Sold the Car - Privately...
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Sure, but I don't ever see Henry being rude to anyone except when beiing repeatedly referred to as a fraud or rip-off merchant etc. The situation doesn't quite seem to be the same in reverse. (Anyway, I'm sure Henry's big enough and ugly enough to defend himself so I'll shut up.
)Wrong. I never accused any individual here of being a rip-off merchant. I referred to what I saw as endemic in an industry, namely car dealerships/garages just as henry-f refers to scamsters as those who would approach you if you tried to sell your car privately
POORCARDEALER said:
How many of you have been victim of a fraud where you can lose your £40K car?? A crime where the police couldnt give a shit, a fraud where its not considered serious by the police as its less than £250K (thats where the Fraud Squad might take an intrest)..............I wouldnt mock anyone who underlines the pitfalls, even if you think he over eggs it for his own benefit.
Having sold around 40-50 cars in the last 14 years I can say that I have not fallen victim (and saved at least 50k by not selling most of these to the trade).
I've sold 4 cars through PH classifieds (3 Porsches and an Impreza)
Selling privately (IMO) is a matter of using a bit of common sense.
I've found a good way to avoid timewasters is to NOT put a telephone number in your ad.
The tone of a persons first Email to you, normally gives a good feel as to whether the punter is genuine or not.
I send a few mails prior to making contact via phone (or giving my number out)
Once you get talking on the phone you can start asking more relevant questions of the potential purchaser.
I always insist on electronic transfer of funds into my account before releasing the car.
If the punter has ANY issues with this, tough.
I'd rather lose a sale and upset someone than find myself minus the car and the money.
A mate sold his Elise last week, I told him a Building Society cheque was not cleared funds and that the MIMIMUM he should do is check with the issueing branch to ensure its authenticity.
Both his bank manager and the Building Society in question told him that they wouldn't release the car until the funds had been cleared.
He rang me and asked my advice, I told him likewise.
He rang the purchaser who went ballistic and started spouting the old "I thought you were an honourable man with principles etc etc"
My mate rings me back and asks what to do ?
"Tell him to go forth and multiply" I said (it's so much easier when your not the one selling the car
) So what did my mate do ? he capitulated and allowed the purchaser to have the car once he'd paid the cheque into his account ................................
Edited by slippydiff on Tuesday 16th January 15:17
paracetamol said:
From my own perspective I do not understand the point of buying at the "bug price". I recently bought a Boxster 2.7......
This car is a classic reason for our having the bug price. The chap would have paid exactly the same for the car but would have been protected re: ownership, ringing, transfer of funds etc, could p/x, arrange finance (in this instance a friend of the vendor arranged finance but that is not the norm). The car was sold privately because the owner wanted to maximise his return - the reason why people sell cars privately. The problem is they are no longer cheap cars.
paracetamol said:
My ascetion is that the cars that you stock are generally not main dealer "fodder" ie wrong colour, wrong miles etc
Re: the cars we sell a lot of them were sold to their owners (from who we purchased the cars) by the main dealers so they are not "sub prime" at all. Bear in mind the main dealers don`t usually get involved in "older" cars and so they may not be interested in buying them back for that reason, although there are instances where we bid against the main dealers and win the cars on price.
POORCARDEALER said:
How many of you have been victim of a fraud where you can lose your £40K car?? A crime where the police couldnt give a shit, a fraud where its not considered serious by the police as its less than £250K (thats where the Fraud Squad might take an intrest)..............I wouldnt mock anyone who underlines the pitfalls, even if you think he over eggs it for his own benefit.
don't know anyone who has lost any money selling a car privately due to a scam. However, know quite a few who have tried to sell a car they bought from an OPC or dealer a year or two later and realised they had been 'misled' regarding the potential trade in at time of sale
misled or scammed, take your pick, two different words but lead to the same result - loss of money for the customer through devious methods.
Henry-F said:
In that instance I think the chap paid about the same as he would with our bug price. The downside is he has no protection at all.
