Why does my 968 CS not sell ?
Discussion
This is by no means a plea or extra advertising for my car, but I cannot understand why this car has not been snapped up. It has decent miles and is such a brilliant example. I have not over priced it (in my opinion) and I have no hidden agenda's for selling it.
Is the market not there ?
I realise someone else brought this topic up recently but I would appreciate some advice personally. Im going to the PCGB festival next weekend and the car will be there.
Very frustrating.....
www.pistonheads.com/sales/87475.htm
Is the market not there ?
I realise someone else brought this topic up recently but I would appreciate some advice personally. Im going to the PCGB festival next weekend and the car will be there.
Very frustrating.....
www.pistonheads.com/sales/87475.htm
Having just sold mt brother in laws 911 a few weeks ago, I would suggest alot more pictures both inside and out and a bit more description, service details, money spent upgrades etc etc, hope this helps. Would have thought it would sell as they are desirable cars and top track day tools.
Afraid to say, I do think it's overpriced.
I bought mine 4 months ago. It's a Sport, but CS has buckets, M030 ARBs, Big Red brake's, KW Variant 3 coilovers, 1/2 cage, harnesses, strut brace and GT3 adjustable top mounts. As well as FSH, 75k miles and truely immaculate. And I paid a couple of grand less than you're looking for.
I know my cars quite highly modified, and yours is standard, and that can affect prices either way, so they're not easily comparable. Any buyer of your car would have to expect it to need a suspension refresh some time soon, as 13 years and 70k+ miles will make it feel less than new, so there's another £1500 or so.
Also, the car has none of the attractive selling points such as M030 ARBs and brakes, or the LSD and FSH is common on these cars, so why buy one without?
Also definitely agree with the above post though, that you need a lot more photos and details about the car.
Have a look at this for a good advert and keen pricing:
www.pistonheads.com/sales/65082.htm
Sorry - I feel I've just spent a couple of minutes knocking your car - I'm sure it's cracking, and I don't mean to - just trying to help. Good luck.
I bought mine 4 months ago. It's a Sport, but CS has buckets, M030 ARBs, Big Red brake's, KW Variant 3 coilovers, 1/2 cage, harnesses, strut brace and GT3 adjustable top mounts. As well as FSH, 75k miles and truely immaculate. And I paid a couple of grand less than you're looking for.
I know my cars quite highly modified, and yours is standard, and that can affect prices either way, so they're not easily comparable. Any buyer of your car would have to expect it to need a suspension refresh some time soon, as 13 years and 70k+ miles will make it feel less than new, so there's another £1500 or so.
Also, the car has none of the attractive selling points such as M030 ARBs and brakes, or the LSD and FSH is common on these cars, so why buy one without?
Also definitely agree with the above post though, that you need a lot more photos and details about the car.
Have a look at this for a good advert and keen pricing:
www.pistonheads.com/sales/65082.htm
Sorry - I feel I've just spent a couple of minutes knocking your car - I'm sure it's cracking, and I don't mean to - just trying to help. Good luck.
Edited by willdew on Sunday 20th August 22:48
Edited by willdew on Monday 21st August 10:51
I have to agree with the previous posts,I have no wish to be critical but the pictures just don`t do the car justice.The 968 is a very desirible Porsche but you`ve made it look almost ordinary.
Edited to say I think a potential buyer would like to read much more than is written about the car .
Edited to say I think a potential buyer would like to read much more than is written about the car .
Edited by mikial on Monday 21st August 00:19
Although better advertising will always help - it is not your fault that your car is not selling because there are now too many older Porsches in the sub £20K bracket for the number of buyers. We have anticipated this for several years and although it took longer than we expected - it is now upon us and unlikely to go away.
The guys who want old classics have either already got them (or the few that change hands satisfy the market), the guys wanting new (say no more than 5 years old) can find them but not so many want a not new - not old classic - Porsche. Add to this the general fact that apprentices, students etc - these days all seem to have cars no more than 3 years old (some brand new thanks to daddy) and there is a shift towards more fashionable products that are less likely to go wrong in the first few years.
This over supply to the 2nd hand market is a result of Porsche selling more and more cars in the last 15 years - and relatively few getting written off due to their high value. It means that every year there are more Porsches in the UK and on the market than before.
