964RS....the return of the PIG ?
Discussion
[quote=NineMeister]
Regarding my bold statement, I know you use Lloyds (which is OK with me 'cause we are always booked up with work for months in advance) so my comments were based on the quality of repairs that we have seen from them and others in the OPC network. In a nutshell, the major difference between 9m and them is what you don't see. For example: we match the primer colour of our repairs to the original primer on the car; we paint the underside/inside of panels (wings, quarters, doors)before we fit them; we strip and paint over wing mounting bolts so that you cannot tell they have been removed; we match spot welds to the original pattern & placement; I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift. I'm definitely not saying that the OPC's cannot fit panels properly or paint them perfectly, but I am saying that there is a difference in the details.
Colin, we use the official Porsche bodyshops as a service to our national database of clients, as they offer a lifetime warranty of the paintwork and/or repairs backed by Porsche Cars GB.
Should a client encounter the issues that you have detailed, they would be fully within their rights to have any substandard repairs rectified.
This is a weighty guarantee, and gives our company the confidence to continue that relationship.
As their work is continually monitored and regulated by Porsche Cars, I would imagine that any pattern of substandard work would be highlighted and the dealer in question either fined or has their OPB title stripped from them.
If you have substandard repairs documented, I would advise that they be highlighted with Porsche Cars immediately, I am sure that they would be interested in your personal experience....
Regarding my bold statement, I know you use Lloyds (which is OK with me 'cause we are always booked up with work for months in advance) so my comments were based on the quality of repairs that we have seen from them and others in the OPC network. In a nutshell, the major difference between 9m and them is what you don't see. For example: we match the primer colour of our repairs to the original primer on the car; we paint the underside/inside of panels (wings, quarters, doors)before we fit them; we strip and paint over wing mounting bolts so that you cannot tell they have been removed; we match spot welds to the original pattern & placement; I could go on but I'm sure you get the drift. I'm definitely not saying that the OPC's cannot fit panels properly or paint them perfectly, but I am saying that there is a difference in the details.
Colin, we use the official Porsche bodyshops as a service to our national database of clients, as they offer a lifetime warranty of the paintwork and/or repairs backed by Porsche Cars GB.
Should a client encounter the issues that you have detailed, they would be fully within their rights to have any substandard repairs rectified.
This is a weighty guarantee, and gives our company the confidence to continue that relationship.
As their work is continually monitored and regulated by Porsche Cars, I would imagine that any pattern of substandard work would be highlighted and the dealer in question either fined or has their OPB title stripped from them.
If you have substandard repairs documented, I would advise that they be highlighted with Porsche Cars immediately, I am sure that they would be interested in your personal experience....
The simple fact is that most owners would not know how to evaluate the quality of the 9M (or Autofarm) work. They wouldn't realise why it is the way they make it.
The same applies to the alternative repairers (other than very few real specialists who will be known first hand to others, but not me ! ...).
So the issue of sueing for a sub-standard job is not in prospect.
However, who would really want to completely strip a car in order to re - repair it, when there is probably no problem with the paint job, merely with the attention to detail that keeps it as good as the Porsche original build ... ?
And in this circumstance would the insurer stump up the cost ? Or sue the repairer ?
Mabe not ....
The same applies to the alternative repairers (other than very few real specialists who will be known first hand to others, but not me ! ...).
So the issue of sueing for a sub-standard job is not in prospect.
However, who would really want to completely strip a car in order to re - repair it, when there is probably no problem with the paint job, merely with the attention to detail that keeps it as good as the Porsche original build ... ?
And in this circumstance would the insurer stump up the cost ? Or sue the repairer ?
Mabe not ....
Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 3rd March 20:02
Ruane
I cannot help but reply to this topic. I feel you are getting an undeserved kicking here. I will admit to having not seen your car however, I am firmly of the opinion to make direct comment about any car for sale on this forum you shouldd evaluate its market value, definately view it, look at its value for money and possibly individuality, before dissing and s
gging it into the ground.
I think the price you are looking for reflects the condition of the described car. There are plenty of mint RS owners who THINK their car has never seen paint or been sh@:'ed on a track WRONG! I would like to think most people buying such an icon would use it in the manner in which it was built and not cosset it as a family hand down from their great grandma.
