Porsche successfully sued over allowing queue jumping
Discussion
ORD said:
It all boils down to the cars being too cheap. It's a strange kind of market failure.
But it isn't a market failure at all......it is market(ing) genius in fact, and why Porsche are experts at it.The difference between what Porsche charge for a GT car and what they COULD charge is a mere drop in the ocean relative to the publicity and future marketing push generated on 'lesser' more profitable models. A perfect strategy, especially having regard to their effective 'losses' by undercharging for these halo models are capped by 'limited run' cars.
av185 said:
ORD said:
It all boils down to the cars being too cheap. It's a strange kind of market failure.
But it isn't a market failure at all......it is market(ing) genius in fact, and why Porsche are experts at it.The difference between what Porsche charge for a GT car and what they COULD charge is a mere drop in the ocean relative to the publicity and future marketing push generated on 'lesser' more profitable models. A perfect strategy, especially having regard to their effective 'losses' by undercharging for these halo models are capped by 'limited run' cars.
AndyCGTS said:
Oh Colchester! I'm not surprised at all! I had fun and games when buying my GTS with them as they are my local dealer, in the end I bought mine from Bournemonth who have been excellent to deal with.
I've been told by them in order to be considered for a GT3 (991.2) they require a 10K deposit from me but that still wont guarantee me the car.
That is pretty outrageous. They shouldn't be taking deposits for cars that haven't been announced. I've been told by them in order to be considered for a GT3 (991.2) they require a 10K deposit from me but that still wont guarantee me the car.
JLZ78 said:
That is pretty outrageous. They shouldn't be taking deposits for cars that haven't been announced.
Not really a deposit as much of an 'expression of interest'.For the reasons outlined above, it makes sense to have some genuine commitment on behalf of the potential customer to stop people having 'letters of intent' with numerous dealers.
Charles22 said:
My local OPC. 'Yep we took 18 X £10k deposits for the GT4'.
Me 'How many you getting'.
OPC 'Max of 7'.
Don't know about you but that's fraud/deception where I come from?
C.
Perhaps you need to review the definition of fraud, and what is actually promised when an OP takes a 'deposit' for a car not actually available to order!Me 'How many you getting'.
OPC 'Max of 7'.
Don't know about you but that's fraud/deception where I come from?
C.
POORCARDEALER said:
These "expression of interest" deposits are usually years in advance...the dealership will have no idea what their allocation will be, or even if they get any at all.
Correct.. I'v been in to a dealership to place an order with a deposit on a vehicle and the salesman didn't even know a new model was coming out..? Charles22 said:
My local OPC. 'Yep we took 18 X £10k deposits for the GT4'.
Me 'How many you getting'.
OPC 'Max of 7'.
Don't know about you but that's fraud/deception where I come from?
C.
Eh?Me 'How many you getting'.
OPC 'Max of 7'.
Don't know about you but that's fraud/deception where I come from?
C.
So by your defintion of fraud/deception, presumably a depositor who places some money to secure an allocation but subsequently and prior to 'lockdown' has a change of heart about the car is guilty of fraud/deception as the contract was not fulfilled.
av185 said:
Charles22 said:
My local OPC. 'Yep we took 18 X £10k deposits for the GT4'.
Me 'How many you getting'.
OPC 'Max of 7'.
Don't know about you but that's fraud/deception where I come from?
C.
Eh?Me 'How many you getting'.
OPC 'Max of 7'.
Don't know about you but that's fraud/deception where I come from?
C.
So by your defintion of fraud/deception, presumably a depositor who places some money to secure an allocation but subsequently and prior to 'lockdown' has a change of heart about the car is guilty of fraud/deception as the contract was not fulfilled.
It would not surprise me if people have been buying cars just to try and get on the GT cars short-list because they were indicated to by dealer and were let down. While not fraudulent in the classic sense, this is also a bit dodgy and could fall under sharp practice.
The way I see it is in the absence of any 'guarantees' concerning the provision of the car either verbally, e mail, writing or similar, up until the freeze date or lockdown date when technically the car goes into build, either party whether it be the depositor or dealer is perfectly within their rights to cancel (i.e. from the dealers point of view sell someone else the allocation) and any deposit will under normal circumstances be refunded. After the freeze or lockdown date, the dealer is perfectly within their rights to keep the deposit should they so wish if the depositor cancels.
sidicks said:
mollytherocker said:
I wonder how much is sitting in the Porsche Bank with all these £10k 'expressions of interest'?
Must be a pretty tidy sum.
Must be getting a massive amount of interest given overnight cash rates...Must be a pretty tidy sum.
Nice, but chicken feed in the scheme of things I would suggest.
It just doesn't sit well any OPC taking many more deposits for any car knowing full well that they will not get the allocation of cars to satisfy the depositors. Chester fell foul of this and had many complaints/threats of legal action, so much so that they no longer take cash deposits for cars they can't supply. It's now letters of intent.
OK, if not criminal deception then morally wrong?
However, they are car salesmen at the end of the day.
C.
OK, if not criminal deception then morally wrong?
However, they are car salesmen at the end of the day.
C.
Charles22 said:
no longer take cash deposits for cars they can't supply. It's now letters of intent.
C.
As already mentioned the majority of UK OPCs scrapped the 'meaningless' loi system well before the final outcome of this case. Allocation is by and large now down to other 'factors' already covered e.g. previous buying history or likelihood of future servicing/more profitable future car orders etc etc.C.
JLZ78 said:
That is pretty outrageous. They shouldn't be taking deposits for cars that haven't been announced.
I have no problems leaving a small deposit like 3 - 5K to show that I am willing to commit but not 10K for a car that's not even been released. However, id leave the full deposit "IF" i knew I was guaranteed but its not.Charles22 said:
It just doesn't sit well any OPC taking many more deposits for any car knowing full well that they will not get the allocation of cars to satisfy the depositors. Chester fell foul of this and had many complaints/threats of legal action, so much so that they no longer take cash deposits for cars they can't supply. It's now letters of intent.
OK, if not criminal deception then morally wrong?
However, they are car salesmen at the end of the day.
C.
That's all well and good but a "letter of intent" is not a contract and therefore not worth the paper its written on... so the OP would not have had a case to successfully sue the OPC as he did.... So pointless really...!OK, if not criminal deception then morally wrong?
However, they are car salesmen at the end of the day.
C.
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