Discussion
isaldiri said:
Can of worms this one. I do however find it odd some believe that the pdk -s is anything different from a highly refined and tweaked pdk. Put a pdk in manual, remove the kickdown and 1st gear creep and that's essentially how the pdk-s behaves as far as i understand albeit with faster shift speeds. Still at essence it remains an auto box (unless dual clutch boxes are now considered manuals...) running in manual mode and really just a further development of a tiptronic box set in manual mode.
I thought you had a 991 GT3?The PDK-S does not override the driver in the same way that PDK does.
mollytherocker said:
Correct, my error. However it makes no difference.
It makes a lot of difference, given that your analogy involved someone with the ability to override your decisions 'if they saw fit'....More importantly, it shows that you don't really understand how PDK-S works and why it's different to PDK.
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 8th June 09:16
sidicks said:
It makes a lot of difference, given that your analogy involved someone with the ability to override your decisions 'if they saw fit'....
More importantly, it shows that you don't really understand how PDK-S works and why it's different to PDK.
The PDK-S works like no other duel clutch box, not just the PDK. After a few laps on learning on track, it is astonishing just how you find your self in the right gear all the time..More importantly, it shows that you don't really understand how PDK-S works and why it's different to PDK.
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 8th June 09:16
APOLO1 said:
The PDK-S works like no other duel clutch box, not just the PDK. After a few laps on learning on track, it is astonishing just how you find your self in the right gear all the time..
I'm sure you're correct, but I think you're talking about how amazing the gearbox is in 'auto' mode.The issue here is Molly's lack of understanding of the gearbox in 'manual' mode...
sidicks said:
I'm sure you're correct, but I think you're talking about how amazing the gearbox is in 'auto' mode.
The issue here is Molly's lack of understanding of the gearbox in 'manual' mode...
Ah, but don't forget that no matter what mode, you can pull in both paddles at the same time, and disengage the clutch. Must say it sounds a lot less strained now at the top end of the rev range. The issue here is Molly's lack of understanding of the gearbox in 'manual' mode...
sidicks said:
It makes a lot of difference, given that your analogy involved someone with the ability to override your decisions 'if they saw fit'....
More importantly, it shows that you don't really understand how PDK-S works and why it's different to PDK.
I can assure you that I fully understand how it 'works'. Its an automatic gearbox. You cannot manually change gear. You can press a button that directs the gearbox to change gear for you.More importantly, it shows that you don't really understand how PDK-S works and why it's different to PDK.
Edited by sidicks on Sunday 8th June 09:16
The gearbox is the one that operates the clutches and moves the mechanical parts to physically change the gear. Indeed, as you know, it pre-engages the next gear for you aswell. It controls and actions the whole process by very complicated and accurate programming by Porsches engineers. It is a superb piece of engineering.
All you do, is request the change via a button. A digital, binary on or off button. You do not change the gear manually.
Indeed, Porsche understand this very well and Andreas talked about it in detail, making the paddle more 'emotional'. That is, giving it a more mechanical like feel and fine tuning the way that the gearbox slots the gear home, to make you feel like you are 'engaging' the gear directly. You are not.
You can indeed choose what gear to be in most of the time, but you cannot change it manually.
Its called and automatic gearbox because it physically changes the gear AUTOMATICALLY.
mollytherocker said:
I can assure you that I fully understand how it 'works'. Its an automatic gearbox. You cannot manually change gear. You can press a button that directs the gearbox to change gear for you.
The gearbox is the one that operates the clutches and moves the mechanical parts to physically change the gear. Indeed, as you know, it pre-engages the next gear for you aswell. It controls and actions the whole process by very complicated and accurate programming by Porsches engineers. It is a superb piece of engineering.
All you do, is request the change via a button. A digital, binary on or off button. You do not change the gear manually.
Indeed, Porsche understand this very well and Andreas talked about it in detail, making the paddle more 'emotional'. That is, giving it a more mechanical like feel and fine tuning the way that the gearbox slots the gear home, to make you feel like you are 'engaging' the gear directly. You are not.
You can indeed choose what gear to be in most of the time, but you cannot change it manually.
Its called and automatic gearbox because it physically changes the gear AUTOMATICALLY.
Mols right, to try and imply that the PDK-S does not at least have an Auto mode function, is just bonkersThe gearbox is the one that operates the clutches and moves the mechanical parts to physically change the gear. Indeed, as you know, it pre-engages the next gear for you aswell. It controls and actions the whole process by very complicated and accurate programming by Porsches engineers. It is a superb piece of engineering.
All you do, is request the change via a button. A digital, binary on or off button. You do not change the gear manually.
Indeed, Porsche understand this very well and Andreas talked about it in detail, making the paddle more 'emotional'. That is, giving it a more mechanical like feel and fine tuning the way that the gearbox slots the gear home, to make you feel like you are 'engaging' the gear directly. You are not.
You can indeed choose what gear to be in most of the time, but you cannot change it manually.
Its called and automatic gearbox because it physically changes the gear AUTOMATICALLY.
APOLO1 said:
mollytherocker said:
I can assure you that I fully understand how it 'works'. Its an automatic gearbox. You cannot manually change gear. You can press a button that directs the gearbox to change gear for you.
The gearbox is the one that operates the clutches and moves the mechanical parts to physically change the gear. Indeed, as you know, it pre-engages the next gear for you aswell. It controls and actions the whole process by very complicated and accurate programming by Porsches engineers. It is a superb piece of engineering.
All you do, is request the change via a button. A digital, binary on or off button. You do not change the gear manually.
Indeed, Porsche understand this very well and Andreas talked about it in detail, making the paddle more 'emotional'. That is, giving it a more mechanical like feel and fine tuning the way that the gearbox slots the gear home, to make you feel like you are 'engaging' the gear directly. You are not.
