MK 1 GT3 or BMW M3CSL ?
Discussion
My garage has been empty for too long and thus I've started looking for a "toy"
I've narrowed my choice down to either a BMW M3 CSL or a MK 1 GT3
The chosen car will be for road use only and will be a weekend toy with occasional mid week commuting duties in the summer months.
I have a three series saloon as an everyday car and have concerns over buying the CSL as it maybe "more of the same"
However, everyone who has driven a CSL says it so far removed from a run of the mill 3 series there is no comparison.
My other concern is that when I open the garage door the CSL won't have the
factor.(If I purchase a GT3 it would be Speed Yellow or Zanzibar)
Add to this, the CSL has several well known faults, some of which BMW are resolving and others they don't seem to have any answers to (SMG /clutch faults) and I'm rapidly looking towards the GT3 as my preferred choice.
I've had 964 and 993 RS's over the last few years. I find the 964RS too harsh for B road hooning, and felt that the 993RS though more useable on the road, was not a lot quicker in a straight line than the 964.( Certainly not worth the large premium over the 964 IMO)
I drove a MK1 GT3 roughly three years ago (unfortunately the vendor was not a good passenger.........or could it have been my driving
) either way I didn't get the chance to drive it quickly over some "give and take" twisty roads, and thus drew no solid conclusions from the test drive.
I did notice (from the admittedly brief spell at the wheel) that it felt considerably more remote from "the action" compared with the 964/993. Whilst this may make it more user friendly I place a premium on steering feel.
I notice a lot is written about the GT3s low ground clearance, is this a real problem ? I live within reach of some of the best driving roads in the UK, most of which are smooth but have the occasional viscious crests and humps. Will the GT3 struggle with these like the 964 and to a lesser degree the 993 did or does it's more modern suspension design tend to soak up such tests better. ?
The M3 is quite a bit cheaper to purchase but would need as a mimimum some decent pads and discs to improve the notoriously poor brakes (or better still some nice 6 pot APs
)
Has anyone on here owned (or had experience of driving) both these cars ? If so would the CSL make a better toy to use on the road than the GT3 ?
>> Edited by slippydiff on Tuesday 14th March 00:28
I've narrowed my choice down to either a BMW M3 CSL or a MK 1 GT3
The chosen car will be for road use only and will be a weekend toy with occasional mid week commuting duties in the summer months.
I have a three series saloon as an everyday car and have concerns over buying the CSL as it maybe "more of the same"
However, everyone who has driven a CSL says it so far removed from a run of the mill 3 series there is no comparison.
My other concern is that when I open the garage door the CSL won't have the
factor.(If I purchase a GT3 it would be Speed Yellow or Zanzibar) Add to this, the CSL has several well known faults, some of which BMW are resolving and others they don't seem to have any answers to (SMG /clutch faults) and I'm rapidly looking towards the GT3 as my preferred choice.
I've had 964 and 993 RS's over the last few years. I find the 964RS too harsh for B road hooning, and felt that the 993RS though more useable on the road, was not a lot quicker in a straight line than the 964.( Certainly not worth the large premium over the 964 IMO)
I drove a MK1 GT3 roughly three years ago (unfortunately the vendor was not a good passenger.........or could it have been my driving
) either way I didn't get the chance to drive it quickly over some "give and take" twisty roads, and thus drew no solid conclusions from the test drive. I did notice (from the admittedly brief spell at the wheel) that it felt considerably more remote from "the action" compared with the 964/993. Whilst this may make it more user friendly I place a premium on steering feel.
I notice a lot is written about the GT3s low ground clearance, is this a real problem ? I live within reach of some of the best driving roads in the UK, most of which are smooth but have the occasional viscious crests and humps. Will the GT3 struggle with these like the 964 and to a lesser degree the 993 did or does it's more modern suspension design tend to soak up such tests better. ?
The M3 is quite a bit cheaper to purchase but would need as a mimimum some decent pads and discs to improve the notoriously poor brakes (or better still some nice 6 pot APs
) Has anyone on here owned (or had experience of driving) both these cars ? If so would the CSL make a better toy to use on the road than the GT3 ?
>> Edited by slippydiff on Tuesday 14th March 00:28
If you want the Wow factor every morning when you open the garage door then there's only one car that does it for me, and that's not the bimmer.
However, the csl is a great value car provided you have the brake upgrades done before you buy it.
I believe harnesses are hard to fit with the standard seats though. No such problems with the buckets in the Porker.
Steve
However, the csl is a great value car provided you have the brake upgrades done before you buy it.
I believe harnesses are hard to fit with the standard seats though. No such problems with the buckets in the Porker.
Steve
cavanagh said:
i would look at the csl as a wow factor car my brother has one and everytime i see it it looks good and that is parked next to a 360 spider and a lambo
the only gt3 that i would have over it is a gt3 rs for a real wow factor
Helloooooooooooooooooooooo are you really trying to tell us that a 3 series on steroids pushes the wow buttons like a Lambo or a Ferrari........i think 99% of the car buying public would disagree ...