Henry
Henry Marks' car had extended warranty until July 07 so why would it have no protection? Or do you mean if the car was a dudd?? TBH I had a lemon from a Official MB dealer and they did nothing so not sure what extra cover it would provide buying from a dealer if Marks car had transferable warranty?
silver993tt said:
However, know quite a few who have tried to sell a car they bought from an OPC or dealer a year or two later and realised they had been 'misled' regarding the potential trade in at time of sale
misled or scammed, take your pick, two different words but lead to the same result - loss of money for the customer through devious methods.
misled or scammed, take your pick, two different words but lead to the same result - loss of money for the customer through devious methods.
Absolutely, I had a chap ring us with an `04 996 anniversary purchased 11 months ago from an opc at £52k. He asked the question would it hold it`s value and was told definately. You knew damn well that car was going to do it`s brains being the last of an old model with an ever increasing number of 997`s hitting the streets.
But when I try and tell people to think carefully about what they are buying, take a few miles on the clock and not necessarily buy the last of a line to lower the price and reduce depreciation I get shot down and suddenly all my cars have gallactic milages. You can`t win. Ultimately I have some cars in stock that are going to fare very well in the future, others which people buy because they want a nearly new car. We buy a lot of our cars off customers when they want to get rid of them so it`s in our interest to minimise depreciation if we can. The advice given on here seems to centre on making sure prospective purchasers buy a car with a switchable exhaust and a particular spec, very rarely do I hear people give advise which will limit depreciation.
Henry
CUE99 said:
Henry Marks' car had extended warranty until July 07 so why would it have no protection? Or do you mean if the car was a dudd?? TBH I had a lemon from a Official MB dealer and they did nothing so not sure what extra cover it would provide buying from a dealer if Marks car had transferable warranty?
This car is a classic reason for our having the bug price. The chap would have paid exactly the same for the car but would have been protected re: ownership, ringing, transfer of funds etc, could p/x, arrange finance (in this instance a friend of the vendor arranged finance but that is not the norm). The car was sold privately because the owner wanted to maximise his return - the reason why people sell cars privately. The problem is they are no longer cheap cars.
Henry-F said:
paracetamol said:
From my own perspective I do not understand the point of buying at the "bug price". I recently bought a Boxster 2.7......
This car is a classic reason for our having the bug price. The chap would have paid exactly the same for the car but would have been protected re: ownership, ringing, transfer of funds etc, could p/x, arrange finance (in this instance a friend of the vendor arranged finance but that is not the norm). The car was sold privately because the owner wanted to maximise his return - the reason why people sell cars privately. The problem is they are no longer cheap cars.
Not correct- the private purchase was £3k cheaper than a similar car at your bug price (but actually older!) What I am asking (and you seem to evade the answer) is what happens to a buyer of a car at the bug price and then the engine fails...would you be obliged to cover the rebuild or would you argue that it was bought without this protection. A £3k premium to prevent being scammed seems quite high to me but then again I've not been caught out yet and so could feel very differently if I were but I do the same checks as you and maybe some more (ie turning up at the buyers house for example).
paracetamol said:
Henry-F said:
paracetamol said:
From my own perspective I do not understand the point of buying at the "bug price". I recently bought a Boxster 2.7......
This car is a classic reason for our having the bug price. The chap would have paid exactly the same for the car but would have been protected re: ownership, ringing, transfer of funds etc, could p/x, arrange finance (in this instance a friend of the vendor arranged finance but that is not the norm). The car was sold privately because the owner wanted to maximise his return - the reason why people sell cars privately. The problem is they are no longer cheap cars.
Not correct- the private purchase was £3k cheaper than a similar car at your bug price (but actually older!) What I am asking (and you seem to evade the answer) is what happens to a buyer of a car at the bug price and then the engine fails...would you be obliged to cover the rebuild or would you argue that it was bought without this protection. A £3k premium to prevent being scammed seems quite high to me but then again I've not been caught out yet and so could feel very differently if I were but I do the same checks as you and maybe some more (ie turning up at the buyers house for example).
You misunderstand my reply. I wasn`t refering to your Boxster, of which I have no knowledge. I was refering to the 996 cab that started this thread sold privately for £40k, which we would have been asking £40k at our bug price.
