Used LHD prices for Carrera GT?
Discussion
i cant see where the comparison is been made between a 993GT2 and the carrera GT, i had mine(993GT2)for nearly four years , it was the bollox of a car , but not that far removed from its brothers and sisters (993rs and 993tt) the CGT is as close as you will get to a F1 car (for the road) chalk and cheese !! the only things these car have in comon is the badge , as for prices who ever said the CGT will drop to £170,000 is talking shite !! i think they will level at £200,000 ish ! as for the 993GT2 £150,000 seems to be the bench mark for rhd (which we set)!
JWB
JWB
oh dear , have arrived very late to this and RC of J may close early on W/end sessions
Flemke having agreed with u in the past on a lot of ur wise sayings i find the only thing i can agree with on the 993 GT2 saga is that u wud prefer a CS if u had to have either. Having been lucky enough to have mine out for the first time on track earlier this week i can only say how surprised i am , as to how different it is to the comfort version i have for sale ................and for what i wish to use it for the better choice for me , after all no one needs one so if the press choose to hype them up then the challenge for us is to find out if they re right, its all very much a personal choice .
Where i do think ur being a little reactionary and i am surprised bearing in mind the cars u must have driven, on track from what i gather, is that u feel GT2 s have such a bad time ...............i made one bad mistake as every one knows and i paid for it,for those that dont the car was nt stuffed ,however my point i take isssue on is.......... if u dont drive a 2 wheel drive car, of any sort, with IRO 500 BHP with a fair amount of control u simply wont have it long ,the cars in question as we all know have the power and weight all at one end, will and do bite back.......some folks like going sideways more than others , but to drive any circuit flat out for much of a lap can push even Derek Bell , not in my car but i did nt actually enjoy the passenger ride that much , however Richard Attwood ,passenger ride in CGT , he did nt even brake sweat and i left the car without wobbling, overall just as quick i hasten to add,so not everyone drives the same way to achieve the same effect and mere mortals on track days differ likewise. Anyone who took a GT2 through gravel too often would nt have much GT2 left and none of the people on here can afford that game , to date i ve not seen one come off at all while i ve been around[ did a few track days last year i will admit] The car concerned was driven doing what it was built for, no one's said it yet , but other than The Fatherland where could you really enjoy a GT2 on public roads ? I drive mine to work whenever i can [ my jobs a bit dull u see] but although its well mannered and never fluffs or any other old fashioned things [cold brakes etc ] its not very stimulating..............so without making any other excuses i am happy to have had the chance to track these[and other cars]and feel something special they can offer when under control at the limit.............cant really say what it does to the value but going to the other extreme keeping them polished in a museum certainly does them no good mechanically............an old 3 0 rs i tracked for 10 years sold at around £125 just went through at £180 end of last year so it did nt affect that one ...............sorry its one of the few Fridays i have nt found a victim for lunch or u may have been spared all this , but certainly NOT all GT2 s are thrashed to death ..........very few cud manage it without thrashing themselves to death at the same time !
Talking of which must be time to put the black hat on ?
Flemke having agreed with u in the past on a lot of ur wise sayings i find the only thing i can agree with on the 993 GT2 saga is that u wud prefer a CS if u had to have either. Having been lucky enough to have mine out for the first time on track earlier this week i can only say how surprised i am , as to how different it is to the comfort version i have for sale ................and for what i wish to use it for the better choice for me , after all no one needs one so if the press choose to hype them up then the challenge for us is to find out if they re right, its all very much a personal choice .
