Is the 991 GT3 the greatest 911 and Sportscar ever made?
Discussion
Re left foot braking:
I was at a press day launch of the Escort Cosworth back in the nineties and lucky enough to be driven around the Boreham test track by Pentti Airikkala. Down the back straight into a 90 right he promised to show me how the left foot should be used - but when we arrived at the bend flat out in fifth he didn't even lift, just feigned a turn in to the bend and shot straight on down an escape road.
I nearly shat myself. He just laughed, leaned over and squeezed my knee and said (in Finnish accent): "I am good, but not that bloody good"
b
d! Never forget it.
I was at a press day launch of the Escort Cosworth back in the nineties and lucky enough to be driven around the Boreham test track by Pentti Airikkala. Down the back straight into a 90 right he promised to show me how the left foot should be used - but when we arrived at the bend flat out in fifth he didn't even lift, just feigned a turn in to the bend and shot straight on down an escape road.
I nearly shat myself. He just laughed, leaned over and squeezed my knee and said (in Finnish accent): "I am good, but not that bloody good"
b
d! Never forget it. Edited by drmark on Saturday 18th January 18:41
Mermaid said:
Hear this quite a lot. Will this GT3 flatter most drivers?
I'm sure it probably will. I was actually thinking to myself if the car has this much grip in the wet what is it going to be like in the dry!I had tc and esc off for the majority of my drive and it still gripped like there was no tomorrow. As a comparison I was out in my m3 later and it was farcical how little traction it has.
boyner said:
Mermaid said:
Hear this quite a lot. Will this GT3 flatter most drivers?
I'm sure it probably will. I was actually thinking to myself if the car has this much grip in the wet what is it going to be like in the dry!I had tc and esc off for the majority of my drive and it still gripped like there was no tomorrow. As a comparison I was out in my m3 later and it was farcical how little traction it has.
Carl_Docklands said:
In this months SportAuto supertest apparently the Turbo S is given the award over the GT3 as best sports car. Anyone seen it yet ?
It is also written that the Turbo S dyno'ed at over 600bhp.....
7:34 ring time so 2 seconds off the 991 gt3 (not quite 30-40mph corner speed advantage over a 12c either clearly It is also written that the Turbo S dyno'ed at over 600bhp.....
) . Bit unusual given the turbo s was a good bit faster at hockenheim and i would have thought the extra power the turbo s has over the gt3 would have helped round the ring more than hockenheim.600hp is an awful lot more power than the 560 claimed though....
Yeah. Those who were at the SA Hokenhiem track for the 991 GT3 lap says the driver was having an off day and the car was off the pace. SA haven't tested it since then. They had issues on the dyno too with a 7000rpm limp mode.
I dont know anyone who has taken delivery of a GT3 who hasnt found it a quite incredible car - even those like me with a long history (and still have) of earlier metal such as 64/94RS etc
As a point of interest the 991 GT3 allows LFB with ESC&TC engaged. I drove it alot like this in Europe. It also has no creep so acts like a manual box (i.e. on a small incline you can take your foot off the brake in reverse and it will roll front ways down the hill till you get on the accelerator - i.e. the clutch disengages when no revs feed in). It also slips the clutch when taking off in first (unless you use more than say 40% TPS). The benefit of the fast changes with auto rev matching is when the chassis is really loaded up on a tight twisty piece of road and you need to say change down two gears after a small straight between two corners where you may have hit 120kmph and need to get back down to 70kmph before the hairpin tightens. The car does not loose its composure or traction and remains incredibly balances and poised. Id id this on a number of damp and slick roads and even though im reasonably proficient at heal/toe and have driven Tarmac rally events in my 993RS spec this is where there is the greatest chance of upsetting the chassis and having an off. Of course Im not Walter Rohl and thats just the point, no matter how much time I spend on teh track or tarmac rally I probably never will be, but this car gives the advantage of stability which allows far greater speeds with more safety.
