Discussion
Dontcha just love it. What are the odds on one man owning two consecutive Porsche's with higher BHP than standard ? Would certainly get the sceptics going ?
A certainty is that on over 650 different dyno runs on our Dyno Dynamics rollers, in general "standard cars deliver standard horsepower" Particularly Porsche and Subaru as these were the cars used to model the extrapolations for the categories : 1] Rear engined 2wd and 2] Four Cyl Four wheel drive centre diff. The numbers are regularly revisited by Dyno Dynamics who take engines out and run them on bench dynos for comparison.
Another key factor in assuring accuracy is that in order to become a Subaru STi dealer in Australia it is mandatory that you have a Dyno Dynamics dyno !
A weather station is another "must have" to ensure that you provide corrected horsepower, that way if you test the same car on different days,hot or cold, the result should be within 1%
Our Dyno has had 2 seperate calibrations this year to ensure it is accurate but it is important to understand the importance of air flow in a dyno cell in assisting with BHP delivery. We have over 100,000 ft cu per min of fresh cold dense air pumping through our purpose built dyno cell. We have a dedicated 22,000 ft cu ceiling mounted Porsche fan delivering cold dense air drawn from outside through a plenum chamber onto the engine lid/intake. This creates a similar air flow to actual on the road driving, which some dyno companies may find difficult to replicate.
Let us look at Porsche in isolation, I believe the factory quote a minimum BHP and have a tolerance of 5% upwards... So 380 x 1.05 = 399 so it is entirely plausable that Rob's GT3 MK2 achieved 397 BHP on our rollers. My own GT3 Mk1 only achieved 348 on a similar set up because it got nursed around everywhere and ran on whatever fuel was available but on the same day as mine was tested other standard GT3 Mk1's ran 360 and over because their owners caned them and only ran Optimax. So with the GT3RS it is entirely possible that higher number can be achieved, particularly when the car is full of good fuel and the ECU is in full open mode on ignition etc.
I am not saying every make or installation of rolling road is 100% accurate merely stating that we have done everything possible on our dyno installation to recreate conditions as close as possible to on road real life driving. Hopefully this has resulted in accurate results. I firmly believe that this is why Evo Magazine chose Weltmeister as their preferred rolling road. They take our figures over manufacturers and use them in their road test results.
Cheers
Allan
Weltmeister
A certainty is that on over 650 different dyno runs on our Dyno Dynamics rollers, in general "standard cars deliver standard horsepower" Particularly Porsche and Subaru as these were the cars used to model the extrapolations for the categories : 1] Rear engined 2wd and 2] Four Cyl Four wheel drive centre diff. The numbers are regularly revisited by Dyno Dynamics who take engines out and run them on bench dynos for comparison.
Another key factor in assuring accuracy is that in order to become a Subaru STi dealer in Australia it is mandatory that you have a Dyno Dynamics dyno !
A weather station is another "must have" to ensure that you provide corrected horsepower, that way if you test the same car on different days,hot or cold, the result should be within 1%
Our Dyno has had 2 seperate calibrations this year to ensure it is accurate but it is important to understand the importance of air flow in a dyno cell in assisting with BHP delivery. We have over 100,000 ft cu per min of fresh cold dense air pumping through our purpose built dyno cell. We have a dedicated 22,000 ft cu ceiling mounted Porsche fan delivering cold dense air drawn from outside through a plenum chamber onto the engine lid/intake. This creates a similar air flow to actual on the road driving, which some dyno companies may find difficult to replicate.
Let us look at Porsche in isolation, I believe the factory quote a minimum BHP and have a tolerance of 5% upwards... So 380 x 1.05 = 399 so it is entirely plausable that Rob's GT3 MK2 achieved 397 BHP on our rollers. My own GT3 Mk1 only achieved 348 on a similar set up because it got nursed around everywhere and ran on whatever fuel was available but on the same day as mine was tested other standard GT3 Mk1's ran 360 and over because their owners caned them and only ran Optimax. So with the GT3RS it is entirely possible that higher number can be achieved, particularly when the car is full of good fuel and the ECU is in full open mode on ignition etc.
I am not saying every make or installation of rolling road is 100% accurate merely stating that we have done everything possible on our dyno installation to recreate conditions as close as possible to on road real life driving. Hopefully this has resulted in accurate results. I firmly believe that this is why Evo Magazine chose Weltmeister as their preferred rolling road. They take our figures over manufacturers and use them in their road test results.
Cheers
Allan
Weltmeister
weltmeister said:
Dontcha just love it. What are the odds on one man owning two consecutive Porsche's with higher BHP than standard ? Would certainly get the sceptics going ?
A certainty is that on over 650 different dyno runs on our Dyno Dynamics rollers, in general "standard cars deliver standard horsepower" Particularly Porsche and Subaru as these were the cars used to model the extrapolations for the categories : 1] Rear engined 2wd and 2] Four Cyl Four wheel drive centre diff. The numbers are regularly revisited by Dyno Dynamics who take engines out and run them on bench dynos for comparison.
Another key factor in assuring accuracy is that in order to become a Subaru STi dealer in Australia it is mandatory that you have a Dyno Dynamics dyno !
A weather station is another "must have" to ensure that you provide corrected horsepower, that way if you test the same car on different days,hot or cold, the result should be within 1%
Our Dyno has had 2 seperate calibrations this year to ensure it is accurate but it is important to understand the importance of air flow in a dyno cell in assisting with BHP delivery. We have over 100,000 ft cu per min of fresh cold dense air pumping through our purpose built dyno cell. We have a dedicated 22,000 ft cu ceiling mounted Porsche fan delivering cold dense air drawn from outside through a plenum chamber onto the engine lid/intake. This creates a similar air flow to actual on the road driving, which some dyno companies may find difficult to replicate.