On this forum my brother fell foul of the dissing crowd with his M3 CSL, the one seen bashing all but the best GT3's at the last Oulton RS day. He bought it from Damon Hill (P1), there were pages of quotes of abuse, damage, etc etc it was a vvvvvv similar thread to this one. He paid 27k for a good track car. It has completed many track days in the last 12 months without fault and still under warranty, and has only made way for a GT3 Mk2 (watch out at Oulton)and was sold easily for more than the purchase price!!!!!
The car being advertised here is a lemon to someone with 50k wanting a minter, however as advertised, it could allow someone the opportunity to get on track with an inexpensive GENUINE RS, and enjoy it for what it is.
How many of the 1973 genuine RS 2.7's haven't been smashed and crashed, rebuilt, restored, and are now for sale as minters at 95k if you can find one.
If this car was twice the advertised price, sure, place a comment BUT when the owner is being honest about condition and track use ( Most are'nt)give him a break. Think about it, have you ever sold your Porsche with an advert reading: tracked regularly, raced hard, some offs but none serious. Well those I see each year at Spa don't tell the truth when they sell!!!obviously.
I cannot help but reply to this topic. I feel you are getting an undeserved kicking here. I will admit to having not seen your car however, I am firmly of the opinion to make direct comment about any car for sale on this forum you shouldd evaluate its market value, definately view it, look at its value for money and possibly individuality, before dissing and s
gging it into the ground.I think the price you are looking for reflects the condition of the described car. There are plenty of mint RS owners who THINK their car has never seen paint or been sh@:'ed on a track WRONG! I would like to think most people buying such an icon would use it in the manner in which it was built and not cosset it as a family hand down from their great grandma.
On this forum my brother fell foul of the dissing crowd with his M3 CSL, the one seen bashing all but the best GT3's at the last Oulton RS day. He bought it from Damon Hill (P1), there were pages of quotes of abuse, damage, etc etc it was a vvvvvv similar thread to this one. He paid 27k for a good track car. It has completed many track days in the last 12 months without fault and still under warranty, and has only made way for a GT3 Mk2 (watch out at Oulton)and was sold easily for more than the purchase price!!!!!
The car being advertised here is a lemon to someone with 50k wanting a minter, however as advertised, it could allow someone the opportunity to get on track with an inexpensive GENUINE RS, and enjoy it for what it is.
How many of the 1973 genuine RS 2.7's haven't been smashed and crashed, rebuilt, restored, and are now for sale as minters at 95k if you can find one.
If this car was twice the advertised price, sure, place a comment BUT when the owner is being honest about condition and track use ( Most are'nt)give him a break. Think about it, have you ever sold your Porsche with an advert reading: tracked regularly, raced hard, some offs but none serious. Well those I see each year at Spa don't tell the truth when they sell!!!obviously.
ChrisW. said:
The simple fact is that most owners would not know how to evaluate the quality of the 9M work. They wouldn't realise why it is the way 9M make it.
The same applies to the alternative repairers (other than Autofarm and very few others ...).
So the issue of sueing for a sub-standard job is not in prospect.
However, who would really want to completely strip a car in order to re - repair it, when there is probably no problem with the paint job, merely with the attention to detail that keeps it as good as the Porsche original build ... ?
And in this circumstance would the insurer stump up the cost ? Or sue the repairer ?
What makes you single out Autofarm, Chris?The same applies to the alternative repairers (other than Autofarm and very few others ...).
So the issue of sueing for a sub-standard job is not in prospect.
However, who would really want to completely strip a car in order to re - repair it, when there is probably no problem with the paint job, merely with the attention to detail that keeps it as good as the Porsche original build ... ?
And in this circumstance would the insurer stump up the cost ? Or sue the repairer ?
2802th said:
Ruane
I cannot help but reply to this topic. I feel you are getting an undeserved kicking here. I will admit to having not seen your car however, I am firmly of the opinion to make direct comment about any car for sale on this forum you shouldd evaluate its market value, definately view it, look at its value for money and possibly individuality, before dissing and sgging it into the ground.
