991 GT3 Premiere - Tues 05 March @ 09:45 GMT

[SonnyM]

mollytherocker said:

tuffer said:

Currently in Hospital awaiting an operation on my back, wonder if they are interested in a Kidney?

Hey, get to the back of the queue!

Surely your kidney is worth more than the new GT3 road car-only engine that costs 50% less to produce than the Mezger...

[TB993tt]

I would like to hear Mr Fiorinao's (sp) thoughts on this new modified A91 lump, what state will that be in after 90K miles ?

[Old Trout]

Dave Sums said:

So now my opinion is that OPC's really are a waste of time but where else can I get one? No passion whatsoever, just a sales job! Might as well be selling a £15k hatch.

In my experience the very best service I had was from a Citroen dealer - they understood that my money could go elsewhere and paid attention to sales and service. Luckily we have also found a brilliant local family run BMW dealership - country town, traditional values of customer care recognising the potential for repeat business.

My OPC couldn't give a rats arse even though this is my fourth 911.

[Blue62]

So what is the general concensus regarding Porsche reason for not offering a manual? As most GT3's will probably be occasional use, I would've thought manual would be most people's preference.

[Old Trout]

SonnyM said:

Surely your kidney is worth more than the new GT3 road car-only engine that costs 50% less to produce than the Mezger...

Is that true? Recent Mezgers were built on the line as I understand, and as he said in the video it does not really work as you can get quality issues, to which I can fully attest.

[anniesdad]

Looking at the microsite, clubsport package is a no-cost option but doesn't include bucket seats? So that's another £4k on top of your no-cost option. The Carrera GT seats don't fit.

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911-gt3/uk.aspx?w...

"Clubsport package
The Clubsport package – available on request at no extra cost – provides additional protection on the racetrack. The Clubsport package comprises a roll cage bolted to the body behind the front seats, a six-point racing harness in red supplied ready to install on the driver’s side, a ready-to-install fire extinguisher with mounting bracket and preparation for battery master switch. This and the front roll cage elements for race events are available to purchase separately from the Porsche Motorsport department."

[SonnyM]

Old Trout said:

SonnyM said:

Surely your kidney is worth more than the new GT3 road car-only engine that costs 50% less to produce than the Mezger...

Is that true? Recent Mezgers were built on the line as I understand, and as he said in the video it does not really work as you can get quality issues, to which I can fully attest.

The 50% is my guestimate

However I heard the engine change is just as much due to cost as to the limitations of improving the Mezger. No doubt the new 9A1 engine is cheaper to produce - it's a shame the cost saving was not passed on to the customer, but significantly increased instead - obviuosly to help Porsche Group meet their targets.

[supersport]

Old Trout said:

Dave Sums said:

So now my opinion is that OPC's really are a waste of time but where else can I get one? No passion whatsoever, just a sales job! Might as well be selling a £15k hatch.

In my experience the very best service I had was from a Citroen dealer - they understood that my money could go elsewhere and paid attention to sales and service. Luckily we have also found a brilliant local family run BMW dealership - country town, traditional values of customer care recognising the potential for repeat business.

My OPC couldn't give a rats arse even though this is my fourth 911.

I believe I know who you are talking about, and I would say that the new general manager comes across as very genuine and interested, sadly a lot of his staff are as you say.

[pete a]

I think it looks lovely, but I don't think I would let my 997 go for £50-£55 and then pay double that for the new car, I think I will have to make do with my old one for a while;

[SimonOcean]

There is an understandable amount of excitement, which I share. There is no doubt that all the technology (I love the exotic materials and all the stuff done to the engine) is very impressive. The forged wheels are yummy too.

However it is sobering to read about how much extra weight has been added to the 991 GT3 in order to make it a faster car. Faster on the Ring, a circuit and most roads. However adding weight is a slippery slope. And do we want such a car for racing, for bragging rights, or because we enjoy the sensations (or emotions, as the Germans would say) or controlling a fast car at - and beyond - its limits?

I am sure it will be very nice and exceptionally fast, but will it be an awesome drive? So much has changed that the risk is that the character of the previous car has been lost. I'll reserve judgement on the car until I've driven it myself.

