997 GT3RS RMS......LEEDS OPC.
Discussion
Keith, I was talking to a guy at Silverstone at the gen2 GT3 preview who had a similar problem that you are having,ie several RMS failures on his 997RS. In the end he left the car with Reading and told them he wanted a new engine fitting as the original one was not fit for purpose and lo and behold a new engine was eventually fitted.
I dont know how you would fare purchasing the car outside the OPC network, but its worth considering.
Btw the car in question is the orange one currently for sale at JZM. Pm me if you want further details of the guy in question....
g
I dont know how you would fare purchasing the car outside the OPC network, but its worth considering.
Btw the car in question is the orange one currently for sale at JZM. Pm me if you want further details of the guy in question....
g
it shouldnt really matter if it was purchased from outside the OPC network..the car is still only 2 years old with extended warrenty from porsche..its obviously a problem with most 997RS/GT3...they should come up with a solution...but havent !..replacment engine ''should'' be the way forward..but will this leak ????????????
ChrisW. said:
My 996GT3RS had one rear RMS and two FMS go, the FMS were done at Leeds OPC, the first I paid for the second they paid for.
Now into a sweet GT3 Mk1 CS -- 57,000 and no *MS -- but it was built at Weissach.
And is lower compression and lower crank case pressure!Now into a sweet GT3 Mk1 CS -- 57,000 and no *MS -- but it was built at Weissach.
Edited by DanH on Friday 7th August 21:07
Sorry to read this mate. What utter bo**cks. I know not all chaps have experienced the same issues but I thought the so called GT1 block had good reviews. So limits possibilities if one wants to buy a relatively late Pork. Warranty has to be the first consideration. Hope all goes well Keith
Could be a few reasons for this.. i havn't taken one to bits.. but..
If you have had 3 seals changed at the same place.. then it could be a faulty batch of seals.. unlikely, but possible..
I'm not sure what crankcase pressure these units run, but drysumped, scavenged and with crankcase breathers it should be quite low..
More likely to be a leak path / scratch on either the block seal surface or the crank surface.. it has been known when removing seals with pointy scratchy tools or screwdrivers to damage the parent metal, which causes a leak path.. and there could lie the problem..
Alternatively, and also unlikely, the ground surface on the crank could have a surface defect from manufacture, but i doubt it would get thro' quality control if it had..
If it's been rebuilt, then assembly knocks and dents and scratches can happen..
If this is the case then your wasting your time throwing seals at it.
Its going to have to be stripped and investigated properly, and the damaged seal surfaces rebored or reground, the result of this is special oversize non std seals, which are not available.., so my best guess is they will change the engine unit as a fix..
If you have had 3 seals changed at the same place.. then it could be a faulty batch of seals.. unlikely, but possible..
I'm not sure what crankcase pressure these units run, but drysumped, scavenged and with crankcase breathers it should be quite low..
More likely to be a leak path / scratch on either the block seal surface or the crank surface.. it has been known when removing seals with pointy scratchy tools or screwdrivers to damage the parent metal, which causes a leak path.. and there could lie the problem..
Alternatively, and also unlikely, the ground surface on the crank could have a surface defect from manufacture, but i doubt it would get thro' quality control if it had..
If it's been rebuilt, then assembly knocks and dents and scratches can happen..
If this is the case then your wasting your time throwing seals at it.
Its going to have to be stripped and investigated properly, and the damaged seal surfaces rebored or reground, the result of this is special oversize non std seals, which are not available.., so my best guess is they will change the engine unit as a fix..
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Saturday 8th August 12:12
On these engines it's not always the RMS but the joint on the engine block itself above the RMS. If they rebuilt the engine it will be the joint at fault not the RMS. If they have rebuilt the engine and still a leak I would ne looking for a new engine. Personally I would neve have let the OPC do an engine rebuild on an engine with a few thousand miles on it but would have pushed for a new engine or the engine to be rebuilt at the factory.
In the US they seem to recommend fitting the turbo seal.
I understand this joint has been redesigned on the 3.8 engine.
Porsche GB will arrange for your car to be collected rather than you drive the car.
In the US they seem to recommend fitting the turbo seal.
I understand this joint has been redesigned on the 3.8 engine.
Porsche GB will arrange for your car to be collected rather than you drive the car.
+1 .. Makes sense... if the joint edges have been over deburred or damaged in any way on assy, then theres the leak path..
I'm sure some OPC's have technicians may be more experienced at this that others, but its a pretty specialised job to split the crank case and get it all back together to factory settings..
Maybe better at Hartech or similar specialists for rebuilds, but anyone will have the same problem if the parent metal is damaged in any way, I doubt very much they would remachine the surfaces to get clean sharp edges on the joint, unless they have factory graded oversize seals for this very reason..
If its warranteed, you dont have a problem really, just a frustrating route to a fix..
I still think you will end up with a crate motor replacement in the end, and you should push for this result..
I'm sure some OPC's have technicians may be more experienced at this that others, but its a pretty specialised job to split the crank case and get it all back together to factory settings..
Maybe better at Hartech or similar specialists for rebuilds, but anyone will have the same problem if the parent metal is damaged in any way, I doubt very much they would remachine the surfaces to get clean sharp edges on the joint, unless they have factory graded oversize seals for this very reason..
If its warranteed, you dont have a problem really, just a frustrating route to a fix..
I still think you will end up with a crate motor replacement in the end, and you should push for this result..
Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Sunday 9th August 10:58
RatBoy M3CS said:
Maybe better at Hartech or similar specialists for rebuilds, but anyone will have the same problem if the parent metal is damaged in any way, I doubt very much they would remachine the surfaces to get clean sharp edges on the joint, unless they have factory graded oversize seals for this very reason..
My understanding is that the factory send out a new engine casing and everything is transferred across. Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Sunday 9th August 10:58
Edited by XTR2Turbo on Sunday 9th August 13:59
XTR2Turbo said:
RatBoy M3CS said:
Maybe better at Hartech or similar specialists for rebuilds, but anyone will have the same problem if the parent metal is damaged in any way, I doubt very much they would remachine the surfaces to get clean sharp edges on the joint, unless they have factory graded oversize seals for this very reason..
My understanding is that the factory send out a new engine casing and everything is transferred across. Edited by RatBoy M3CS on Sunday 9th August 10:58
Edited by XTR2Turbo on Sunday 9th August 13:59
One other reason for seal failure i thought of to add to the list, If the crank line bore and the seal location bores are not machined concentric, this gradually destroys the seal..
Normally these are machined at the same time, and seal location bores are concentric to 0.05mm TIR.. but if the bores are not in line the seal inner goes round in a mini orbit.. and can destroy itself, they are designed to cope with a little runout but if its too far out the problem is going to happen again and again..
None of my suggested root causes will take the problem away i'm afraid.. its still a new motor or new maincase swap... but at least you will have a better understanding of the possible reasons for it happening..
If they manage to get the same pistons back in the same holes.. even better..
Normally these are machined at the same time, and seal location bores are concentric to 0.05mm TIR.. but if the bores are not in line the seal inner goes round in a mini orbit.. and can destroy itself, they are designed to cope with a little runout but if its too far out the problem is going to happen again and again..
None of my suggested root causes will take the problem away i'm afraid.. its still a new motor or new maincase swap... but at least you will have a better understanding of the possible reasons for it happening..
If they manage to get the same pistons back in the same holes.. even better..
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