I think the price you are looking for reflects the condition of the described car. There are plenty of mint RS owners who THINK their car has never seen paint or been sh@:'ed on a track WRONG! I would like to think most people buying such an icon would use it in the manner in which it was built and not cosset it as a family hand down from their great grandma.
On this forum my brother fell foul of the dissing crowd with his M3 CSL, the one seen bashing all but the best GT3's at the last Oulton RS day. He bought it from Damon Hill (P1), there were pages of quotes of abuse, damage, etc etc it was a vvvvvv similar thread to this one. He paid 27k for a good track car. It has completed many track days in the last 12 months without fault and still under warranty, and has only made way for a GT3 Mk2 (watch out at Oulton)and was sold easily for more than the purchase price!!!!!
The car being advertised here is a lemon to someone with 50k wanting a minter, however as advertised, it could allow someone the opportunity to get on track with an inexpensive GENUINE RS, and enjoy it for what it is.
How many of the 1973 genuine RS 2.7's haven't been smashed and crashed, rebuilt, restored, and are now for sale as minters at 95k if you can find one.
If this car was twice the advertised price, sure, place a comment BUT when the owner is being honest about condition and track use ( Most are'nt)give him a break. Think about it, have you ever sold your Porsche with an advert reading: tracked regularly, raced hard, some offs but none serious. Well those I see each year at Spa don't tell the truth when they sell!!!obviously.
Ruane's car was for sale at a garage a couple of years back and was much commented on both here and on the 964RS register forum as being in poor condition. The attitude of the then selling garage came in for some justified criticism as well for exaggerating the cars condition. I don't think anyone is getting at him personally.I cannot help but reply to this topic. I feel you are getting an undeserved kicking here. I will admit to having not seen your car however, I am firmly of the opinion to make direct comment about any car for sale on this forum you shouldd evaluate its market value, definately view it, look at its value for money and possibly individuality, before dissing and s
gging it into the ground.I think the price you are looking for reflects the condition of the described car. There are plenty of mint RS owners who THINK their car has never seen paint or been sh@:'ed on a track WRONG! I would like to think most people buying such an icon would use it in the manner in which it was built and not cosset it as a family hand down from their great grandma.
On this forum my brother fell foul of the dissing crowd with his M3 CSL, the one seen bashing all but the best GT3's at the last Oulton RS day. He bought it from Damon Hill (P1), there were pages of quotes of abuse, damage, etc etc it was a vvvvvv similar thread to this one. He paid 27k for a good track car. It has completed many track days in the last 12 months without fault and still under warranty, and has only made way for a GT3 Mk2 (watch out at Oulton)and was sold easily for more than the purchase price!!!!!
The car being advertised here is a lemon to someone with 50k wanting a minter, however as advertised, it could allow someone the opportunity to get on track with an inexpensive GENUINE RS, and enjoy it for what it is.
How many of the 1973 genuine RS 2.7's haven't been smashed and crashed, rebuilt, restored, and are now for sale as minters at 95k if you can find one.
If this car was twice the advertised price, sure, place a comment BUT when the owner is being honest about condition and track use ( Most are'nt)give him a break. Think about it, have you ever sold your Porsche with an advert reading: tracked regularly, raced hard, some offs but none serious. Well those I see each year at Spa don't tell the truth when they sell!!!obviously.
pht9 said:
NineMeister said:
Colin, we use the official Porsche bodyshops as a service to our national database of clients, as they offer a lifetime warranty of the paintwork and/or repairs backed by Porsche Cars GB.
Should a client encounter the issues that you have detailed, they would be fully within their rights to have any substandard repairs rectified.
This is a weighty guarantee, and gives our company the confidence to continue that relationship.
As their work is continually monitored and regulated by Porsche Cars, I would imagine that any pattern of substandard work would be highlighted and the dealer in question either fined or has their OPB title stripped from them.
If you have substandard repairs documented, I would advise that they be highlighted with Porsche Cars immediately, I am sure that they would be interested in your personal experience....
I can immediately think of a few examples (no names, blah, blah..):Should a client encounter the issues that you have detailed, they would be fully within their rights to have any substandard repairs rectified.
This is a weighty guarantee, and gives our company the confidence to continue that relationship.