Where i do think ur being a little reactionary and i am surprised bearing in mind the cars u must have driven, on track from what i gather, is that u feel GT2 s have such a bad time ...............i made one bad mistake as every one knows and i paid for it,for those that dont the car was nt stuffed ,however my point i take isssue on is.......... if u dont drive a 2 wheel drive car, of any sort, with IRO 500 BHP with a fair amount of control u simply wont have it long ,the cars in question as we all know have the power and weight all at one end, will and do bite back.......some folks like going sideways more than others , but to drive any circuit flat out for much of a lap can push even Derek Bell , not in my car but i did nt actually enjoy the passenger ride that much , however Richard Attwood ,passenger ride in CGT , he did nt even brake sweat and i left the car without wobbling, overall just as quick i hasten to add,so not everyone drives the same way to achieve the same effect and mere mortals on track days differ likewise. Anyone who took a GT2 through gravel too often would nt have much GT2 left and none of the people on here can afford that game , to date i ve not seen one come off at all while i ve been around[ did a few track days last year i will admit] The car concerned was driven doing what it was built for, no one's said it yet , but other than The Fatherland where could you really enjoy a GT2 on public roads ? I drive mine to work whenever i can [ my jobs a bit dull u see] but although its well mannered and never fluffs or any other old fashioned things [cold brakes etc ] its not very stimulating..............so without making any other excuses i am happy to have had the chance to track these[and other cars]and feel something special they can offer when under control at the limit.............cant really say what it does to the value but going to the other extreme keeping them polished in a museum certainly does them no good mechanically............an old 3 0 rs i tracked for 10 years sold at around £125 just went through at £180 end of last year so it did nt affect that one ...............sorry its one of the few Fridays i have nt found a victim for lunch or u may have been spared all this , but certainly NOT all GT2 s are thrashed to death ..........very few cud manage it without thrashing themselves to death at the same time !
Talking of which must be time to put the black hat on ?
flemke said:
If you could only keep 1 car out of your 959 and CGT which would you choose?
They have both created headaches as well.
Which do you prefer?
CGT for me. Not as many electric gizmos to get in the way of the driving and the sound of the V10 at full whack would sound fantastic with the roof pannels off.
willibetz said:It's not linear. The brakes need time to cool between applications. In the context of the sort of circuit driving that we do and the cars that we're talking about, if your braking is longer and more gradual the system will often not have enough time to cool before the next application. Obviously harder braking generates more energy per increment of time than softer braking will do, but there is a crossover point. Cross it and even though you generate a lower max temp, the system cannot cope repeatedly with lower temps for longer periods without respite.
Won't using the brakes to slow from speed x to speed y always generate the same energy, regardless of technique? So how do you avoid bad braking, and do good braking instead?
>> Edited by flemke on Friday 3rd March 19:36
flemke said:
....With respect to CGT, I know how mine's been driven, because I've been the driver.
[pedant mode on/] I swear I've seen a certain Mr.Perry swap his '64RS for the hallowed seat at the 'Ring before! [pedant mode off/]
If it's any consolation, he did look VERY nervous. Bless him!Davey S2 said:Well, if we're talking about the 959 Sport, it doesn't have the electronic damping baloney. It has ABS, PAS and that diff that apportions power between axles, but that's it. The CGT has ABS, PAS and traction control (which can be stitched off), so, with respect to gizmos, I'm not sure that there is too much in it. The 959 does have the tyre-pressure sensors, but they don't get in the way at all.
CGT for me. Not as many electric gizmos to get in the way of the driving and the sound of the V10 at full whack would sound fantastic with the roof pannels off.
The 959 driving experience is at least as direct as the CGT one.
Driving the 959 is more satisfying and aesthetically pleasing; driving the CGT is a lot more exciting.
You don't want to drive it without the roof panels. Over maybe 125 there is so much wind noise that you can't hear any of the sounds that the car's making.
flemke said:
The brakes need time to cool between applications. In the context of the sort of circuit driving that we do and the cars that we're talking about, if your braking is longer and more gradual the system will often not have enough time to cool before the next application. Obviously harder braking generates more energy per increment of time than softer braking will do, but there is a crossover point. Cross it and even though you generate a lower max temp, the system cannot cope repeatedly with lower temps for longer periods without no respite.
