1988 Mitsubishi Shogun 2.6 HT BBR Turbo
Discussion
Hi,
At some point last week I was quite sure that I needed to buy, sight unseen, from ebay a late 1980's long wheel base, Mitsubishi Shogun 2.6 which has a period BBR Turbocharged engine conversion. Having bid and won it for the sum of £460 unfortunately I can't remember what the reason was.
Edit (January 2013): If you wish to save yourself a few pages, here is the truck back three months later looking a great deal better. I've already done 160 miles over the weekend with no problems but this does remain a work in progress.
Anyway, back to the story.
It was trailered down at the weekend and has sat on my drive demanding some attention but all I've felt was the sense that I was eating a ball of rust. You may gather from this that the truck is less than pristine and in fact has rust pretty much everywhere. So, after a poor few nights sleep concerned about what a fool I've been I've started to spend money which always seems to calm the nerves.
Firstly, a battery as the seller kindly walked off with the one fitted, together in fact with the clips, which as I hadn't initially noticed, involved two separate trips to the autoshop.
One Yuasa Pro-battery £85, two battery lugs £8, followed by TPFT insurance through Adrian Flux at £235 and £121 of RFL; tomorrow I'm going to attempt the journey to my mechanics garage so that we can start a proper assessment.
I've already started the ebay search for old brochures and having found a period BBR press release which states the following:
BBR Shogun Turbo Phase Two + 90 bhp = 190 bhp*
Includes full Garrett (T3) turbo assembly, weber carburettor, oil cooler assembly, boost gauge, intercooler assembly, automatic advance/retard ignition, 2.25" S/S exhasut system. Cost £2,685 fitted (1988 prices)
Phase three included a re-worked head, modified suspension, wheels & tyres at £4,235 and produced performance figures (according to Performance Car) of 0 to 60mph in 7.6 seconds and a standing quarter of a mile in 15.8 seconds (about as fast as my Renault 5 Turbo then).
...perhaps I've remembered the reason why I felt so strongly that I needed to own and restore the Shogun.
At some point last week I was quite sure that I needed to buy, sight unseen, from ebay a late 1980's long wheel base, Mitsubishi Shogun 2.6 which has a period BBR Turbocharged engine conversion. Having bid and won it for the sum of £460 unfortunately I can't remember what the reason was.
Edit (January 2013): If you wish to save yourself a few pages, here is the truck back three months later looking a great deal better. I've already done 160 miles over the weekend with no problems but this does remain a work in progress.
Anyway, back to the story.
It was trailered down at the weekend and has sat on my drive demanding some attention but all I've felt was the sense that I was eating a ball of rust. You may gather from this that the truck is less than pristine and in fact has rust pretty much everywhere. So, after a poor few nights sleep concerned about what a fool I've been I've started to spend money which always seems to calm the nerves.
Firstly, a battery as the seller kindly walked off with the one fitted, together in fact with the clips, which as I hadn't initially noticed, involved two separate trips to the autoshop.
One Yuasa Pro-battery £85, two battery lugs £8, followed by TPFT insurance through Adrian Flux at £235 and £121 of RFL; tomorrow I'm going to attempt the journey to my mechanics garage so that we can start a proper assessment.
I've already started the ebay search for old brochures and having found a period BBR press release which states the following:
BBR Shogun Turbo Phase Two + 90 bhp = 190 bhp*
Includes full Garrett (T3) turbo assembly, weber carburettor, oil cooler assembly, boost gauge, intercooler assembly, automatic advance/retard ignition, 2.25" S/S exhasut system. Cost £2,685 fitted (1988 prices)
Phase three included a re-worked head, modified suspension, wheels & tyres at £4,235 and produced performance figures (according to Performance Car) of 0 to 60mph in 7.6 seconds and a standing quarter of a mile in 15.8 seconds (about as fast as my Renault 5 Turbo then).
...perhaps I've remembered the reason why I felt so strongly that I needed to own and restore the Shogun.
- I have e.mailed BBR to see if they can give me any information on the conversion. This appears particuarly important as they offerred a menu of engine enhancements & suspension componenets; with specific power outputs ranging from 140 to 240 bhp.
Edited by TurboBlue on Wednesday 23 January 11:30
Thanks for all the replies.
The Shogun made it safely to the garage today, with the turbo whistling merrily to itself too, and has been on a ramp for an inspection. The resulting list, quoted below plus service items, is long but make the truck a go, at least to me:
"Looked at the shogun and the chassis is all good and no holes anywhere. List of things noted:
- front brakes binding
- steering box leak
- play in steering box
- rear brakes binding
- rear diff oil leak, I think from the drain plug
- front brake hoses cracked
- front anti roll bar bushes cracked
- slight leak from clutch slave cylinder
- shock absorber bushes cracked and worn
- exhaust manifold gasket blowing
- spark plugs worn
- brake and clutch fluid dirty.
