Chris Harris' 997.1 GT3 with exe-tc Suspension and Akrapovic
Discussion
I’ve renamed this thread as I thought there is probably some useful information in it for someone that might have been skimmed over with the original title.
This is how it started:
“Had a rather surreal DM on Twitter the other day.
"Not using the GT3 for a couple of weeks. Fancy taking it for a few days?"
Not the normal kind of thing I get in my inbox. Especially not when the person sending the DM is Chris Harris!
It's not like I even know him that well. Only met him twice over the past 2 years, so it was quite a surprise to get the offer. But one I couldn't refuse. Could I!
Picking it up tomorrow afternoon. Can't wait to see what this new suspension system is like. And how that Akrapovic system sounds.”
Well, all I can say is that it is better than I ever imagined possible....
First off, I do have to say a massive thanks to Chris Harris for entrusting me with his own personal car for a few days. This isn't a hacks car. It's not a loan or a long termer from the manufacturer. It's his own personal car. As I mentioned before, I've only met Chris twice, briefly, in the past, and yet here I am writing about driving his car after the first of 3 days that it's going to be in my care. Huge thanks.
So basically, I have sold my much-loved and Cayman S that I have owned from new purchased back in December 2005. I had had Chris at Centre Gravity fit Bilstein PSS9 suspension on it last year, and had a Remus system fitted around the same time. Upon hearing that the Cayman had gone in order to help finance a Gen1 997 GT3 later this year, Chris offered the use of his "development" car for a few days to see what I though of it. So here goes:
1) the car and engine itself is beyond what I thought it would be. The way the engine pulls and pulls from low in the rev range and then just gets stronger and stronger as the revs build is just stunning. I was constantly going to change up a gear and then checking the rev counter to see that there was still 2 grand left on the needle. On give and take country road there is no real way you can use the full range of the car. It picks up speed so quickly and effortlessly. Even for most overtakes of multiple cars there is no need to use the full spread of power available. At least I never did today...
The clutch and gear change are Much heavier than I was expecting. The clutch is easy enough to get used to. But moving the stick across the gate quickly requires a real shove. It is very slick and accurate, but heavy and requires force.
The interior is as you would expect. This was a comfort spec car, with Nav, full leather, cruise etc etc, but Chris has replaced the Sport seats with a set of buckets for the weight saving.
2) The exhaust. The Akropovic system is a "full" system. By full I mean it comprises 100 cell headers and back-box. Everything from the head to the tips has been replaced. To give you some kind of idea of the weight saving of this system, Chris reckons that some 80+kg has been cut from the weight of the car with the addition of the exhaust and bucket seats alone!
And holy cow is it loud! It is a fascinating noise. I've shot some video of it tonight and will try and upload it later. There really aren't words that can do it justice. It sounds like a GT car. That should be all I need to say really.
But is it too loud? I think so. Not for the road, although it did make heads turn everywhere I drove. On the motorway people were gawping as I pulled past. In town it was just rude. And on country lanes it had bikers and ramblers diving for the hedge when I was passing at little more than walking pace! But I can't see how you would get on any circuit in the UK on a regular trackday with it as it is. There is a solution, though. Akrapovic do sell a "fuller" full system that includes titanium secondary cat boxes that do quell the noise. But where is the fun in that?!? It’s just a shame it’s not switchable but then it wouldn’t be so light. Swings and roundabouts, ‘n all that.
3) The suspension. This is the real surprise of the car to me. The system fitted is a development kit from exe-tc (www.exe-tc.co.uk). Chris has been working with them to develop a customer system based on the set-up from the VLN cars they have been racing for the last 2 years. Everything on this car is fully solid. No rubber bushings. No Poly bushing. Just solid mounting on every link. It may sound hardcore, but it works very well. Yes, there is quite a bit of noise at low speed. It doesn't feel like a "production" car, but to me that just adds the theatre of it. At walking pace you can hear the joints moving and knocking slightly. They are sure that they can eliminate most of this on the final system, but even as it is, I could live with it very easily. Very easily knowing the benefits it gives once you get really moving...
