Sold the Car - Privately...
Discussion
mbutchers said:
Precisely what he did - like I say £44k on a dealer forecourt.
The only difference is, a dealer didn't get to take £5k from me.
AND..... how often have you seen a 3yr old Warranted Porsche with FPSH as a ringer....
He was a sensible buyer, who knew his stuff, he came out a few K up, as did I......
The only difference is, a dealer didn't get to take £5k from me.
AND..... how often have you seen a 3yr old Warranted Porsche with FPSH as a ringer....
He was a sensible buyer, who knew his stuff, he came out a few K up, as did I......
So you are the god of selling cars. Well done!!!
Its illegal what 911 virgin do,selling cars to unsuspecting mugs at millenium bug prices.
You cant sell like that to the general public.
Its illegal under the sales of goods act.
there is no such thing as "sold as seen" from the trade.
Disgraceful that its done in the Porsche business.
All this nonsense about "i give people a choice".
Is everybody on here too spineless to see this and say it ?
Moderators musnt delete this post as its not slander but a FACT
If u buy a car from him and it blows up a month later,signing your rights away wont hold up in court.No way
You cant sell like that to the general public.
Its illegal under the sales of goods act.
there is no such thing as "sold as seen" from the trade.
Disgraceful that its done in the Porsche business.
All this nonsense about "i give people a choice".
Is everybody on here too spineless to see this and say it ?
Moderators musnt delete this post as its not slander but a FACT
If u buy a car from him and it blows up a month later,signing your rights away wont hold up in court.No way
Edited by sherman klump on Tuesday 16th January 17:59
mbutchers said:
...OR, he buys the car from me at £40k - gets to meet the owner and vet any potential issues. He also gets to take full advantage of an extended warranty for the next 6months.
He does his own HPI check to avoid any of the other pitfalls...... Job Done...
He does his own HPI check to avoid any of the other pitfalls...... Job Done...
Buying from us we have already vetted the car, otherwise it wouldn`t be here so you`re in with a fighting chance that it`s a good `un. Purchasing privately requires a lot of legwork sorting out the good from the bad. Not sure what you mean by "vet potential issues". If a warranty is in force on a car technically it is voided once a dealer buys a car, I would imagine there are buyers who would fib a little, say they bought it privately, and enjoy the remaining cover. HPI checks are slightly dangerous in that all they do is check the number you give them. HPI does not and can not confirm the numbers you give them relate to the car you are looking at, in other words HPI will not stop you buying a ringer. Worse still it may actually help you to buy one.
I`m not criticising you at all, simply saying that you did well to get the price you did for the car. Don`t tell me you`re feeling guilty for asking the bloke £40k! He has saved money on the price from a main dealer, I don`t think he`s saved money on what he could have purchased through the specialist network - I`m not saying that`s the case all the time, just in this instance.
Henry
mbutchers said:
how often have you seen a 3yr old Warranted Porsche with FPSH as a ringer....
Saw an 8 month old one a while back. The newer the car the easier to ring because the buyer is more off guard and the car has more value so worth doing the job properly. The hard part is finding some donor details that aren`t on the strap (haven`t got finance on them). Didn`t Kevin say all his cars were bought and paid for up front
Actually another thing to watch out for when selling a car, someone sees all the numbers on your car, mot certificate, etc, etc & rings something to match. You`re not out of pocket but it`s a shit load of agro sorting it out and calming your buyer who is shitting himself convinced you`ve done some wrong.
Henry
sherman klump said:
Its illegal what 911 virgin do,selling cars to unsuspecting mugs at millenium bug prices.
You cant sell like that to the general public.
Its illegal under the sales of goods act.
there is no such thing as "sold as seen" from the trade.
Disgraceful that its done in the Porsche business.
All this nonsense about "i give people a choice".
Is everybody on here too spineless to see this and say it ?
Moderators musnt delete this post as its not slander but a FACT
If u buy a car from him and it blows up a month later,signing your rights away wont hold up in court.No way
You cant sell like that to the general public.
Its illegal under the sales of goods act.
there is no such thing as "sold as seen" from the trade.
Disgraceful that its done in the Porsche business.
All this nonsense about "i give people a choice".
Is everybody on here too spineless to see this and say it ?
