Jaguar F-Pace Non Runner

[surveyor]

Never had there been so much agreement in the life of Pistonheads!

[fttm]

As above , enough is enough kick it into touch .

[M4cruiser]

fttm said:

As above , enough is enough kick it into touch .

You're being a bit premature ,,,,, I'm expecting a post at 7am Wednesday morning (tomorrow) to say "I've been up all night, whipped out the starter motor, and alternator and battery, all ok so I changed the engine instead"

[MDifficult]

Okay guys, who’s got his address? I think we need to stage an intervention!

Either that, or we nuke the car from orbit - it’s the only way to be sure

[Escy]

I have had a quick look at it, I removed the starter motor so I could get a pry bar in the flex plate (can't get a socket on the crank pulley). The engine isn't locked up which is good news.

I fitted the spare starter motor that came with the replacement engine but that doesn't work either. I connected the original starter motor that was on it when it wouldn't start this morning to plug on the solenoid and power and ground and tried to crank to see what would happen. The pinion comes out but it doesn't spin.

IMG_20240514_212056630

I need to check what the starter motor that's currently fitted to see what it does when it's not bolted up, I'm expecting the same. Then I need to check the wiring.on the plug for the solenoid, it's different to all the other starter motors I've seen, this has two wires rather than just the ignition switch. I've checked the fuses shown on the diagram and they are fine.

Screenshot 2024-05-14 235725

drdino said:

How's the battery?

I think it's about 8 months old.

Austin_Metro said:

Escy - fingers crossed for you mate.

Mrs Escy - you must be the most patient wife.

She was crying this morning.

eliot said:

you are going to be on the wrong end of a divorce at this rate that’s going to cost a dam sight more that this stinking turd.

It's her car so I'll let her decide.what she wants to do. She really likes it.

M3333 said:

You're polishing a turd mate. Hopefully this is something simple. But for your sanity take it straight to WBAC!!

They are offering 7k, so that's never going to happen.

[ecsrobin]

Escy said:

It's her car so I'll let her decide.what she wants to do. She really likes it.

Sorry to kick you whilst down but look where that has got you, she’s broken down multiple times and you’ve thrown more money than you could have got a decent runner or a cheap new car for with warranty. There’s only so long someone can keep saying I like it before enough is enough.

I suspect the reason she likes it is to keep you out the house.

I know you’ll get it running again but there’s a reason so many are saying time to weigh it in.

[Tom4398cc]

I’m going against the tide of PH opinion, but for what it’s worth, I think Escy should keep going with it. Every time this car has let him down, he’s cracked on and used his own skills, time and admirable attitude to get it fixed. So if he’s still got the patience for it, hats off to him if he continues with it.

[Stick Legs]

Tom4398cc said:

I’m going against the tide of PH opinion, but for what it’s worth, I think Escy should keep going with it. Every time this car has let him down, he’s cracked on and used his own skills, time and admirable attitude to get it fixed. So if he’s still got the patience for it, hats off to him if he continues with it.

^^^This.

[Vsix and Vtec]

Not that it's any of my business, but I think if my partner loved her car like Mrs Escy does, and she was heartbroken every time it stopped working, I too would be working night and day to make her smile again. I admired your capability already Escy, but knowing now the driving force is also due in part to securing your wife's happiness, I salute your devotion. There really are some things you prize more highly than a few quid, so I for one will be cheering you on for as long as you both choose that path with this car.

[Hammer67]

If Mrs Escy is that attached to it could you not sell her and the Jag as a job lot?

[larrylamb11]

I've had an incredibly difficult 'failure to start' issue before where there was corrosion inside the battery terminal where the lead was clamped to the terminal that allowed low amperage 12v to pass, energising all the 12v electrics, but as soon as you tried to engage the high amperage draw starter motor the corrosion prevented enough amps from reaching the starter to spin it... even though it would 'click' and all the other electrics worked....
It took some finding!
A test involved clipping another battery to the high amp connections on the starter and then using the car's electrics to energise the solenoid.... at which point the starter engaged and started the engine. Once we knew the starter wasn't defective (it had been off and rebuilt twice by that point!) we were able to work back through the main power cable and eventually came to the terminal itself. You couldn't see any issue, but changing it resolved the problem and an autopsy revealed corrosion inside.
If the starter works on the bench, but not on the car you'd it's a weird one and you'll just have to follow the breadcrumbs. At least the engine isn't seized!
Good luck Escy! I know we're all rooting for you.