It has an LSD fitted to the rear axle.
Stripped a few part of the carb but this needs to be removed, stripped and cleaned because the jets are blocked, hence it won’t run on part throttle and its all very dirty in there.
Greased up the front suspension as this was dry and the prop shafts, re-mounted the exhaust so this is not touching the body now, fitted the battery terminals correctly (see I can't even manage that, my italics about me).
It requires a good steam clean to get all the mud and oil from underneath and then we can see what needs painting."
Bear in mind that I bought this with an MoT, valid until February 2013.
So, here's a picture or two of it in the sun; keep this in mind because we have a cunning plan;
and here's one from a period BBR brochure, this is what I'm aiming for (without DLT naturally).
The LSD was a pleasant surprise and must have been fitted by BBR or later and just adds to the reasons why I'm keen to keep this on the road.
To answer a couple of the questions; apparantly BBR did a conversion for the Trooper too but I've not seen one, ever. It's going to be a rolling restoration, with the aim of getting a period look with perhaps a modern twist. I'm reliably informed that the 2.6L engine is the same as used in the Mitsubishi Starion - here's a wiki link for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starion
Thanks again for the encouragement, I'll keep updating the blog as we progress.
The Shogun made it safely to the garage today, with the turbo whistling merrily to itself too, and has been on a ramp for an inspection. The resulting list, quoted below plus service items, is long but make the truck a go, at least to me:
"Looked at the shogun and the chassis is all good and no holes anywhere. List of things noted:
- front brakes binding
- steering box leak
- play in steering box
- rear brakes binding
- rear diff oil leak, I think from the drain plug
- front brake hoses cracked
- front anti roll bar bushes cracked
- slight leak from clutch slave cylinder
- shock absorber bushes cracked and worn
- exhaust manifold gasket blowing
- spark plugs worn
- brake and clutch fluid dirty.
It has an LSD fitted to the rear axle.
Stripped a few part of the carb but this needs to be removed, stripped and cleaned because the jets are blocked, hence it won’t run on part throttle and its all very dirty in there.
Greased up the front suspension as this was dry and the prop shafts, re-mounted the exhaust so this is not touching the body now, fitted the battery terminals correctly (see I can't even manage that, my italics about me).
It requires a good steam clean to get all the mud and oil from underneath and then we can see what needs painting."
Bear in mind that I bought this with an MoT, valid until February 2013.
So, here's a picture or two of it in the sun; keep this in mind because we have a cunning plan;
and here's one from a period BBR brochure, this is what I'm aiming for (without DLT naturally).
The LSD was a pleasant surprise and must have been fitted by BBR or later and just adds to the reasons why I'm keen to keep this on the road.
To answer a couple of the questions; apparantly BBR did a conversion for the Trooper too but I've not seen one, ever. It's going to be a rolling restoration, with the aim of getting a period look with perhaps a modern twist. I'm reliably informed that the 2.6L engine is the same as used in the Mitsubishi Starion - here's a wiki link for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starion
Thanks again for the encouragement, I'll keep updating the blog as we progress.
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:50
Bv8 said:
Good luck with this one Simon.
Hi Jeremy, good to hear from you - looking forward to seeing the MGB GT V8 on the road, the summer perhaps? As mentioned above I failed to correctly install the battery so anything electro-mechanical has to be dealt with by the professionals & the gifted. I have however spent this morning with a steam pressure cleaner getting down and dirty with the chassis, unbelievably the chassis appears perfectly sound, so as you say we are concentrating on the mechanics & electrics.Scott from SG Motorsport has stripped the carburettor that was part of the BBR upgrade - it is a Weber 32/34 DMTT - and the jets are blocked from all the rubbish caused by the breaking down of the old intercooler & associated hoses. A re-build kit should be with Scott next week.
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:51
MrMoonyMan said:
That things gonna be hilarious when you get it up and running properly.
I certainly hope so.TVR Sagaris said:
- big fan of old Shoguns and never knew this conversion existed.
Here's the back of the BBR advert; lots of lovely information about specifications and options, unfortunately BBR have been unable to confirm any details of the conversion so we will have to pick our way through. The engine is either the 190bhp or the 240bhp conversion as it has an air-to-air intercooler mounted so it's probably a phase two but we'll have to wait and see what else lies in store. Note, that the crossings out were not done by me!
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:53
Do you remember this:
Intercooler, is it supposed to be almost round
Later Scott removed the Turbocharger, I have nothing to add;
and the exhasut manifold; note, it's bespoke & been welded up before;
it looks worse in this picture;
I am disappointed with how this all looks but the truck is 25 years old and clearly it has not been loved for a very long time; we will plough on.
Kev T360 said:
This is very cool indeed, good luck getting her fixed up, hope there's no hidden surprises!
