Dreaded Rev Ranges
Discussion
What we don't know is wether the RR2s are 1rpm over or 2K rpm over ?
Has the car maybe been remapped at some point and the limiter lifted to 7300 ?
9E say its a good car that's been we'll looked after, so can only assume 911V feel it'll be problematic for them to sell on due to buyer awareness/fear ?
I guess really we've created a rod for our own backs with all this RR nonsense. It's a used car, how on earth do people buy older Porsches or god forbid another marque ?
Has the car maybe been remapped at some point and the limiter lifted to 7300 ?
9E say its a good car that's been we'll looked after, so can only assume 911V feel it'll be problematic for them to sell on due to buyer awareness/fear ?
I guess really we've created a rod for our own backs with all this RR nonsense. It's a used car, how on earth do people buy older Porsches or god forbid another marque ?
I'd assume that with 65k plus of RR1 hits (65k odd is the max the car can store) and 500 RR2, 911V felt it indicative of historical lack of care. Rightly or wrongly the RR data is something which nearly every buyer is going to question. I can imagine it would be a hard sell for 911V and when there are so many 996TT's on the market why take the chance of being stuck with a car which proves problematic to shift?
Everyone wants to buy the car equivalent of a porn star that has never had sex.
Mileage, rev ranges, track day usage, the market cares about it so even if you don't personally you have to have one eye on it when buying otherwise you're just going to have headaches come resale. I'd imagine that's why 911V and even OPCs won't take them on.
It's unfortunate, but it's not going to change anytime soon.
Mileage, rev ranges, track day usage, the market cares about it so even if you don't personally you have to have one eye on it when buying otherwise you're just going to have headaches come resale. I'd imagine that's why 911V and even OPCs won't take them on.
It's unfortunate, but it's not going to change anytime soon.
..As a private buyer who's been looking for a year now, I had a 6TT inspected recently which came back with an RR2 over speed 2 hours before the inspection, I made the decision that I wasn't going to buy that car unless the seller paid the £500 for a leak down test / bores scope and then put a warranty on the car for my peace of mind after purchase, or took the £2K cost of this off his asking price.
Naturally that proposal didn't go down well, and he still owns it, the facts are you can buy a world of pain and cost with these cars if you don't do your homework properly, I will probably end up buying from 911V/9E one day because they do theirs.
Naturally that proposal didn't go down well, and he still owns it, the facts are you can buy a world of pain and cost with these cars if you don't do your homework properly, I will probably end up buying from 911V/9E one day because they do theirs.
Edited by RatBoy M3CSL on Sunday 21st July 10:52
Nineexcellence said:
Tom,
I know you don't talk rubbish so it is a given that is retracted given the new information.
Talk soon.
Ken
Apologies Ken - my initial post wasn't very clear leading you to your statement about the dealer. Didn't mean to mislead - I should have written something like "There were quite a few readings in the higher rev ranges (Range 5 I believe) that happened 800 hours ago"I know you don't talk rubbish so it is a given that is retracted given the new information.
Talk soon.
Ken
Either way, I wasn't clear. Sorry.
Tom 911V said:
In the interests of transparency it was ourselves, 911virgin, that looked at the car. Nick and I met briefly, a colleague inspected the car and discussed his findings and the ECU report with me before we made the decision that the car was probably not for us. I would agree with Ken in suggesting that the maxed out ignitions in RR1 are not reason enough to reject a car. They give a feel for how the car has been driven but given the limiter is set to prevent damage being done, in the eyes of the manufacturer a car with 65556 ignitions recorded at the limiter is seen to have been driven within tolerance despite this representing more than 3 minutes of accumulated red line activity. Had the data logger recorded 5 ignitions in RR2 (missed gear down change) I would consider it to be erroneous. Assuming we were happy with everything else this would not necessarily prevent us from buying the car. In this instance, however, the RR 2 activity was closer to 500 ignitions representing a genuine over rev event of some significance. If required I'm more than happy to explain why this prevents our acquisition of a car and of course more than happy to provide advise and further interpretation if required.
Sorry we weren't able to buy the car Nick. I appreciate you making the effort to bring it to us.