[Escy]

larrylamb11 said:

I've had an incredibly difficult 'failure to start' issue before where there was corrosion inside the battery terminal where the lead was clamped to the terminal that allowed low amperage 12v to pass, energising all the 12v electrics, but as soon as you tried to engage the high amperage draw starter motor the corrosion prevented enough amps from reaching the starter to spin it... even though it would 'click' and all the other electrics worked....
It took some finding!
A test involved clipping another battery to the high amp connections on the starter and then using the car's electrics to energise the solenoid.... at which point the starter engaged and started the engine. Once we knew the starter wasn't defective (it had been off and rebuilt twice by that point!) we were able to work back through the main power cable and eventually came to the terminal itself. You couldn't see any issue, but changing it resolved the problem and an autopsy revealed corrosion inside.
If the starter works on the bench, but not on the car you'd it's a weird one and you'll just have to follow the breadcrumbs. At least the engine isn't seized!
Good luck Escy! I know we're all rooting for you.

That's a great post. Thank you for sharing. When I searched the internet for the generic non start fault code I did find a forum post about a guy with a Jaguar XE where the main power cable running under the car had pulled apart where there was a factory splice. I'll use your technique of another battery directly on the starter motor but using the car to activate the solenoid.

[MarkwG]

Stick Legs said:

Tom4398cc said:

I’m going against the tide of PH opinion, but for what it’s worth, I think Escy should keep going with it. Every time this car has let him down, he’s cracked on and used his own skills, time and admirable attitude to get it fixed. So if he’s still got the patience for it, hats off to him if he continues with it.

^^^This.

I'm in the same frame of mind.

[MarkwG]

Apologies if already considered & dismissed - an immobiliser issue somewhere? The second wire makes me think it's returning a signal to the ECU, which it's not doing for some reason? Might be the key, for example?

[Fastdruid]

larrylamb11 said:

I've had an incredibly difficult 'failure to start' issue before where there was corrosion inside the battery terminal where the lead was clamped to the terminal that allowed low amperage 12v to pass, energising all the 12v electrics, but as soon as you tried to engage the high amperage draw starter motor the corrosion prevented enough amps from reaching the starter to spin it... even though it would 'click' and all the other electrics worked....
It took some finding!

I've had similar on a bike. Although that just died with what appeared to be no electrics.

Turn ign on, though and would get the warning lights, hit the starter and it dies. Cycle power and lights again.

Turned out to be corrosion on the main earth from the battery to the frame. Enough for the "low power" warning lights, not enough to supply the starter. Cleaned it up with a bit of emery paper, re-assembled with some copperslip (for anti-corrosion rather than any electrical conductivity reasons as I didn't have anything more suitable) and it was fine.

[BricktopST205]

This could just be a teething issue for the last engine swap. For all we know after this he could have tens of thousands of easy miles.

At least he has shown the public great consumer advice and to avoid anything with an ingenium engine in it however.

[Dr G]

BricktopST205 said:

This could just be a teething issue for the last engine swap. For all we know after this he could have tens of thousands of easy miles.

At least he has shown the public great consumer advice and to avoid anything with an ingenium engine in it however.

I'm with you; teething issues after engine swaps are almost to be expected.

...and the awful line I've used a few times "friends don't let friends buy JLR".

[surveyor]

Is there such a thing as 'Jaguars Anonymous'?

I mean I get it could just be a teething problem.. But how many teething problems does a car have before it becomes addictive. And Escy has become addicted.

I'm properly impressed with his wife though. Mine would have banned the car from the house by now...

[33q]

You have to keep going....I'm so impressed with your skills and patience

[oakdale]

I think these cars have an auxiliary battery which could be fooling you, test the voltage on the main battery when you're trying to start the car.