From your profile it would seem your Boxster was a 2.5. With these cars there is an absolutely enormous spread in terms of condition (one of the largest variations car to car within a model) so to say your car was £3k cheaper than an older one on our website is of no relevance. That car on our website may have been the best example in the country in which case it wold be worth more money.
Re: our bug price I am not avoiding any questions, I`ve scanned the thread and can`t see you have asked the question of me previously anywhere in it. At our bug price you are afforded no protection against mechanical defects. If you bought a car at the bug price however and 2 weeks later the engine failed I would allow you to make up the difference to what was the retail price and we would sort the problem out for you. You are however afforded the protection as outlined above in the thread (you obviously also get the benefit of our knowledge in purchasing the car in the first place).
Hope that answers your question.
Henry
Henry-F said:
paracetamol said:
Henry-F said:
paracetamol said:
From my own perspective I do not understand the point of buying at the "bug price". I recently bought a Boxster 2.7......
This car is a classic reason for our having the bug price. The chap would have paid exactly the same for the car but would have been protected re: ownership, ringing, transfer of funds etc, could p/x, arrange finance (in this instance a friend of the vendor arranged finance but that is not the norm). The car was sold privately because the owner wanted to maximise his return - the reason why people sell cars privately. The problem is they are no longer cheap cars.
Not correct- the private purchase was £3k cheaper than a similar car at your bug price (but actually older!) What I am asking (and you seem to evade the answer) is what happens to a buyer of a car at the bug price and then the engine fails...would you be obliged to cover the rebuild or would you argue that it was bought without this protection. A £3k premium to prevent being scammed seems quite high to me but then again I've not been caught out yet and so could feel very differently if I were but I do the same checks as you and maybe some more (ie turning up at the buyers house for example).
You misunderstand my reply. I wasn`t refering to your Boxster, of which I have no knowledge. I was refering to the 996 cab that started this thread sold privately for £40k, which we would have been asking £40k at our bug price.
From your profile it would seem your Boxster was a 2.5. With these cars there is an absolutely enormous spread in terms of condition (one of the largest variations car to car within a model) so to say your car was £3k cheaper than an older one on our website is of no relevance. That car on our website may have been the best example in the country in which case it wold be worth more money.
Re: our bug price I am not avoiding any questions, I`ve scanned the thread and can`t see you have asked the question of me previously anywhere in it. At our bug price you are afforded no protection against mechanical defects. If you bought a car at the bug price however and 2 weeks later the engine failed I would allow you to make up the difference to what was the retail price and we would sort the problem out for you. You are however afforded the protection as outlined above in the thread (you obviously also get the benefit of our knowledge in purchasing the car in the first place).
Hope that answers your question.
Henry
I thought that by law a trader couldn't sell a car "as is" and that any failure not due to wear and tear in the first 3 months was the liability of the trader in question?
Our pricing structure is quite unique. We offer every car at a full retail price which many people take & at that they are covered (even including wear & tear items such as brake pads!). We also offer two other schemes ranging from sold as seen to sold with a service at cost.
What we could not do is say all the cars were sold as seen. As I said we are quite unique and would self police ourselves by reverting sales to a retail sale retrospecively were a serious problem to occurr.
We have had the trading standards people down (at our invitation) to discuss our methods of trading and to make sure we are doing nothing wrong. They confirmed everything was above board and were very complimentary.
Henry
What we could not do is say all the cars were sold as seen. As I said we are quite unique and would self police ourselves by reverting sales to a retail sale retrospecively were a serious problem to occurr.
We have had the trading standards people down (at our invitation) to discuss our methods of trading and to make sure we are doing nothing wrong. They confirmed everything was above board and were very complimentary.
Henry
Interesting thread. As a business person - albeit in a completely different area to retailing cars - you must be aware that a car dealer is there to run a business and as such must make a profit at the end of the day. That is after paying for staff, premises, advertising, services, insurance, accountancy fees, national insurance etc. etc. as well as financing the stock that could be sitting on the forecourt for a long time. I think you'd be surprised how much these add up to!
