Engine Failure Risk ??
Discussion
Spice_Weasel said:
Thanks. Car is with my specialist and could be the water pump...
About a year ago, they told me the same; water pump failure. While replacing the pump and inspecting the coolant tank found a good amount of oil in the coolant. Further inspection, made us realize the engine needs rebuilding (intermix was obvious but early stages), so the re-building cost was not that bad.The second time though, it was a basic "airblock" and old "coolant cap" so let's hope you got the second one!
One of my main worries though, to get this issue with 997.1. again (and I love the car, did a test drive twice)
Coming back to failure risk, In my building, there are 2 boxsters(986,987) and 1 911 turbo (996). Mine was the only one had these issues so far after 15 years of heavy usage in the city and a good 60k on the c'lock.
Spice_Weasel said:
The guys at PCT have replaced some of mine and told me how poor they think the fittings are. I am currently stranded in Coventry after my 997 dumped it's coolant. Looks like it may be a low-positioned hose that runs horizontally at the back of the engine bay.
Awaiting recovery...
Sorry to hear this. Porsche really should've kept their standards up, these recent shortcomings do not help their brand positioning, or their customers !Awaiting recovery...
Just to add a couple of factors I've not seem mentioned so far...
m96/97 engines:
- Tiptronics have been stated to be more vulnerable than manuals to borescore
- X51 powerkit cars have been stated as less vulnerable to borescore, maybe due to the 3rd rad
Mezger (GTx models and turbos)
No IMS issues or borescore, but some coolant issues and other weak spots
m96/97 engines:
- Tiptronics have been stated to be more vulnerable than manuals to borescore
- X51 powerkit cars have been stated as less vulnerable to borescore, maybe due to the 3rd rad
Mezger (GTx models and turbos)
No IMS issues or borescore, but some coolant issues and other weak spots
steve1968 said:
Well after looking at 3 997 tiptronics , 2 cayman S and slk55 the heart has ruled the head and have put down deposit on 997 C2S manual pending bore scope results .
Already bitten all my nails !!
Well you posted this at 9.11 this morning, it could be a sign......Already bitten all my nails !!
What's the spec on your (hopefully) new car?
Very interesting thread - am I right in saying 997.2 no bore scoring risk ?
Also when buying - how does one tell if bore scoring is an issue .
What does it all mean - , how does it manifest it's self when you drive - what do you notice ?
Lastly , if an engine has bore scoring and it isn't re built , what happens ?
What's IMS : is it like IBS. ?
Sorry for all the questions - Bore score virgin !
Also when buying - how does one tell if bore scoring is an issue .
What does it all mean - , how does it manifest it's self when you drive - what do you notice ?
Lastly , if an engine has bore scoring and it isn't re built , what happens ?
What's IMS : is it like IBS. ?
Sorry for all the questions - Bore score virgin !
Edited by RSVP911 on Sunday 15th May 10:41
Bore scoring occurs when the oil boundary layer between the piston and the cylinder bore collapses and the piston effectively scores down the cylinder wall. This results in oil getting past the piston rings into the combustion chamber, all be it in very small quantities so you often don't see blue smoke out the exhaust. But you will see very high oil consumption. This leads to a full rebuild as you end up burning oil at an impossible rate.
IMS is the intermediate shaft, this is a shaft that is supported at both ends as part of the timing gear for the engine. Porsche in there wisdom used a closed bearing at one end (ie grease is put in the beating and then seals inside never to come out), the seals that hold the grease in fail and the grease gets washed out. A beating with no lubricant rapidly fails, the timing gear get out of sink as the shaft isn't supported properly. The m96/97 engine is an interference engine (ie the valves when fully extended can impact the piston on at top dead centre) this results in collisions between pistons and valves. Results best case engine rebuild. Worst case buy a new engine.
RMS is a seal on the rear main bearing that fails. This isn't normally too big an issue and can be left until clutch change time when the gearbox is removed.
997.2 risk is pretty low although the.2 started in 2010 and many are low milage so there isn't really enough data out there to say it has benn completely fixed but from forum reading so far it looks to be a lot lower risk.
997.2 IMS issues. Are zero because Porsche removed the IMS shaft and all associated bearings in the new dfi (direct fuel injection) engines used from 2010 onwards.
How can you tell if a car has bore scoring on a test drive.
You can't really tell on a test drive. You have to do milage in the car and measure how much oil you have to top up by. A bore scope by a trained Porsche socialist is your only option and even hartec (legendary Porsche engine builders) often say it's difficult to really tell using just a bore scope.
IMS is the intermediate shaft, this is a shaft that is supported at both ends as part of the timing gear for the engine. Porsche in there wisdom used a closed bearing at one end (ie grease is put in the beating and then seals inside never to come out), the seals that hold the grease in fail and the grease gets washed out. A beating with no lubricant rapidly fails, the timing gear get out of sink as the shaft isn't supported properly. The m96/97 engine is an interference engine (ie the valves when fully extended can impact the piston on at top dead centre) this results in collisions between pistons and valves. Results best case engine rebuild. Worst case buy a new engine.
RMS is a seal on the rear main bearing that fails. This isn't normally too big an issue and can be left until clutch change time when the gearbox is removed.
997.2 risk is pretty low although the.2 started in 2010 and many are low milage so there isn't really enough data out there to say it has benn completely fixed but from forum reading so far it looks to be a lot lower risk.
997.2 IMS issues. Are zero because Porsche removed the IMS shaft and all associated bearings in the new dfi (direct fuel injection) engines used from 2010 onwards.
How can you tell if a car has bore scoring on a test drive.
You can't really tell on a test drive. You have to do milage in the car and measure how much oil you have to top up by. A bore scope by a trained Porsche socialist is your only option and even hartec (legendary Porsche engine builders) often say it's difficult to really tell using just a bore scope.