Thanks. I can certainly believe that.
And, with some thought, I might even understand it...
johnny senna said:
we may bring all three of them , but probably just the minardi and the euroburn !!
JWB
Now thats a frightening thought, Nobby in a F1
Hi Paul. Are you coming to Croft for the Specialist Cars of Malton track day?
Depends if I ever get the car back
, Shudda never said I wont be using the car before Oulton RS dayRedRSR said:
we may bring all three of them , but probably just the minardi and the euroburn !!
JWB
Now thats a frightening thought, Nobby in a F1
Hi Paul. Are you coming to Croft for the Specialist Cars of Malton track day?
Depends if I ever get the car back
Aw, come on! You gotta come. If your RS isn't ready I can lend you my 175k mile Mondeo 1.8 LX Verona.
Top thread. Nice to have folk discussing these cars that actually own the things.
For what it's worth, at Spa last year, I had a good look at the 993 GT2s of IMOM, 993rsr and Herr Orange and I thought at the time that I wouldn't swap one for a Carrera GT (there was Mr Breslin's yellow one there basking in the sun). But now I'm not so sure. I'd love a black Carrera GT, mainly for that engine. And then I saw this clip and I made up my mind.....I'd take the Carrera GT:
video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1294420330942974226&q=porsche">http://video.google.com/videoplay?doc
The way I see it, down on planet earth, you need be doing reasonable OK to own and run a 964RS/993 RS/996 GT3. But you need to be fairly wealthy to own and run a 993 GT2. Whereas you need to be very wealthy indeed to run a Carrera GT.
well i would swop my gt2 for a carrera gt,having been a owner of a gt2 for 7 years now,never driven the shit out of it though,always 7 or 8 tenths.Its just like new or better.Yes i know its a bit of a garage queen,but boy does it look good.
The race car i have driven at 10/10ths,over curbs ,driven the bollox off it,very reliable and actually cheaper to run in a season than my old cup car was.
These cars are built to drive hard and full respect to any one trying,even if they end up in the gravel ,so what.
Its all about driving,pushing your self and the car.Look at IMOM & JC for example there cars are a credit to them,sit in the passenger seat with either around the ring.I am just pleased imom can not smoke a fag while driving with a full face helmet on,(picture it).
(sorry for blowing wind up your back sides)
Also more important than driving them hard,is the service history and correct maintance,that they deserve.
I just wish people would not compare what a turbo s is like unto a gt2,its as bad as the top gear comparisons.They are just not built simply for the same purpose.Now if asked the question what is a turbo s like compared to a standard turbo,most would say the standard turbo is better.Then compare what a 1995 gt2 is like compared to the 1997/8 evo version,they are very similar.
The carrera gt is in a differant ball park,its a fantastic car,but a little remote on the driving experience until you get to push it.But thats how it was intended,respect it and drive with a differant style to the good oh 911.After all it is mid engined,and i spun my old 914 many times while trying to get to grips with it.
If you look at values,anything with a motorsport pedigree has a value,more often than not as time goes on,they increase.I think a gt2 is cheap compared to the crap thats on the market now,in perspective its only getting to near its new price after 10 years.
My old 1971 car is now 60 times more than its new price,so were does that leave the gt2 in years to come.
Wait until the gt2 is eligible for classic lemans and the like,then see the values rise.
sorry back to the question on gt prices,i have been offered a carrera gt today for 200k,its done 12k miles.
.
The race car i have driven at 10/10ths,over curbs ,driven the bollox off it,very reliable and actually cheaper to run in a season than my old cup car was.
These cars are built to drive hard and full respect to any one trying,even if they end up in the gravel ,so what.
Its all about driving,pushing your self and the car.Look at IMOM & JC for example there cars are a credit to them,sit in the passenger seat with either around the ring.I am just pleased imom can not smoke a fag while driving with a full face helmet on,(picture it).