As always - too many for the market and prices drop and only the best cars (top colours and specs) with the cheapest prices (competitive with others on the market) will sell (too much choice).
The misery is not over yet either as I think prices may fall further because we are beginning to see interest in early Boxsters from previous owners of old 944's and 911'1 (3.2's and older) who can finally find a newer Porsche that they can afford - to replace their old faithfull - that is now getting just too old (doesn't quite have the same image as before) and is becoming relatively expensive to maintain. For some time now owners of these cars could not find a newer Porsche that they could afford that was worthwhile upgrading to - but the fall in the prices of the newer cars is changing all that. This interest in - particularly Boxsters - wil however not put Boxster prices up as there will be even more on the market soon (autumn/winter upon us), but it will put 968, 944 and early 911 prices down as more of them come to the market at a time when they are not so popular.
We only have a relatively small sales area - relying on repairs and servicing for our main income - and this uncertainty about market prices has encouraged us to de-stock - to avoid prices falling quicker than we can sell them - until the maket stabilises - but I think we are the only dealers expressing this viewpoint - so perhaps we are wrong and over reacting - only time will tell - you must make your own mind up.
I do think however that the relative stability of prices year on year in the sub £20K (3.2 Carerra's), sub £15K (968's), sub £10K (S2's and 944 turbos), sub and £5K (944's)that we have got used to seeing - is over for good and that a more progressive depreciation on all models (more like family car experiences) will follow.
Furthermore the price people can afford for a third sports car is generally rising as we all become better off and as our house values rise, borrowing to finance such a purchase is easier and cheaper.
Previously it was only the running costs that were the main consideration, as depreciation was relatively low - but now both will influence prices and coupled with a general public shift towards newer cars - there will probably a general shift up-market.
Well thats what I think anyway - for what it is worth - but it is only one point of view and you should take all opinions into account - hopefully more will follow.
Baz Hartech
The guys who want old classics have either already got them (or the few that change hands satisfy the market), the guys wanting new (say no more than 5 years old) can find them but not so many want a not new - not old classic - Porsche. Add to this the general fact that apprentices, students etc - these days all seem to have cars no more than 3 years old (some brand new thanks to daddy) and there is a shift towards more fashionable products that are less likely to go wrong in the first few years.
This over supply to the 2nd hand market is a result of Porsche selling more and more cars in the last 15 years - and relatively few getting written off due to their high value. It means that every year there are more Porsches in the UK and on the market than before.
As always - too many for the market and prices drop and only the best cars (top colours and specs) with the cheapest prices (competitive with others on the market) will sell (too much choice).
The misery is not over yet either as I think prices may fall further because we are beginning to see interest in early Boxsters from previous owners of old 944's and 911'1 (3.2's and older) who can finally find a newer Porsche that they can afford - to replace their old faithfull - that is now getting just too old (doesn't quite have the same image as before) and is becoming relatively expensive to maintain. For some time now owners of these cars could not find a newer Porsche that they could afford that was worthwhile upgrading to - but the fall in the prices of the newer cars is changing all that. This interest in - particularly Boxsters - wil however not put Boxster prices up as there will be even more on the market soon (autumn/winter upon us), but it will put 968, 944 and early 911 prices down as more of them come to the market at a time when they are not so popular.
We only have a relatively small sales area - relying on repairs and servicing for our main income - and this uncertainty about market prices has encouraged us to de-stock - to avoid prices falling quicker than we can sell them - until the maket stabilises - but I think we are the only dealers expressing this viewpoint - so perhaps we are wrong and over reacting - only time will tell - you must make your own mind up.
I do think however that the relative stability of prices year on year in the sub £20K (3.2 Carerra's), sub £15K (968's), sub £10K (S2's and 944 turbos), sub and £5K (944's)that we have got used to seeing - is over for good and that a more progressive depreciation on all models (more like family car experiences) will follow.
Furthermore the price people can afford for a third sports car is generally rising as we all become better off and as our house values rise, borrowing to finance such a purchase is easier and cheaper.
Previously it was only the running costs that were the main consideration, as depreciation was relatively low - but now both will influence prices and coupled with a general public shift towards newer cars - there will probably a general shift up-market.
Well thats what I think anyway - for what it is worth - but it is only one point of view and you should take all opinions into account - hopefully more will follow.
