Discussion
Hi
I am new to the board and having had a search through past posts there seems to be a very strong 964 RS contingent. There also seems to be a bit of scepticism over the asking prices of 911s you see in magazines, particularly Porsche Post.
In the light of this, what would you consider to be sensible prices for 964 RS's, both left & right hand drive?
Many thanks
James
I am new to the board and having had a search through past posts there seems to be a very strong 964 RS contingent. There also seems to be a bit of scepticism over the asking prices of 911s you see in magazines, particularly Porsche Post.
In the light of this, what would you consider to be sensible prices for 964 RS's, both left & right hand drive?
Many thanks
James
Yeah, as Scottster says, you're looking at £25-30K for a good one these days, and perhaps add another £5K for a RHD RS.
Hermanns & Schmitz Automobile usually carry a good selection of 964RS, their prices are in Euros, but it does give a good indication to what they are going for at the moment (they even have a Guards red 964RS thats only done 4500KM!!)
www.911-rs.de/shoper.html
Hermanns & Schmitz Automobile usually carry a good selection of 964RS, their prices are in Euros, but it does give a good indication to what they are going for at the moment (they even have a Guards red 964RS thats only done 4500KM!!)
www.911-rs.de/shoper.html
scottster, why not a RHD one? Just the extra cost?
Also, are they really appreciating, or is this a myth. I find it hard to believe that, given the state of the economy, they are appreciating by much. It seems to me that lots of the so-called appreciating 911s appreciate in what owners want for them but not necessarily in what people are willing to pay for them!
Many thanks for the feedback.
James
Also, are they really appreciating, or is this a myth. I find it hard to believe that, given the state of the economy, they are appreciating by much. It seems to me that lots of the so-called appreciating 911s appreciate in what owners want for them but not necessarily in what people are willing to pay for them!
Many thanks for the feedback.
James
They are appreciating - mine has - but I think that's partly down to the fact I bought when the pound was strong and the Euro weak. Being mostly LHD and the specialists mostly German, then we're tied in to what the Germans are prepared to pay for one.
Now, what with crashes and stuff reducing the available stock, and what with the fact there really isn't a car on sale now or since that combines ease of ownership, performance, trackability, practicality, experience, etc, in such a package, then they're desired even more by the cognoscenti. Which also helps push the price up a bit.
Now, what with crashes and stuff reducing the available stock, and what with the fact there really isn't a car on sale now or since that combines ease of ownership, performance, trackability, practicality, experience, etc, in such a package, then they're desired even more by the cognoscenti. Which also helps push the price up a bit.
Oh, and RHD is not worth the extra cost IMHO. They command a stupid price premium and aren't as user-friendly inside - offset pedal positions, little space for your clutch foot, steering offset a bit, etc.
Besides which, how often are you going to leave it in an NCP car park that you need a ticket for? Overtaking in LHD isn't much of an issue with a car like the RS, being so powerful, so why spend the money on RHD?
Besides which, how often are you going to leave it in an NCP car park that you need a ticket for? Overtaking in LHD isn't much of an issue with a car like the RS, being so powerful, so why spend the money on RHD?
They are indeed, maybe appreciating is a little extreme, but you certainly won't lose anything on one. A couple of years ago when I first looked you could get one in Germany for about £18-20k but not anymore. In fact you'll be lucky to find one there any cheaper than here.
No big reason not to get a RHD one other than the cost and some people think they are slightly 'less pure' - ie: power steering etc. For the RHD price you could get a LHD 993RS with all the benefits of that. That said, some people will tell you they'd rather have the 964. But then again, there's people out there that would rather have a Mondeo V6 so you can't accomodate for everyone.
No big reason not to get a RHD one other than the cost and some people think they are slightly 'less pure' - ie: power steering etc. For the RHD price you could get a LHD 993RS with all the benefits of that. That said, some people will tell you they'd rather have the 964. But then again, there's people out there that would rather have a Mondeo V6 so you can't accomodate for everyone.
Some good posts here from most of the regulars, particularly Scottster and peter, so not a lot to add.
Highest price I have seen one up for recently was 44k for v low miles RHD one! I'd recommend either a LHD 993RS I saw at 33k or LHD 964RS for approx 25k.