Moderators musnt delete this post as its not slander but a FACT
If u buy a car from him and it blows up a month later,signing your rights away wont hold up in court.No way
Edited by sherman klump on Tuesday 16th January 17:59
Now I'm wondering if Henry is drafting a witty riposte to this one, or trying to ingore it?
sherman klump said:
Its illegal what 911 virgin do,selling cars to unsuspecting mugs at millenium bug prices.
You cant sell like that to the general public.
Its illegal under the sales of goods act.
there is no such thing as "sold as seen" from the trade.
Disgraceful that its done in the Porsche business.
All this nonsense about "i give people a choice".
Is everybody on here too spineless to see this and say it ?
Moderators musnt delete this post as its not slander but a FACT
If u buy a car from him and it blows up a month later,signing your rights away wont hold up in court.No way
You cant sell like that to the general public.
Its illegal under the sales of goods act.
there is no such thing as "sold as seen" from the trade.
Disgraceful that its done in the Porsche business.
All this nonsense about "i give people a choice".
Is everybody on here too spineless to see this and say it ?
Moderators musnt delete this post as its not slander but a FACT
If u buy a car from him and it blows up a month later,signing your rights away wont hold up in court.No way
Edited by sherman klump on Tuesday 16th January 17:59
i would imagine henry would wish to respond to this one. i would be most surprised if the situation is as you describe - he seems to play most things with a straight bat. Not being a legal eagle however, i have always wondered how the following statements can be reconciled:
"the pink price is for the car exactly as it stands, no guarantee, no pre-sales service, nothing. You are guaranteed clean title to the car in terms of ownership but that is it. We make no exceptions. If the engine blows up on the way home then we will advise you on the best way to go but not dip into our pocket to effect a repair."
followed by
"The millennium bug price is not intended to affect your statutory rights as a consumer."
If purchasing from a dealer confers statutory rights (of redress?) then how can this tally with the opening sentence?
No axe to grind - just curious
sherman klump said:
Henry
I see you havent responded to what i said half an hour ago.
You reply to everything else within 30 seconds of people posting.
Planning an answer or got no way out of that one ?
I see you havent responded to what i said half an hour ago.
You reply to everything else within 30 seconds of people posting.
Planning an answer or got no way out of that one ?
I`m sorry for the delay Paul. You must appreciate I run a business.
I`m not sure if you fully understand our terms of business. We don`t just say our cars are sold as seen, that would, as you rightly say, illegal. What we actually do is say if you want to buy a car, fully prepared and properly guaranteed by the people who sold it to you (rather than outsource the guarantee to a third party), then we are happy to do that and many of our car sell that way. We have 2 other methods by which a car can be sold, we either service the car and the buyer keep the balance of the money themselves to attend to any faults that occur, or we sell a car as it stands. This isn`t for everyone and we make people fully aware of the limitations, but it allows somene to purchase for similar money to a private purchase but with a bit more hand holding, protection and they are buying exactly the same car that we are happy to prep / sell as a retail sale.
As I have already posted whilst we could see no moral problem with this we did involve the trading standards who confirmed we are in the clear, and who as mentioned previously were extremely complimentary towards our attitude and methods of self policing. We are not seeking to disadvantage cutomers, quite the opposite - I was unhappy with the may most garages prepared their cars prior to sale, services that were little more than a top up with cheap oil and wanted to distance myself from that. Working the way we do people have choices. As a saftey net if someone`s engine blows up 3 weeks after buying a car we will honour that repair ourselves asking only that they pay the difference to what was the retail price regardless of the cost of the repair. (this was already pointed out in a previous post).
It isn`t for all garages as it does require self policing and you have to remember you are doing it for the customer`s benefit and approach it as such.
You have recently joined pistonheads and I hope you enjoy many years of posting but would suggest possibly reading threads fully before jumping in guns blazing, (most of the above was explained earlied in the thread). Or are you suggesting an optician from Cambbridge has a more thorough understanding of trade law than a trading standards officer from the office of fair trading !
On a final point we recently had an unsolicited letter published in the daily telegraph from a customer complimenting us on our method of trading and specifically our 3 tier pricing structure.
Henry
Edited by Henry-F on Tuesday 16th January 18:47
Henry
Yeah right !
Your bug prices are as close to private sale prices as i am close to marrying Gwenyth Paltrow.
Your bug prices are actually the same as some other dealers retail prices.
£2000 for you to put cars right and give a 3 month warranty is preposterous !
We legally get 3 months anyway.
