Ugliest 911 ever?
Discussion
"many on here also fail to appreciate that the majority of Porsches and other mainstream sports cars are not bought by car nuts like us, but by the sort of person who may and probably does today buy a Cayenne over a 911."
This is the total nonsense type stiff I was referring to earlier that you see so often in these discussion. The poster isn't content to simply express their own view on the looks of a car, they have to revert to completely unfounded generalisations of the "I think so therefore, ergo, obviously the rest of the world must think so too" type waffle.
This is the total nonsense type stiff I was referring to earlier that you see so often in these discussion. The poster isn't content to simply express their own view on the looks of a car, they have to revert to completely unfounded generalisations of the "I think so therefore, ergo, obviously the rest of the world must think so too" type waffle.
Sine Metu said:
"many on here also fail to appreciate that the majority of Porsches and other mainstream sports cars are not bought by car nuts like us, but by the sort of person who may and probably does today buy a Cayenne over a 911."
This is the total nonsense type stiff I was referring to earlier that you see so often in these discussion. The poster isn't content to simply express their own view on the looks of a car, they have to revert to completely unfounded generalisations of the "I think so therefore, ergo, obviously the rest of the world must think so too" type waffle.
Complete nonsense, ahemm.This is the total nonsense type stiff I was referring to earlier that you see so often in these discussion. The poster isn't content to simply express their own view on the looks of a car, they have to revert to completely unfounded generalisations of the "I think so therefore, ergo, obviously the rest of the world must think so too" type waffle.
US sales figures for 2013, Cayenne 18,500, 911 10,400.
Worldwide 2013, Cayenne 84,000, 911 30,000. (http://www.porsche.com/international/aboutporsche/overview/dataandfacts/)
Want some Nutella on your waffle?
996TT02 said:
Sine Metu said:
"many on here also fail to appreciate that the majority of Porsches and other mainstream sports cars are not bought by car nuts like us, but by the sort of person who may and probably does today buy a Cayenne over a 911."
This is the total nonsense type stiff I was referring to earlier that you see so often in these discussion. The poster isn't content to simply express their own view on the looks of a car, they have to revert to completely unfounded generalisations of the "I think so therefore, ergo, obviously the rest of the world must think so too" type waffle.
Complete nonsense, ahemm.This is the total nonsense type stiff I was referring to earlier that you see so often in these discussion. The poster isn't content to simply express their own view on the looks of a car, they have to revert to completely unfounded generalisations of the "I think so therefore, ergo, obviously the rest of the world must think so too" type waffle.
US sales figures for 2013, Cayenne 18,500, 911 10,400.
Worldwide 2013, Cayenne 84,000, 911 30,000. (http://www.porsche.com/international/aboutporsche/overview/dataandfacts/)
Want some Nutella on your waffle?
Sine Metu said:
996TT02 said:
Sine Metu said:
"many on here also fail to appreciate that the majority of Porsches and other mainstream sports cars are not bought by car nuts like us, but by the sort of person who may and probably does today buy a Cayenne over a 911."
This is the total nonsense type stiff I was referring to earlier that you see so often in these discussion. The poster isn't content to simply express their own view on the looks of a car, they have to revert to completely unfounded generalisations of the "I think so therefore, ergo, obviously the rest of the world must think so too" type waffle.
Complete nonsense, ahemm.This is the total nonsense type stiff I was referring to earlier that you see so often in these discussion. The poster isn't content to simply express their own view on the looks of a car, they have to revert to completely unfounded generalisations of the "I think so therefore, ergo, obviously the rest of the world must think so too" type waffle.
US sales figures for 2013, Cayenne 18,500, 911 10,400.
Worldwide 2013, Cayenne 84,000, 911 30,000. (http://www.porsche.com/international/aboutporsche/overview/dataandfacts/)
Want some Nutella on your waffle?
I know quite a few who own Cayennes, the main reason they do is because the Range Rover is a PITA for breaking down, nothing really to with anything else.