These cars will not depreciate (and *may* even appreciate) simply because Porsche don't make anything like it anymore. If you have come to the conclusion that a Porsche is the only sensible supercar because of reliability, build quality, parts supply, number of specialists etc. then you will want your ultimate Porsche. For many (but not for all), this is an RS or other lightweight (993GT3). Some of the more extreme Porschephiles also like older models which have a ton of character, or something modern with hidden depths (Don's Boxster S, Daz's 996tt, GT3, 996GT2 etc.). The base models may not excite them in the same way.
If something is sought after, and in short supply, as they were a limited run, then the law of supply and demand dictate that prices will be high.
As for RHD, I wouldn't bother. They came with PAS and underseal and so aren't *quite* as extreme as the LHD examples. You'll pay a massive premium (more like 10k!) and you won't be going the whole hog.
Get a 993RS if budget less than 40k, 964RS if less than 30k.
Cheers
Domster
Highest price I have seen one up for recently was 44k for v low miles RHD one! I'd recommend either a LHD 993RS I saw at 33k or LHD 964RS for approx 25k.
These cars will not depreciate (and *may* even appreciate) simply because Porsche don't make anything like it anymore. If you have come to the conclusion that a Porsche is the only sensible supercar because of reliability, build quality, parts supply, number of specialists etc. then you will want your ultimate Porsche. For many (but not for all), this is an RS or other lightweight (993GT3). Some of the more extreme Porschephiles also like older models which have a ton of character, or something modern with hidden depths (Don's Boxster S, Daz's 996tt, GT3, 996GT2 etc.). The base models may not excite them in the same way.
If something is sought after, and in short supply, as they were a limited run, then the law of supply and demand dictate that prices will be high.
As for RHD, I wouldn't bother. They came with PAS and underseal and so aren't *quite* as extreme as the LHD examples. You'll pay a massive premium (more like 10k!) and you won't be going the whole hog.
Get a 993RS if budget less than 40k, 964RS if less than 30k.
Cheers
Domster
Apart from the power steering, the LHD also has a better weight distribution from left to right when passengerless because the oil system counterbalances the driver's weight (and even Domster's wallet!).
I can also say that after driving rhd 911's for 14 years before getting into my LHD 993 RSR, there is something about the LHD that just feels "right". Maybe its the seating position, pedal layout or the fact that you change gear with your right hand, I don't know, but I can actually say that given the choice of two identical RS's of opposite steering, I would still pick a LHD even if the price was the same.
Finally, there is simply more choice of LHD cars available, and even at inflated German prices they still make more sense in terms of price/performance than any other Porsche I know, especially when you add into the equation some relatively simple tuning after which they will give a GT3 a seriously hard time. Not as sophisticated, a lot raw, but one hell of a car.
Bugger it, I'll have to swap with Adrian again, I can feel the need for a fix coming on.
I can also say that after driving rhd 911's for 14 years before getting into my LHD 993 RSR, there is something about the LHD that just feels "right". Maybe its the seating position, pedal layout or the fact that you change gear with your right hand, I don't know, but I can actually say that given the choice of two identical RS's of opposite steering, I would still pick a LHD even if the price was the same.
Finally, there is simply more choice of LHD cars available, and even at inflated German prices they still make more sense in terms of price/performance than any other Porsche I know, especially when you add into the equation some relatively simple tuning after which they will give a GT3 a seriously hard time. Not as sophisticated, a lot raw, but one hell of a car.
Bugger it, I'll have to swap with Adrian again, I can feel the need for a fix coming on.
BillyB said: You guys are making a hell of a case for a LHD 964 RS. It is good to hear.
Cheers, James
NO NO NO NO ignore them all and any of my previous posts where I state the 964RS is one of my all time fave Porkers.
If you buy one people will point and laugh at you as you drive it, your parents will disown you and you will start to find Margret Thatcher extremily arousing. Oh and this applys to '73 RS's and 993RS's too.
This statement has nothing at all to do with the fact that I am so hacked off with the way all RS prices are rising, that dont think I will never be able to afford to have one in my garage.
