Chris Harris' 997.1 GT3 with exe-tc Suspension and Akrapovic
Discussion
I’ve renamed this thread as I thought there is probably some useful information in it for someone that might have been skimmed over with the original title.
This is how it started:
“Had a rather surreal DM on Twitter the other day.
"Not using the GT3 for a couple of weeks. Fancy taking it for a few days?"
Not the normal kind of thing I get in my inbox. Especially not when the person sending the DM is Chris Harris!
It's not like I even know him that well. Only met him twice over the past 2 years, so it was quite a surprise to get the offer. But one I couldn't refuse. Could I!
Picking it up tomorrow afternoon. Can't wait to see what this new suspension system is like. And how that Akrapovic system sounds.”
Well, all I can say is that it is better than I ever imagined possible....
First off, I do have to say a massive thanks to Chris Harris for entrusting me with his own personal car for a few days. This isn't a hacks car. It's not a loan or a long termer from the manufacturer. It's his own personal car. As I mentioned before, I've only met Chris twice, briefly, in the past, and yet here I am writing about driving his car after the first of 3 days that it's going to be in my care. Huge thanks.
So basically, I have sold my much-loved and Cayman S that I have owned from new purchased back in December 2005. I had had Chris at Centre Gravity fit Bilstein PSS9 suspension on it last year, and had a Remus system fitted around the same time. Upon hearing that the Cayman had gone in order to help finance a Gen1 997 GT3 later this year, Chris offered the use of his "development" car for a few days to see what I though of it. So here goes:
1) the car and engine itself is beyond what I thought it would be. The way the engine pulls and pulls from low in the rev range and then just gets stronger and stronger as the revs build is just stunning. I was constantly going to change up a gear and then checking the rev counter to see that there was still 2 grand left on the needle. On give and take country road there is no real way you can use the full range of the car. It picks up speed so quickly and effortlessly. Even for most overtakes of multiple cars there is no need to use the full spread of power available. At least I never did today...
The clutch and gear change are Much heavier than I was expecting. The clutch is easy enough to get used to. But moving the stick across the gate quickly requires a real shove. It is very slick and accurate, but heavy and requires force.
The interior is as you would expect. This was a comfort spec car, with Nav, full leather, cruise etc etc, but Chris has replaced the Sport seats with a set of buckets for the weight saving.
2) The exhaust. The Akropovic system is a "full" system. By full I mean it comprises 100 cell headers and back-box. Everything from the head to the tips has been replaced. To give you some kind of idea of the weight saving of this system, Chris reckons that some 80+kg has been cut from the weight of the car with the addition of the exhaust and bucket seats alone!
And holy cow is it loud! It is a fascinating noise. I've shot some video of it tonight and will try and upload it later. There really aren't words that can do it justice. It sounds like a GT car. That should be all I need to say really.
But is it too loud? I think so. Not for the road, although it did make heads turn everywhere I drove. On the motorway people were gawping as I pulled past. In town it was just rude. And on country lanes it had bikers and ramblers diving for the hedge when I was passing at little more than walking pace! But I can't see how you would get on any circuit in the UK on a regular trackday with it as it is. There is a solution, though. Akrapovic do sell a "fuller" full system that includes titanium secondary cat boxes that do quell the noise. But where is the fun in that?!? It’s just a shame it’s not switchable but then it wouldn’t be so light. Swings and roundabouts, ‘n all that.
3) The suspension. This is the real surprise of the car to me. The system fitted is a development kit from exe-tc (www.exe-tc.co.uk). Chris has been working with them to develop a customer system based on the set-up from the VLN cars they have been racing for the last 2 years. Everything on this car is fully solid. No rubber bushings. No Poly bushing. Just solid mounting on every link. It may sound hardcore, but it works very well. Yes, there is quite a bit of noise at low speed. It doesn't feel like a "production" car, but to me that just adds the theatre of it. At walking pace you can hear the joints moving and knocking slightly. They are sure that they can eliminate most of this on the final system, but even as it is, I could live with it very easily. Very easily knowing the benefits it gives once you get really moving...