Today I had a go with Scott's spanners with a view to getting the intercooler off to see what condition it was in and to get the pipework cleaned up & new hoses ordered. Not unexpectedly we've run into a few 'local difficulties'; they are perhaps best explained with the help of some photographs (deep breath now):Intercooler, is it supposed to be almost round
Later Scott removed the Turbocharger, I have nothing to add;
and the exhasut manifold; note, it's bespoke & been welded up before;
it looks worse in this picture;
I am disappointed with how this all looks but the truck is 25 years old and clearly it has not been loved for a very long time; we will plough on.
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:57
Hi, I’d like to thank you all again for the encouragement; we are in this for the long haul.
I think that yesterday the BBR restoration reached that critical point where I had to decide that I was fully committed; the list of actual and potential concerns was and is growing each day but I am going to hold on to my original purpose; to bring something rare back to life, to get involved in it’s restoration (despite my limited skills) and ultimately for it to be paired up with this in a classic period tow car & racer combo:
Renault 5 Turbo 1
Anyway, enough of the dreaming, on with the work:
In a bid to clean up the whole intake side of the engine the intercooler is going to be replaced and the air filter and intercooler pipe work is going to be cleaned and painted.
The turbocharger is going to Universal Turbo's to be rebuilt along with T3 that belongs to the 5 Turbo. The exhaust manifold remains a concern and I’m hopeful that we can have it made good. I’m going to wield a spanner again tomorrow & remove the radiator and deliver it for re-coring.
In trying to establish a way forward at the start of this project it became clear that the BBR Shogun had many failed ancillaries and weak points (the current MOT came with 16 advisories) ranging from an unsecured battery to a leaking steering box.
In addition, although the chassis is sound, the bodywork is not, all four doors are rusty and the OSR perforated and the wings & bonnet were in a very poor condition, the photo on page one makes this clear. Trims and mirrors are also missing, the grille badge & rear vent in particular.
Furthermore, the interior is tired, there is no carpet in the boot and in particular all four door panels have large holes where aftermarket speakers have been fitted & removed.
It quickly became apparent that although these items are available at breakers, individually they add up to an enormous cost. So, what do you do when you have one Shogun; obviously you buy another one.
A further eBay purchase, I know, but try finding a cheap/spares/repair Mk1 anyway else, at the bargain price of £300 has netted a Mitsubishi Shogun 3.0 V6 LWB Mk 1.
It is going to resolve a good number of the outstanding issues & will provide a handy backup of easily broken parts such as lights that can be removed and stored before the Shogun is scrapped.
Bonnet & grille, going to lose the V6; perhaps have a BBR Turbo motif made up;
Alloy wheels, period Mk 1 wheels fitted with good tyres & we now have 5 together with a spare wheel cover;
Rear door – all good, especially the door cards;
Front door – as above;
The bumpers are in good condition & it has poly bushed anti roll bar bushes, a proper tow hook and new front shocks and a refurbished steering box. There's even a battery clamp.
Unfortunately not all is good, in fact the chassis is poor (MOT fail) & the at least one of the front wings, which we had wished to use, is toast.
The observant amongst will also of noticed my major fail on this one too; it is not the same shade of blue but for the purposes of this ‘rolling restoration’ I hope you won’t quibble.
I hope that you too are enjoying the ride.
I think that yesterday the BBR restoration reached that critical point where I had to decide that I was fully committed; the list of actual and potential concerns was and is growing each day but I am going to hold on to my original purpose; to bring something rare back to life, to get involved in it’s restoration (despite my limited skills) and ultimately for it to be paired up with this in a classic period tow car & racer combo:
Renault 5 Turbo 1
Anyway, enough of the dreaming, on with the work:
In a bid to clean up the whole intake side of the engine the intercooler is going to be replaced and the air filter and intercooler pipe work is going to be cleaned and painted.
The turbocharger is going to Universal Turbo's to be rebuilt along with T3 that belongs to the 5 Turbo. The exhaust manifold remains a concern and I’m hopeful that we can have it made good. I’m going to wield a spanner again tomorrow & remove the radiator and deliver it for re-coring.
In trying to establish a way forward at the start of this project it became clear that the BBR Shogun had many failed ancillaries and weak points (the current MOT came with 16 advisories) ranging from an unsecured battery to a leaking steering box.
In addition, although the chassis is sound, the bodywork is not, all four doors are rusty and the OSR perforated and the wings & bonnet were in a very poor condition, the photo on page one makes this clear. Trims and mirrors are also missing, the grille badge & rear vent in particular.
Furthermore, the interior is tired, there is no carpet in the boot and in particular all four door panels have large holes where aftermarket speakers have been fitted & removed.
It quickly became apparent that although these items are available at breakers, individually they add up to an enormous cost. So, what do you do when you have one Shogun; obviously you buy another one.
A further eBay purchase, I know, but try finding a cheap/spares/repair Mk1 anyway else, at the bargain price of £300 has netted a Mitsubishi Shogun 3.0 V6 LWB Mk 1.
