Driving cowboyengineer's 991 GT3 and V8KSN's 997.1 GT3
Discussion
LordHaveMurci said:
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Cmoose another wonderful, insightful piece; really giving the reader the sense they are there. You seem to have this knack of objectively finding the good and bad from each variant and can translate that into tangible, clear written form, with context and bias expressed in appropriate measures.
I salute yet more trusting donors that make this happen so thanks once again to all Three
Would love to hear Mooses thoughts on your very own creation...I salute yet more trusting donors that make this happen so thanks once again to all Three
If you got it to 6k and floored it and could keep it there you would post different.
Events and traffic is today's issue not an excuse as you cannot drive a GT3 at 110mph today and that's when it feels alive.
I think your GT3 dream has come to an end :-)
Net result is the GT3 does not deliver with that engine /gearing on uk B roads.
Infact one of lives driving frustrations and I loved it on the right roads which was 5% of my driving.
And as you noticed the steering not as good as the 987 ! Again you cannot use wheel size as an excuse !
Now people do euro hoons and visit spa and other tracks and the GT3 is king for those tyres of trips.
For the rest of us who just do B road uk hoons there are better cars to drive.
Very over hyped cars for uk use :-(
maybe you get it now ? A great car flawed unless you can drive it like a nutter and have fee roads.
Events and traffic is today's issue not an excuse as you cannot drive a GT3 at 110mph today and that's when it feels alive.
I think your GT3 dream has come to an end :-)
Net result is the GT3 does not deliver with that engine /gearing on uk B roads.
Infact one of lives driving frustrations and I loved it on the right roads which was 5% of my driving.
And as you noticed the steering not as good as the 987 ! Again you cannot use wheel size as an excuse !
Now people do euro hoons and visit spa and other tracks and the GT3 is king for those tyres of trips.
For the rest of us who just do B road uk hoons there are better cars to drive.
Very over hyped cars for uk use :-(
maybe you get it now ? A great car flawed unless you can drive it like a nutter and have fee roads.
Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 22 June 08:29
Well scribed cmoose, I enjoyed that read over a morning coffee. I do find it amusing that people take such strong views on the GT and RS models when people express an opinion that isn't entirely positive. They are after all a niche model best suited to track and as such are a little bit too much for the majority of road drivers. That other models in the range invariably do the road thing better shouldn't be a huge surprise.
Regarding the 997 weight, add probably 150kg to that 1350 figure!
Regarding the 997 weight, add probably 150kg to that 1350 figure!
Edited by ras62 on Wednesday 22 June 10:08
Such a great comparison thanks. (Beautiful pics too 
)
Always wondered why an earth we are not investing a few Autobahns in U.K. ? I do drive a lot on motorways, and so frustrating sometimes with the current speed limit, especially if I owned one of these beauties!
)Always wondered why an earth we are not investing a few Autobahns in U.K. ? I do drive a lot on motorways, and so frustrating sometimes with the current speed limit, especially if I owned one of these beauties!
Edited by ooid on Wednesday 22 June 10:19
Koln-RS said:
ooid said:
Always wondered why an earth we are not investing a few Autobahns in U.K. ?
I'd be happy if they just fixed the potholes and finished the endless road works on the existing motorways 
As an owner of a 991 GT3, I think you nailed most of it.
You genuinely can enjoy one of these cars on the road though - you do have to pick your moments !
Having gone from a 996 GT3 CS through 997 into the 991, the current model seems to hit many nails on the head in terms of capability.
but that's just my opinion.
red997 said:
As an owner of a 991 GT3...
To satisfy a curiosity, could you answer the question I psed; how might one access the oil filter if a DIY oil change was being done? (Obviously, being in warranty, the number of people working on these cars themselves are few and far between, but it is something I'd pondered.)red997 said:
its underneath the engine.
pretty easy TBH.
no need to remove the gubbins on top (other than the filler cap !)
Thanks. Guessing there's pros and cons to the filter being down under. Less chance of spilling oil on the engine if you're a messy so-and-so but a bit less working room. that said, you've got to grub around under the car anyway for the sump/tank plugs, so I guess the difference is minimal.pretty easy TBH.
no need to remove the gubbins on top (other than the filler cap !)