Baz Hartech
dsmith968 said:
This is by no means a plea or extra advertising for my car, but I cannot understand why this car has not been snapped up. It has decent miles and is such a brilliant example. I have not over priced it (in my opinion) and I have no hidden agenda's for selling it.
Is the market not there ?
I realise someone else brought this topic up recently but I would appreciate some advice personally. Im going to the PCGB festival next weekend and the car will be there.
Very frustrating.....
www.pistonheads.com/sales/87475.htm
Is the market not there ?
I realise someone else brought this topic up recently but I would appreciate some advice personally. Im going to the PCGB festival next weekend and the car will be there.
Very frustrating.....
www.pistonheads.com/sales/87475.htm
Because rather obviously it is over priced! Why should anybody pay more than £10k for a 968CS when you can now get much newer Boxsters for about £13k or so? The market simply will not tolerate it.
dsmith968 said:
This is by no means a plea or extra advertising for my car, but I cannot understand why this car has not been snapped up. It has decent miles and is such a brilliant example. I have not over priced it (in my opinion) and I have no hidden agenda's for selling it.
Is the market not there ?
I realise someone else brought this topic up recently but I would appreciate some advice personally. Im going to the PCGB festival next weekend and the car will be there.
Very frustrating.....
www.pistonheads.com/sales/87475.htm
Is the market not there ?
I realise someone else brought this topic up recently but I would appreciate some advice personally. Im going to the PCGB festival next weekend and the car will be there.
Very frustrating.....
www.pistonheads.com/sales/87475.htm
I understand what you are saying, my car has been on the market since Feb.
I dont think you need to lower it much. Although my car is priced at £9995.00 (I started at £10995) it has a few modifications and sport seats.
I think yours will sell much quicker at a reduced price because it is standard and that is what the buyers are looking for at the moment.
others above far more qualified than I to comment but sounds like you are going to take a bigger hit than you have priced in
but put it in perspective, you have had this lovely-looking car for 2 years, what did you pay for it - 15/16k? 3 or 4k depreciation is tiny on any modern car thses days - hope that makes the pain easier!
but put it in perspective, you have had this lovely-looking car for 2 years, what did you pay for it - 15/16k? 3 or 4k depreciation is tiny on any modern car thses days - hope that makes the pain easier!
Edited by Adam B on Monday 21st August 09:37
I have been driven around Snetteron in a 968CS and I thought it was brilliant and definately 'a true Porsche'.
Perhaps you could include some more details in your advert about how highly regarded the car was in its day and even how much it cost. What were they new? Close on GBP40K if I remember correctly!
In today's marketplace, I still think that CS is a fantastic car primarily for occasional track use, but you would have to agree that are cheaper ways of getting a similar experience (the obvious one being a suitably prepared 944 Turbo) so you will really have to wait for someone who values the CS for what it is/was. The buyer will probably turn out to be someone in their mid-thirties who lusted after them when they were in production.
However, I believe that the fact that there are only 4 cylinders may ultimately limit the wider / long term appeal and therefore value of the 968. This, plus the potential price-overlap to arguably more 'widely appealing' Porsche models - such as Boxsters and 964's.
Good luck and I hope you get some serious interest at the PCGB festival.
Perhaps you could include some more details in your advert about how highly regarded the car was in its day and even how much it cost. What were they new? Close on GBP40K if I remember correctly!
In today's marketplace, I still think that CS is a fantastic car primarily for occasional track use, but you would have to agree that are cheaper ways of getting a similar experience (the obvious one being a suitably prepared 944 Turbo) so you will really have to wait for someone who values the CS for what it is/was. The buyer will probably turn out to be someone in their mid-thirties who lusted after them when they were in production.
However, I believe that the fact that there are only 4 cylinders may ultimately limit the wider / long term appeal and therefore value of the 968. This, plus the potential price-overlap to arguably more 'widely appealing' Porsche models - such as Boxsters and 964's.
Good luck and I hope you get some serious interest at the PCGB festival.