The only way I can describe how the car rides bumps, grates, potholes and ridges is to liken it to a magic carpet. Only when I got it back home tonight and drove the roads I drive every day, the roads I know every dip, camber and divot of, did I fully understand how good this system is. It isolates features in the road that crash through the suspension of my Merc and used to have the Cayman hitting its bumpstops. Yet it is full of delicacy and feel with clearly defined limits. But it doesn’t ever feel “soft”. You can carry huge pace over most roads that would have the car bucking out of shape, yet this never feels like happening. It is just a magical combination of exemplary ride quality and unshakable body control. If there was one small criticism was that it was being pushed around by the blustery winds today and was slightly vague at the straight ahead position on long straight sections. A geo issue, rather than a hardware one. But under load, in a bend, it soaked up the worst ridges I could find like they weren't there. The way it controlled the body coming out of compressions or over ridges was imense. The shocks never needing more then one movement or stroke to have everything fully in check no matter how harsh the feature or how high the speed.
I really couldn't fault the set up at all. And this is still not a finished system.
And what makes it even more attractive to someone like me is that they have managed to compress all their damper knowledge into a user-friendly single-way damper package. The thing I loved about my PSS9 system on the Cayman was the ability to go from a full hard track setting to a more-then-livable road set-up with just a couple of clicks on a single wheel on each shock. It is literally a 2 minute job to go from one set-up to the other. Simple.
Some pics to finish todays report with:
This is how it started:
“Had a rather surreal DM on Twitter the other day.
"Not using the GT3 for a couple of weeks. Fancy taking it for a few days?"
Not the normal kind of thing I get in my inbox. Especially not when the person sending the DM is Chris Harris!
It's not like I even know him that well. Only met him twice over the past 2 years, so it was quite a surprise to get the offer. But one I couldn't refuse. Could I!
Picking it up tomorrow afternoon. Can't wait to see what this new suspension system is like. And how that Akrapovic system sounds.”
Well, all I can say is that it is better than I ever imagined possible....
First off, I do have to say a massive thanks to Chris Harris for entrusting me with his own personal car for a few days. This isn't a hacks car. It's not a loan or a long termer from the manufacturer. It's his own personal car. As I mentioned before, I've only met Chris twice, briefly, in the past, and yet here I am writing about driving his car after the first of 3 days that it's going to be in my care. Huge thanks.
So basically, I have sold my much-loved and Cayman S that I have owned from new purchased back in December 2005. I had had Chris at Centre Gravity fit Bilstein PSS9 suspension on it last year, and had a Remus system fitted around the same time. Upon hearing that the Cayman had gone in order to help finance a Gen1 997 GT3 later this year, Chris offered the use of his "development" car for a few days to see what I though of it. So here goes:
1) the car and engine itself is beyond what I thought it would be. The way the engine pulls and pulls from low in the rev range and then just gets stronger and stronger as the revs build is just stunning. I was constantly going to change up a gear and then checking the rev counter to see that there was still 2 grand left on the needle. On give and take country road there is no real way you can use the full range of the car. It picks up speed so quickly and effortlessly. Even for most overtakes of multiple cars there is no need to use the full spread of power available. At least I never did today...
The clutch and gear change are Much heavier than I was expecting. The clutch is easy enough to get used to. But moving the stick across the gate quickly requires a real shove. It is very slick and accurate, but heavy and requires force.
The interior is as you would expect. This was a comfort spec car, with Nav, full leather, cruise etc etc, but Chris has replaced the Sport seats with a set of buckets for the weight saving.
2) The exhaust. The Akropovic system is a "full" system. By full I mean it comprises 100 cell headers and back-box. Everything from the head to the tips has been replaced. To give you some kind of idea of the weight saving of this system, Chris reckons that some 80+kg has been cut from the weight of the car with the addition of the exhaust and bucket seats alone!
And holy cow is it loud! It is a fascinating noise. I've shot some video of it tonight and will try and upload it later. There really aren't words that can do it justice. It sounds like a GT car. That should be all I need to say really.
But is it too loud? I think so. Not for the road, although it did make heads turn everywhere I drove. On the motorway people were gawping as I pulled past. In town it was just rude. And on country lanes it had bikers and ramblers diving for the hedge when I was passing at little more than walking pace! But I can't see how you would get on any circuit in the UK on a regular trackday with it as it is. There is a solution, though. Akrapovic do sell a "fuller" full system that includes titanium secondary cat boxes that do quell the noise. But where is the fun in that?!? It’s just a shame it’s not switchable but then it wouldn’t be so light. Swings and roundabouts, ‘n all that.