So you charge £2000 to put right the defects that you should be putting right anyway as a retailer !
So that implies basically as a rule you sell cars that need £2000 of work.
And i dont believe trading standards approved what you do .
Got any proof of it?
What do you think Paracetamol ?
You are a fan of Henry's practices !
Yeah right !
Your bug prices are as close to private sale prices as i am close to marrying Gwenyth Paltrow.
Your bug prices are actually the same as some other dealers retail prices.
£2000 for you to put cars right and give a 3 month warranty is preposterous !
We legally get 3 months anyway.
So you charge £2000 to put right the defects that you should be putting right anyway as a retailer !
So that implies basically as a rule you sell cars that need £2000 of work.
And i dont believe trading standards approved what you do .
Got any proof of it?
What do you think Paracetamol ?
You are a fan of Henry's practices !
"The millennium bug price is not intended to affect your statutory rights as a consumer."
If purchasing from a dealer confers statutory rights (of redress?) then how can this tally with the opening sentence?
Well simple,it doesnt tally with the opening sentence!
To say that
"the pink price is for the car exactly as it stands, no guarantee, no pre-sales service, nothing. You are guaranteed clean title to the car in terms of ownership but that is it. We make no exceptions. If the engine blows up on the way home then we will advise you on the best way to go but not dip into our pocket to effect a repair."
Does exactly what he says it doesnt,which is to try to waive your statutory rights.
If purchasing from a dealer confers statutory rights (of redress?) then how can this tally with the opening sentence?
Well simple,it doesnt tally with the opening sentence!
To say that
"the pink price is for the car exactly as it stands, no guarantee, no pre-sales service, nothing. You are guaranteed clean title to the car in terms of ownership but that is it. We make no exceptions. If the engine blows up on the way home then we will advise you on the best way to go but not dip into our pocket to effect a repair."
Does exactly what he says it doesnt,which is to try to waive your statutory rights.
sherman klump said:
Henry
Yeah right !
Your bug prices are as close to private sale prices as i am close to marrying Gwenyth Paltrow.
Your bug prices are actually the same as some other dealers retail prices.
£2000 for you to put cars right and give a 3 month warranty is preposterous !
We legally get 3 months anyway.
So you charge £2000 to put right the defects that you should be putting right anyway as a retailer !
So that implies basically as a rule you sell cars that need £2000 of work.
And i dont believe trading standards approved what you do .
Got any proof of it?
What do you think Paracetamol ?
You are a fan of Henry's practices !
Yeah right !
Your bug prices are as close to private sale prices as i am close to marrying Gwenyth Paltrow.
Your bug prices are actually the same as some other dealers retail prices.
£2000 for you to put cars right and give a 3 month warranty is preposterous !
We legally get 3 months anyway.
So you charge £2000 to put right the defects that you should be putting right anyway as a retailer !
So that implies basically as a rule you sell cars that need £2000 of work.
And i dont believe trading standards approved what you do .
Got any proof of it?
What do you think Paracetamol ?
You are a fan of Henry's practices !
The level to which you have to prepare a car for it to be "legal" is actually surprisingly low. When we send a car away for a service we act on the additional jobs picked up by the people doing the work, not just to get it through an Mot but to try and pre-empt any faults that may occur in the future. I would guess most services come in somewhere between £800 and £1600. Some exceed the £2,000 and of course we simply pay the bill. We very rarely pay £400 for a service.
As to our prices being equal to private sale prices I think our pink price actually commands a premium over a private sale price because of the protection afforded and expertise used in buying our cars. It saves someone scouring the country looking at individual cars. That said in an ideal world I would like them to be equal. In the instance of the car that started off this thread (have you read the full thread?) then I genuinely believe our pink price would have been exactly the same as the price achieved by the seller (and actually £1,000 cheaper than his initial asking price!).
As the cars get older it is harder to judge prices as the cars vary so much in condition. I would hope our cars are some of the better examples on the market and so can not be compared to the lowest priced cars on the market. As for your marrying Gwenyth Paltrow it doesn`t surprise me she spurned your affections.
With regards to the trading standards visit it surprises me, given your in depth knowledge of the subject, that you are not aware they issue a duplicate A4 sheet with notes of the meeting and any recommendations they make to you as they leave.
Henry
sherman klump, what do you do for a living then??? Never have a single customer complaint??