It is going to resolve a good number of the outstanding issues & will provide a handy backup of easily broken parts such as lights that can be removed and stored before the Shogun is scrapped.
Bonnet & grille, going to lose the V6; perhaps have a BBR Turbo motif made up;
Alloy wheels, period Mk 1 wheels fitted with good tyres & we now have 5 together with a spare wheel cover;
Rear door – all good, especially the door cards;
Front door – as above;
The bumpers are in good condition & it has poly bushed anti roll bar bushes, a proper tow hook and new front shocks and a refurbished steering box. There's even a battery clamp.
Unfortunately not all is good, in fact the chassis is poor (MOT fail) & the at least one of the front wings, which we had wished to use, is toast.
The observant amongst will also of noticed my major fail on this one too; it is not the same shade of blue but for the purposes of this ‘rolling restoration’ I hope you won’t quibble.
I hope that you too are enjoying the ride.
Edited by TurboBlue on Wednesday 21st November 00:44
Hi,
Should be a couple of updates over the course of the next week but just as a teaser here's another BBR brochure picture, this one from circa. 1985; I don't know who did the marketing for BBR but it's not often you see beige/yellow cars in adverts, anyway, enjoy:
The brochure has also cleared up an outstanding question about boost pressure, it appears that the recommendation is for 8 psi or 0.5 bar which I think will be sufficient!
Should be a couple of updates over the course of the next week but just as a teaser here's another BBR brochure picture, this one from circa. 1985; I don't know who did the marketing for BBR but it's not often you see beige/yellow cars in adverts, anyway, enjoy:
The brochure has also cleared up an outstanding question about boost pressure, it appears that the recommendation is for 8 psi or 0.5 bar which I think will be sufficient!
Edited by TurboBlue on Wednesday 21st November 00:35
Hi,
Slowly starting to get the pieces back together:
Picked up the re-cored radiator;
Together with lots of SAMCO in bright blue;
The carburettor plenium, air filter (for which we now have a K&N filter), and intercooler pipe work has been chemically cleaned and blasted with a fine powder by Malmesbury Metal Cleaning. They have done a lovely job and wrapped the steel items in cling film to keep the onset of rust at bay.
I’ve made up my own spray booth to coat them in primer out of a cardboard box and some metal railing from a slide; going to coat them tonight, one side at a time, two hours in between.
I’ve also purchased some of this – seems to be doing the job really well.
I am hoping to get to grips with the V6 to swap the bumpers and remove the wings, so that we can get at the doors but time and the weather has been against me but we may yet get there this week – I also have to set up for this on Saturday; if it’s wet it becomes a complete nightmare and yes that’s me in the smoke.
Regards, Simon
Slowly starting to get the pieces back together:
Picked up the re-cored radiator;
Together with lots of SAMCO in bright blue;
The carburettor plenium, air filter (for which we now have a K&N filter), and intercooler pipe work has been chemically cleaned and blasted with a fine powder by Malmesbury Metal Cleaning. They have done a lovely job and wrapped the steel items in cling film to keep the onset of rust at bay.
I’ve made up my own spray booth to coat them in primer out of a cardboard box and some metal railing from a slide; going to coat them tonight, one side at a time, two hours in between.
I’ve also purchased some of this – seems to be doing the job really well.
I am hoping to get to grips with the V6 to swap the bumpers and remove the wings, so that we can get at the doors but time and the weather has been against me but we may yet get there this week – I also have to set up for this on Saturday; if it’s wet it becomes a complete nightmare and yes that’s me in the smoke.
Regards, Simon
Edited by TurboBlue on Wednesday 21st November 00:16
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 27th November 00:21
Hi,
Started but didn’t finish some stripping work on the V6; swapped the grille’s; removed the side lenses, headlamps to follow (to be saved for replacements), front bumper (to replace the rather tired BBR items) came off but couldn’t get the back one off with two obstructive bolts and a rather short socket handle; I’ve also removed most of the nuts holding the front wings on (so that we can swap over the doors) together with the inner mud guards, but couldn’t free the last couple so that too will have to wait.
This is why the doors have to go;
Here’s a picture of after. Do you like the later Mk 1 grille or do you prefer the earlier slated version; personally I’m inclined to the earlier simpler version but it’s an easy swap and perhaps I’ll keep both! Sorry had to lose the former picture as photobucket keeps loading the unedited version (including reistration mark as this is going to scrap).
The BBR is about two inches lower than the V6 (see the first of the pictures above), taken together with the great s/s down pipe off the turbo/manifold I’m going to put my neck out and suggest that this is the 240 Mogul specification; I’m now quite excited to ask Scott at SG Motorsport to take the head off to confirm but I’m going to have to be patient.
Here’s the turbo boost & the oil pressure gauge’s – lots of little nice touches, shame the sticker has been worn away – 24 years old though.