The only way I can describe how the car rides bumps, grates, potholes and ridges is to liken it to a magic carpet. Only when I got it back home tonight and drove the roads I drive every day, the roads I know every dip, camber and divot of, did I fully understand how good this system is. It isolates features in the road that crash through the suspension of my Merc and used to have the Cayman hitting its bumpstops. Yet it is full of delicacy and feel with clearly defined limits. But it doesn’t ever feel “soft”. You can carry huge pace over most roads that would have the car bucking out of shape, yet this never feels like happening. It is just a magical combination of exemplary ride quality and unshakable body control. If there was one small criticism was that it was being pushed around by the blustery winds today and was slightly vague at the straight ahead position on long straight sections. A geo issue, rather than a hardware one. But under load, in a bend, it soaked up the worst ridges I could find like they weren't there. The way it controlled the body coming out of compressions or over ridges was imense. The shocks never needing more then one movement or stroke to have everything fully in check no matter how harsh the feature or how high the speed.
I really couldn't fault the set up at all. And this is still not a finished system.
And what makes it even more attractive to someone like me is that they have managed to compress all their damper knowledge into a user-friendly single-way damper package. The thing I loved about my PSS9 system on the Cayman was the ability to go from a full hard track setting to a more-then-livable road set-up with just a couple of clicks on a single wheel on each shock. It is literally a 2 minute job to go from one set-up to the other. Simple.
Some pics to finish todays report with:
This is how it started:
“Had a rather surreal DM on Twitter the other day.
"Not using the GT3 for a couple of weeks. Fancy taking it for a few days?"
Not the normal kind of thing I get in my inbox. Especially not when the person sending the DM is Chris Harris!
It's not like I even know him that well. Only met him twice over the past 2 years, so it was quite a surprise to get the offer. But one I couldn't refuse. Could I!
Picking it up tomorrow afternoon. Can't wait to see what this new suspension system is like. And how that Akrapovic system sounds.”
Well, all I can say is that it is better than I ever imagined possible....
First off, I do have to say a massive thanks to Chris Harris for entrusting me with his own personal car for a few days. This isn't a hacks car. It's not a loan or a long termer from the manufacturer. It's his own personal car. As I mentioned before, I've only met Chris twice, briefly, in the past, and yet here I am writing about driving his car after the first of 3 days that it's going to be in my care. Huge thanks.
So basically, I have sold my much-loved and Cayman S that I have owned from new purchased back in December 2005. I had had Chris at Centre Gravity fit Bilstein PSS9 suspension on it last year, and had a Remus system fitted around the same time. Upon hearing that the Cayman had gone in order to help finance a Gen1 997 GT3 later this year, Chris offered the use of his "development" car for a few days to see what I though of it. So here goes:
1) the car and engine itself is beyond what I thought it would be. The way the engine pulls and pulls from low in the rev range and then just gets stronger and stronger as the revs build is just stunning. I was constantly going to change up a gear and then checking the rev counter to see that there was still 2 grand left on the needle. On give and take country road there is no real way you can use the full range of the car. It picks up speed so quickly and effortlessly. Even for most overtakes of multiple cars there is no need to use the full spread of power available. At least I never did today...
The clutch and gear change are Much heavier than I was expecting. The clutch is easy enough to get used to. But moving the stick across the gate quickly requires a real shove. It is very slick and accurate, but heavy and requires force.
The interior is as you would expect. This was a comfort spec car, with Nav, full leather, cruise etc etc, but Chris has replaced the Sport seats with a set of buckets for the weight saving.
2) The exhaust. The Akropovic system is a "full" system. By full I mean it comprises 100 cell headers and back-box. Everything from the head to the tips has been replaced. To give you some kind of idea of the weight saving of this system, Chris reckons that some 80+kg has been cut from the weight of the car with the addition of the exhaust and bucket seats alone!
And holy cow is it loud! It is a fascinating noise. I've shot some video of it tonight and will try and upload it later. There really aren't words that can do it justice. It sounds like a GT car. That should be all I need to say really.
But is it too loud? I think so. Not for the road, although it did make heads turn everywhere I drove. On the motorway people were gawping as I pulled past. In town it was just rude. And on country lanes it had bikers and ramblers diving for the hedge when I was passing at little more than walking pace! But I can't see how you would get on any circuit in the UK on a regular trackday with it as it is. There is a solution, though. Akrapovic do sell a "fuller" full system that includes titanium secondary cat boxes that do quell the noise. But where is the fun in that?!? It’s just a shame it’s not switchable but then it wouldn’t be so light. Swings and roundabouts, ‘n all that.