Edited by Markbarry1977 on Sunday 15th May 15:36
Markbarry1977 said:
Bore scoring occurs when the oil boundary layer between the piston and the cylinder bore collapses and the piston effectively scores down the cylinder wall. This results in oil getting past the piston rings into the combustion chamber, all be it in very small quantities so you often don't see blue smoke out the exhaust. But you will see very high oil consumption. This leads to a full rebuild as you end up burning oil at an impossible rate.
IMS is the intermediate shaft, this is a shaft that is supported at both ends as part of the timing gear for the engine. Porsche in there wisdom used a closed bearing at one end (ie grease is put in the beating and then seals inside never to come out), the seals that hold the grease in fail and the grease gets washed out. A beating with no lubricant rapidly fails, the timing gear get out of sink as the shaft isn't supported properly. The m96/97 engine is an interference engine (ie the valves when fully extended can impact the piston on at top dead centre) this results in collisions between pistons and valves. Results best case engine rebuild. Worst case buy a new engine.
RMS is a seal on the rear main bearing that fails. This isn't normally too big an issue and can be left until clutch change time when the gearbox is removed.
997.2 risk is pretty low although the.2 started in 2010 and many are low milage so there isn't really enough data out there to say it has benn completely fixed but from forum reading so far it looks to be a lot lower risk.
997.2 IMS issues. Are zero because Porsche removed the IMS shaft and all associated bearings in the new dfi (direct fuel injection) engines used from 2010 onwards.
How can you tell if a car has bore scoring on a test drive.
You can't really tell on a test drive. You have to do milage in the car and measure how much oil you have to top up by. A bore scope by a trained Porsche socialist is your only option and even hartec (legendary Porsche engine builders) often say it's difficult to really tell using just a bore scope.
Mark , really nice of you to take the time to post this - I'm much clearer now , although I'd be lying to say I fully understood all of it - interesting stuff though , appreciate it , cheers IMS is the intermediate shaft, this is a shaft that is supported at both ends as part of the timing gear for the engine. Porsche in there wisdom used a closed bearing at one end (ie grease is put in the beating and then seals inside never to come out), the seals that hold the grease in fail and the grease gets washed out. A beating with no lubricant rapidly fails, the timing gear get out of sink as the shaft isn't supported properly. The m96/97 engine is an interference engine (ie the valves when fully extended can impact the piston on at top dead centre) this results in collisions between pistons and valves. Results best case engine rebuild. Worst case buy a new engine.
RMS is a seal on the rear main bearing that fails. This isn't normally too big an issue and can be left until clutch change time when the gearbox is removed.
997.2 risk is pretty low although the.2 started in 2010 and many are low milage so there isn't really enough data out there to say it has benn completely fixed but from forum reading so far it looks to be a lot lower risk.
997.2 IMS issues. Are zero because Porsche removed the IMS shaft and all associated bearings in the new dfi (direct fuel injection) engines used from 2010 onwards.
How can you tell if a car has bore scoring on a test drive.
You can't really tell on a test drive. You have to do milage in the car and measure how much oil you have to top up by. A bore scope by a trained Porsche socialist is your only option and even hartec (legendary Porsche engine builders) often say it's difficult to really tell using just a bore scope.
Edited by Markbarry1977 on Sunday 15th May 15:36
Magic 919, I'm sure they are a much better engine. I believe they are talking about coking up (not the white stuff from Columbia) being a problem on the 997.2. I did read an article uncle about it but other than that I have no details on numbers/symptoms/cures at all.
Sorry I honestly thought the 997.2 was 2010 for the new dfi engine I stand happily corrected and am now off to have a look on autotrader at 2008 model 997.2 as 2010 models are out of my price range. Well the c2s any way a c2 might just be in range but I want an s.
Sorry I honestly thought the 997.2 was 2010 for the new dfi engine I stand happily corrected and am now off to have a look on autotrader at 2008 model 997.2 as 2010 models are out of my price range. Well the c2s any way a c2 might just be in range but I want an s.
Plenty of talk about coking up as they are a DFI lump, but no evidence of any problems. I think Audi are said to have a problem and people thought Porsche should too.
The only thing to be aware of with the earliest cars is they lack the sports exhaust (PSE). It became a factory option after a while and some (like mine) have the dealer retrofit. Some like the paddle wheel with PDK and same applies.
The only thing to be aware of with the earliest cars is they lack the sports exhaust (PSE). It became a factory option after a while and some (like mine) have the dealer retrofit. Some like the paddle wheel with PDK and same applies.
No problem with soot issue with 987.2 and 997.2. The design incorporated the fuel being sprayed on then back of the valve heads unlike the audi/vag dfi system. See here for a pic:
Edit, I suppose you might get some soot/deposits on the intake but the back of the valves should keep nice and clean as opposed to earlier DFI designs.
Edit, I suppose you might get some soot/deposits on the intake but the back of the valves should keep nice and clean as opposed to earlier DFI designs.
Edited by finestjammy on Sunday 15th May 18:18
Dan911 said:
steve1968 said:
Well after looking at 3 997 tiptronics , 2 cayman S and slk55 the heart has ruled the head and have put down deposit on 997 C2S manual pending bore scope results .
Already bitten all my nails !!
Well you posted this at 9.11 this morning, it could be a sign......Already bitten all my nails !!
What's the spec on your (hopefully) new car?
Car is 2005 C2S
Forest Green
Sat nav
Heated sports seats
Bose
Sunroof
Extended leather
Red seat belts
Chrono
Carrera S11?? 19"Wheels
Hope it checks out ok
Got to sell the Boxster now, will be sad to see it go .
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