If I'd have just googled a bit better! http://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-gt3rs-and-911r/...
braddo said:
V8KSN - do you have a thread about your Ohlins or do you want to add any info here? I'm interested to hear about the experience of trying out a non-factory damper setup on the 997. 
I suspect a damper/spring refresh might be on the cards for me in the not-too-distant future.
This is the future IMO.I suspect a damper/spring refresh might be on the cards for me in the not-too-distant future.
http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/90120...
http://rennlist.com/forums/997-gt2-gt3-forum/90227...
braddo said:
V8KSN - do you have a thread about your Ohlins or do you want to add any info here? I'm interested to hear about the experience of trying out a non-factory damper setup on the 997.
I suspect a damper/spring refresh might be on the cards for me in the not-too-distant future.
Hi braddo, happy to answer any questions you may have either here or offline through PM, please feel free to email me.I suspect a damper/spring refresh might be on the cards for me in the not-too-distant future.
The reason I wished to change the suspension is to make the car more compliant over the kinds of roads I drive on most of the time - namely fast A and B roads with potholes and broken tarmac with crumbling edges and strange cambers.
The original OEM dampers and springs are a great compromise between road driving and track driving but as I hardly ever (never?) take the car on track I wanted a more road-biased set-up that would inspire confidence and not try and ‘kangaroo’ me off the road when encountering nasty crests and compressions at high speed.
I contacted Chris at Centre Gravity and after a discussion of what I wanted from the car we decided to go with the Ohlins Road and Track set-up with different springs. This was all set up and installed by Chris with the dampers set heavily towards the softer end of the spectrum - at my insistence and his reluctance
as I wanted to go to the other extreme of the OEM setup. A few days later cmoose contacted me and we arranged a mutually agreeable time to meet up. We had a chat about the set-up and I told him it was not quite right yet but I would be interested to hear his thoughts.
After cmoose drove the car we agreed that it needed tweaking and the dampers were set a little too soft for his and my liking. Once I got the car home, work and home life took over and the car took a back seat till I could get it sorted. A while later I got the car up on the ramps and adjusted rebound settings on the shocks with the manual adjuster. I set them to back to Chris’s original suggestions all round and took the car out again on my favourite roads.
It was a revelation. The ‘boing’ had gone along with the excessive pitch and was now FAR more planted through high and low speed corners. Compressions are dealt with with no bottoming out or scraping of the front splitter and hard acceleration no longer results in the car ‘squatting’ down.
I toyed with the idea of asking cmoose to drive the car again but work has been far too demanding since. cmoose, the offer is open if you want to drive the car again anytime
The thing about suspension is its very subjective and one mans idea of perfection is another mans nightmare. The set up on my car (as it is now) is perfect for ME and surely when modifying a car, that is always the goal. To make the car you want
As a side note, If you took my car out on track it would (quite probably) be horrific but if you take it out into Wales on broken and lumpen tarmac its in its element.
braddo, if you are ever in the Berkshire area in the evenings or on the weekends give me a shout and we can take my car out and you can make a more informed decision on what you want to do with your car.
I'd say that this was a nicely judged comparison. I would add that as the pace increases in both cars, the 997 becomes more transparent and the 991 more artificial/filtered - as would be expected. As you approach 10/10ths the 997 gives much more feedback, the 991 more vaigue and unpredictable.
braddo said:
Great update and thanks. 
Modifying your car to suit your needs - even Demon can understand that; the concept that different people have different preferences still seems to be struggle.
of course I do , what should be noted is this line from the owner !Modifying your car to suit your needs - even Demon can understand that; the concept that different people have different preferences still seems to be struggle.
"I wanted a more road-biased set-up that would inspire confidence and not try and ‘kangaroo’ me off the road when encountering nasty crests and compressions at high speed."
If I talk about how a Gt3 is a bit rough on the road you get crap and told "you cannot drive". now an owner wants to not be kangaroo off the road it's all ok
you cannot make this s
t up !!!no really you cannot !!
I thought about another GT3 and dampers plus the short final drive would go straight on it. the 2 things which ruin the GT3 as a B road blaster.
It's good to see V8KSN has seen the light and the PASM is not all that ;-)
Edited by Porsche911R on Thursday 23 June 15:28
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