3) The suspension. This is the real surprise of the car to me. The system fitted is a development kit from exe-tc (www.exe-tc.co.uk). Chris has been working with them to develop a customer system based on the set-up from the VLN cars they have been racing for the last 2 years. Everything on this car is fully solid. No rubber bushings. No Poly bushing. Just solid mounting on every link. It may sound hardcore, but it works very well. Yes, there is quite a bit of noise at low speed. It doesn't feel like a "production" car, but to me that just adds the theatre of it. At walking pace you can hear the joints moving and knocking slightly. They are sure that they can eliminate most of this on the final system, but even as it is, I could live with it very easily. Very easily knowing the benefits it gives once you get really moving...
The only way I can describe how the car rides bumps, grates, potholes and ridges is to liken it to a magic carpet. Only when I got it back home tonight and drove the roads I drive every day, the roads I know every dip, camber and divot of, did I fully understand how good this system is. It isolates features in the road that crash through the suspension of my Merc and used to have the Cayman hitting its bumpstops. Yet it is full of delicacy and feel with clearly defined limits. But it doesn’t ever feel “soft”. You can carry huge pace over most roads that would have the car bucking out of shape, yet this never feels like happening. It is just a magical combination of exemplary ride quality and unshakable body control. If there was one small criticism was that it was being pushed around by the blustery winds today and was slightly vague at the straight ahead position on long straight sections. A geo issue, rather than a hardware one. But under load, in a bend, it soaked up the worst ridges I could find like they weren't there. The way it controlled the body coming out of compressions or over ridges was imense. The shocks never needing more then one movement or stroke to have everything fully in check no matter how harsh the feature or how high the speed.
I really couldn't fault the set up at all. And this is still not a finished system.
And what makes it even more attractive to someone like me is that they have managed to compress all their damper knowledge into a user-friendly single-way damper package. The thing I loved about my PSS9 system on the Cayman was the ability to go from a full hard track setting to a more-then-livable road set-up with just a couple of clicks on a single wheel on each shock. It is literally a 2 minute job to go from one set-up to the other. Simple.
Some pics to finish todays report with:
jackwood said:
The Akropovic system is a "full" system. By full I mean it comprises 100 cell headers and back-box. Everything from the head to the tips has been replaced. To give you some kind of idea of the weight saving of this system, Chris reckons that some 80+kg has been cut from the weight of the car with the addition of the exhaust and bucket seats alone!
Jeez, that's equivalent to a porky passenger 
The car looks lovely. Looking forward to hear a sound-clip. Sits well on the different suspension set-up too.
Thanks for the write up. And what a top banana C Harris is too
Interesting that the OP didn't like the 997 GT3 gearshift, I HATED mine, its weighting was so out of sorts with the weight of the other control surfaces that it was very noticeable, around town it felt heavy, baulky and obstructive. Only when driving the car flat out did it's weighting feel correct.
I subsequently drove an identical car at 911 Virgin which was "better" but not brilliant, I then drove another identical car at Bristol Porsche centre and the gearshift was the polar opposite, light but positive and silky smooth.
I'd be interested to hear what other 997 GT3 Gen 1 and RS owners think of their gearshift quality.
It'll be interesting to see if this car is a keeper for Chris, he does seem to get "bored" fairly quickly, whether he'll nullify that by spending copious amounts on trick bits for it remains to be seen !
I can't say I'm surprised by the weight loss, the standard 996 GT2 exhaust weighs 48kgs ! The comfort seats in the 997 GT3 are proper "armchairs".
Chris had Exe TC dampers on his Tuthill built ST, is this now your car wtdoom ?
I subsequently drove an identical car at 911 Virgin which was "better" but not brilliant, I then drove another identical car at Bristol Porsche centre and the gearshift was the polar opposite, light but positive and silky smooth.
I'd be interested to hear what other 997 GT3 Gen 1 and RS owners think of their gearshift quality.
It'll be interesting to see if this car is a keeper for Chris, he does seem to get "bored" fairly quickly, whether he'll nullify that by spending copious amounts on trick bits for it remains to be seen !
I can't say I'm surprised by the weight loss, the standard 996 GT2 exhaust weighs 48kgs ! The comfort seats in the 997 GT3 are proper "armchairs".
Chris had Exe TC dampers on his Tuthill built ST, is this now your car wtdoom ?
