the garage with the Lotus on a lift most of the time.
I didn't snap a photo but my target was the central "equaliser" for the cable. The bit which allows the central cable to retract back from the electric motor and pull the two 'side cables' in towards the centre of the car. I could see that despite the brake being off, that the 'block' that slides left and right was slightly snagged in the middle. I pushed it manually towards the NSR and it slid easily enough.... but the linkage was still pulled in on the brake.
I later realised that I'd effectively built it back up and created a 'locked elbow' type scenario. Despite releasing tension on the cable, the springs between the shoes were pulling against a locked out elbow on the linkage. If I'd have poked the linkage gently in one way or the other, the elbow would have given, bent and we would have had a functional brake. This is why I had so much trouble refitting them, I was constantly working against the tension of the springs and linkage pushing the shoes outward!
The fix in the end was some gentle persuasion from a ratchet strap.
With barely any pressure pushing the shoes together, the linkage (elbow) popped and everything settled nicely into place.
Back under the car, I noticed that the equaliser section and the associated brackets were now flopping down. Good rattle candidates, but even once the shoes were adjusted back to correct position this slack remained. I did a bit of reading, then discovered the emergency release process in the boot.
Winding this handle clockwise was slackening the cable from the electric motor, and counter clockwise the reverse. I used this to tighten the central cable up a touch so that the slack was removed from the system without applying the brakes. I think this SHOULD be an electronic calibration process, so it may well reset the first time I drive the car - but it's something I can speak with Ferrari about.
With the undertray still laid on the drive, I took a good look at it. I knew from the previous removal that the plastic had broken in a couple of places which meant that not all the clips and fixings were in use.
(that's brake cleaner, not gearbox or engine oil!)
I had some time over the weekend, so attempted a fix.
Into the garage with an old fibreglass kit I had laying around:
Gave it a good clean in the repair areas, then got to work cutting some matting to fit.
The finished article 24hrs later:
It feels pretty strong. There's no reason for these trailing end fixings to be taking any real stress. They're just pinning the undertray to the diffuser. The heavy lifting and structural fixings are all inboard of the panel and involve M6 bolts and big washers to spread the load. I feel like these have broken because of poor handling of the undertray, if you remove all fixings from the front to the back - then the whole weight of the undertray would be on these, and is likely what caused it.
With the car buttoned back up the following morning, I also swapped the rear tyres over and went for a drive. I'd not done anything that I thought would fix the noise, remember I'd already ruled out the handbrake shoes by driving without them in the car at all. For the first 5 miles the noise was there, but almost silent. Could barely hear it above road noise when above 30mph which gave me real hope that maybe it WAS handbrake shoes (possibly from the OSR) and that my cable readjustment had lessened it off.
However, some miles later the noise returned back to it's previous levels.
Still, despite this I've not completely ruled out the handbrake. If the computer has readjusted the cable back to its previous point then it may have reintroduced the noise over a few miles - but it is now feeling like a long shot.
I was still in high spirits though, undertray repairs had gone well and it felt good to refit the undertray with ALL of its fixings. Gave the car a wash and called it a weekend.
Next steps are to go to Ferrari, on Wednesday this week. It needs a follow up check to inspect the cleaned up PTU oil from the annual service and we'll have a discussion about possibly renewing the Power15 warranty. Whilst its in, I WILL replicate the noise with a technician and see what they say.
Feirny said:
Morning Kyle, not sure if you’re aware of the ricambiamerica.com website with all the parts catalogues available.
May be of some use to you as I know you’re a bit of a geek like myself.
I am now May be of some use to you as I know you’re a bit of a geek like myself.
very useful ta. There are a few good Ferrari parts websites with searchable parts diagrams etc, it amazes me not more people are DIY'ing them. They make it pretty easy.Thanks for the other comments, I'm still not sure if I enjoy working on the FF yet. It's equal parts incredible engineering and shocking kitcar design
Dropped the FF off at JCT Ferrari today, as a follow up inspection from the PTU oil but also decided to pull the trigger on another year of the Power15 warranty. I was 50:50 on it right up until walking through the doors, at which point I just got giddy seeing the workshop and decided to go ahead.
Also took a tech out again to try and replicate my noise and once again, it was extremely hard to pick out. I think it's the wet roads that we always seem to have when I'm at the dealer, and it's very frustrating because I can't do it justice.
We could hear it, but it was very faint under the wet-road noise. He suggested it might just be normal diff noise in the V12s :/ I'm very much not convinced, and I think he'd suggest otherwise if he could hear it at its worst.
Still, he's going to get the car on the ramp and get it running so he can poke around with a stethoscope and see what comes out. Fingers crossed he finds something, I'll be pretty disheartened if this is just something I have to live with.