I met Henry a long time ago when he was first setting up (sure he doesn't even remember) and I've bought a LOT of cars over the years and have good bad and indifferent experience of dealers. The one memory I have of talking to him (and not buy the Carrera 3.2 he had) was his honesty about the car.
You talk about the sale of goods act, be careful how you apply this to used cars. Cars by their nature wear out and break down and therefore it's unusual for it to be held up unless you can PROVE the dealer would have known about the problem prior to sale. Basically you are mainly down to good will, yes sometimes a big fight can help but not always.
Henry is very clear about what he's offering and I assume he still is as honest when I meet him, shock his hand and talked about the cars. If you are going to have a public spat at him, I think you should meet him first and talk face to face, unless you have some personal experience with him you'd rather share?
I'm not here to slap dealers on the back, but knowing several as friends now after spending silly amounts of money and understanding the issues they face running a business it's not as simple as people think, or nearly as profitable. I thought about investing in a garage until I saw the books and that garage is now seen as being very successful!
Now I for one am grateful to have people like Henry on PH, if people show up and just make 'statements' like yours they may well give up on the whole thing and we as a community would be worse off. An example of this is Henry helped me out with trade and retail prices for 996 GT3 RS's when I bought mine recently, he didn't have a car, no vested interest, but it helped me out with the deal on the final car I bought.
Let's not force them off the site!
edited for crap spelling!
I met Henry a long time ago when he was first setting up (sure he doesn't even remember) and I've bought a LOT of cars over the years and have good bad and indifferent experience of dealers. The one memory I have of talking to him (and not buy the Carrera 3.2 he had) was his honesty about the car.
You talk about the sale of goods act, be careful how you apply this to used cars. Cars by their nature wear out and break down and therefore it's unusual for it to be held up unless you can PROVE the dealer would have known about the problem prior to sale. Basically you are mainly down to good will, yes sometimes a big fight can help but not always.
Henry is very clear about what he's offering and I assume he still is as honest when I meet him, shock his hand and talked about the cars. If you are going to have a public spat at him, I think you should meet him first and talk face to face, unless you have some personal experience with him you'd rather share?
I'm not here to slap dealers on the back, but knowing several as friends now after spending silly amounts of money and understanding the issues they face running a business it's not as simple as people think, or nearly as profitable. I thought about investing in a garage until I saw the books and that garage is now seen as being very successful!
Now I for one am grateful to have people like Henry on PH, if people show up and just make 'statements' like yours they may well give up on the whole thing and we as a community would be worse off. An example of this is Henry helped me out with trade and retail prices for 996 GT3 RS's when I bought mine recently, he didn't have a car, no vested interest, but it helped me out with the deal on the final car I bought.
Let's not force them off the site!
edited for crap spelling!
Edited by speedyellow on Tuesday 16th January 19:22
POORCARDEALER said:
So you are the god of selling cars. Well done!!!
Well, it certainly looks like it then.... POORCARDEALER said:
Still no legal comebacks in the event of the car been a ringer, 3 cars welded together, etc etc..........
What precisely does 'etc etc....' mean, is it your way of adding to the scaremongering when you have no other real points?
The whole point of this original post was to hi-lite to people that 'private sales' cannot only be possible but also have good outcomes for the private individual. Especially for people like myself and other posters on here, who lavish alot of money and time on their cars, and can see a better return for their efforts.
Comments like yours do dealers no favours at all, and only adds fuel to the fire in my book - I'm sorry that I didn't give my £5k to a dealer, but it's mine, and I want to keep it......
Henry's company is doing what "its says on the tin"
Selling cars to people who are Porsche Virgins-ie not confident to go and buy from a priavate seller. Its a good business model. They buy cars that are not quite as desirable due to colour, age, miles etc BUT in good order and checked out by Henry's team.
The bug price is pretty much retail price and provides sellers with the benefit that the car is not stolen (as would most auction houses and HPI up to £10k). This seems to command around a £3k premium over private sale price.
There is then the option to pay what would be a premium (ie near OPC) prices to get a car prepared to a high standard BUT YOU HAVE THE OPTION NOT TO BUY.
Not sure how I would feel if I bought a 996 for say £38k and for the engine to then fail and to be asked to pay full price to get the engine repaired. I would be seeking my statuatory rights in this scenario.
Selling cars to people who are Porsche Virgins-ie not confident to go and buy from a priavate seller. Its a good business model. They buy cars that are not quite as desirable due to colour, age, miles etc BUT in good order and checked out by Henry's team.