My gearshift is very notchy and quite frankly unpleasant, until the oil temp reaches 90 deg. Beyond that, it takes a good 5 - 10 miles of pressing on before it feels fluid, slotting home the gears nice and smoothly. It took me about 1,500 miles to bond with the box.
I thought that CH bought the car from an OPC (Bristol?), so assumed it had a warranty with it - I guess by the level of modifications it already has, this is not the case? It would make an interesting EVO article if it had a non related warranty item refused - not one Porsche GB would want to read, I bet?
I thought that CH bought the car from an OPC (Bristol?), so assumed it had a warranty with it - I guess by the level of modifications it already has, this is not the case? It would make an interesting EVO article if it had a non related warranty item refused - not one Porsche GB would want to read, I bet?
Jack i'm glad you have experienced a full titanium system... they do indeed sound like nothing else!! But as you have mentioned and i have fully experienced to my cost, they ain't ever going to be track friendly as the limits get stricter yeay by year...
Is the car standard power wise? Is it quick as you were expecting? Are you going to call in at Anglesey tomorrow for some pax laps?..
Is the car standard power wise? Is it quick as you were expecting? Are you going to call in at Anglesey tomorrow for some pax laps?..
Slippydiff said:
It'll be interesting to see if this car is a keeper for Chris, he does seem to get "bored" fairly quickly, whether he'll nullify that by spending copious amounts on trick bits for it remains to be seen !
I doubt that he paid money for the exhaust.Giving a freebie system to to a prominent journo in exchange for lots of good free publicity seems to have worked well here, still top marks to Chris for lending his pride and joy out
nsm3 said:
I thought that CH bought the car from an OPC (Bristol?), so assumed it had a warranty with it - I guess by the level of modifications it already has, this is not the case? It would make an interesting EVO article if it had a non related warranty item refused - not one Porsche GB would want to read, I bet?
I seem to remember he negotiated a good price by taking it without warranty.Paul Dishman said:
I doubt that he paid money for the exhaust.
Giving a freebie system to to a prominent journo in exchange for lots of good free publicity seems to have worked well here, still top marks to Chris for lending his pride and joy out
Yes, I guess the Exe-TCs will be fitted on the same basis Paul (no doubt Chris negotiated a good deal on the replacement seats too when he purchased the car)Giving a freebie system to to a prominent journo in exchange for lots of good free publicity seems to have worked well here, still top marks to Chris for lending his pride and joy out
Whilst I like the idea of losing weight from exactly the right place, I'm not sure I'd want to make the car any noisier than standard, as on several occasions I overtook cars (courtsously and safely)in my standard Gen 1 GT3 and incurred the wrath of my "victims".
The GT2 with a standard exhaust was/is far more stealthy in comparison.
arcamalpha said:
nsm3 said:
I thought that CH bought the car from an OPC (Bristol?), so assumed it had a warranty with it - I guess by the level of modifications it already has, this is not the case? It would make an interesting EVO article if it had a non related warranty item refused - not one Porsche GB would want to read, I bet?
I seem to remember he negotiated a good price by taking it without warranty.Got back a couple of hours ago from returning the GT3 back to Chris' place. Took it back via the long route from Cheshire, across to Chester then Mold and Ruthin and up the B5105 to the Evo triangle then down through Bala and on to Welshpool and down the through the spine of Wales.
I had my friend in tow in my old Cayman S that he bought from me at the beginning of April so that I had a ride home.
The GT3 was beyond all expectation,and I'm in no doubt that I have done the right thing in selling the Cayman to make the switch up to a 997.1 GT3
All I am worried about is whether or not it is going to be as competent with the OEM suspension fitted. On the road the exe-tc system was nothing short of amazing. Yes it knocks and bangs at town speed because of the full solid jointing, but I could live with that (though I am sure it would drive some people to distraction!). At speed there is not a squeak and the combination of ride and poise and response is intoxicating. I hope the OEM stuff gets at least close to this.
Anyway, I have some decent footage from the exhaust (stunning sound bouncing off Walls and rock faces through the best of the Welsh scenery) hat I shot the other night that I'm going to edit tomorrow and I'll drop in here.
To answer a couple of questions from above: The seats are fixed back carbon buckets with leather side bolsters and alcantera centre.
Chris is working with exe-tc to develop a system that works how "he" thinks a car should work. He said he spends his life dissecting what other people do and fancied having a go at building something that he thought was perfect, and then let other people tell him what they think.
