Finally: Some facts on the GT-R's Ring time
Discussion
That quote was in the specific context of Schoysmann's sub-8 minute R33 lap in the article it came from (NZ Driver Magazine, October '08), he obviously disagrees with you about Nissan not using that lap for marketing.
In another ten years do you think people will be saying Nissan never used the 7:29 for 'official marketing' as most of the hype came from journos and internet car geeks?
In another ten years do you think people will be saying Nissan never used the 7:29 for 'official marketing' as most of the hype came from journos and internet car geeks?
GravelBen said:
Trommel said:
GravelBen said:
It also gives some balance to Trommels' claims about the GTR dominating tarmac rallies left right and centre.
I think you're confusing me with someone else - I've never mentioned anything about tarmac rallies.
will edit the other post.It was gp900bj who said "The GT-R is crushing Porsche's best in almost every tarmac rally it is competing in." earlier in this thread, which is plain wrong. No denying that the GTR is doing remarkably well for a car that heavy, but it certainly isn't 'crushing' the competition.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 24th November 23:32
Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
peterpeter said:
The dunlops look far closer to the hardcore MPSC tyres on the GT2. The fact that the GT2 was only 6 seconds quicker on far better tyres makes it a rather hollow victory for porsche.
It was a damp track, the Porsche was on tyres that are designed for dry tracks... In the DR review he said if anything the conditions favored the GTR, and still the GT2 was faster.gp900bj said:
GravelBen said:
Trommel said:
GravelBen said:
It also gives some balance to Trommels' claims about the GTR dominating tarmac rallies left right and centre.
I think you're confusing me with someone else - I've never mentioned anything about tarmac rallies. will edit the other post.It was gp900bj who said "The GT-R is crushing Porsche's best in almost every tarmac rally it is competing in." earlier in this thread, which is plain wrong. No denying that the GTR is doing remarkably well for a car that heavy, but it certainly isn't 'crushing' the competition.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 24th November 23:32
Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
gp900bj said:
If you are much of a Porsche fan then you would have heard of Jim Richards. He is regarded as somewhat of a God in Porsche racing circles as he has dominated the tarmac rally scene in Australia for the last decade, and ever since his signing up with Porsche. His current weapon of choice is a specially made 911 GT2 RS with full factory support and few cars, if any, have been able to take the fight to him at any tarmac rally event.
Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
let's look at the real results of the 2008 Targa Tasmania. Not finishing the last 29 stages and only being able to complete the first 9 is not real impressive.Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
[quote]Nissan GTR R35
Stage Penalty Base Pos
TS0 Prologue 03:16.64 00:00.00 Inc
TS1 Entally ==== 04:30 =1
TS2 Deloraine ==== 06:30 =1
TS3 Reedy Marsh ==== 03:00 =1
TS4 Paradise 00:09 07:00 22
TS5
TS6 Hartford 00:16 02:30 =14
TS7 Frankford 00:26 03:30 =26
TS8 Kayena 00:18 03:00 =40
TS9 Beaconsfield ==== 02:30 =1
TS10 The Sideling DNF 06:30 Inc
TS11 Legerwood DNF 02:30 Inc
TS12 Moorina DNF 03:30 Inc
TS13 Weldborough Pass Long DNF 06:00 Inc
TS14 Pyengana DNF 03:00 Inc
TS15 Elephant Saddle DNF 05:00 Inc
TS16 Rossarden DNF 05:30 Inc
TS17 Longford DNF 03:00 Inc
TS18 High PlainsDNF 02:00 Inc
TS19 Dunorlan DNF 04:00 Inc
TS20 Merseylea DNF 04:30 Inc
TS21 Devonport City DNF 02:30 Inc
TS22 Paloona DNF 07:30 Inc
TS23 Mt Claude DNF 04:30 Inc
TS24 Liena DNF 05:00 Inc
TS25 Caveside DNF 02:00 Inc
TS26 Mole Creek DNF 02:00 Inc
TS27 Cethana DNF 17:00 Inc
TS28 Gunns Plains DNF 07:00 Inc
TS29 South Riana DNF 11:30 Inc
TS30 Hellyer Gorge DNF 07:00 Inc
TS31 Bastyan Dam DNF 02:30 Inc
TS32 Reece Dam DNF 13:30 Inc
TS33 Strahan DNF 15:30 Inc
TS34 Queenstown DNF 03:00 Inc
TS35 Mt Arrowsmith DNF 21:30 Inc
TS36 Tungatinah DNF 04:00 Inc
TS37 Risdon Brook DNF 03:00 Inc
TS38 Hobart DNF 01:30 Inc
V6 said:
peterpeter said:
The dunlops look far closer to the hardcore MPSC tyres on the GT2. The fact that the GT2 was only 6 seconds quicker on far better tyres makes it a rather hollow victory for porsche.