3) The suspension. This is the real surprise of the car to me. The system fitted is a development kit from exe-tc (www.exe-tc.co.uk). Chris has been working with them to develop a customer system based on the set-up from the VLN cars they have been racing for the last 2 years. Everything on this car is fully solid. No rubber bushings. No Poly bushing. Just solid mounting on every link. It may sound hardcore, but it works very well. Yes, there is quite a bit of noise at low speed. It doesn't feel like a "production" car, but to me that just adds the theatre of it. At walking pace you can hear the joints moving and knocking slightly. They are sure that they can eliminate most of this on the final system, but even as it is, I could live with it very easily. Very easily knowing the benefits it gives once you get really moving...
The only way I can describe how the car rides bumps, grates, potholes and ridges is to liken it to a magic carpet. Only when I got it back home tonight and drove the roads I drive every day, the roads I know every dip, camber and divot of, did I fully understand how good this system is. It isolates features in the road that crash through the suspension of my Merc and used to have the Cayman hitting its bumpstops. Yet it is full of delicacy and feel with clearly defined limits. But it doesn’t ever feel “soft”. You can carry huge pace over most roads that would have the car bucking out of shape, yet this never feels like happening. It is just a magical combination of exemplary ride quality and unshakable body control. If there was one small criticism was that it was being pushed around by the blustery winds today and was slightly vague at the straight ahead position on long straight sections. A geo issue, rather than a hardware one. But under load, in a bend, it soaked up the worst ridges I could find like they weren't there. The way it controlled the body coming out of compressions or over ridges was imense. The shocks never needing more then one movement or stroke to have everything fully in check no matter how harsh the feature or how high the speed.
I really couldn't fault the set up at all. And this is still not a finished system.
And what makes it even more attractive to someone like me is that they have managed to compress all their damper knowledge into a user-friendly single-way damper package. The thing I loved about my PSS9 system on the Cayman was the ability to go from a full hard track setting to a more-then-livable road set-up with just a couple of clicks on a single wheel on each shock. It is literally a 2 minute job to go from one set-up to the other. Simple.
Some pics to finish todays report with:
Got back a couple of hours ago from returning the GT3 back to Chris' place. Took it back via the long route from Cheshire, across to Chester then Mold and Ruthin and up the B5105 to the Evo triangle then down through Bala and on to Welshpool and down the through the spine of Wales.
I had my friend in tow in my old Cayman S that he bought from me at the beginning of April so that I had a ride home.
The GT3 was beyond all expectation,and I'm in no doubt that I have done the right thing in selling the Cayman to make the switch up to a 997.1 GT3
All I am worried about is whether or not it is going to be as competent with the OEM suspension fitted. On the road the exe-tc system was nothing short of amazing. Yes it knocks and bangs at town speed because of the full solid jointing, but I could live with that (though I am sure it would drive some people to distraction!). At speed there is not a squeak and the combination of ride and poise and response is intoxicating. I hope the OEM stuff gets at least close to this.
Anyway, I have some decent footage from the exhaust (stunning sound bouncing off Walls and rock faces through the best of the Welsh scenery) hat I shot the other night that I'm going to edit tomorrow and I'll drop in here.
To answer a couple of questions from above: The seats are fixed back carbon buckets with leather side bolsters and alcantera centre.
Chris is working with exe-tc to develop a system that works how "he" thinks a car should work. He said he spends his life dissecting what other people do and fancied having a go at building something that he thought was perfect, and then let other people tell him what they think.
He bought the car with no warranty knowing that this was what he had planned for it.
Yes I do think the gearchange is over-heavy compared to everything else. But after a few hundred miles today I felt much more comfortable with it.
Jack
I had my friend in tow in my old Cayman S that he bought from me at the beginning of April so that I had a ride home.