Dealers offer a number of benefits over buying / selling privately as have been highlighted in this thread, but of course that doesn't come for free. Cars being cars will vary in how quickly they sell and how much needs to be spent on them - a car dealer, like any other trader will always try and buy for the lowest and resell for the highest - some deals will be more profitable than others. However, competition stops that from becoming excessive, as the amount of spread in the buy/sell price will of course depend on the quality of service and perceived value the buyer is getting from dealing with that trader. Hence why an OPC will be the most expensive, Henry and the other Porsche specialists next and the bloke with 4 cars at the end of a slummy street, the lowest.
If it was the 'easy' money that some seem to be suggesting buying and selling cars, then more traders would set up shop, competition would increase and the prices come down to a natural level where a decent profit can be sustained. i.e no different to any other business. Its all down to supply and demand in the end.
If you buy privately you must be aware of the risks and take the precautions and have the time to travel to one place to view one car. If you want an easy life, trade with a dealer. I've done both in different circumstances depending on what is most conveneient at the time. You pay your money and takes your choice, but it is not a dealer's being 'bad' that they will buy for less than you could sell privately and sell for more that you can buy privately.
Dealers offer a number of benefits over buying / selling privately as have been highlighted in this thread, but of course that doesn't come for free. Cars being cars will vary in how quickly they sell and how much needs to be spent on them - a car dealer, like any other trader will always try and buy for the lowest and resell for the highest - some deals will be more profitable than others. However, competition stops that from becoming excessive, as the amount of spread in the buy/sell price will of course depend on the quality of service and perceived value the buyer is getting from dealing with that trader. Hence why an OPC will be the most expensive, Henry and the other Porsche specialists next and the bloke with 4 cars at the end of a slummy street, the lowest.
If it was the 'easy' money that some seem to be suggesting buying and selling cars, then more traders would set up shop, competition would increase and the prices come down to a natural level where a decent profit can be sustained. i.e no different to any other business. Its all down to supply and demand in the end.
If you buy privately you must be aware of the risks and take the precautions and have the time to travel to one place to view one car. If you want an easy life, trade with a dealer. I've done both in different circumstances depending on what is most conveneient at the time. You pay your money and takes your choice, but it is not a dealer's being 'bad' that they will buy for less than you could sell privately and sell for more that you can buy privately.
Henry-F said:
You misunderstand my reply. I wasn`t refering to your Boxster, of which I have no knowledge. I was refering to the 996 cab that started this thread sold privately for £40k, which we would have been asking £40k at our bug price.
Sorry Henry - I have to take issue with this. There is no way my 18k miles 03 cab with a very desirable spec is up at the same money as a 52 plate coupe with 'at best' an 'iffy' interior. Coupled to the fact that my (old) car was like a new pin, it is 'at least' a £44k forecourt car. Be careful how you answer, because you may be putting something similar on your website in the coming months, and you wouldn't like to be seen contradicting yourself now, would you....
Henry-F said:
paracetamol said:
Henry-F said:
[quote=paracetamol]From my own perspective I do not understand the point of buying at the "bug price". I recently bought a Boxster 2.7......
This car is a classic reason for our having the bug price. The chap would have paid exactly the same for the car but would have been protected re: ownership, ringing, transfer of funds etc, could p/x, arrange finance (in this instance a friend of the vendor arranged finance but that is not the norm). The car was sold privately because the owner wanted to maximise his return - the reason why people sell cars privately. The problem is they are no longer cheap cars.
Re: our bug price I am not avoiding any questions, I`ve scanned the thread and can`t see you have asked the question of me previously anywhere in it. At our bug price you are afforded no protection against mechanical defects. If you bought a car at the bug price however and 2 weeks later the engine failed I would allow you to make up the difference to what was the retail price and we would sort the problem out for you. You are however afforded the protection as outlined above in the thread (you obviously also get the benefit of our knowledge in purchasing the car in the first place).
Hope that answers your question.
Henry
That was an old 2.5 I had in 2000. I was going to buy a Boxster you had advertised but when I called on a sunny Thursday in 2000 to arrange to see it on Saturday you said you were too busy with other customers...and so I went to another garage and bought that one instead...
The Boxster I bought was in December 2006 and is an 03 53 2.7. Compared to your 02 52 it was £3k cheaper via private sale than the bug price and a higher spec. The seller was still happy as he achieved more than the trade value.