I agree wiuth a lot of what has already been said but i think there are a couple of other things to consider. Firstly the whole used car market has changed with the internet explosion, price is now the driving factor and everybody wants a bargin (but good quality at the same time). Second there is massive choice of alternative sports cars in that price bucket, that would be much newer too and if your car is not on Autotrader.co.uk or Ebay it is difficult to reach the market, you do not say where you have advertised it? The only way to sell is to standout, get the best photots you can of the car, take differnt angles and include close ups and then do a search on Autotrader and price it low for the quality/mileage etc. If good models are priced at £12k, cars that sell are probally £1.5k less. Had a similar problem with an Audi TT that I sold. Was priced fairly for conditions, but until I cut the price no calls at all, but when appeared a good car for the money the phone would not stop ringing and it sold to first that came to view.
The Club Sport was the cheapest 968 at launch, circa £28k - £29k against the Coupe Lux at £35k ish.
So for a car that's 12 years old you are asking nearer 50% of its new price. I think there are more CS's for sale than any other 968 and you realistically will only get £11500 to £12000 for it.
So for a car that's 12 years old you are asking nearer 50% of its new price. I think there are more CS's for sale than any other 968 and you realistically will only get £11500 to £12000 for it.
I was looking for a CS recently but decided that many of them were over priced and too few had the desirable Mo30 options (I'm afraid that I think that a 968CS is only worth buying if its got Mo30, the track orientated spec is what makes the car special IMHO) - there are actually a fair few around but, it would seem, not too many buyers. You have to really want a 968CS to pay the same money out as you could get a much newer Boxster for. I'm afraid that its "supply and demand".
In the end I bought a 944 Turbo with low miles and Silver Rose spec because I could get similar capability (inc Mo30)for less than HALF the price of a 968CS. OK, I know that the CS has the appeal of being a "classic" that the mags all raved about but I have spoken to a few people, including an independent specialist, who reckons that the 944 was always better built! The CS seems to have acquired a "semi RS" type cachet, and I know that they are good cars, but I am just not sure that it is worth the significant premium.
Perhaps in 5 years time when values are rising I'll regret it but for now I can do a lot with the £6k that I have saved.
In the end I bought a 944 Turbo with low miles and Silver Rose spec because I could get similar capability (inc Mo30)for less than HALF the price of a 968CS. OK, I know that the CS has the appeal of being a "classic" that the mags all raved about but I have spoken to a few people, including an independent specialist, who reckons that the 944 was always better built! The CS seems to have acquired a "semi RS" type cachet, and I know that they are good cars, but I am just not sure that it is worth the significant premium.
Perhaps in 5 years time when values are rising I'll regret it but for now I can do a lot with the £6k that I have saved.
When I sold my 911 earlier this year, I was amazed at the lack of interest compared to when I nearly sold it last year. When it did go, taling into consideration that some work was required, the drop year on year was £4250, or 18%. And that was for a special model with low miles, extensive (and expensive) history and in great condition.
IMHO what also is not helping is the prospect of paying £2000 a year in road tax which seems to be gaining ground with the w*****s who run our country. I am sure that the market for any Porsche other than new/nearly new will die in ten years.
Sorry to be so cheerful.
IMHO what also is not helping is the prospect of paying £2000 a year in road tax which seems to be gaining ground with the w*****s who run our country. I am sure that the market for any Porsche other than new/nearly new will die in ten years.
Sorry to be so cheerful.
some very interesting debate on here!
with regards to the ad - you NEED to show the seats - you may as well prove you have them befor someone turns up / if someone doesn't know what they are like that will surely get them interested.
if the decals are OE Porsche then keep them otherwise remove. if you have the original orange indicators i'd donsider refitting them - or at least let people know you have the parts - myself and my mates (mid 20s) would all much prefer the genuine 'old skool' look of a std 968.
good luck!
with regards to the ad - you NEED to show the seats - you may as well prove you have them befor someone turns up / if someone doesn't know what they are like that will surely get them interested.
if the decals are OE Porsche then keep them otherwise remove. if you have the original orange indicators i'd donsider refitting them - or at least let people know you have the parts - myself and my mates (mid 20s) would all much prefer the genuine 'old skool' look of a std 968.
good luck!
baSkey said:
if you have the original orange indicators i'd donsider refitting them - or at least let people know you have the parts - myself and my mates (mid 20s) would all much prefer the genuine 'old skool' look of a std 968.
I'm thinking I might source some original indicators and add them back to mine too. I've got clear conversions, and think I prefer the orignals. Are we starting a renaissance??
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