So when my rumours spread and the prices drop like shares in Enron, I most certainly will not be buying all the RS's that I can get my hands on for my own personal RS hareem oh no no no no I certainly wouldnt do that...............
Not much more I can add to the benefits of a LHD 964RS compared to a RHD.
However, around last New Year I remember looking in the classifieds of 911 & Porsche World and there was a RHD drive Maritime Blue 964RS. One owner, full history, low mileage (I think around 10K), car was based in Jersey but the owner would deliver to anywhere in Europe. Asking price only 30K! (How many RHD Maritime Blue RS's are in existence?) A mate of mine seriously considered this car (although he stuck with his 993T4). Needless to say, I understand it was sold within days, to a customer of Autofarm.
However, around last New Year I remember looking in the classifieds of 911 & Porsche World and there was a RHD drive Maritime Blue 964RS. One owner, full history, low mileage (I think around 10K), car was based in Jersey but the owner would deliver to anywhere in Europe. Asking price only 30K! (How many RHD Maritime Blue RS's are in existence?) A mate of mine seriously considered this car (although he stuck with his 993T4). Needless to say, I understand it was sold within days, to a customer of Autofarm.
Billy, the points on here are all well made. The most difficult thing you're going to find is uncovering a car that hasn't been trashed or thrashed to within an inch of its life on a track day or worse. When I bought my car in 1998 I had a choice of a dozen or so in the UK and Germany (& I bought my car direct form an OPC in Dortmund). Lots of rubbish over here as dealers bought the cheapest they could in Germany and sold them over here, warts n all. I've seen a lot of dogs in the UK and only recently caught up with a Guards Red car (not Dom's) that I briefly considered way back in 1998 at sub £18k.
I'm not really sure how many good RSs there are left in Germany - I've heard that cars for sale in Germany have been brouht in from France & Italy - where the rules on "Unfallfrei" are nowhere near as tight as they are in Germany.
As for RHD cars, just ask Iguana what's worth more now, an lhd 1973 2.7 RS or a rhd 2.7 RS...and they made more rhd 2.7s than they did rhd 964 RSs. The price differential when I bought my car was nearly 100% - rhd vs lhd - that's narrowed today to nearer 30%, but again, there are some rhd dogs around too (silver touring, midnight blue track thrashed car for instance)......and then there's all the agro about non original parts to think about too.....
Fact: 964 RS is still the most focussed, most practical, most rewarding and IMHO most attractive 911 around at half decent prices, even allowing for the price inflation that certain dealers actively promote (just read the words of a certain lhd car specialist up north)
I'm not really sure how many good RSs there are left in Germany - I've heard that cars for sale in Germany have been brouht in from France & Italy - where the rules on "Unfallfrei" are nowhere near as tight as they are in Germany.
As for RHD cars, just ask Iguana what's worth more now, an lhd 1973 2.7 RS or a rhd 2.7 RS...and they made more rhd 2.7s than they did rhd 964 RSs. The price differential when I bought my car was nearly 100% - rhd vs lhd - that's narrowed today to nearer 30%, but again, there are some rhd dogs around too (silver touring, midnight blue track thrashed car for instance)......and then there's all the agro about non original parts to think about too.....
Fact: 964 RS is still the most focussed, most practical, most rewarding and IMHO most attractive 911 around at half decent prices, even allowing for the price inflation that certain dealers actively promote (just read the words of a certain lhd car specialist up north)
That 964RS up for sale is a very old ad - at least 6 months old, so I'm not sure the car is still for sale. I gathered at the time that they were private classifieds that Don Palmer put up on behalf of his clients, so I doubt it would be an 'instruction' car.
However, it may still have been tracked rotten, but remember that 964RSs are *made to be*. It isn't like taking an M3 on track for lap after lap, then finding your brakes fade and that the gearbox breaks months later (as getcarter will testify). A 964RS was derived from the Cup cars, which had to complete a whole race series.
However, it may still have been tracked rotten, but remember that 964RSs are *made to be*. It isn't like taking an M3 on track for lap after lap, then finding your brakes fade and that the gearbox breaks months later (as getcarter will testify). A 964RS was derived from the Cup cars, which had to complete a whole race series.
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