Having read up a bit more about the truck it appears the LSD was a factory option which has been fitted to the BBR. Both the intercooler & manifold have been sent away for repairs so we are making progress.
Regards
Simon
Started but didn’t finish some stripping work on the V6; swapped the grille’s; removed the side lenses, headlamps to follow (to be saved for replacements), front bumper (to replace the rather tired BBR items) came off but couldn’t get the back one off with two obstructive bolts and a rather short socket handle; I’ve also removed most of the nuts holding the front wings on (so that we can swap over the doors) together with the inner mud guards, but couldn’t free the last couple so that too will have to wait.
This is why the doors have to go;
Here’s a picture of after. Do you like the later Mk 1 grille or do you prefer the earlier slated version; personally I’m inclined to the earlier simpler version but it’s an easy swap and perhaps I’ll keep both! Sorry had to lose the former picture as photobucket keeps loading the unedited version (including reistration mark as this is going to scrap).
The BBR is about two inches lower than the V6 (see the first of the pictures above), taken together with the great s/s down pipe off the turbo/manifold I’m going to put my neck out and suggest that this is the 240 Mogul specification; I’m now quite excited to ask Scott at SG Motorsport to take the head off to confirm but I’m going to have to be patient.
Here’s the turbo boost & the oil pressure gauge’s – lots of little nice touches, shame the sticker has been worn away – 24 years old though.
Having read up a bit more about the truck it appears the LSD was a factory option which has been fitted to the BBR. Both the intercooler & manifold have been sent away for repairs so we are making progress.
Regards
Simon
Edited by TurboBlue on Wednesday 21st November 00:03
jamiebae said:
Heat is your friend when stripping down an old Shogun, I think I emptied an entire butane canister trying to remove the bull-bars from ours!
I hear you but the idea of me & butane next to the fuel (petrol) tank is one no-one in his right mind would recommend; I'm hopeful that a more manly socket arm will remove the offending bolts in short order.jamiebae said:
Targeted heat on the bolt itself should still be fine, even if you are near the fuel tank, as long as you're not blasting the tank itself. Otherwise, a scaffold pole on the end of a breaker bar will hopefully do the job!
Thankyou. I'm very new to this - working on your own car and I'm a bit nervous about getting it wrong - but I am really enjoying it & I have almost the perfect simple vehicle on which to work. I am grateful for your help and encouragement.Edited by TurboBlue on Friday 2nd November 21:12
Bv8 said:
I think the replacement pipe system will look great, must view that for B.
Jeremy, the primer is zinc-rich, apparently 93% zinc once dry so I’m putting on a second coat and when it’s dry (96 hrs) and I’m going to polish up the intercooler pipes with some wire wool. What could possibly go wrong?John_S4x4 said:
What are the words on the right hand side of the sticker?
The photo is about as good as it gets but I’d suggest it something like this (based on how the text is centred):Turbo Running
Do not boost cold or
Low engine oil
After hard driving
Avoid Excessive
Engine Revs
Use 4 star fuel only
What do you think? Does anyone have one from an in-period Sierra Mogul or MX-5 Turbo conversion?
I do intend to replace all of the BBR stickers & graphics; if you look have a look at the advert on page one & two, there are at least five bespoke vinyl graphics on the car: bonnet, both front and both rear wings, possibly the rear door too but in reality they will have to wait for paint; and that is the very last job on the (enormous) list of “to do’s”.
As we are running real time in this restoration, it will be a few days before the next update.
Hi,
Finally got the wings and the rear bumper off the V6; I’ve taken out the boot carpet as the BBR’s is missing (I hope at some time in the future to have a full pattern made up and a replacement carpet and felt stitched up).
The V6 inner wings have some corrosion; hopefully the BBR will have been luckier.
Universal Turbo’s are going to rebuild the turbo - renewing pretty much everything; the quote is £425.00 plus VAT. They have advised a turnaround of just a couple of days so with the carburettor gently degreasing in a tub of brake fluid and all the other components being fettled or sourced we are quite close to getting the engine running.
Polished up; this and all the other refurbished ancillaries are all going to look quite incongruous in the engine bay but like good restoration it will be clear what is old & what is new.
I’m going to attempt the trickier job of removing the wings from the BBR tomorrow, which need to be saved, and then we can deal with any rust on the inner wing and start the transfer of the doors.
Regards
Simon
Finally got the wings and the rear bumper off the V6; I’ve taken out the boot carpet as the BBR’s is missing (I hope at some time in the future to have a full pattern made up and a replacement carpet and felt stitched up).
The V6 inner wings have some corrosion; hopefully the BBR will have been luckier.
Universal Turbo’s are going to rebuild the turbo - renewing pretty much everything; the quote is £425.00 plus VAT. They have advised a turnaround of just a couple of days so with the carburettor gently degreasing in a tub of brake fluid and all the other components being fettled or sourced we are quite close to getting the engine running.