The GT3 was beyond all expectation,and I'm in no doubt that I have done the right thing in selling the Cayman to make the switch up to a 997.1 GT3
All I am worried about is whether or not it is going to be as competent with the OEM suspension fitted. On the road the exe-tc system was nothing short of amazing. Yes it knocks and bangs at town speed because of the full solid jointing, but I could live with that (though I am sure it would drive some people to distraction!). At speed there is not a squeak and the combination of ride and poise and response is intoxicating. I hope the OEM stuff gets at least close to this.
Anyway, I have some decent footage from the exhaust (stunning sound bouncing off Walls and rock faces through the best of the Welsh scenery) hat I shot the other night that I'm going to edit tomorrow and I'll drop in here.
To answer a couple of questions from above: The seats are fixed back carbon buckets with leather side bolsters and alcantera centre.
Chris is working with exe-tc to develop a system that works how "he" thinks a car should work. He said he spends his life dissecting what other people do and fancied having a go at building something that he thought was perfect, and then let other people tell him what they think.
He bought the car with no warranty knowing that this was what he had planned for it.
Yes I do think the gearchange is over-heavy compared to everything else. But after a few hundred miles today I felt much more comfortable with it.
Jack
monthefish said:
What's your connection with Porsche/the industry/Chris Harris?
i.e. I'm sure he doesn't pick random strangers and offer to lend them his on personal car for a few days?!
As Davey said, when Chris, Richard and Jethro were starting out with Drivers Republic I pestered them into letting me tag along to what was supposed to be a Gen2 Cayman v 370Z shootout shoot. I was thinking of changing to a Gen2 Cayman at the time.i.e. I'm sure he doesn't pick random strangers and offer to lend them his on personal car for a few days?!
Chris had a drive of my car (it was standard at the time) and was amazed at what I was bid on it as a trade against a Gen2 and how good it still felt that he included it in the shootout. Chris said at the time that at some time in the future he would make it up to me and pay back the debt of thanks for using my motor in a story.
Last month I sold my Cayman in order preparation for starting to look for a 997.1 GT3 Chris heard about this and asked if I wanted to borrow his GT3 to try it out for a few days and return the favor from 2 years ago. And I accepted.
I don't have anything to do with the industry. I design paintball guns for a living. And as said before, I've only ever met Chris twice in person previous to this weekend.
I think exe-tc have something like 7 WRC titles under their belt, and they recently decided to move into circuit and road dampers. Their GT3 experience comes from running VLN cars for the last couple of years. With Chris's connection he wanted to see if he could build a system to his perfect specification. I think he's very happy with what he has so far. And I was very impressed.
As for the comparison to the stock PASM. Well I never had that on my Cayman but I did fit Bilstein PSS9's so that I could have a more compliant ride for the road and then stiffen it up for the track. I liked the simplicity of it and it was quick and easy to swap between settings. I honestly would not feel comfortable adjusting a 3-way system, but just going from 4 clicks to 9 clicks is so simple that anyone can do it. So that is what I liked about the exe-tc system. It had a 1-way adjuster and you just count the number of clicks on one knob on each damper and off you go. It is exactly what I would want in a road/track car. And in its "road" set-up I didn't ever feel like it needed to be stiffer or firmer. It felt perfectly judged all of the time. It rode really well and yet gripped and changed direction when it needed to, with bags of feedback. I don't know how much of that is due to the hard mounting and how much to the dampers, but whatever it was, it worked. I commented to Chris on the phone after I had driven it for a bit that it didn't feel like any 911 that I have driven before in that you couldn't really feel the weight out over the back. it felt much more mid-engined than rear. And jumping back into my old Cayman on the way home yesterday I actually thought that that felt like it carried more weight over the back axel than the GT3 I had just got out of. Again, the suspension must have a lot to do with that, but then so must the loss of the weight out of the exhaust. How much to attribute to each, I have no idea.
Sorry for the ramble.
Here is a pic of the single adjuster on the top of the front damper. I think it has 50 clicks on this particular version.
The car was pretty bloody filthy when I picked it up.