Had a bitter sweet update from Leeds Ferrari today.
Despite being unable to clearly replicate my "noise", the workshop undertook a thorough investigation including spinning the drivetrain up with the car suspended. Eventually the NSR wheel bearing was identified as kaput.
Additionally, on a test drive the tech noted that the front end of the car felt particularly floaty, which was later identified as torn bushes on the front wishbones.
Preparing myself for a big number, the service manager then reported that all had been dealt with under the warranty! I thought the Power15 warranty was much more limited than this and was only drivetrain related stuff. Never in a thousand years I thought it covered suspension and wheel bearings.
So that's the sweet bit!
We then got onto other discoveries from the warranty renewal inspection and was told that my front brake discs were dead. Yes, these are the same discs subject to the bolt chapter of this story which makes that whole triumphant tale completely redundant.
Apparently weighing in at 98% worn and delaminating on the inside edge of both discs.
The bottom line is that new discs and pads on the front comes in at a staggering £7k. In fairness to Ferrari Leeds, I can't source the parts and fit myself for less, which sucks for thread content but makes the decision to just get it done a bit more straight forward.
At time of typing, I've not authorised the work but it's feeling like I should just get it done. I promised myself that this car would be handled appropriately and the that no shortcuts would be taken.*
This does beg some questions though.
Why were the bushes not identified when Ferrari had the car previously and did an alignment on it?
Why were brakes not looked at during service?
The independent specialist that originally helped me with bolt advice had my front discs in his hand and commented on some imperfections on the surface. Said something along the lines of keeping an eye on them, but be wary that a main dealer would expect me to change them.
I've been trying to convince myself that the light and quick "Ferrari front end" is something that I'm learning to love. Perhaps these bushes will explain why it was particularly alien to me after coming from other performance cars.
- buy some used discs and hope for the best
- look into Girodisc steels. Probably something I'd do if I intended to keep the car very long term and track it etc.
- look into aftermarket carbon ceramics from Surface Transforms or similar
On balance I'm pretty happy with the call. Paying £7k on brakes is just eye watering... Especially after doing that on my Lotus already this year but if you'd have offered me a £7k bill and rest covered under warranty when I was sat nervously traveling down to London on that train for collection day... I'd have bitten your hand off.
It also has added a LOT of value to what I perceived as a very limited Warranty before, which gives me confidence in longer term ownership.
Despite being unable to clearly replicate my "noise", the workshop undertook a thorough investigation including spinning the drivetrain up with the car suspended. Eventually the NSR wheel bearing was identified as kaput.
Additionally, on a test drive the tech noted that the front end of the car felt particularly floaty, which was later identified as torn bushes on the front wishbones.
Preparing myself for a big number, the service manager then reported that all had been dealt with under the warranty! I thought the Power15 warranty was much more limited than this and was only drivetrain related stuff. Never in a thousand years I thought it covered suspension and wheel bearings.
So that's the sweet bit!
We then got onto other discoveries from the warranty renewal inspection and was told that my front brake discs were dead. Yes, these are the same discs subject to the bolt chapter of this story which makes that whole triumphant tale completely redundant.
Apparently weighing in at 98% worn and delaminating on the inside edge of both discs.
The bottom line is that new discs and pads on the front comes in at a staggering £7k. In fairness to Ferrari Leeds, I can't source the parts and fit myself for less, which sucks for thread content but makes the decision to just get it done a bit more straight forward.
At time of typing, I've not authorised the work but it's feeling like I should just get it done. I promised myself that this car would be handled appropriately and the that no shortcuts would be taken.*
This does beg some questions though.
Why were the bushes not identified when Ferrari had the car previously and did an alignment on it?
Why were brakes not looked at during service?
The independent specialist that originally helped me with bolt advice had my front discs in his hand and commented on some imperfections on the surface. Said something along the lines of keeping an eye on them, but be wary that a main dealer would expect me to change them.
I've been trying to convince myself that the light and quick "Ferrari front end" is something that I'm learning to love. Perhaps these bushes will explain why it was particularly alien to me after coming from other performance cars.
- The only shortcuts I can think of are:
- buy some used discs and hope for the best
- look into Girodisc steels. Probably something I'd do if I intended to keep the car very long term and track it etc.
- look into aftermarket carbon ceramics from Surface Transforms or similar
On balance I'm pretty happy with the call. Paying £7k on brakes is just eye watering... Especially after doing that on my Lotus already this year
but if you'd have offered me a £7k bill and rest covered under warranty when I was sat nervously traveling down to London on that train for collection day... I'd have bitten your hand off.It also has added a LOT of value to what I perceived as a very limited Warranty before, which gives me confidence in longer term ownership.
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