Tom 911V
No worries at all Tom; as you say you can only go on what the tester is showing you and you do have a duty of care to your customers on both sides. As I mentioned, the readings really surprised me so I'd simply like to understand the significance of them a bit better to decide what the best thing to do with the car is if I did want to continue trying to sell it.Sorry we weren't able to buy the car Nick. I appreciate you making the effort to bring it to us.
Tom 911V
There are a thousand threads on this subject. Assuming that you have a 996 turbo then there are only 2 'over-rev' ranges recorded by the DME.
REV RANGE 1 = 6750-7250*
REV RANGE 2 = over 7250*
The DME records RR1 & 2 events when the factory set rev limit has been exceeded. RR1 is nothing to worry about - bouncing off the limiter. RR2 is of slightly more concern because not only was the rev limit exceeded but the engine was at a level said by Porsche to be in a range where "possible damage may occur." Note that it's may occur, not must or always - it's a possibility.
REV RANGE 1 = 6750-7250*
REV RANGE 2 = over 7250*
The DME records RR1 & 2 events when the factory set rev limit has been exceeded. RR1 is nothing to worry about - bouncing off the limiter. RR2 is of slightly more concern because not only was the rev limit exceeded but the engine was at a level said by Porsche to be in a range where "possible damage may occur." Note that it's may occur, not must or always - it's a possibility.
- hope I have these figures correct as I don't have my info to hand and I had to do some internet research.
agtlaw said:
There are a thousand threads on this subject. Assuming that you have a 996 turbo then there are only 2 'over-rev' ranges recorded by the DME.
REV RANGE 1 = 6750-7250*
REV RANGE 2 = over 7250*
The DME records RR1 & 2 events when the factory set rev limit has been exceeded. RR1 is nothing to worry about - bouncing off the limiter. RR2 is of slightly more concern because not only was the rev limit exceeded but the engine was at a level said by Porsche to be in a range where "possible damage may occur." Note that it's may occur, not must or always - it's a possibility.
The other problem with R2 recordings is it could be 1 rev over or 2000 revs over!!REV RANGE 1 = 6750-7250*
REV RANGE 2 = over 7250*
The DME records RR1 & 2 events when the factory set rev limit has been exceeded. RR1 is nothing to worry about - bouncing off the limiter. RR2 is of slightly more concern because not only was the rev limit exceeded but the engine was at a level said by Porsche to be in a range where "possible damage may occur." Note that it's may occur, not must or always - it's a possibility.
- hope I have these figures correct as I don't have my info to hand and I had to do some internet research.
nickd01 said:
Tom 911V said:
In the interests of transparency it was ourselves, 911virgin, that looked at the car. Nick and I met briefly, a colleague inspected the car and discussed his findings and the ECU report with me before we made the decision that the car was probably not for us. I would agree with Ken in suggesting that the maxed out ignitions in RR1 are not reason enough to reject a car. They give a feel for how the car has been driven but given the limiter is set to prevent damage being done, in the eyes of the manufacturer a car with 65556 ignitions recorded at the limiter is seen to have been driven within tolerance despite this representing more than 3 minutes of accumulated red line activity. Had the data logger recorded 5 ignitions in RR2 (missed gear down change) I would consider it to be erroneous. Assuming we were happy with everything else this would not necessarily prevent us from buying the car. In this instance, however, the RR 2 activity was closer to 500 ignitions representing a genuine over rev event of some significance. If required I'm more than happy to explain why this prevents our acquisition of a car and of course more than happy to provide advise and further interpretation if required.
Sorry we weren't able to buy the car Nick. I appreciate you making the effort to bring it to us.
Tom 911V
No worries at all Tom; as you say you can only go on what the tester is showing you and you do have a duty of care to your customers on both sides. As I mentioned, the readings really surprised me so I'd simply like to understand the significance of them a bit better to decide what the best thing to do with the car is if I did want to continue trying to sell it.Sorry we weren't able to buy the car Nick. I appreciate you making the effort to bring it to us.
Tom 911V
When you get a minute drop me a line and I'll talk you through the significance of the recorded data, answering any questions you may have.
Tom
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