Polished up; this and all the other refurbished ancillaries are all going to look quite incongruous in the engine bay but like good restoration it will be clear what is old & what is new.
I’m going to attempt the trickier job of removing the wings from the BBR tomorrow, which need to be saved, and then we can deal with any rust on the inner wing and start the transfer of the doors.
Regards
Simon
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:35
Hi,
The turbo(s) came back today; they have done a fantastic job. This truck is going to get hairy – no anti-lock, no traction control – just me and this!
I am really enjoying myself with this; the satisfaction from removing some front wings without damaging them and slowly dragging the project forward is immense.
The NSF wing belonging to the BBR is in pretty poor shape, which regrettably is also true of the V6 (although that one is worse); the OSF is in better condition; last night after far too long with ‘Google’, I managed to source two new pattern front wings (from Germany) which are on order. Whether I fit them now, or clean up and re-fit the existing wings now depends on how many different colours I want this to be.
The inner wings of the BBR are in much better condition and I will clean up and treat the rust/metal to hopefully stop it coming back (soon). I’ve sent yet more parts to be chemically cleaned & blasted: the sump guard & rear wheel holder; while the carburettor is going to be soda-blasted, which will clean it but leave no residue to block up the jets in the future.
Scott and I mapped out a plan for next week which should see the V6 doors and bonnet donated to the BBR; transfer of missing trim, battery clamp, wiper arms and the alloy wheels and the removal and refitting of the steering box and any other mechanical items that we wish to save. That’s going to keep me busy and pestering Scott for advice; then we might be able to clear the V6 away.
Regards
Simon
The turbo(s) came back today; they have done a fantastic job. This truck is going to get hairy – no anti-lock, no traction control – just me and this!
I am really enjoying myself with this; the satisfaction from removing some front wings without damaging them and slowly dragging the project forward is immense.
The NSF wing belonging to the BBR is in pretty poor shape, which regrettably is also true of the V6 (although that one is worse); the OSF is in better condition; last night after far too long with ‘Google’, I managed to source two new pattern front wings (from Germany) which are on order. Whether I fit them now, or clean up and re-fit the existing wings now depends on how many different colours I want this to be.
The inner wings of the BBR are in much better condition and I will clean up and treat the rust/metal to hopefully stop it coming back (soon). I’ve sent yet more parts to be chemically cleaned & blasted: the sump guard & rear wheel holder; while the carburettor is going to be soda-blasted, which will clean it but leave no residue to block up the jets in the future.
Scott and I mapped out a plan for next week which should see the V6 doors and bonnet donated to the BBR; transfer of missing trim, battery clamp, wiper arms and the alloy wheels and the removal and refitting of the steering box and any other mechanical items that we wish to save. That’s going to keep me busy and pestering Scott for advice; then we might be able to clear the V6 away.
Regards
Simon
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:29
Erwin1978 said:
With the ' fresh' turbo and upcoming healthy power output (what do you reckon?), does the suspension (bushes, springs, etc) need revising as well? Will you keep the suspension standard or make some improvements with more high end stuff?
These are interesting questions and if you forgive me I’ll explain my current thinking: With regard to power, the original BBR intercooled turbo conversion came with an option of 190 bhp or 240 bhp; the higher output appears to be the result of porting work on the head. This car has come with no history and BBR themselves have not been able to confirm details of its specification so it remains a question of removing the intake manifold and seeing the evidence – Scott is confident that we can establish this visually; which is handy because the engine runs smoothly and with good oil pressure so the need not to strip it down & rebuild it remains a saving grace.
Regarding handling, the 240 option, from the period brochures appears to have been only available when a handling pack was included; it was pretty basic though, BBR lowered the Shogun by two & a quarter inches – but as these early 4 cylinder trucks run torsion bars at the front & leaf springs at the back – they simply used blocks at the back & (I assume) dropped the links at the front; additionally, up rated dampers were fitted and the steering geometry was changed but that was the limit of the modifications.
The BBR does sit a good two inches lower than the V6 and it is certainly more firmly sprung than the V6; how much of this is age & lack of use I’m not sure. So, on balance I’m inclined to think that this is the full 240 conversion – whether it will ever show that on a rolling road remains for the future, when my funds have recovered.
With regard to upgrading the handling & perhaps the brakes (drums remain on the rear live axle); these are questions I haven’t formulated final answers to; there are a number of suspension components that are going to be replaced before this goes back on the road but they are fundamentally service items that simply haven’t been done for years; in the near future the dampers will need replacing and if we can establish a non-standard specification then certainly we will do that; I’ve some inkling that the leaf springs could be up rated to parabolic springs (but not to coils) and we will have to see how effective the brakes are in use before I’d consider revising the current set up.
I’m not at all inclined to go down the route of turning this into a retro car with a modern fuel injection engine & driveline – I adore the fact that it has a distributor, a carburettor and that I stand a chance of being able to work on it in the future – the only digital item I’ve yet found on the truck is the clock; so it will remain true to it’s offbeat & very period 1980’s heritage.