Let us look at Porsche in isolation, I believe the factory quote a minimum BHP and have a tolerance of 5% upwards... So 380 x 1.05 = 399 so it is entirely plausable that Rob's GT3 MK2 achieved 397 BHP on our rollers. My own GT3 Mk1 only achieved 348 on a similar set up because it got nursed around everywhere and ran on whatever fuel was available but on the same day as mine was tested other standard GT3 Mk1's ran 360 and over because their owners caned them and only ran Optimax. So with the GT3RS it is entirely possible that higher number can be achieved, particularly when the car is full of good fuel and the ECU is in full open mode on ignition etc.
I am not saying every make or installation of rolling road is 100% accurate merely stating that we have done everything possible on our dyno installation to recreate conditions as close as possible to on road real life driving. Hopefully this has resulted in accurate results. I firmly believe that this is why Evo Magazine chose Weltmeister as their preferred rolling road. They take our figures over manufacturers and use them in their road test results.
Cheers
Allan
Weltmeister
Am I correct in saying that your dyno is an inertia based dyno and therefore a light weight flywheel will attribute more BHP? Could this therefore account for the extra power shown for the GT3 RS?
Dyno Dynamics are Eddy Current retarder/load based rolling roads. Therefore lightweight flywheels, carbon props, different gearing etc makes no difference to the result.
You are correct in that Inertia Dynos [Mustang/Superflow etc] will give better BHP for mods as above.
Cheers
Allan
You are correct in that Inertia Dynos [Mustang/Superflow etc] will give better BHP for mods as above.
Cheers
Allan
Alan, what's the best BHP figure you seen on an unmodified MK1?. I went to a rolling road day at G Force last year and my MK 1 measured a very poor 345. I usually use either Optimax or BP Ultimate but on the rolling road day I got very low on petrol and was forced to fill up with some crappy 95 octane fuel from a supermarket. Does using Optimax make that much difference?
Geoff
Allan, that's an impressive BHP increase just through using Optimax. Do you know whether Bhp figs produced on a dyno are much effected by engine temperature? When I went to G Force I got stuck in a massive traffic jam on a hot day and my engine was pretty hot at the time of the test. Sorry for the stupid questions but I'm no engineer and this stuff interests me.
Geoff
PS Your Dyno sound very impressive. Will have to pay you a visit sometime.
Rob
Not only have you got a good one it looks like the best I have not heard of any RS's making more than 408bhp {which was not standard} on that Dyno and that torque curve shows power right through the rev range, are you sure its not had 100 cell racing cats fitted & a remap to find those figures?
Russell
Not only have you got a good one it looks like the best I have not heard of any RS's making more than 408bhp {which was not standard} on that Dyno and that torque curve shows power right through the rev range, are you sure its not had 100 cell racing cats fitted & a remap to find those figures?
Russell
zanzibar said:
Rob
Not only have you got a good one it looks like the best I have not heard of any RS's making more than 408bhp {which was not standard} on that Dyno and that torque curve shows power right through the rev range, are you sure its not had 100 cell racing cats fitted & a remap to find those figures?
Russell
Cheers mate..
Have spoken to the 1st owner, who bought car as investment.
Car was picked up from factory in Apr 04, did 2k miles in 1st month, and over last year has been stored. I bought car with 3k miles, harnesses and fire extinguisher, still in original boxes.
Maybe the later RS cars were given a stronger ECU map from the factory.! ?
Should be easy to take Glenn, down the Hanger straight on Friday..
zanzibar said:
Should be easy to take Glenn, down the Hanger straight on Friday..
Why does everyone want to overtake Glenn?
He's just sulking about the ass kicking he got at Brands the other month !!!
Speed down hanger is more dependent on a good exit speed on the final
left hander, so we shall see new boy !!!
Better bring you best game Friday Rob !!!!
G.
Glenn McMenamin said:
Should be easy to take Glenn, down the Hanger straight on Friday..
Why does everyone want to overtake Glenn?
He's just sulking about the ass kicking he got at Brands the other month !!!
Speed down hanger is more dependent on a good exit speed on the final
left hander, so we shall see new boy !!!
Better bring you best game Friday Rob !!!!
G.
hehe..
Am struggling getting on a moment, am waiting on reserve list..
Kurgen_ said:
Just spoke to Allan at WRC..
ATW fig was 351.3 bhp.
351bhp at the tyres is the figure actually measured on the day before corrections are applied by the software. I would agree that this number is about right for 410bhp at the flywheel, my car posted 357 at the tyre on its 415bhp mapping run.
What is not often mentioned is the way in which cars are tested regarding gearbox temperatures and engine temeratures. It's all well and good having air temp correction for the cell, but in my experience all engines (especially the aircooled 911) produce noticeably less power when they are heat soaked from running in a hot dyno cell, the worst thing you can do is leave the engine idling for 20 minutes with no cooling air, only to switch on the fans and do a pull.
Similarly manual gearboxes need to be run up to temperature to get the maximum rear wheel power figures, usually be performing 2 or 3 pre-runs, followed by 5 minutes of the engine cooling under the fans before the final pull will ususlly then get the best result.
Kurgen_ said:
Just spoke to Allan at WRC..
ATW fig was 351.3 bhp.
Bringing this thread back from the dead...
I was on the dyno at Thorney motorsport yesterday and measured a 346bhp at the wheels, which isn't so bad eh? This was estimated as a 400bhp+ flywheel figure.
Out of interest my brother's CSL measured 310 at the wheels which is apparently very good for an M-Powered car, as the standard figs can be a little optisitic.
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