LHD Pork Watch Thread - Euro crash edition
Discussion
Harris_I said:
Can someone explain this to me? What's the big deal with sourcing a CS? Is it a resale disaster to add buckets, cage, cut off and extinguisher to a 'comfort'?
Genuine question. Are people paying more for CS and if so, why?
Yes. Rarity and desirability.Genuine question. Are people paying more for CS and if so, why?
Not a resale disaster as such, but the 996 buckets are no longer produced so you can't buy them new any more and will have to brave eBay for the pairs that show up once in a blue moon for even increasing prices in order to source them. Then the Clubsport cage (which is significantly different to the tequipment one) requires mounting plates to be welded into the shell and puts about £4k on your budget. Consequently, if you want a CS it has traditionally been cheaper to buy one at a premium than retrofit a comfort. With the 997s it is worse still - brace yourself before you take a look at the price of retrofitting buckets to one of those. If you are going to buy a comfort, buckets are a must have unless the car is cheap and if you want a cage then you can still pay thousands extra for a CS and still spend less money.
However, with typically less than a quarter of GT3s being CS, the scarcity of cars in general consequently makes sourcing a clubbie harder still. This may put retrofits back on the table.
Everyone who failed to tick the Clubsport box on the spec sheet and planned to keep the car long term basically gave away £6-10k. This is not any kind of revelation either.
Edited by DiscoColin on Friday 13th March 23:22
TheBMWDriver said:
I think a lot of people have not understood the VAT thing.
Many people in the EU buy a car and register it to their company and claim the full VAT back. When they sell it on they charge VAT on the sale price. If the next owner plans to do the same or to Export it out of the EU they can claim the VAT back also.
My friends have run 458's, lambos and all sorts of high end cars like this.
Lets say I buy a brand new car at 120k inc VAT, I claim back 20k in VAT. I then sell the car a few years later at 50k inc vat (41.6k +vat) I only have to pay the VAT man back10k8.4k, so I have actually only lost 58.4k and not the full 70k.
EFAMany people in the EU buy a car and register it to their company and claim the full VAT back. When they sell it on they charge VAT on the sale price. If the next owner plans to do the same or to Export it out of the EU they can claim the VAT back also.
My friends have run 458's, lambos and all sorts of high end cars like this.
Lets say I buy a brand new car at 120k inc VAT, I claim back 20k in VAT. I then sell the car a few years later at 50k inc vat (41.6k +vat) I only have to pay the VAT man back
I don't know about other countries' rules but in the UK the list of business types that can claim back VAT is quite limited. It's something like:
Car dealers
Contract hire and leasing companies
Funeral directors
Taxi firms
Driving experience/track companies
In addition, any non-EU based buyer can re-claim the VAT when it's exported outside the EU.
As soon as a car is bought by any person or business that is not eligible to re-claim it, it is no longer ever possible to re-claim the VAT for any subsequent buyers.
I think it highly unlikely many of the cars listed on this thread will still be "VAT qualifying" so to list any EU cars as "including VAT" is mis-leading as it implies an exporter could reclaim 16.67% of the purchase price.
thegoose said:
EFA
I don't know about other countries' rules but in the UK the list of business types that can claim back VAT is quite limited. It's something like:
Car dealers
Contract hire and leasing companies
Funeral directors
Taxi firms
Driving experience/track companies
In addition, any non-EU based buyer can re-claim the VAT when it's exported outside the EU.
As soon as a car is bought by any person or business that is not eligible to re-claim it, it is no longer ever possible to re-claim the VAT for any subsequent buyers.
I think it highly unlikely many of the cars listed on this thread will still be "VAT qualifying" so to list any EU cars as "including VAT" is mis-leading as it implies an exporter could reclaim 16.67% of the purchase price.
Yes, the rules are not the same in all EU countries but I claimed 100% of the VAT on all the cars I bought when I lived in Prague. The rules did change from time to time, at first they had to be N1 rated cars but that changed back in 2010.I don't know about other countries' rules but in the UK the list of business types that can claim back VAT is quite limited. It's something like:
Car dealers
Contract hire and leasing companies
Funeral directors
Taxi firms
Driving experience/track companies
In addition, any non-EU based buyer can re-claim the VAT when it's exported outside the EU.
As soon as a car is bought by any person or business that is not eligible to re-claim it, it is no longer ever possible to re-claim the VAT for any subsequent buyers.
I think it highly unlikely many of the cars listed on this thread will still be "VAT qualifying" so to list any EU cars as "including VAT" is mis-leading as it implies an exporter could reclaim 16.67% of the purchase price.
I agree the older cars are unlikely to be VAT qualifying.
DiscoColin said:
Harris_I said:
Can someone explain this to me? What's the big deal with sourcing a CS? Is it a resale disaster to add buckets, cage, cut off and extinguisher to a 'comfort'?
Genuine question. Are people paying more for CS and if so, why?
Yes. Rarity and desirability.Genuine question. Are people paying more for CS and if so, why?
Not a resale disaster as such, but the 996 buckets are no longer produced so you can't buy them new any more and will have to brave eBay for the pairs that show up once in a blue moon for even increasing prices in order to source them. Then the Clubsport cage (which is significantly different to the tequipment one) requires mounting plates to be welded into the shell and puts about £4k on your budget. Consequently, if you want a CS it has traditionally been cheaper to buy one at a premium than retrofit a comfort. With the 997s it is worse still - brace yourself before you take a look at the price of retrofitting buckets to one of those. If you are going to buy a comfort, buckets are a must have unless the car is cheap and if you want a cage then you can still pay thousands extra for a CS and still spend less money.
However, with typically less than a quarter of GT3s being CS, the scarcity of cars in general consequently makes sourcing a clubbie harder still. This may put retrofits back on the table.
Everyone who failed to tick the Clubsport box on the spec sheet and planned to keep the car long term basically gave away £6-10k. This is not any kind of revelation either.
Edited by DiscoColin on Friday 13th March 23:22
The disparity between LHD and RHD seems nonsensical to me. The gap has to correct at some point. (I have 2 LHD cars and the only time it's a problem is collecting tickets from supermarket carparks).
Harris_I said:
The disparity between LHD and RHD seems nonsensical to me. The gap has to correct at some point. (I have 2 LHD cars and the only time it's a problem is collecting tickets from supermarket carparks).
Depends upon the car. For many models of Porsche the RHD cars are a very small proportion of production and are fairly rare whereas there are a hugely greater number of LHD cars in circulation across Europe. As a for-instance they only made 120 UK RHD versions of my car out of a run of 2256. When the supply of LHD and RHD is so disparate, for the values to converge is very far from given...darreni said:
Carl_Docklands said:
991 GT3 Clubsport in White with Steels.
OPC Basel. 5k Miles, Approx. £109k inc. OPC Wilmslow have a similar car (with Cermaics) for £159k.
Assuming they'll do VAT free for export to a non EU country, that's £90k. OPC Basel. 5k Miles, Approx. £109k inc. OPC Wilmslow have a similar car (with Cermaics) for £159k.
That is pretty tempting...
Kananga said:
Is import duty applicable to cars brought to the UK from Switzerland ?
Within the EU, I understand that there is no import duty, and VAT only applies if the car is too new (?).
Yes, (Swiss price + shipping cost) + 10%, then add another 20% VAT to the total. So a £99,000 car plus £1,000 shipping will cost you £132,000.Within the EU, I understand that there is no import duty, and VAT only applies if the car is too new (?).
However, cars under 3 years old may get Returned Goods Relief whereby for EU manufactured goods returning to an EU country the 10% import duty is waived, so in the example above the total would be just £120,000. You'd need to check when the 3 years starts from - manufacture or first registration.
You're right about no duty on EU imports. Regarding VAT see my earlier post about who's eligible to re-claim it etc, no age limit per se but as soon as a car's bought by any person or business that isn't eligible to re-claim the VAT that's it, there is never any VAT re-claimable or chargeable on it anymore.
generally speaking, if a car falls under EU vat law, hmrc will enforce vat payments on EU sourced goods and if you are a private individual living in the UK you have to pay the Vat on the purchase. if you buy an EU car where vat is payable and don't pay the full vat, hmrc will require proof when you import the car. if you can't prove vat was paid then, hmrc will bill you for the vat seperatley.
there will always be exceptions and dodges to that but generally speaking in the UK, if you are a private individual, you will need to pay vat on all purchases caught by EU legislation.
there will always be exceptions and dodges to that but generally speaking in the UK, if you are a private individual, you will need to pay vat on all purchases caught by EU legislation.