(sorry for blowing wind up your back sides)
Also more important than driving them hard,is the service history and correct maintance,that they deserve.
I just wish people would not compare what a turbo s is like unto a gt2,its as bad as the top gear comparisons.They are just not built simply for the same purpose.Now if asked the question what is a turbo s like compared to a standard turbo,most would say the standard turbo is better.Then compare what a 1995 gt2 is like compared to the 1997/8 evo version,they are very similar.
The carrera gt is in a differant ball park,its a fantastic car,but a little remote on the driving experience until you get to push it.But thats how it was intended,respect it and drive with a differant style to the good oh 911.After all it is mid engined,and i spun my old 914 many times while trying to get to grips with it.
If you look at values,anything with a motorsport pedigree has a value,more often than not as time goes on,they increase.I think a gt2 is cheap compared to the crap thats on the market now,in perspective its only getting to near its new price after 10 years.
My old 1971 car is now 60 times more than its new price,so were does that leave the gt2 in years to come.
Wait until the gt2 is eligible for classic lemans and the like,then see the values rise.
sorry back to the question on gt prices,i have been offered a carrera gt today for 200k,its done 12k miles.
.
paul rsr where is the red clubsport then,i hope you will be at oulton with it.
John wish i was faster its beefburger here,when is the track day at croft,i feel like chasing nobby and you,and i am sure it will be good fun.You boys will have to teach me a few tricks of the trade at croft.
John wish i was faster its beefburger here,when is the track day at croft,i feel like chasing nobby and you,and i am sure it will be good fun.You boys will have to teach me a few tricks of the trade at croft.
bergmeister said:
paul rsr where is the red clubsport then,i hope you will be at oulton with it.
John wish i was faster its beefburger here,when is the track day at croft,i feel like chasing nobby and you,and i am sure it will be good fun.You boys will have to teach me a few tricks of the trade at croft.
Hi Paul,
Croft is on Thursday 18 May. It's being organised by Mr J Wishbone:
www.specialistcarsltd.co.uk/events.htm
It would be top banana if you could make it. Porsches only and not many cars being allowed in either, open pitlane, should be a wally-free day. I have paid already! Flamespitter is going, although his 3 (count them) 993 GT2s are staying at home. He is taking his lovely yellow 964 Turbo S. Unless I can persuade him otherwise! That Konrad 993 GT2 needs to get out more.
It is just before Spa so I can get me eye in. And I absolutely cannot wait!!
johnny senna said:
Hi Paul,
Croft is on Thursday 18 May. It's being organised by Mr J Wishbone
Details about the day are on Spec Cars Forum
Specialist Cars forum
see ya there
bergmeister said:Paul, if you are completely indifferent between a car that's been a regular visitor to the gravel traps and one that's never touched one, then you're a more tolerant man than I.
These cars are built to drive hard and full respect to any one trying,even if they end up in the gravel ,so what.
bergmeister said:I'm not sure that the majority would prefer the standard - I've never heard that before, and not so many folks would have spent a lot of time driving a T-S anyway - but when it comes to cars, different strokes for different folks.
I just wish people would not compare what a turbo s is like unto a gt2,its as bad as the top gear comparisons.They are just not built simply for the same purpose.Now if asked the question what is a turbo s like compared to a standard turbo,most would say the standard turbo is better.
Just to clarify, there was no comparison of the 993 GT2 and T-S, between which there is a bigger gap than between 996 T-S and GT2. Someone suggested factors that might explain GT2 prices. I replied that two of those factors, which are simple matters of objective fact, applied equally to the T-S, yet its secondary price history has been very different from that of the GT2. That's all.
bergmeister said:CGT doesn't have a racing pedigree and never will, but if you can afford it, for £200k (assuming that inc VAT?) you would be getting a fabulous car.
sorry back to the question on gt prices,i have been offered a carrera gt today for 200k,its done 12k miles.
Of course, you'd have to drive it on the Continent...
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