Thanks for your interest and apologies for the length of the post but I’ve been giving this a lot of thought recently!
Hi,
Made a start on the list of jobs for the week, started the change over of the wheels and got properly oily by unbolting and removing the steering boxes from both the V6 and the BBR; the V6 box is a recently refurbished item, at c. £150 and it took me about 3 hours to get them both out with a little help from Scott at SG Motorsport. Frankly, I’ve rather surprised myself, the limit of my mechanical ability used to be changing a wheel but this early Shogun is a nut & bolt car and it suits me fine.
Here’s the refurbished steering box – now all I have to do is fit it tomorrow to the BBR and the leaky one to the V6, so that at least we can steer it still (to scrap).
Both Shoguns are up on axle stands at the front while I unbolt items from the V6 and transfer them so I’ve taken the opportunity to photograph the suspension and underneath of the BBR (as you’ve not seen that yet).
There are at least no holes; but lots of work to be done cleaning it up and protecting it for the future.
Front suspension: Torsion bar & wishbones
An additional hurdle is just how rare series one Shogun’s have become and the associated lack of specialist suppliers; items such as remote oil reservoir dampers, such as the Fox items linked above, are available off the shelf for many newer trucks but after a brief search I have been unable to find any fitment that would apply to the BBR. My additional concern would be that these are unnecessary; they appear to be aimed at serious off-road use where OEM parts would overheat; for me, this is an expense I can spare.
Rear suspension: Live axle & leaf springs
Interestingly, the link above shows the F150 truck using a parabolic spring with a higher rated mounting; I’d already considered that the traditional leaf springs on the BBR was probably in need of replacement and these new springs and mounting would appear to offer greater stability together with less noise & harshness (NVH). This is an upgrade I am seriously going to consider when we refresh the suspension.
For now I am content to start by effectively going back to the beginning; or, in other words: Back to the Future! (Apologies for the cheesy 1980’s cliché)
Regards
Simon
Made a start on the list of jobs for the week, started the change over of the wheels and got properly oily by unbolting and removing the steering boxes from both the V6 and the BBR; the V6 box is a recently refurbished item, at c. £150 and it took me about 3 hours to get them both out with a little help from Scott at SG Motorsport. Frankly, I’ve rather surprised myself, the limit of my mechanical ability used to be changing a wheel but this early Shogun is a nut & bolt car and it suits me fine.
Here’s the refurbished steering box – now all I have to do is fit it tomorrow to the BBR and the leaky one to the V6, so that at least we can steer it still (to scrap).
Both Shoguns are up on axle stands at the front while I unbolt items from the V6 and transfer them so I’ve taken the opportunity to photograph the suspension and underneath of the BBR (as you’ve not seen that yet).
There are at least no holes; but lots of work to be done cleaning it up and protecting it for the future.
petrolsniffer said:
Have you contacted BBR? Looking at their website it seems they might have forgotten about this conversion or think none are left.
I have contacted BBR and they have told me that they have no records for the history or specification for this conversion. I did also give them the link for this thread so perhaps they will comment one day.Erwin1978 said:
I fully understand your difficulty how to proceed. As a purist myself I'd usually prefer to keep as close to the original as possible. But since this Shogun was modded to begin with, what defines original? If the suspension and engine were already upgraded by BBR, why not choose even more improved components at this point?
I believe that our approach to this truck would be similar and I share your unanswered question about where originality starts and modification ends and nor do I have an answer to it. I do not wish to become fixated on attempting to recreate this truck as it was in 1988 and I do wish to use newer and better components in the restoration where they are available but I have limited funds that can be directed to this build (it is my third car)! Additionally, I am mindful that BBR would have reached a series of well thought out compromises when they fixed the specification of the truck with a view to fast road use & winter/towing duties – and these too replicate my intended uses of the vehicle. To exceed that specification now, where there are few other examples or information available and custom order bespoke items is for someone with very deep pockets.Front suspension: Torsion bar & wishbones
An additional hurdle is just how rare series one Shogun’s have become and the associated lack of specialist suppliers; items such as remote oil reservoir dampers, such as the Fox items linked above, are available off the shelf for many newer trucks but after a brief search I have been unable to find any fitment that would apply to the BBR. My additional concern would be that these are unnecessary; they appear to be aimed at serious off-road use where OEM parts would overheat; for me, this is an expense I can spare.
Rear suspension: Live axle & leaf springs
Interestingly, the link above shows the F150 truck using a parabolic spring with a higher rated mounting; I’d already considered that the traditional leaf springs on the BBR was probably in need of replacement and these new springs and mounting would appear to offer greater stability together with less noise & harshness (NVH). This is an upgrade I am seriously going to consider when we refresh the suspension.