Plenty of Cayenne drivers also have other cars you know. Some of them use Their Cayenne to tow their GT3 RS to the race track. And some people find off-road driving thrilling and part of the car-nut world. And some car nuts love image and style and looks and that's completely fine and worthy of the title car nut - it's where most of us started. This is how absurd these conversations get where people start making these ridiculous groundless and often very prejudiced assumptions about the world just to support some personal view. Like I said, if you don't like the looks of a car for whatever reason, that's fine. But try to abstain from telling us what the rest of the world thinks, or thought once, or will think without a shred of evidence.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Save the camp faux exasperation for some one else darling. And read the post properly before belching. I said a) some do x, b) some do y, and c) some might just like the looks and style. Again, the point has wafted gently right over your head. The issue is making unfounded generalisations. No one has any basis on which to make the statement that Cayenne drivers are not car nuts. There is no evidence to suggest this. Ergo, meaningless drivel.Sorry to any Cayenne owners out there reading this who've just discovered today that their not part of the exclusive 'car nut' fraternity. Sorry chaps, or 'old boys' or whatever. You can't be a Cayenne owner and love cars passionately according to some. or , well one anyway. And, it's also clear simple and undeniable just so you know, in case you might have had felt compelled to offer an alternative view or something strange like that.
The vast majority of people buy Cayennes because SUVs are trendy and Porsche is a prestige brand. The vast majority of people buy 911s because it's a bit of a default choice in the market and Porsche is a prestige brand.
The number of either buying them because they have a time-share at the 'Ring and a picture of Ferry on their bedside table is very small.
The number of either buying them because they have a time-share at the 'Ring and a picture of Ferry on their bedside table is very small.
NomduJour said:
The vast majority of people buy Cayennes because SUVs are trendy and Porsche is a prestige brand. The vast majority of people buy 911s because it's a bit of a default choice in the market and Porsche is a prestige brand.
The number of either buying them because they have a time-share at the 'Ring and a picture of Ferry on their bedside table is very small.
"The vast majority..." It never ends.The number of either buying them because they have a time-share at the 'Ring and a picture of Ferry on their bedside table is very small.
Sine Metu said:
Sorry to any Cayenne owners out there reading this who've just discovered today that their not part of the exclusive 'car nut' fraternity. Sorry chaps, or 'old boys' or whatever. You can't be a Cayenne owner and love cars passionately according to some. or , well one anyway. And, it's also clear simple and undeniable just so you know, in case you might have had felt compelled to offer an alternative view or something strange like that.
I think you may have just discovered today that you are detached from reality or in complete denial. At least that is my diagnosis. Feel free to obtain a second opinion. Actually, you seem to have been given one already, so try for a third. (Edit - fourth)Got to go now, I think my sister might just want a rollcage for her ML. Odd considering that the last I spoke to her she had no real idea just how big her car's engine was. Just that it goes "vrooom". But it's a diesel, and she knows that, thankfully. A diesel, just like several Cayennes and Panameras, (Porsches they are too) which means they are purchased for economy apart from practicality. So car-nutty, amazing. I must be missing out.
Sine Metu said:
"The vast majority..." It never ends.
If you genuinely think the average Cayenne driver is some sort of hardcore enthusiast, you are living in an alternate universe. It's a competent family car with a desirable prestige badge for most of them, nothing more.Have a look around London (or anywhere else awash with them) and tell me all those school-run Mums are secret "enthusiasts". Most of them will probably just be thinking how to get their husbands to lease them a trendy, shiny new Range Rover Sport now they're SUV-of-the-moment.
NomduJour said:
Sine Metu said:
"The vast majority..." It never ends.
If you genuinely think the average Cayenne driver is some sort of hardcore enthusiast, you are living in an alternate universe. It's a competent family car with a desirable prestige badge for most of them, nothing more.Have a look around London (or anywhere else awash with them) and tell me all those school-run Mums are secret "enthusiasts". Most of them will probably just be thinking how to get their husbands to lease them a trendy, shiny new Range Rover Sport now they're SUV-of-the-moment.
996TT02 said:
Sine Metu said:
Sorry to any Cayenne owners out there reading this who've just discovered today that their not part of the exclusive 'car nut' fraternity. Sorry chaps, or 'old boys' or whatever. You can't be a Cayenne owner and love cars passionately according to some. or , well one anyway. And, it's also clear simple and undeniable just so you know, in case you might have had felt compelled to offer an alternative view or something strange like that.
I think you may have just discovered today that you are detached from reality or in complete denial. At least that is my diagnosis. Feel free to obtain a second opinion. Actually, you seem to have been given one already, so try for a third. (Edit - fourth)Got to go now, I think my sister might just want a rollcage for her ML. Odd considering that the last I spoke to her she had no real idea just how big her car's engine was. Just that it goes "vrooom". But it's a diesel, and she knows that, thankfully. A diesel, just like several Cayennes and Panameras, (Porsches they are too) which means they are purchased for economy apart from practicality. So car-nutty, amazing. I must be missing out.