I dont know anyone who has taken delivery of a GT3 who hasnt found it a quite incredible car - even those like me with a long history (and still have) of earlier metal such as 64/94RS etc
As a point of interest the 991 GT3 allows LFB with ESC&TC engaged. I drove it alot like this in Europe. It also has no creep so acts like a manual box (i.e. on a small incline you can take your foot off the brake in reverse and it will roll front ways down the hill till you get on the accelerator - i.e. the clutch disengages when no revs feed in). It also slips the clutch when taking off in first (unless you use more than say 40% TPS). The benefit of the fast changes with auto rev matching is when the chassis is really loaded up on a tight twisty piece of road and you need to say change down two gears after a small straight between two corners where you may have hit 120kmph and need to get back down to 70kmph before the hairpin tightens. The car does not loose its composure or traction and remains incredibly balances and poised. Id id this on a number of damp and slick roads and even though im reasonably proficient at heal/toe and have driven Tarmac rally events in my 993RS spec this is where there is the greatest chance of upsetting the chassis and having an off. Of course Im not Walter Rohl and thats just the point, no matter how much time I spend on teh track or tarmac rally I probably never will be, but this car gives the advantage of stability which allows far greater speeds with more safety.
drmark said:
Re left foot braking:
I was at a press day launch of the Escort Cosworth back in the nineties and lucky enough to be driven around the Boreham test track by Pentti Airikkala. Down the back straight into a 90 right he promised to show me how the left foot should be used - but when we arrived at the bend flat out in fifth he didn't even lift, just feigned a turn in to the bend and shot straight on down an escape road.
I nearly shat myself. He just laughed, leaned over and squeezed my knee and said (in Finnish accent): "I am good, but not that bloody good"
bd! Never forget it.
Wow what an experience and memory to have, I bet the Cossie looked amazing back then, it was my dream car for many years, I have owned two and still love them now I was at a press day launch of the Escort Cosworth back in the nineties and lucky enough to be driven around the Boreham test track by Pentti Airikkala. Down the back straight into a 90 right he promised to show me how the left foot should be used - but when we arrived at the bend flat out in fifth he didn't even lift, just feigned a turn in to the bend and shot straight on down an escape road.
I nearly shat myself. He just laughed, leaned over and squeezed my knee and said (in Finnish accent): "I am good, but not that bloody good"
b
d! Never forget it. Edited by drmark on Saturday 18th January 18:41
isaldiri said:
7:34 ring time so 2 seconds off the 991 gt3 (not quite 30-40mph corner speed advantage over a 12c either clearly ) . Bit unusual given the turbo s was a good bit faster at hockenheim and i would have thought the extra power the turbo s has over the gt3 would have helped round the ring more than hockenheim.
600hp is an awful lot more power than the 560 claimed though....
) . Bit unusual given the turbo s was a good bit faster at hockenheim and i would have thought the extra power the turbo s has over the gt3 would have helped round the ring more than hockenheim.600hp is an awful lot more power than the 560 claimed though....
I was referring to a wet track you will recall.......Lol.....I asked the tech guys at P- AG, just how much the rear wheel steer, torque vec, ect, on the 991tts was worth in actual BHP terms on track, around the twisty bits......its a lot
Power wise. I am aware of 600bhp as stock. but this is in sport plus with over boost engaged....be interesting find out if the GT3 was on Dunlop's.....much sharper turn in on Dunlop's than MSC
Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 19th January 09:20
TB993tt said:
The 991 Turbos S has its advertised 560PS, the 607PS quoted as dynoed by Sport Auto was an error, the applied the wrong correction factors.
a few well respected tuners....have reported in excess of 590bhp, from stock with the sport plus engaged as in over boost for 20 plus secs, extra 50ft lbs of torque......I love my race maxx tyres, but after the launch photos of the gt3 with them fitted, all dealers cars seem to have cup2 tyres on them.
For those owners who now have them and drive them a bit faster , does the car over run/push on the down shifts.
I found in the 991/Boxster and cayman and also the gen 1 PDK cars, they all push when braking hard and down shifting.
The feeling is like you are braking but the cars wants to push forward. They don't always do it either, only when you have timed your 120mph braking zone for a 30mph corner to the last yard and then the car pushes on and does not stop as good as the last time you did it due to this push on feeling. And does the GT3 still change gear in sports manual like all the other PDK cars! or is it really the 1st true manual PDK ? Will it never kick down if you floor it in 4th as an example.
Like others have said, how ever great a car is, it's making people with less talent go a lot faster, this normally ends up with more cars written off.