You can indeed choose what gear to be in most of the time, but you cannot change it manually.
Its called and automatic gearbox because it physically changes the gear AUTOMATICALLY.
Mols right, to try and imply that the PDK-S does not at least have an Auto mode function, is just bonkersThe gearbox is the one that operates the clutches and moves the mechanical parts to physically change the gear. Indeed, as you know, it pre-engages the next gear for you aswell. It controls and actions the whole process by very complicated and accurate programming by Porsches engineers. It is a superb piece of engineering.
All you do, is request the change via a button. A digital, binary on or off button. You do not change the gear manually.
Indeed, Porsche understand this very well and Andreas talked about it in detail, making the paddle more 'emotional'. That is, giving it a more mechanical like feel and fine tuning the way that the gearbox slots the gear home, to make you feel like you are 'engaging' the gear directly. You are not.
You can indeed choose what gear to be in most of the time, but you cannot change it manually.
Its called and automatic gearbox because it physically changes the gear AUTOMATICALLY.
mollytherocker said:
Its called and automatic gearbox because it physically changes the gear AUTOMATICALLY.
Actually...it is a gearbox in which the shifting between gears is AUTOMATED...that is to say that user action triggers a set of code that "fly by wire" drives a logic controller to execute a set of instructions that translate these steps into physical, mechanical actions
the complexity of the required action set depends on the sophistication and type of gearbox: single clutch automated manual (360, V12VS), dual clutch (R8, 997, F458), or torque converter (XK-R, Panamera Diesel...)...
this order for much of the past decade broadly reflected a progression in (comparative) ability to manage without human intervention...or put another way...D in a V12VS is weak..whereas you would be quite happy to never intervene in a Pana Diesel...
A well honed dual clutch affords the ability to make the box dance to your own directions..or let the adaptive (neural network based?) controller just do the work for you....PDK-S seems to have fully delivered in both these attributes...technology has effectively blurred the distinction/lines.
APOLO1 said:
mollytherocker said:
I can assure you that I fully understand how it 'works'. Its an automatic gearbox. You cannot manually change gear. You can press a button that directs the gearbox to change gear for you.
The gearbox is the one that operates the clutches and moves the mechanical parts to physically change the gear. Indeed, as you know, it pre-engages the next gear for you aswell. It controls and actions the whole process by very complicated and accurate programming by Porsches engineers. It is a superb piece of engineering.
All you do, is request the change via a button. A digital, binary on or off button. You do not change the gear manually.
Indeed, Porsche understand this very well and Andreas talked about it in detail, making the paddle more 'emotional'. That is, giving it a more mechanical like feel and fine tuning the way that the gearbox slots the gear home, to make you feel like you are 'engaging' the gear directly. You are not.
You can indeed choose what gear to be in most of the time, but you cannot change it manually.
Its called and automatic gearbox because it physically changes the gear AUTOMATICALLY.
Mols right, to try and imply that the PDK-S does not at least have an Auto mode function, is just bonkersThe gearbox is the one that operates the clutches and moves the mechanical parts to physically change the gear. Indeed, as you know, it pre-engages the next gear for you aswell. It controls and actions the whole process by very complicated and accurate programming by Porsches engineers. It is a superb piece of engineering.
All you do, is request the change via a button. A digital, binary on or off button. You do not change the gear manually.
Indeed, Porsche understand this very well and Andreas talked about it in detail, making the paddle more 'emotional'. That is, giving it a more mechanical like feel and fine tuning the way that the gearbox slots the gear home, to make you feel like you are 'engaging' the gear directly. You are not.
You can indeed choose what gear to be in most of the time, but you cannot change it manually.
Its called and automatic gearbox because it physically changes the gear AUTOMATICALLY.
This is hilarious. Can I join in?
Porsche says: http://www.porscheownersmanuals.com/2012-911-carre...
"Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) is a seven-speed transmission with an automatic and a manual selection mode.
In automatic selection mode (selector-lever position D), gear changing is automatic.
You can change temporarily from automatic to manual mode using the shift buttons on the steering wheel.
In manual selection mode (selector-lever position M), you change gear using the shift buttons or shift paddles on the steering wheel or with the PDK selector lever.
You can change between selector-lever positions D and M as you wish while driving."
So it is a transmission with automatic and manual selection modes.
Now on to language. It is helpful and therefore conventional to describe a a subject in a manner that establishes its key characteristics.
- An open-top car is usually described as such even if the roof is on
- A four-seater car is usually described as such even if all four seats are not being used
To argue that PDK shouldn't be described as an automatic because you can choose not to use the D-position seems obtuse.
Neither "manual" nor "automatic" are good descriptions of PDK, but "automatic" is the better of the two for the reasons outlined above.
Porsche says: http://www.porscheownersmanuals.com/2012-911-carre...
"Porsche Doppelkupplung (PDK) is a seven-speed transmission with an automatic and a manual selection mode.
In automatic selection mode (selector-lever position D), gear changing is automatic.
You can change temporarily from automatic to manual mode using the shift buttons on the steering wheel.
In manual selection mode (selector-lever position M), you change gear using the shift buttons or shift paddles on the steering wheel or with the PDK selector lever.
You can change between selector-lever positions D and M as you wish while driving."
So it is a transmission with automatic and manual selection modes.
Now on to language. It is helpful and therefore conventional to describe a a subject in a manner that establishes its key characteristics.
- An open-top car is usually described as such even if the roof is on
- A four-seater car is usually described as such even if all four seats are not being used
To argue that PDK shouldn't be described as an automatic because you can choose not to use the D-position seems obtuse.
Neither "manual" nor "automatic" are good descriptions of PDK, but "automatic" is the better of the two for the reasons outlined above.
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