Besides weight, the other unpleasant statistic is price. The problem is that a starting price of £105,000 pushes it towards the used price of exotic second hand machinery like the MP4-12C which is damn fast and reportedly a bit anodyne (I've not driven one so I can say for myself). Or looking in the other direction, you can get a very well specified 981 Cayman S with manual gearbox, sports suspension, LSD and cheeky exhaust for c.£55,000 optioned up.

Today's news is exciting and great and all... but it makes me look forward to the 981 Cayman R even more than I already was. Maybe we will still be able to get that with a choice of manual or PDK when it comes out?

Anyways, for those with deposits on 991 GT3s: congratulations and I hope you enjoy them when they arrive in November. It will be a frustrating wait until then!

[Popolou]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not a cynical chap but when i discussed this with my bro, he admitted to seriously liking it. He's a bit of a girls blouse and would never consider a half-caged track car so i've seen first hand the results of the direction Porsche took.

[Popolou]

anniesdad said:

Looking at the microsite, clubsport package is a no-cost option but doesn't include bucket seats? So that's another £4k on top of your no-cost option. The Carrera GT seats don't fit.

http://www.porsche.com/microsite/911-gt3/uk.aspx?w...

"Clubsport package
The Clubsport package – available on request at no extra cost – provides additional protection on the racetrack. The Clubsport package comprises a roll cage bolted to the body behind the front seats, a six-point racing harness in red supplied ready to install on the driver’s side, a ready-to-install fire extinguisher with mounting bracket and preparation for battery master switch. This and the front roll cage elements for race events are available to purchase separately from the Porsche Motorsport department."

The evo interview indicated that they had homologation issues with the buckets due to there being no airbag. Perhaps another is in the pipeline but will not be released until a MkII or the RS even.

[SFO]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

AP stated that 50% of the reason for not using the Mezger was cost ...

[Old Trout]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I am not sure I agree. If you saw the recent program on the factory they had literally run out of space for production. The Cup cars will be built elsewhere and get paid for (a lot). He was not that disingenuous he said it was uneconomical. Mezger engine, less power, £20k more - there would be far fewer buyers.

[SonnyM]

SimonOcean said:

There is an understandable amount of excitement, which I share. There is no doubt that all the technology (I love the exotic materials and all the stuff done to the engine) is very impressive. The forged wheels are yummy too.

However it is sobering to read about how much extra weight has been added to the 991 GT3 in order to make it a faster car. Faster on the Ring, a circuit and most roads. However adding weight is a slippery slope. And do we want such a car for racing, for bragging rights, or because we enjoy the sensations (or emotions, as the Germans would say) or controlling a fast car at - and beyond - its limits?

I am sure it will be very nice and exceptionally fast, but will it be an awesome drive? So much has changed that the risk is that the character of the previous car has been lost. I'll reserve judgement on the car until I've driven it myself.

Besides weight, the other unpleasant statistic is price. The problem is that a starting price of £105,000 pushes it towards the used price of exotic second hand machinery like the MP4-12C which is damn fast and reportedly a bit anodyne (I've not driven one so I can say for myself). Or looking in the other direction, you can get a very well specified 981 Cayman S with manual gearbox, sports suspension, LSD and cheeky exhaust for c.£55,000 optioned up.

Today's news is exciting and great and all... but it makes me look forward to the 981 Cayman R even more than I already was. Maybe we will still be able to get that with a choice of manual or PDK when it comes out?

Anyways, for those with deposits on 991 GT3s: congratulations and I hope you enjoy them when they arrive in November. It will be a frustrating wait until then!

It is a surprise the new GT3 is heavier given most of the new models are lighter than the previous generation.

The DIN weight is circa 1430kg which is almost the same as the 12C with V8 and 625ps. In November, you could probably buy a lightly used 12C for less than a decent specced GT3. And why wouldn't you - given there is nothing that makes the GT3 more special in anyway.

At this price point prospective buyers have a number of options, both new and used. The GT3 is no longer the 'bargain' it used to be.

[Old Trout]

When a reasonably specced 997 Carrera was £90k, a 991 Carrera £95k the around £105k doesn't look that expensive to me.

Just had the email from my OPC - they want a £10k deposit and say there are "relatively few cars available for purchase"

[dazren]

Just spoke with my OPC this morning. £10k deposit seems to be the set rate.