I love a lot of aspects of this car, I don't aspire to own one, it's the new breed of "play station cars" and I bet the GTR boys are lol after all these years of that tag on their cars, now Porsche have made the same. Adding weight and more tech. It's not really for me.
For those owners who now have them and drive them a bit faster , does the car over run/push on the down shifts.
I found in the 991/Boxster and cayman and also the gen 1 PDK cars, they all push when braking hard and down shifting.
The feeling is like you are braking but the cars wants to push forward. They don't always do it either, only when you have timed your 120mph braking zone for a 30mph corner to the last yard and then the car pushes on and does not stop as good as the last time you did it due to this push on feeling. And does the GT3 still change gear in sports manual like all the other PDK cars! or is it really the 1st true manual PDK ? Will it never kick down if you floor it in 4th as an example.
Like others have said, how ever great a car is, it's making people with less talent go a lot faster, this normally ends up with more cars written off.
I love a lot of aspects of this car, I don't aspire to own one, it's the new breed of "play station cars" and I bet the GTR boys are lol after all these years of that tag on their cars, now Porsche have made the same. Adding weight and more tech. It's not really for me.
No the car has no sensation of pushing. The clutch is automatically momentarily disengaged when braking hard from high speeds.
The PDK-S in manual will bounce off the limiter till you change gear. It will not choose gear for you its fully manual. If you stop in 6th it will shift to 1st to stop the engine stalling. but it will nver change up a gear for you - you just bounce off the limiter. I tried it.
The PDK-S in manual will bounce off the limiter till you change gear. It will not choose gear for you its fully manual. If you stop in 6th it will shift to 1st to stop the engine stalling. but it will nver change up a gear for you - you just bounce off the limiter. I tried it.
mrdemon said:
I love my race maxx tyres, but after the launch photos of the gt3 with them fitted, all dealers cars seem to have cup2 tyres on them.
For those owners who now have them and drive them a bit faster , does the car over run/push on the down shifts.
I found in the 991/Boxster and cayman and also the gen 1 PDK cars, they all push when braking hard and down shifting.
The feeling is like you are braking but the cars wants to push forward. They don't always do it either, only when you have timed your 120mph braking zone for a 30mph corner to the last yard and then the car pushes on and does not stop as good as the last time you did it due to this push on feeling.
Maybe just your driving?For those owners who now have them and drive them a bit faster , does the car over run/push on the down shifts.
I found in the 991/Boxster and cayman and also the gen 1 PDK cars, they all push when braking hard and down shifting.
The feeling is like you are braking but the cars wants to push forward. They don't always do it either, only when you have timed your 120mph braking zone for a 30mph corner to the last yard and then the car pushes on and does not stop as good as the last time you did it due to this push on feeling.
mrdemon said:
And does the GT3 still change gear in sports manual like all the other PDK cars! or is it really the 1st true manual PDK ? Will it never kick down if you floor it in 4th as an example.
This has been explained on numerous occasions. - PDK-S is different from PDK.mrdemon said:
Like others have said, how ever great a car is, it's making people with less talent go a lot faster, this normally ends up with more cars written off.
I love a lot of aspects of this car, I don't aspire to own one, it's the new breed of "play station cars" and I bet the GTR boys are lol after all these years of that tag on their cars, now Porsche have made the same. Adding weight and more tech. It's not really for me.
Except no journalists have suggested the car feels like this - only those seeking to criticise the car, who in the majority have not driven it...I love a lot of aspects of this car, I don't aspire to own one, it's the new breed of "play station cars" and I bet the GTR boys are lol after all these years of that tag on their cars, now Porsche have made the same. Adding weight and more tech. It's not really for me.
TB993tt said:
Can you link me to these tuners claims ?
no......well not yet, as they are still working on the upgrades, along with suspension, wheels ect.....I would expect one to come out at Geneva.
This point is nothing unusual for Porsche. The 997tts were all up about 20/25bhp at stock, The Gt3 rated at 465 is closer to 490.....
Edited by APOLO1 on Sunday 19th January 11:28
sidicks said:
mrdemon said:
I love my race maxx tyres, but after the launch photos of the gt3 with them fitted, all dealers cars seem to have cup2 tyres on them.