Comming clean, I guess that we have a bit of history...as I also got quite irked when you offered me £20k for a LHD 993 in 2001. Ironically you are retailing that same car now for this figure! Another trade poster on this board purchased the car for cash for £23.5k in 2001 (and yes he bid before seeing it and didnt alter his bid when he came to collect!). It was at this point I realised the 911virgin business model doesnt work for me- BUT does work for others-I cannot argue with your obvious success
Henry-F said:
This car is a classic reason for our having the bug price. The chap would have paid exactly the same for the car but would have been protected re: ownership, ringing, transfer of funds etc, could p/x, arrange finance (in this instance a friend of the vendor arranged finance but that is not the norm). The car was sold privately because the owner wanted to maximise his return - the reason why people sell cars privately. The problem is they are no longer cheap cars.
Also, this isn't strictly true.
These are the scenarios - you buy the car from me for £35kish - you sell the car at £40k Bug Price. The owner doesn't even get a 3 month warranty which he gets if he pays another £2k.
OR, he buys the car from me at £40k - gets to meet the owner and vet any potential issues. He also gets to take full advantage of an extended warranty for the next 6months.
He does his own HPI check to avoid any of the other pitfalls...... Job Done...
mbutchers said:
Henry-F said:
This car is a classic reason for our having the bug price. The chap would have paid exactly the same for the car but would have been protected re: ownership, ringing, transfer of funds etc, could p/x, arrange finance (in this instance a friend of the vendor arranged finance but that is not the norm). The car was sold privately because the owner wanted to maximise his return - the reason why people sell cars privately. The problem is they are no longer cheap cars.
Also, this isn't strictly true.
These are the scenarios - you buy the car from me for £35kish - you sell the car at £40k Bug Price. The owner doesn't even get a 3 month warranty which he gets if he pays another £2k.
OR, he buys the car from me at £40k - gets to meet the owner and vet any potential issues. He also gets to take full advantage of an extended warranty for the next 6months.
He does his own HPI check to avoid any of the other pitfalls...... Job Done...
Still no legal comebacks in the event of the car been a ringer, 3 cars welded together, etc etc..........from a dealer he has....why on earth would somebody give the same money privately as from a dealer...........you buy privatly to save money and only to save money.
Edited by POORCARDEALER on Tuesday 16th January 17:37
mbutchers said:
Henry-F said:
You misunderstand my reply. I wasn`t refering to your Boxster, of which I have no knowledge. I was refering to the 996 cab that started this thread sold privately for £40k, which we would have been asking £40k at our bug price.
Sorry Henry - I have to take issue with this. There is no way my 18k miles 03 cab with a very desirable spec is up at the same money as a 52 plate coupe with 'at best' an 'iffy' interior. Coupled to the fact that my (old) car was like a new pin, it is 'at least' a £44k forecourt car. Be careful how you answer, because you may be putting something similar on your website in the coming months, and you wouldn't like to be seen contradicting yourself now, would you....
No, I think we would put the car up at £40/42. That coupe is unusual, it`s done 10,300 miles and is basically as new. Be it right or wrong we are looking for someone who ideally wants single figures on the speedo but who values 10kmls at more than 20k mls. As I`ve said our lovely 20,200 mls silver tip sold on Saturday, asking price £38k so at 40k we are allowing a couple of grand for the fact your car is a cab etc. If I thought for one minute we would get £44k then I would have bought your car for the £40k you were asking.
I think it`s hard to get over £40k for a std 996 these days, they need to be S body cars or turbos.
You did very well to get £40k for the car, I genuinely think that`s exactly what we would have asked at the pink price.
Henry
Precisely what he did - like I say £44k on a dealer forecourt.
The only difference is, a dealer didn't get to take £5k from me.
AND..... how often have you seen a 3yr old Warranted Porsche with FPSH as a ringer....
He was a sensible buyer, who knew his stuff, he came out a few K up, as did I......
The only difference is, a dealer didn't get to take £5k from me.
AND..... how often have you seen a 3yr old Warranted Porsche with FPSH as a ringer....
He was a sensible buyer, who knew his stuff, he came out a few K up, as did I......
Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff