944 Valuation...
Discussion
...as a buyer.
It's an 1990G S2, 150k, just the one elderly owner. FSH - first with OPC Norwich then autowerke Norwich. All invoices from new apparently. Sills just done by OPC Cambridge (lifetime body warranty apparently?) so apparently the bodywork is mint. Dash looks badly cracked.
Thoughts?
It's an 1990G S2, 150k, just the one elderly owner. FSH - first with OPC Norwich then autowerke Norwich. All invoices from new apparently. Sills just done by OPC Cambridge (lifetime body warranty apparently?) so apparently the bodywork is mint. Dash looks badly cracked.
Thoughts?
Blue dashes do crack worse than black for some reason. Flock it!
Assuming the history is that comprehensive it could well be worth a fair amount. Usual things apply, so have the following been done, or they will be likely to need doing now or soon:
Head gasket
Brake calipers
Brake and fuel lines
Suspension overhaul
Clutch
Cambelt is every four years max, but look for a water pump and timing chain change as well.
If at least some of these are recent, then that's good; you can spend a grand on each of the above quite easily. The sills must be worth a couple of grand as well if they were done well, and the rest of the bodywork is good. As Blade says, you need a lot more info to value it but it could be over the £5K mark easily.
It's more about what it's worth to you. If your heart's set on an S2 and this one is right, then it's worth paying more for. I'd always pay a couple of grand more for the right car with most of the above work done.
Assuming the history is that comprehensive it could well be worth a fair amount. Usual things apply, so have the following been done, or they will be likely to need doing now or soon:
Head gasket
Brake calipers
Brake and fuel lines
Suspension overhaul
Clutch
Cambelt is every four years max, but look for a water pump and timing chain change as well.
If at least some of these are recent, then that's good; you can spend a grand on each of the above quite easily. The sills must be worth a couple of grand as well if they were done well, and the rest of the bodywork is good. As Blade says, you need a lot more info to value it but it could be over the £5K mark easily.
It's more about what it's worth to you. If your heart's set on an S2 and this one is right, then it's worth paying more for. I'd always pay a couple of grand more for the right car with most of the above work done.
pcn1 said:
Its worth what your prepared to pay I guess.
Me, id give 2.5K tops for a S2 with that miles if the service history was decent enough.
Theres still lower mile cars with no rust problems out there for not much more.
Yes but how long have you been looking for a car for Me, id give 2.5K tops for a S2 with that miles if the service history was decent enough.
Theres still lower mile cars with no rust problems out there for not much more.
. Much lower and I'd think about it for a 3.0 turbo conversion 
.Edited by blade7 on Thursday 26th April 14:07
Just spoke to seller, lovely old retired northern chap (if a little cranky responding to my questions!) 
Car is clearly his P+J having been owned from new and treated like a baby. Brakes done all round (calipers, disks etc) year before last (£2500 spent in all apparently), and only needed a bush to get through this years MOT. Car is on its 3rd clutch but unsure as to when done. Everything Porsche have said needed done has been done, never a quibble.
Nice old chap in his 70s (wife is 70) but wasn't the type of conversation to have on the phone to ask him to wade through the inch and a half history file he has to ask when the belts were last done...
Seems a good 'un and you don't often get the opportunity to buy one owner cars of this vintage.
Car is clearly his P+J having been owned from new and treated like a baby. Brakes done all round (calipers, disks etc) year before last (£2500 spent in all apparently), and only needed a bush to get through this years MOT. Car is on its 3rd clutch but unsure as to when done. Everything Porsche have said needed done has been done, never a quibble.
Nice old chap in his 70s (wife is 70) but wasn't the type of conversation to have on the phone to ask him to wade through the inch and a half history file he has to ask when the belts were last done...
Seems a good 'un and you don't often get the opportunity to buy one owner cars of this vintage.
I'd bite his hand off for £3.5k myself. Even with just the sills, clutch and brake overhaul that's the value of the car and then some.
Assume that the belts need doing, worst case £1K for it's first service. I would check for a timing chain change though, and if no evidence in 150K miles I'd probably look at the cams before committing.
Assume that the belts need doing, worst case £1K for it's first service. I would check for a timing chain change though, and if no evidence in 150K miles I'd probably look at the cams before committing.
I'm with Paul's last post. That's nothing for a good one, if the interiors OK!
I wouldn't sell my S2 at the prices some are talking. Wait till you drive it to appreciate the value for money.
On the cosmetic side, clocks and air con if fitted frequently not working and look for wear and tear on the seat sides. Good luck.
I wouldn't sell my S2 at the prices some are talking. Wait till you drive it to appreciate the value for money.
On the cosmetic side, clocks and air con if fitted frequently not working and look for wear and tear on the seat sides. Good luck.
So I asked some questions (in bold)
I like it... but I just need to do some sums.
Sellers response said:
Things that do not work:
Clock in cabin
Offside mirror heater - the motors work etc, but heated mirror does not work
My father is not sure about the adjustment - electrical - under the drivers seat - he thinks it may have come adrift - but as they do not adjust it.....
MOT
date is 24/4/2012
Brakes - disks, pads, calipers
Replaced 4/2/2010 front and rear callipers, front disks new pads front and rear, new handbrake shoes and accompanying electrics for brakes replaced/serviced etc. Rear Disks changed 12/2/2004
ABS sensor replaced 28/5/2009
Rear Brake caliper pipes and front calliper pipes 07/02/2008
Handbrake cable 11/2/2005
Clutch
Replaced 11/8/2206 - mileage was 127 000 at that time
Suspension components - bushes, arms, springs, shocks? (it is 22!)
No noted problems - all with in normal specification on last service/MOT this april
rear bearings 31/10/2005
front bearings 11/02/2005
Belts, tensioners last done when
Power steering belt 7/2/2012
Cam Belt adjusted and balanced 7/2/2012 Changed as per service regime - on one occasion the service showed that there was a nick in the belt - it was changed....
Last cam belt change was 21/9/2009 - mileage was 145 900
Starter Motor replaced 28/10/2005
(Matt at autoworke does the checks and services as standard every service.... i cannot find any record of any pumps failing or being replaced bar what i have said)
Water pump?
never had a problem - never been replaced
Tyres - condition/make
Pirelli pzero n3 - have done 8000 miles since fitting
Other
Immobiliser was fitted by porsche in 1997 - the alarm was fitted at the factory but immobiliser was done later - to help with insurance
car heater/aircon motor for heater valve 22/4/2008
Windscreen washer pump 20/5/2011
New Battery 28/4/2010
tailgate lockpins 25/6/2007
So... to be very good it's probably looking at a suspension refresh, plus I'm unsure as to where we are with belts if they are being changed exactly as per service regime. Also... still on its original water pump(!)Clock in cabin
Offside mirror heater - the motors work etc, but heated mirror does not work
My father is not sure about the adjustment - electrical - under the drivers seat - he thinks it may have come adrift - but as they do not adjust it.....
MOT
date is 24/4/2012
Brakes - disks, pads, calipers
Replaced 4/2/2010 front and rear callipers, front disks new pads front and rear, new handbrake shoes and accompanying electrics for brakes replaced/serviced etc. Rear Disks changed 12/2/2004
ABS sensor replaced 28/5/2009
Rear Brake caliper pipes and front calliper pipes 07/02/2008
Handbrake cable 11/2/2005
Clutch
Replaced 11/8/2206 - mileage was 127 000 at that time
Suspension components - bushes, arms, springs, shocks? (it is 22!)
No noted problems - all with in normal specification on last service/MOT this april
rear bearings 31/10/2005
front bearings 11/02/2005
Belts, tensioners last done when
Power steering belt 7/2/2012
Cam Belt adjusted and balanced 7/2/2012 Changed as per service regime - on one occasion the service showed that there was a nick in the belt - it was changed....
Last cam belt change was 21/9/2009 - mileage was 145 900
Starter Motor replaced 28/10/2005
(Matt at autoworke does the checks and services as standard every service.... i cannot find any record of any pumps failing or being replaced bar what i have said)
Water pump?
never had a problem - never been replaced
Tyres - condition/make
Pirelli pzero n3 - have done 8000 miles since fitting
Other
Immobiliser was fitted by porsche in 1997 - the alarm was fitted at the factory but immobiliser was done later - to help with insurance
car heater/aircon motor for heater valve 22/4/2008
Windscreen washer pump 20/5/2011
New Battery 28/4/2010
tailgate lockpins 25/6/2007
I like it... but I just need to do some sums.
We keep saying you have to buy carefully but it sounds like a straight S2 for not a lot of money, 944's have been talked down for so long people expect to pay banger money, they are underated and under valued but prices will firm up eventually.
Edited by blade7 on Monday 30th April 23:36
That's a lot of the boxes ticked, I'd say that car is worth more than most others out there on the info they've supplied. Lots of work over a steady time period, showing it's been well cared-for.
The belt will be due next year, four years maximum IS the service schedule. I'd budget a water pump at the same time, and possibly the timing chain etc. if it's needed. As Ed says, it's a service item; nice to have a brand new one but no car will have every one of the bigger jobs done recently.
Any old car is a risk, but it's a very cheap older Porsche with a lot of money spent by the current owner to your benefit. That's the way we always tell people to buy one!
The belt will be due next year, four years maximum IS the service schedule. I'd budget a water pump at the same time, and possibly the timing chain etc. if it's needed. As Ed says, it's a service item; nice to have a brand new one but no car will have every one of the bigger jobs done recently.
Any old car is a risk, but it's a very cheap older Porsche with a lot of money spent by the current owner to your benefit. That's the way we always tell people to buy one!
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