Porsche Rolling road II
Discussion
Right guys,
After the disappointment of last Saturday. G-Force have said they would be able to re-host the event on Saturday 29th May starting at 09:00. Again they require a minimum of 12 cars with a maximum of 24. So it's first come first served again. The Price will be £50 per car but this would drop to £40 if we get more than 20 cars. This includes a pre-run level check including oil, tyres and water (if required).
This is the link for their address / map / contact details.
www.g-force-motorsport.co.uk/contact.html
E-mail me your details including -:
Your name,
Pistonheads ID,
Car type,
Colour,
Year,
Registration,
Contact number (optional),
and I'll add you to the list. My e-mail for this event is RR2@planetEarp.net
Cheers, Steve, 996TT
>>> Edited by 996 turbo on Sunday 16th May 13:47
After the disappointment of last Saturday. G-Force have said they would be able to re-host the event on Saturday 29th May starting at 09:00. Again they require a minimum of 12 cars with a maximum of 24. So it's first come first served again. The Price will be £50 per car but this would drop to £40 if we get more than 20 cars. This includes a pre-run level check including oil, tyres and water (if required).
This is the link for their address / map / contact details.
www.g-force-motorsport.co.uk/contact.html
E-mail me your details including -:
Your name,
Pistonheads ID,
Car type,
Colour,
Year,
Registration,
Contact number (optional),
and I'll add you to the list. My e-mail for this event is RR2@planetEarp.net
Cheers, Steve, 996TT
>>> Edited by 996 turbo on Sunday 16th May 13:47
996 turbo said:
After the disappointment of last Saturday. G-Force have said they would be able to re-host the event on Saturday 29th May starting at 09:00.
What happened?
I was tempted to put my name down for the test but couldn't due to other commitments. Did something go wrong with this session?
Tarka said:
What happened?
I was tempted to put my name down for the test but couldn't due to other commitments. Did something go wrong with this session?
See this thread for details -:
http://pistonheads.net/gassing/topic.asp?t=92845&f=48&h=0&p=3
Basically the rolling road broke the night before, so we were sent home. Having been given another date, which hopefully most of us will be able to make.
Steve, 996TT
It was good to meet you all on Saturday. Count me in for 29-May please Steve.
Click the link below to see the photos that I took:
http://photos.fotango.com/cgi-bin/view_private_share_multiple.cgi?S_ID=273833&P_W=93548&ALBUMS=435953
Click the link below to see the photos that I took:
http://photos.fotango.com/cgi-bin/view_private_share_multiple.cgi?S_ID=273833&P_W=93548&ALBUMS=435953
I would say your first priority with a new turbo is to get it on a Rolling Road. I would no longer buy one with out getting it on an RR. You've spent all that money for extra performance, so I would suggest you owe it to yourself to check that you actually have it. Perhaps more importantly you'll want to make sure you have good AF ratio's (and/or stable boost), lean fuelling will at best take years off your engine, at worst will nuke it. £50 very well spent in my book.
Marquis_Rex said:
Hi guys, Im most likely picking up my silver 993 TT this weekend, but I'm not sure I want to know so soon how much horspower she's making, so would it be OK for me to turn up and "hang" with you Porsche enthusiasts, or would that be taking the pee a bit?
Paul,
Feel free to come along and have a chat. Mind you, I do think it's the perfect time to get it on the rollers. You'll get a true comparison against other 993TT's on the same day, same rolling road etc.
Think of it as a health check. The rolling road operators are very experienced and won't test it to destruction (if it's even possible with a 993). I'll put you on the list, then you can decide on the day, no pressure though.
Cheers, Steve, 996TT
Ultra,
I understand what you’re saying ,although rolling road tests ALONE are meaningless, as I wouldn’t trust a chasis dyno in absolute terms- unless it was a well calibrated Dynojet incrtia dyno-perhaps a 248- but in this case I admit it makes more sense because you can compare what you car is making compared to other cars of the same type. In my case, I may do it in the future, but I’m quite happy with the ample performance at the moment.
On a modern mapped and catalysed car such as this, with its Motronic 5.2 engine management the car actually runs at stoichiometric/14.6:1 AFR at part load when it is running closed loop fueling mode- this is enforced by the lambda sond so it is incapable of running lean at part load-once it gets close to full load or WOT the engine then runs “open loop” fueling and the priority becomes the temperature of the catalysts and/or turbos- and the fueling is continually adjusted to keep the catalysts below 850-900 deg C so the cats don’t fry- this becomes the priority. The catalytic converter condition is also monitored by a second lambda sond and an OBD2 warning flag is thrown up –car going into limp home mode if anything is a miss. So the mixture is tightly regulated. The ignition is controled carefully too, especially important on a boosted car – in this case the Motronic 5.2 unit will retard the ignition by up to 12 degrees, if say, for instance 95 octane fuel is used rather then 98-hence it being safe to use both types-so the ignition is tightly regulated too.
If lean fueling were possible- it won’t take “years off” your engine, - old pre cat cars that ran open loop fueling all the time running lean at part load to good effect for fuel economy (up to 17:1) with perhaps a negative impact on Nox emissions. Under extreme conditions you could hole a piston (but typically only on boosted engines)- or “nuke the engine”- but an engine equipped with Motronic 5.2 will simply go into limp home mode if anything is amiss.