Switzerland is part of EFTA (European Free Trade Association) so there would be no 10% duty, just UK VAT, to deal with.
Swiss cars are generally registered to individuals not corporates. If you do find a car owned by a corporate, there could be some room to negotiate the price down as the invoiced price will not need to include 8% Swiss VAT and in theory, the vendor could reduce his asking price by that amount without hitting his own pocket - but such transactions would appear to be rare and the local websites don't highlight cars that are corporate owned so consider it a windfall if you find one but don't waste time looking.
This LHD low miles 996.2 Clubsport GT3 in Guards caught my eye.. Importable for under £60k all-in.
http://www.autoscout24.ch/fr/d/porsche-911-coupe-2...
Swiss cars are generally registered to individuals not corporates. If you do find a car owned by a corporate, there could be some room to negotiate the price down as the invoiced price will not need to include 8% Swiss VAT and in theory, the vendor could reduce his asking price by that amount without hitting his own pocket - but such transactions would appear to be rare and the local websites don't highlight cars that are corporate owned so consider it a windfall if you find one but don't waste time looking.
This LHD low miles 996.2 Clubsport GT3 in Guards caught my eye.. Importable for under £60k all-in.
http://www.autoscout24.ch/fr/d/porsche-911-coupe-2...
Carl_Docklands said:
generally speaking, if a car falls under EU vat law, hmrc will enforce vat payments on EU sourced goods and if you are a private individual living in the UK you have to pay the Vat on the purchase. if you buy an EU car where vat is payable and don't pay the full vat, hmrc will require proof when you import the car. if you can't prove vat was paid then, hmrc will bill you for the vat seperatley.
there will always be exceptions and dodges to that but generally speaking in the UK, if you are a private individual, you will need to pay vat on all purchases caught by EU legislation.
You might be getting confused between new and used vehicles here.there will always be exceptions and dodges to that but generally speaking in the UK, if you are a private individual, you will need to pay vat on all purchases caught by EU legislation.
Have a look at:
https://www.gov.uk/importing-vehicles-into-the-uk/...
Specifically this bit:
HMRC via .gov website said:
Pay VAT
HMRC will tell you how much VAT is due and how to pay.
You’ll usually pay VAT on the vehicle, accessories bought with it and any delivery or incidental charges.
Second-hand vehicles
You don’t usually have to pay VAT if you’re importing a second-hand vehicle and the VAT was paid in another EU country.
You’ll have to pay VAT if your vehicle is classed as a ‘new means of transport’ - ie it’s less than 6 months old and has done less than 6,000km (about 3,728 miles). HMRC will tell you if this is the case.
HMRC will tell you how much VAT is due and how to pay.
You’ll usually pay VAT on the vehicle, accessories bought with it and any delivery or incidental charges.
Second-hand vehicles
You don’t usually have to pay VAT if you’re importing a second-hand vehicle and the VAT was paid in another EU country.
You’ll have to pay VAT if your vehicle is classed as a ‘new means of transport’ - ie it’s less than 6 months old and has done less than 6,000km (about 3,728 miles). HMRC will tell you if this is the case.
I avoided posting on tax because from previous experience everyone has their own view on it.
the adverts I have posted clearly state in most cases the vat situation of the car, in a lot of cases vat is applicable at 20%, you can see this from the advertisement. if you want to take a different path then that's fine but don't drag me into a debate about it.
please no more tax posts or questions on duty and just post the cars. if you want to know about how vat and duty works, just post your own thread.
I think everyone is only after clarity as to "what will it cost me by the time it's here and I can use it?" - maybe it would have been easier to quote prices as "by the time UK registered", perhaps with the inclusion of a notional £1000 transport cost for simplicity?
Either way it's a bit hypocritical to make a statement about the VAT etc and then in your very next post to ask everyone to cease from doing so, don't you think?
Anyway, fair enough, rather than debate it I'd be keen to see more of the cars you or anyone else finds with a "landed in UK, ready to use" price as it will indeed be interesting to see them.
Either way it's a bit hypocritical to make a statement about the VAT etc and then in your very next post to ask everyone to cease from doing so, don't you think?
Anyway, fair enough, rather than debate it I'd be keen to see more of the cars you or anyone else finds with a "landed in UK, ready to use" price as it will indeed be interesting to see them.
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