As their work is continually monitored and regulated by Porsche Cars, I would imagine that any pattern of substandard work would be highlighted and the dealer in question either fined or has their OPB title stripped from them.
If you have substandard repairs documented, I would advise that they be highlighted with Porsche Cars immediately, I am sure that they would be interested in your personal experience....
One rhd 964RS I pre-purchase inspected (years ago I add) and found that it had had a major ding and as a result had been fitted with a replacement wing, door, quarter and sill - paint was nice but you could get your finger between the bottom door and the sill and rust was appearing less than 12 months after the job had been done. The price was right and the car drove really sweet, so I recommended to my customer that he buy it and take it back to the OPC who did the repair for previous owner. Sure enough, he took my advice and as you said Phil, the OPC were made to repair it all again by Reading (read into this what you will). He paid extra for a bit more paint and got the "perfect" car that he had always wanted.
Second instance is another rhd 964RS, banged on the front at the 'Ring. The car was repaired with a new boot floor, PU, bonnet and wing - the last time we saw it it still had braille on the boot floor.
Third instance was a 911 Carrera 3.2 Clubsport, we were paid to re-align the wing & door and replace the decals that "were no longer available".
Final more recent example was a customer's 996 Turbo Cabriolet. One owner from new, goes in for its first service at OPC where technician decided to plant it under the back of a truck, needs new wing, bonnet, headlight. Could not fault the exterior paintwork, but after two failed inspections we were paid by the OPC to strip down the front corner and boot aperture, detail finish the repaired areas (which included removing the mallet marks from the inner wing) and then build it back up again. Before we did did the work it was obvious that it had been repaired, afterwards you could not tell.
The crunch is that I am not interested in helping Porsche sort out their quality control, that's between the customer, OPC and Reading to sort out, however we do seem to pick up the pieces every once in a while so obviously the odd one does manage to slip through the net.
rubystone said:
ChrisW. said:
The simple fact is that most owners would not know how to evaluate the quality of the 9M work. They wouldn't realise why it is the way 9M make it.
The same applies to the alternative repairers (other than Autofarm and very few others ...).
So the issue of sueing for a sub-standard job is not in prospect.
However, who would really want to completely strip a car in order to re - repair it, when there is probably no problem with the paint job, merely with the attention to detail that keeps it as good as the Porsche original build ... ?
And in this circumstance would the insurer stump up the cost ? Or sue the repairer ?
What makes you single out Autofarm, Chris?The same applies to the alternative repairers (other than Autofarm and very few others ...).
So the issue of sueing for a sub-standard job is not in prospect.
However, who would really want to completely strip a car in order to re - repair it, when there is probably no problem with the paint job, merely with the attention to detail that keeps it as good as the Porsche original build ... ?
And in this circumstance would the insurer stump up the cost ? Or sue the repairer ?
V. Sorry. Terrible cold after long hard exhibition.
Thanks for pointing it out.
sambaman said:
i for one was not getting at the seller personally not at all.....i was one of the guys that went to look at the car at thorpe arch where it was for sale...
And a dealer compromising a fair ? sale by a private vendor is not a crime on a forum of intelligent enthusiasts ? ?Edited by ChrisW. on Monday 3rd March 21:35
ChrisW. said:
This is my mistake and I apologise. Autofarm are excellent --- so I'll go in and edit it straight away.
V. Sorry. Terrible cold after long hard exhibition.
Thanks for pointing it out.
As it happens, my query wasn't pro or anti Autofarm, or anyone else really - for every positive story you'll hear a negative one...sadly the most salacious negative ones cannot be posted on such sites (again, not that I am suggesting Autofarm 1973 Ltd fall into that category)...V. Sorry. Terrible cold after long hard exhibition.
Thanks for pointing it out.
OK.
Well, I bought and sold a car that had been extensively renovated by Autofarm and it was pretty good.
If I had to be really critical, not as good as some of the 9M work I have seen, but that does take time time time which is expensive expensive expensive.
Maybe it depends upon what you are looking for ?
Well, I bought and sold a car that had been extensively renovated by Autofarm and it was pretty good.
If I had to be really critical, not as good as some of the 9M work I have seen, but that does take time time time which is expensive expensive expensive.
Maybe it depends upon what you are looking for ?
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