For now I am content to start by effectively going back to the beginning; or, in other words: Back to the Future! (Apologies for the cheesy 1980’s cliché)
Regards
Simon
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:19
Hi,
I seem to be spending all my time unbolting & bolting things back together – is this the life of a car mechanic? In fact I spent a happy day finishing off the previous day’s jobs, which was enhanced by seeing my Renault 5 Turbo again after too long an absence.
Here are the items from the V6 front suspension that are being saved or transferred to the BBR – dampers, callipers & poly’ A/R bar bushes:
Here’s the rear suspension, drum brakes and chassis rails:
Have a good look at this one! The rear axle has been raised up from the leaf spring by means of a block that is bolted from spring to axle, effectively closer to the body and therefore, overall lowers the car to the ground; so, I am told, was lowering achieved back in the 1980’s:
Not the greatest photo opportunity, as it’s still on the axle stands at the front, but here’s the BBR on a decent set of alloys – looking very Japanese
The V6’s job is nearly done & we’ve had an offer for scrap so its days are numbered; the doors and bonnet remain to be transferred.
Regards
Simon
I seem to be spending all my time unbolting & bolting things back together – is this the life of a car mechanic? In fact I spent a happy day finishing off the previous day’s jobs, which was enhanced by seeing my Renault 5 Turbo again after too long an absence.
Here are the items from the V6 front suspension that are being saved or transferred to the BBR – dampers, callipers & poly’ A/R bar bushes:
Here’s the rear suspension, drum brakes and chassis rails:
Have a good look at this one! The rear axle has been raised up from the leaf spring by means of a block that is bolted from spring to axle, effectively closer to the body and therefore, overall lowers the car to the ground; so, I am told, was lowering achieved back in the 1980’s:
Not the greatest photo opportunity, as it’s still on the axle stands at the front, but here’s the BBR on a decent set of alloys – looking very Japanese
The V6’s job is nearly done & we’ve had an offer for scrap so its days are numbered; the doors and bonnet remain to be transferred.
Regards
Simon
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 22:34
How do you spend five hours and not even finish the job you started? Friday was a day that yielded no tangible evidence of progress. Perhaps I should get used to this in this project.
Yet it was necessary to move us closer to getting the BBR back on the road; so with all the electrics cleared out of the doors, and the bolts & pins loosened we are ready to finish off the last of the parts the V6 is giving up – next week.
Had a great day today, been to the NEC Classic Car Show, where there was lots of shiny metal to distract me but I still found a few items I’ve been looking for.
Cibie Super Oscars – this should light up the road ahead; together with some early brochure’s:
I’ve been digging around the garage & found this old Panasonic set up too – I must have had this since at least the early 1990’s; this should save me the cost of buying new audio.
Regards
Simon
Yet it was necessary to move us closer to getting the BBR back on the road; so with all the electrics cleared out of the doors, and the bolts & pins loosened we are ready to finish off the last of the parts the V6 is giving up – next week.
Had a great day today, been to the NEC Classic Car Show, where there was lots of shiny metal to distract me but I still found a few items I’ve been looking for.
Cibie Super Oscars – this should light up the road ahead; together with some early brochure’s:
I’ve been digging around the garage & found this old Panasonic set up too – I must have had this since at least the early 1990’s; this should save me the cost of buying new audio.
Regards
Simon
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:13
Hi,
I think we are turning the corner on this build; a beautiful job has been done on the intercooler where it has been re-cored and the original ends re-used.
Here, in the dry briefly, is the V6 giving up the last pieces of itself. We are done with this one now and just in time too.
I’m going to keep busy re-fitting all the mirrors, lights & trim and then we’ll clean up the inside. I’ve got the front wings at home and I’m trying my hand at panel restoration – it isn’t going well but I’ll get those re-fitted, together with the front bumper once I’ve wielded a spray can. On which subject the Mitsubishi colour chart has yielded the correct colour for the truck too – B76 Twilight Blue (met) over H84 Grace Silver (met).
Regards
Simon
PS I hate photobucket; if you are not seeing an image, it's down to re-organizing my photo library and the links being broken - I will repair them.
I think we are turning the corner on this build; a beautiful job has been done on the intercooler where it has been re-cored and the original ends re-used.
Here, in the dry briefly, is the V6 giving up the last pieces of itself. We are done with this one now and just in time too.
I’m going to keep busy re-fitting all the mirrors, lights & trim and then we’ll clean up the inside. I’ve got the front wings at home and I’m trying my hand at panel restoration – it isn’t going well but I’ll get those re-fitted, together with the front bumper once I’ve wielded a spray can. On which subject the Mitsubishi colour chart has yielded the correct colour for the truck too – B76 Twilight Blue (met) over H84 Grace Silver (met).
Regards
Simon
PS I hate photobucket; if you are not seeing an image, it's down to re-organizing my photo library and the links being broken - I will repair them.
Edited by TurboBlue on Tuesday 20th November 23:16
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