[PorkaFly]

I've recently spent approx 1k miles in a brand new 991S PDK - it is very un-911 like when compared with previous versions, but of course still looks like a (fat) 911. However, I parked it next to a 993 the other evening and the new car's proportions are simply staggering by comparison.

Progress is good though, and I did enjoy my thousand miles in one. It can be a lazy auto cog-swapper one moment and a complete hooligan in SportsPlus etc the next. As a daily driver it would be a great car. Very quiet and relaxed and it even has Isofix in the rear! The 991 is now a GT car with sports car pretentions in my view - and it does this well. I thought it was fast and picked-up well until I got back in my RS6 Avant (V10) daily driver which piles on speed in a hilarious bonkers way...and that's kind of my point with this post...the 911 is no longer a proper sports car.

Having trawled through the press pack last night and watched the Evo vid (Jethro was sweating a lot!) I sense the 991 GT3 will be an epic but easy daily driver, with PDK, and be the sports car the 991 hasn't been to date, but still be a long distance GT car too. This in turn will appeal to a wider market who will only occasionally take in a track day or a few laps, but want GTR perfomance with the right badge. The rest of us "beards" with "proper" RSs will be happy with the 996/997 cars as weekend toys and track machines - as we all probably have something as easy and smooth/comfortable to drive as the new 991 (think dynamics not the price) during the week...maybe not a Porsche, but perhaps good enough.

I personally think the new GT3 is beuatiful - it looks right and those wheels are lovely. And it will be comfortable on the road and a complete beast on the track. It is also a tech-fest and puts Porsche back in the game against GTR and 458s, which it needed to do strategically in this market. As others have said, I also think they will sell loads of these so I doubt there will a limited supply.

However, and this is the crux for most of us I reckon, I love and daydream about driving my RS when I'm at my desk, and it's a sunny day like today. Every drive is an event, the engine, single-mass fly wheel chuntering away, the steering feel, the noise...but I only want this at the weekend or when I'm having fun by myself or on a boys trip - I'm getting older now.

I also love the "old" GT3 because if I lose concentration for just a nano-second on a track it will bite me, but if I get it right (occasionally) it is so rewarding. Every time I drive a GT3 pretender on a track I think "great car"...but after 7 or 8 laps I am bored. I never get bored in a GT3. The last Gen GT3s were softer and had more electronics, but I was glad of that because although I can peddle them quite well I'm no pro, and there in lies the appeal for people like me (I think). I can sit all week letting the gearbox and paddles do all the work and just steer and use my right foot, but I have to strap the RS on and beceome one with it in order for it to reward and delight, and if I drove it with the reduced involvement or concentration I do with my daily driver it would be shambolic as you really have to think when peddling the old GT3 as intended. I take great satisfaction in learning and getting better in my GT3s over the years - and the more I do the more the car flatters and rewards - this will always be important in the post-PDK GT3 era. It's not about the speed or passing everything on track - I'm pretty sure most of us don't see it like this, and I'm sure 991 GT3 man will delight in passing us all at Spa up Radillion. I will smile, move over, and admire it's rear as it goes flashing past, but I'm pretty sure we will all be getting more enjoyment, more fun and will stay engaged longer.

I doubt the new 991 GT3 will ever be able to do this, but I bet it makes a great daily driver - so I would have a "comfort" and ditch the RS6 if I didn't have a family; and then keep and use the 3.8RS purely for weekend and tracks...

The GT3 just went mainstream...

PF

[kingstondc5]

SonnyM said:

It is a surprise the new GT3 is heavier given most of the new models are lighter than the previous generation.

The DIN weight is circa 1430kg which is almost the same as the 12C with V8 and 625ps. In November, you could probably buy a lightly used 12C for less than a decent specced GT3. And why wouldn't you - given there is nothing that makes the GT3 more special in anyway.

At this price point prospective buyers have a number of options, both new and used. The GT3 is no longer the 'bargain' it used to be.

Is that not that same new vs used argument applicable to any car going though?

Have you driven the new GT3 yet to determine that its nothing special?

[Old Trout]

SonnyM said:

In November, you could probably buy a lightly used 12C for less than a decent specced GT3.

I think that is optimistic!