A GT3 will always be a special Porsche a CSL could and probably will be considered to be (by the uninitiated, who are may i add,the masses) just another chavved up 3 series which in turn spoils your enjoyment as it is then not a complete package, it's just a good drive.
Slippydiff buy a GT3 ..you won't regret it.....
>> Edited by Taaffy on Tuesday 14th March 08:42
If it's purely road driving, then I think the CSL gets it..... Agreed, not as much wow factor to the uninitiated, but the CSL is as well developed (and arguably more so considering the weight saving measures). The CSL is a bit more PS2, the GT3 more organic (!). But I would say the BM is the better road car, and far more practical. Personally I think the CSL will gain more of a cult status as the years pass. The BM will still have warranty, and they're good for claims too - the front PU was repainted on mine foc. Ultimately tho', the £10k saving would probably swing it. Either way, you can't go wrong.
BTW - have you actually driven the CSL yet - the 1st drive I had sold it too me - and that was coming from a GT2......
>> Edited by mbutchers on Tuesday 14th March 10:03
BTW - have you actually driven the CSL yet - the 1st drive I had sold it too me - and that was coming from a GT2......
>> Edited by mbutchers on Tuesday 14th March 10:03
GT3 on top so far (I'm glad to say 
), I'd expected some comments on the SMG g/box in the CSL detracting from "the driving experience", is it really that good ? Or is the car as whole that good that the SMG box is not an issue ?
Having test driven a standard SMG equipped M3 a couple of years ago (only for an hour or so), I must admit I enjoyed it, but left the car thinking the novelty could wear off and leave you with a gearbox that could annoy/irratate as it doesn't do what you want it to do when you want it to ?
Practicality isn't an issue , and if I'm really honest the extra £10-15K wouldn't be the clincher either.
I've a test drive of a GT3 booked for tomorrow (weather permitting)
), I'd expected some comments on the SMG g/box in the CSL detracting from "the driving experience", is it really that good ? Or is the car as whole that good that the SMG box is not an issue ? Having test driven a standard SMG equipped M3 a couple of years ago (only for an hour or so), I must admit I enjoyed it, but left the car thinking the novelty could wear off and leave you with a gearbox that could annoy/irratate as it doesn't do what you want it to do when you want it to ?
Practicality isn't an issue , and if I'm really honest the extra £10-15K wouldn't be the clincher either.
I've a test drive of a GT3 booked for tomorrow (weather permitting)
It really depends on the use..... The SMG on the CSL is better than the standard car. Lots of options for shift speed in Man and Auto mode. As an alrounder, the CSL has no peers IMO.... It can do the racer bit, then at the flick of a switch can go fully (smooth - KayC!) auto when you've had enough of hustling. For spirited road use, it also has great traction control - switchable from fully on to M track mode, to fully off. To be honest, the only way that the Porsche convincingly beats the BM is in the Wow factor - I'm sure that's a bit controversial to the GT3 mafia, but is only really testament to how good the CSL is - not knocking the GT3 at all.
>> Edited by mbutchers on Tuesday 14th March 11:03
>> Edited by mbutchers on Tuesday 14th March 11:03
The GT3 is truly special - in a purpose built/hand carved motorsport way. It feels that way everytime you open the door, start the race-derived engine, and drive it over any kind of road... including all the pluses and minuses.
The CSL is an awesome car. It's hugely practical and can also hack it on track. But at the end of the day, it's a tuned and pumped up Bimmer that lacks the final 2-3% that separates the good from the great. It doesn't have the same depth of talent as the GT3, but it is more liveable and better over a wider variety of roads/scenarios.
CSL a superb jack-of-many-trades, GT3 a specialist ninja... (and it seems like all CSLs are grey?)
The CSL is an awesome car. It's hugely practical and can also hack it on track. But at the end of the day, it's a tuned and pumped up Bimmer that lacks the final 2-3% that separates the good from the great. It doesn't have the same depth of talent as the GT3, but it is more liveable and better over a wider variety of roads/scenarios.
CSL a superb jack-of-many-trades, GT3 a specialist ninja... (and it seems like all CSLs are grey?)
DanH, agree totally, the clutch issue is really putting me off the CSL, all the more annoying is the fact it doesn't seem to affect all the cars ? Also agree the warranty situation does seem to have left a bit of a bad taste. Though this would be more tolerable if BMW had a definite fix for the clutch woes that appear to have been affecting these cars for at least 12 months now
Mark, how many miles did you do in your car ? Did you notice the clutch problem or were you aware of others having it ?
Do the Cups make a huge difference on the road ?
Mark, how many miles did you do in your car ? Did you notice the clutch problem or were you aware of others having it ?
Do the Cups make a huge difference on the road ?
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