So I gave it a bath before I returned it. Still got back to him covered in a film of the finest Welsh insects
Edited by jackwood on Wednesday 4th May 00:00
Slippydiff, exactly why I have sold my Cayman to my best friend (he is more than happy with what he has at the price he paid!! PSS9's, K-Mac Camber/Caster mono-ball top mounts, WEVO SS Gearbox mounts, Quaife diff, new condensers, grills, gearchange cables, gearlever mech, Mich Pilot Super Sports, 2 sets of wheels, new cats, etc etc). On a circa £17k car investing £3-4k in a bespoke suspension set-up is simply foolish. But I am going into GT3 ownership with eyes open and ready to change whatever is needed early on rather than waiting and doing it later on in its life like I did with the Cayman. I kept the Cayman for 5 1/2 years and can see me doing the same with a GT3, so an early investment of such a scale would be a worthwhile "smile per pound" investment to me, I think.
I am not sure that you can dial out "some" of the 911-ness from a 911. After all the engine is in the right place for maximum traction and drive out of a corner regardless of what you do to the suspension. If you can set the car up to change direction better, feel more balanced and benign at the limit, and elminate the light nose and tendancy for understeer, then that just adds to the package rather than nullify any of it. That is just my opinion. The best of both worlds can't be a bad thing, can it?
I am not sure that you can dial out "some" of the 911-ness from a 911. After all the engine is in the right place for maximum traction and drive out of a corner regardless of what you do to the suspension. If you can set the car up to change direction better, feel more balanced and benign at the limit, and elminate the light nose and tendancy for understeer, then that just adds to the package rather than nullify any of it. That is just my opinion. The best of both worlds can't be a bad thing, can it?
Callughan said:
s
t! You've just reminded me about the footage I need to upload! Thanks!Vid is here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJWdbB6zAbU
Think the Akropovic was a bit too much for the little camera....
Think the Akropovic was a bit too much for the little camera....
Slippydiff, great post and I don't disagree with a word of it. I suppose I have been tainted by the Cayman curse in having a rapid, benign car and wanting to move up to a more rapid car that doesn't want to kill me. I want an engaging, well engineered, dynamically competent car that is fun and usable in a wide range of conditions and circumstances. I am not particularly after a "911-esque" car. I don't really want something that is "hard" to drive or master. I want something fun, rapid, durable and relatively cheap to run. For me there is little else to move/aspire to other than a GT3. I have never yearned to experience the 911ness of a 911 and if the GT3 contained all its attributes in a front, mid or rear drive configuation would not make a jot of difference to me.
I hope that makes sense.
I hope that makes sense.
Jackgreen said:
I'd like to comment that part: "Chris reckons that some 80+kg has been cut from the weight of the car with the addition of the exhaust and bucket seats alone!"
I made same mods lately. Orig seats were 23 kg's each, new GT3 replica carbon ones 8 kg (including new side plates and etc). Saving 46 - 16 = 30 Kg.
GT3 exhaust is pretty heavy. Cat-back weight is 30 Kg. I left orig headers and orig cats to comply OBD2 check engine. New part is lightweight 7 Kg piece. Pictures here: http://www.adlerflow.com/2011/07/fabrication-of-91... Weight saving from exhaust was 20 Kg-s.
So, total weight saving is 50 Kg. I admire and respect Chris (last time saw in Nürburgring World Cup and 24h race) but really don't by that 80+ Kg story.
So did you leave the kidney-shaped cats in place on your conversion, or remove them completely? I made same mods lately. Orig seats were 23 kg's each, new GT3 replica carbon ones 8 kg (including new side plates and etc). Saving 46 - 16 = 30 Kg.
GT3 exhaust is pretty heavy. Cat-back weight is 30 Kg. I left orig headers and orig cats to comply OBD2 check engine. New part is lightweight 7 Kg piece. Pictures here: http://www.adlerflow.com/2011/07/fabrication-of-91... Weight saving from exhaust was 20 Kg-s.
So, total weight saving is 50 Kg. I admire and respect Chris (last time saw in Nürburgring World Cup and 24h race) but really don't by that 80+ Kg story.
V8KSN said:
Hi all, sorry to resurrect an old thread.
Does anyone know who owns this ex-Harris GT3?
I am thinking of upgrading the suspension of my 997.1 GT3 and I would like to speak to the owner of this car.
Kind regards
Hi,Does anyone know who owns this ex-Harris GT3?
I am thinking of upgrading the suspension of my 997.1 GT3 and I would like to speak to the owner of this car.
Kind regards
Chris' car was put back to OEM PASM dampers before it was sold.
Jack
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