NomduJour said:
The vast majority of people buy Cayennes because SUVs are trendy and Porsche is a prestige brand. The vast majority of people buy 911s because it's a bit of a default choice in the market and Porsche is a prestige brand.
The number of either buying them because they have a time-share at the 'Ring and a picture of Ferry on their bedside table is very small.
Stop it with all that commonly accepted common sense, you cannot make such bleeding obvious statements without personally interviewing every Cayenne owner The number of either buying them because they have a time-share at the 'Ring and a picture of Ferry on their bedside table is very small.
For what it's worth the 5 people I know that own Cayennes (from new, second hand, the lot) all range between car nut and car enthusiast, all appreciate the driving dynamics compared to other 4x4s, all fit the stereotype of 30-50 years old family (wo)man and sprogged up etc. But clearly that's a small sample. Everyone I know who is wealthy and doesn't give a crap what they drive pretty much bought a Tuareg, RR or Disco.
While I'm not advocating that *every* Cayenne owner is an enthusiast (or rather someone a petrolhead would identify with is probably a better description), people asserting *vast majorities* of this or that are talking tripe. Show me a survey of Cayenne owners and reasons for purchase, a measure of their petrol-headedness etc, then we'll talk. Anything else is unfounded speculation.
I think that car enthusiasts like us who post on here love to think we're some sort of rare breed and that we're a cut above the rest, but in reality we just happen to fall on average slightly further up the "couldn't-give-a-toss-what-I-drive to hardcore I-commute-in-a-caterham" spectrum and tend to look down on people who don't make as much effort to post on forums as we do
While I'm not advocating that *every* Cayenne owner is an enthusiast (or rather someone a petrolhead would identify with is probably a better description), people asserting *vast majorities* of this or that are talking tripe. Show me a survey of Cayenne owners and reasons for purchase, a measure of their petrol-headedness etc, then we'll talk. Anything else is unfounded speculation.
I think that car enthusiasts like us who post on here love to think we're some sort of rare breed and that we're a cut above the rest, but in reality we just happen to fall on average slightly further up the "couldn't-give-a-toss-what-I-drive to hardcore I-commute-in-a-caterham" spectrum and tend to look down on people who don't make as much effort to post on forums as we do
School boy error Mario! Fancy bringing a balanced and none judgmental opinion to the porsche forum!
There really is something worryingly needy about the desperation to prove the credentials of one model (or ownership group) over another. You rarely see this kind of crap on other marque forums.
Ugliest 911 - nope, every one has something to love both aesthetically and dynamically. Never looked at one (unless it's a hideous modification) and thought it ugly.
However, I just can't be enough of an enthusiast to have a credible opinion.
There really is something worryingly needy about the desperation to prove the credentials of one model (or ownership group) over another. You rarely see this kind of crap on other marque forums.
Ugliest 911 - nope, every one has something to love both aesthetically and dynamically. Never looked at one (unless it's a hideous modification) and thought it ugly.
However, I just can't be enough of an enthusiast to have a credible opinion.
Hungrymc said:
School boy error Mario! Fancy bringing a balanced and none judgmental opinion to the porsche forum!
There really is something worryingly needy about the desperation to prove the credentials of one model (or ownership group) over another. You rarely see this kind of crap on other marque forums.
Ugliest 911 - nope, every one has something to love both aesthetically and dynamically. Never looked at one (unless it's a hideous modification) and thought it ugly.
However, I just can't be enough of an enthusiast to have a credible opinion.
Unfortunately you have not (and I don't blame you) properly read, if at all, the posts that started all of this off, and the reasoning behind them. The condensed version goes something like "996s must be beautiful because they sold lots of them - more than 993s" and my response to that was "there were plenty of reasons other than beauty as to why the 996 was a commercial success" with Cayennes coming into the story obliquely.There really is something worryingly needy about the desperation to prove the credentials of one model (or ownership group) over another. You rarely see this kind of crap on other marque forums.
Ugliest 911 - nope, every one has something to love both aesthetically and dynamically. Never looked at one (unless it's a hideous modification) and thought it ugly.
However, I just can't be enough of an enthusiast to have a credible opinion.
Setu Mitu whatever seemed to have been prodded by a branding iron at that suggestion, referring to others opinions as waffle etc, and we are all having some good sport at his expense.
Edited by 996TT02 on Thursday 4th December 22:55
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