It was a damp track, the Porsche was on tyres that are designed for dry tracks... In the DR review he said if anything the conditions favored the GTR, and still the GT2 was faster.Incidentally, Ive run MSPCs on damp tracks and they are pretty damn good unless its actually raining. (also have had RE070s for 3 years on an STi and track tyres they are not.)
The piece on page 51 of the latest performance car magazine really puts this comparison into perspective. Shame there was no Porsche in the PCOTY though.
peterpeter, did you stay abreast of the discussion in Drivers Republic's Nurburgring community? Apparently (and as eclou mentioned in his earlier post), the Porsche-spec N-rated tires are very different from normal MPSC's. And that would explain why the DR crew were so surprised by how effective the GT2's tires were in the cold and damp. This was posted:
"The easiest thing to tell them apart is that on the outer shoulder of the N-rated ones, there is the circumferential groove half way across it You can see this on page 10 of Hard & Fast 027 - the story on the Scud, GT2 and 560. The sipes are larger and there is a lot more tread pattern. On the pukka ones, there isn't the groove, they start with less tread depth and the sipes are very narrow. The rubber is massively softer, which is easy to spot as well. Did your finger nail into the pukka ones and its all soft and squidgy: Dig your finger nail into the N-rated ones, well, you've got harder finger nails than me."
--Meyrick
"Meyrick is correct on the PSC for 997 -it is an entirely different tyre to the soft track-intended equivalent -it had to be to gain the N-mark approval.
If we do ever get the chance to run a GT2 on some proper soft rubber, I think I'd rather it was a bit warmer than last time. And without the few damp patches."
--Chris Harris
"I think the Cup+ proved itself in the damp conditions - some time before the laps were timed. And the tread pattern is much more pronounced than the normal Cup tires - and I'd expect as Meyrick said, the compound is different, too. I'll get an official steer from Michelin."
--Jethro Bovingdon
This is the official info from Michelin's UK site:
"Homologated by Porsche on the 911 (997) GT3 / GT3 RS versions, and by BMW on the new M3.
Built for circuit use, yet easy to drive on the open road.
Easy to drive in wet conditions: wet road holding close to Michelin's sports tyre range (Pilot Sport 2) which was rated amongst the best in German press tests in March 2006 (ADAC, Sport Auto)."
If what eclou is saying is true (that the GT-R's Bridgestones show durometer testing as soft as bonafide R-compound trackday semislicks), then it stands to reason that the cold conditions would affect it more than the N-spec Cup+'s. And thus, that is why Drivers Republic's co-founder Steve Davies wrote:
"the GT2 found much more traction than we would expect on its cup+ tyres and therefore there was little or no traction advantage conferred by the GT-R's 4wd."
"The easiest thing to tell them apart is that on the outer shoulder of the N-rated ones, there is the circumferential groove half way across it You can see this on page 10 of Hard & Fast 027 - the story on the Scud, GT2 and 560. The sipes are larger and there is a lot more tread pattern. On the pukka ones, there isn't the groove, they start with less tread depth and the sipes are very narrow. The rubber is massively softer, which is easy to spot as well. Did your finger nail into the pukka ones and its all soft and squidgy: Dig your finger nail into the N-rated ones, well, you've got harder finger nails than me."
--Meyrick
"Meyrick is correct on the PSC for 997 -it is an entirely different tyre to the soft track-intended equivalent -it had to be to gain the N-mark approval.
If we do ever get the chance to run a GT2 on some proper soft rubber, I think I'd rather it was a bit warmer than last time. And without the few damp patches."
--Chris Harris
"I think the Cup+ proved itself in the damp conditions - some time before the laps were timed. And the tread pattern is much more pronounced than the normal Cup tires - and I'd expect as Meyrick said, the compound is different, too. I'll get an official steer from Michelin."
--Jethro Bovingdon
This is the official info from Michelin's UK site:
"Homologated by Porsche on the 911 (997) GT3 / GT3 RS versions, and by BMW on the new M3.
Built for circuit use, yet easy to drive on the open road.
Easy to drive in wet conditions: wet road holding close to Michelin's sports tyre range (Pilot Sport 2) which was rated amongst the best in German press tests in March 2006 (ADAC, Sport Auto)."
If what eclou is saying is true (that the GT-R's Bridgestones show durometer testing as soft as bonafide R-compound trackday semislicks), then it stands to reason that the cold conditions would affect it more than the N-spec Cup+'s. And thus, that is why Drivers Republic's co-founder Steve Davies wrote:
"the GT2 found much more traction than we would expect on its cup+ tyres and therefore there was little or no traction advantage conferred by the GT-R's 4wd."
eclou said:
gp900bj said:
If you are much of a Porsche fan then you would have heard of Jim Richards. He is regarded as somewhat of a God in Porsche racing circles as he has dominated the tarmac rally scene in Australia for the last decade, and ever since his signing up with Porsche. His current weapon of choice is a specially made 911 GT2 RS with full factory support and few cars, if any, have been able to take the fight to him at any tarmac rally event.
Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
let's look at the real results of the 2008 Targa Tasmania. Not finishing the last 29 stages and only being able to complete the first 9 is not real impressive.Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
[quote]Nissan GTR R35
Stage Penalty Base Pos
TS0 Prologue 03:16.64 00:00.00 Inc
TS1 Entally ==== 04:30 =1
TS2 Deloraine ==== 06:30 =1
TS3 Reedy Marsh ==== 03:00 =1
TS4 Paradise 00:09 07:00 22
TS5
TS6 Hartford 00:16 02:30 =14
TS7 Frankford 00:26 03:30 =26
TS8 Kayena 00:18 03:00 =40
TS9 Beaconsfield ==== 02:30 =1
TS10 The Sideling DNF 06:30 Inc
TS11 Legerwood DNF 02:30 Inc
TS12 Moorina DNF 03:30 Inc
TS13 Weldborough Pass Long DNF 06:00 Inc
TS14 Pyengana DNF 03:00 Inc
TS15 Elephant Saddle DNF 05:00 Inc
TS16 Rossarden DNF 05:30 Inc
TS17 Longford DNF 03:00 Inc
TS18 High PlainsDNF 02:00 Inc
TS19 Dunorlan DNF 04:00 Inc
TS20 Merseylea DNF 04:30 Inc
TS21 Devonport City DNF 02:30 Inc
TS22 Paloona DNF 07:30 Inc
TS23 Mt Claude DNF 04:30 Inc
TS24 Liena DNF 05:00 Inc
TS25 Caveside DNF 02:00 Inc
TS26 Mole Creek DNF 02:00 Inc
TS27 Cethana DNF 17:00 Inc
TS28 Gunns Plains DNF 07:00 Inc
TS29 South Riana DNF 11:30 Inc
TS30 Hellyer Gorge DNF 07:00 Inc
TS31 Bastyan Dam DNF 02:30 Inc
TS32 Reece Dam DNF 13:30 Inc
TS33 Strahan DNF 15:30 Inc
TS34 Queenstown DNF 03:00 Inc
TS35 Mt Arrowsmith DNF 21:30 Inc
TS36 Tungatinah DNF 04:00 Inc
TS37 Risdon Brook DNF 03:00 Inc
TS38 Hobart DNF 01:30 Inc
Any retort here, Mr 900?
gp900bj said:
If you are much of a Porsche fan then you would have heard of Jim Richards. He is regarded as somewhat of a God in Porsche racing circles as he has dominated the tarmac rally scene in Australia for the last decade, and ever since his signing up with Porsche. His current weapon of choice is a specially made 911 GT2 RS with full factory support and few cars, if any, have been able to take the fight to him at any tarmac rally event.
Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
Never heard of this Jim Richards by the way, but GT2 vs anything with similar power and 4WD is a bit of a no-brainer in rallying isn't it? Unless the stages are all perfect blacktop on a dry day!Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
Bit like the Audi Quattros against the Lancia Stratos in the early '80s... Kinda didn't matter who was driving the quattro - they even let a woman drive it for goodness sake...
<ducksforcover>PS. before I get virtually lynched by the girls on here, and those in touch with their feminine side, I actually really rated Michelle Mouton as a driver - especially after her Pikes Peak drive.
Edited by kVA on Monday 22 December 23:07
freedman said:
gp900bj said:
GravelBen said:
Trommel said:
GravelBen said:
It also gives some balance to Trommels' claims about the GTR dominating tarmac rallies left right and centre.
I think you're confusing me with someone else - I've never mentioned anything about tarmac rallies. will edit the other post.It was gp900bj who said "The GT-R is crushing Porsche's best in almost every tarmac rally it is competing in." earlier in this thread, which is plain wrong. No denying that the GTR is doing remarkably well for a car that heavy, but it certainly isn't 'crushing' the competition.
Edited by GravelBen on Monday 24th November 23:32
Earlier this year a 24 yr old kid became the youngest ever to win the Targa West tarmac rally. He was behind the wheel of a privately funded R35 GT-R, his first ever ride in an R35 and amazingly, the R35 was driven on production road tires (BS Re070) because they simply could not source R-compounds in the GT-R's size in time for the event. Every other vehicle in his category was fitted with track prepped (shaved) R-compounds.
He beat Jim Richards by a cool 15 seconds outright, despite Jim having the advantage of factory support, 20 years of experience, Michelin Sport Cup R-compounds, 50hp more and 300kg less weight.
If this is not a result that you can acknowledge then I can't help you.
If the Jim hadn't have gone off the track and cocked lots of things up, he would have obviously beat the GTR. The GT2 was significantly quicker than the GTR and the Lambo was a lot quicker than both of them.
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