He bought the car with no warranty knowing that this was what he had planned for it.
Yes I do think the gearchange is over-heavy compared to everything else. But after a few hundred miles today I felt much more comfortable with it.
Jack
I had my friend in tow in my old Cayman S that he bought from me at the beginning of April so that I had a ride home.
The GT3 was beyond all expectation,and I'm in no doubt that I have done the right thing in selling the Cayman to make the switch up to a 997.1 GT3
All I am worried about is whether or not it is going to be as competent with the OEM suspension fitted. On the road the exe-tc system was nothing short of amazing. Yes it knocks and bangs at town speed because of the full solid jointing, but I could live with that (though I am sure it would drive some people to distraction!). At speed there is not a squeak and the combination of ride and poise and response is intoxicating. I hope the OEM stuff gets at least close to this.
Anyway, I have some decent footage from the exhaust (stunning sound bouncing off Walls and rock faces through the best of the Welsh scenery) hat I shot the other night that I'm going to edit tomorrow and I'll drop in here.
To answer a couple of questions from above: The seats are fixed back carbon buckets with leather side bolsters and alcantera centre.
Chris is working with exe-tc to develop a system that works how "he" thinks a car should work. He said he spends his life dissecting what other people do and fancied having a go at building something that he thought was perfect, and then let other people tell him what they think.
He bought the car with no warranty knowing that this was what he had planned for it.
Yes I do think the gearchange is over-heavy compared to everything else. But after a few hundred miles today I felt much more comfortable with it.
Jack
I did the reverse (ish) run yesterday, running up from Leominster, Ryhader, Newtown etc and would say that the factory PASM setup handled all the roads thrown at it very well. There was a lot of traffic though, so I was often travelling a lot slower than I would have preferred?
As posted before though, I find the need to switch to sport when upping the pace a bit irritating. For instance, being pent up in traffic you obviously elect for the normal mode - an overtake opportunity arises and you are arriving at the next corner 40 odd mph faster and without throwing the switch to sport (preferably before you start the move) the car feels very soft and not keyed in to the corner.
It is probably nitpicking what is a good compromise setup (better than standard 911 PASM), but would be my main criticism.
As posted before though, I find the need to switch to sport when upping the pace a bit irritating. For instance, being pent up in traffic you obviously elect for the normal mode - an overtake opportunity arises and you are arriving at the next corner 40 odd mph faster and without throwing the switch to sport (preferably before you start the move) the car feels very soft and not keyed in to the corner.
It is probably nitpicking what is a good compromise setup (better than standard 911 PASM), but would be my main criticism.
jackwood said:
"Not using the GT3 for a couple of weeks. Fancy taking it for a few days?"
Not the normal kind of thing I get in my inbox. Especially not when the person sending the DM is Chris Harris!
It's not like I even know him that well. Only met him twice over the past 2 years, so it was quite a surprise to get the offer. But one I couldn't refuse. Could I!
What's your connection with Porsche/the industry/Chris Harris?Not the normal kind of thing I get in my inbox. Especially not when the person sending the DM is Chris Harris!
It's not like I even know him that well. Only met him twice over the past 2 years, so it was quite a surprise to get the offer. But one I couldn't refuse. Could I!
i.e. I'm sure he doesn't pick random strangers and offer to lend them his on personal car for a few days?!
monthefish said:
jackwood said:
"Not using the GT3 for a couple of weeks. Fancy taking it for a few days?"
Not the normal kind of thing I get in my inbox. Especially not when the person sending the DM is Chris Harris!
It's not like I even know him that well. Only met him twice over the past 2 years, so it was quite a surprise to get the offer. But one I couldn't refuse. Could I!
What's your connection with Porsche/the industry/Chris Harris?Not the normal kind of thing I get in my inbox. Especially not when the person sending the DM is Chris Harris!
It's not like I even know him that well. Only met him twice over the past 2 years, so it was quite a surprise to get the offer. But one I couldn't refuse. Could I!
i.e. I'm sure he doesn't pick random strangers and offer to lend them his on personal car for a few days?!
Re the suspension there is never going to be a perfect solution. For those who want a nice comfy compliant ride for day to day and long distance use PASM seems to fit the bill but as said doesnt suit all situations when pressing on a bit.
Then again a lot of people complained the ride was too hard and track focused in the 996 GT3 and RS.
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