>> Edited by Marquis_Rex on Tuesday 18th May 14:00
I understand what you’re saying ,although rolling road tests ALONE are meaningless, as I wouldn’t trust a chasis dyno in absolute terms- unless it was a well calibrated Dynojet incrtia dyno-perhaps a 248- but in this case I admit it makes more sense because you can compare what you car is making compared to other cars of the same type. In my case, I may do it in the future, but I’m quite happy with the ample performance at the moment.
On a modern mapped and catalysed car such as this, with its Motronic 5.2 engine management the car actually runs at stoichiometric/14.6:1 AFR at part load when it is running closed loop fueling mode- this is enforced by the lambda sond so it is incapable of running lean at part load-once it gets close to full load or WOT the engine then runs “open loop” fueling and the priority becomes the temperature of the catalysts and/or turbos- and the fueling is continually adjusted to keep the catalysts below 850-900 deg C so the cats don’t fry- this becomes the priority. The catalytic converter condition is also monitored by a second lambda sond and an OBD2 warning flag is thrown up –car going into limp home mode if anything is a miss. So the mixture is tightly regulated. The ignition is controled carefully too, especially important on a boosted car – in this case the Motronic 5.2 unit will retard the ignition by up to 12 degrees, if say, for instance 95 octane fuel is used rather then 98-hence it being safe to use both types-so the ignition is tightly regulated too.
If lean fueling were possible- it won’t take “years off” your engine, - old pre cat cars that ran open loop fueling all the time running lean at part load to good effect for fuel economy (up to 17:1) with perhaps a negative impact on Nox emissions. Under extreme conditions you could hole a piston (but typically only on boosted engines)- or “nuke the engine”- but an engine equipped with Motronic 5.2 will simply go into limp home mode if anything is amiss.
>> Edited by Marquis_Rex on Tuesday 18th May 14:00
Marquis Rex, it sounds like you have a great car and certainly know your engines.
I am aware of a couple of TT purchased over the last year that have been 100bhp down on power requiring top end rebuilds.
I wondered what tests you did as an engineer to verify the output or engine condition before your purchase.
I am aware of a couple of TT purchased over the last year that have been 100bhp down on power requiring top end rebuilds.
I wondered what tests you did as an engineer to verify the output or engine condition before your purchase.
Whilst your faith is admirable, and with your car, probably not misguided, I would say things do fail, and its always the things that check things that go first. The dyno is an inertia dyno and is proclaimed to be the most accurate in the UK (has fully sealed dyno room). It is used by Honda to test fuel efficiency..... I have run my car on it several times and they are able to produce runs within 1bhp of each other time and time again.
The problem with Turbo' cars, is they feel fast even when they are not, as the relative change in performance (between on and off boost) can be exaggerated with certain fuelling conditions (again been there done that).
Most production cars run narrow band lambda which is of limited use as they are just not quick enough. It's basically to get you through an MOT, as far as I can tell....
Running a CIS turbo I can tell you my biggest problem is going lean. I have seen an engine that, due to the stupid lambda control, went lean and it ain’t pretty. And given lean = heat, it will take years off your engine (assuming it is allowed to run like that).
I appreciate that you have, the not inconsiderable improvement in technology on your side, but i'm surprised that you wouldn't want to prove to yourself that all is well with your new super bug. And any how, if you don't go, how is Chris ever going to talk you into mod'ing your car, to within an inch of its life......
The problem with Turbo' cars, is they feel fast even when they are not, as the relative change in performance (between on and off boost) can be exaggerated with certain fuelling conditions (again been there done that).
Most production cars run narrow band lambda which is of limited use as they are just not quick enough. It's basically to get you through an MOT, as far as I can tell....
Running a CIS turbo I can tell you my biggest problem is going lean. I have seen an engine that, due to the stupid lambda control, went lean and it ain’t pretty. And given lean = heat, it will take years off your engine (assuming it is allowed to run like that).
I appreciate that you have, the not inconsiderable improvement in technology on your side, but i'm surprised that you wouldn't want to prove to yourself that all is well with your new super bug. And any how, if you don't go, how is Chris ever going to talk you into mod'ing your car, to within an inch of its life......
Ohh dear, I just had a word with our dyno guys downstairs some cars on the rollers will overheat and the fans can’t provide enough air flow for cooling above an inertial equivalent of 90 mph that you would get during normal road use. Add to that that this car is air cooled- you can understand that I’m cautious/scared. Some cars, out there can’t toe for exactly this reason due to the cooling system not being able to handle the extra load on the engine at considerably lower vehicle speeds. I did some contract work for Weissach in the early nineties, I might try to talk to a contact about this there.
If you’re confident yours will be fine, that is fine- I can’t afford to be.
In terms of mods, having helped develop engines myself from road cars to GT racing cars to Formula 1 stuff , if I venture into modding I prefer to do all the modding myself really…
Don’t get me wrong I am happy that the 993 TT has a sophisticated ECU system but I’ll always like K Jet, perhaps not on something as complicated as a super intricate super car with all the bells and whistles but on a simple car, with no cats or emissions kit, the K jet fuel flow meter is efficicient enough and simple amd easy to repair for me.
If you’re confident yours will be fine, that is fine- I can’t afford to be.
In terms of mods, having helped develop engines myself from road cars to GT racing cars to Formula 1 stuff , if I venture into modding I prefer to do all the modding myself really…
Don’t get me wrong I am happy that the 993 TT has a sophisticated ECU system but I’ll always like K Jet, perhaps not on something as complicated as a super intricate super car with all the bells and whistles but on a simple car, with no cats or emissions kit, the K jet fuel flow meter is efficicient enough and simple amd easy to repair for me.
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