For those owners who now have them and drive them a bit faster , does the car over run/push on the down shifts.
I found in the 991/Boxster and cayman and also the gen 1 PDK cars, they all push when braking hard and down shifting.
The feeling is like you are braking but the cars wants to push forward. They don't always do it either, only when you have timed your 120mph braking zone for a 30mph corner to the last yard and then the car pushes on and does not stop as good as the last time you did it due to this push on feeling.
Maybe just your driving?For those owners who now have them and drive them a bit faster , does the car over run/push on the down shifts.
I found in the 991/Boxster and cayman and also the gen 1 PDK cars, they all push when braking hard and down shifting.
The feeling is like you are braking but the cars wants to push forward. They don't always do it either, only when you have timed your 120mph braking zone for a 30mph corner to the last yard and then the car pushes on and does not stop as good as the last time you did it due to this push on feeling.
mrdemon said:
And does the GT3 still change gear in sports manual like all the other PDK cars! or is it really the 1st true manual PDK ? Will it never kick down if you floor it in 4th as an example.
This has been explained on numerous occasions. - PDK-S is different from PDK.mrdemon said:
Like others have said, how ever great a car is, it's making people with less talent go a lot faster, this normally ends up with more cars written off.
I love a lot of aspects of this car, I don't aspire to own one, it's the new breed of "play station cars" and I bet the GTR boys are lol after all these years of that tag on their cars, now Porsche have made the same. Adding weight and more tech. It's not really for me.
Except no journalists have suggested the car feels like this - only those seeking to criticise the car, who in the majority have not driven it...I love a lot of aspects of this car, I don't aspire to own one, it's the new breed of "play station cars" and I bet the GTR boys are lol after all these years of that tag on their cars, now Porsche have made the same. Adding weight and more tech. It's not really for me.
sidicks said:
Except no journalists have suggested the car feels like this - only those seeking to criticise the car, who in the majority have not driven it...
You failed to answer any of my questions !I have not criticised it, Walter Rohyl stated it's now all to easy, hence he is buying a Spyder, ( if he got his words right) but that's another story.
it's not my driving, I have talked to other people who have raced cars on track and PDK does have a over run push trate.
Is the GT3 a true manual yet ? I don't care how far it's come on, does it stay in the gear and have no kick down rubbish.
Journo's talk crap half the time, just about every new car gets rave reviews and any car you get to drive for a day is fun.
They get so taken in with all this new tech and they have to sell mags. One thing they have all said is the steering still not as good although better and you will get used to it.
Most journo's own manual older cars.
AndyBrew said:
As soon as somebody regurgitates the "playstation car" phrase, you know full well it's not coming from experience but from something they have read, along with the GT-R comment final nail in the coffin in my view.
It has always been a odd saying, fact is though all these cars are far easier to drive and less involving.We have had the 996Gt3 possy already not liking them on here, and the " stepford wife" quote came up.
And it was mainly the Porsche possy calling the GTR "play station" that's why I quoted it and now find it amusing that the gt3 boys have to make a case like the GTR boys have been doing for years, what comes around and all that lol
At the end of the day every one is after what "they want" there is no right and wrong and a car for every type of person.
A lot of gt3 never see a track, a lot do.
mrdemon said:
It has always been a odd saying, fact is though all these cars are far easier to drive and less involving.
We have had the 996Gt3 possy already not liking them on here, and the " stepford wife" quote came up.
And it was mainly the Porsche possy calling the GTR "play station" that's why I quoted it and now find it amusing that the gt3 boys have to make a case like the GTR boys have been doing for years, what comes around and all that lol
At the end of the day every one is after what "they want" there is no right and wrong and a car for every type of person.
A lot of gt3 never see a track, a lot do.
It's Walter Rohrl. And a posse.We have had the 996Gt3 possy already not liking them on here, and the " stepford wife" quote came up.
And it was mainly the Porsche possy calling the GTR "play station" that's why I quoted it and now find it amusing that the gt3 boys have to make a case like the GTR boys have been doing for years, what comes around and all that lol
At the end of the day every one is after what "they want" there is no right and wrong and a car for every type of person.
A lot of gt3 never see a track, a lot do.
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