The bug price is pretty much retail price and provides sellers with the benefit that the car is not stolen (as would most auction houses and HPI up to £10k). This seems to command around a £3k premium over private sale price.
There is then the option to pay what would be a premium (ie near OPC) prices to get a car prepared to a high standard BUT YOU HAVE THE OPTION NOT TO BUY.
Not sure how I would feel if I bought a 996 for say £38k and for the engine to then fail and to be asked to pay full price to get the engine repaired. I would be seeking my statuatory rights in this scenario.
mbutchers said:
POORCARDEALER said:
So you are the god of selling cars. Well done!!!
Well, it certainly looks like it then.... POORCARDEALER said:
Still no legal comebacks in the event of the car been a ringer, 3 cars welded together, etc etc..........
What precisely does 'etc etc....' mean, is it your way of adding to the scaremongering when you have no other real points?
The whole point of this original post was to hi-lite to people that 'private sales' cannot only be possible but also have good outcomes for the private individual. Especially for people like myself and other posters on here, who lavish alot of money and time on their cars, and can see a better return for their efforts.
Comments like yours do dealers no favours at all, and only adds fuel to the fire in my book - I'm sorry that I didn't give my £5k to a dealer, but it's mine, and I want to keep it......
Spend your £5K wisely wont you, it clearly means the world to you .........you sold your own car, round of applause, well done. There will be lots of other people within the forum who have tried and failed to sell their pride and joy privately, who have in the end sold to a dealer..........are they fools in your book?
May I ask what you do for a living?
Edited by POORCARDEALER on Tuesday 16th January 19:34
This thread seems to have taken some very negative turns.
M Butchers, well done on sale. I normally buy/sell privately too and no probs in 40 odd transactions. £5k is not to be sniffed at for a few hours of legwork.
Sherman - Your aggressive questioning of Henry is out of order IMO. Ask him a question by all means but try and keep it civil/polite. Myself, like others here, appreciate the fact that he's put his head above the parapet more times than I can remember. FWIW, he normally comes across a lot better than the motley collection of Porsche owners that post 'ere. I'm sure in real life, he's a complete bastard like all the rest though.
M Butchers, well done on sale. I normally buy/sell privately too and no probs in 40 odd transactions. £5k is not to be sniffed at for a few hours of legwork.
Sherman - Your aggressive questioning of Henry is out of order IMO. Ask him a question by all means but try and keep it civil/polite. Myself, like others here, appreciate the fact that he's put his head above the parapet more times than I can remember. FWIW, he normally comes across a lot better than the motley collection of Porsche owners that post 'ere. I'm sure in real life, he's a complete bastard like all the rest though.
I recently purchased a car off Henry I knew he wasn't a charity and was going to earn money out the sale, this didn't bother me. Maybe I could have got the car cheaper in a private sale but to find one of similar quality would have meant trawling round the country week after week wasting my time and other peoples. The extra money was well worth it to me for the time saved and peace of mind.
This thread is starting to get very negative with some rather distasteful accusations being thrown around. Maybe one of the mods should step in.
Don't have a great love of dealers myself but I think Henry deserves credit for posting on here. All he has is his reputation and he puts it on the line every day in a public forum read by hundreds of potential customers.
I met Henry once and despite him taking the piss out of a particular nice green jumper I was wearing and implying that I was a "Banker in a Porsche" (that bit is unfortunately true..) he's probably one of the rare dealers I'd have no problem dealing with.
As you say Henry, keep smiling.
Don't have a great love of dealers myself but I think Henry deserves credit for posting on here. All he has is his reputation and he puts it on the line every day in a public forum read by hundreds of potential customers.
I met Henry once and despite him taking the piss out of a particular nice green jumper I was wearing and implying that I was a "Banker in a Porsche" (that bit is unfortunately true..) he's probably one of the rare dealers I'd have no problem dealing with.
As you say Henry, keep smiling.
To the PHer who sold a car privately ... well done you are in a small gifted group
To the Businesses who sell Porschers, please continue as most potential Porker owners are going to need your services very soon again. (including me ! )
Live long and prosper to all.......
BTW - I hate selling cars privately, mixing with rif raf and answering stupid questions, staying in for no good reason and having to be polite to a stranger on my day off....
Sod that, i bung a couple of grand to a dealer and they can be nice to me
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