hot starting is a big problem

[ochten]

When I leave the car after some mild driving and try to start the engine after 15 minutes again it is time consuming and difficult.
The battery is new, (73 AH) the standard starter motor is running but it seems that the engine is getting to
much fuel? What is a succes procedure to start a warm/hot engine again after some minutes.
Otherwise no problems when running hot or in the start situation from cold.

[VARLEYHYD]

ochten said:

When I leave the car after some mild driving and try to start the engine after 15 minutes again it is time consuming and difficult.
The battery is new, (73 AH) the standard starter motor is running but it seems that the engine is getting to
much fuel? What is a succes procedure to start a warm/hot engine again after some minutes.
Otherwise no problems when running hot or in the start situation from cold.

1. Check all the earth/ground connections

2. Do not use any throttle- assuming recently serviced/reset

3. If dies/does not start switch off & immobilise give it a minute or so and try again, but allow the fuel pump to prime first.

3. Un plug the air box air temp sensor- if this allows starting thats the problem


Hope this helps

G

[glow worm]

As Graham says... keep off the throttle... however tempting... I think the engine can flood very easily and personally think the backfires through the airbox (and fires!!) are associated with hot start/flooding... IMHO.

[RiddleMcFiddle]

could be valv clearances incorrectly adjusted.

[PetrolHeadPete]

Explain the syptoms a little more please

[ochten]

Tuscan 2003 ,with 15 000 miles, Valve clearance checked, spark plugs new, airfilter new etc. When the outside temp is warm (summer) is starting ,after a short rest (enginebay still hot) , a problem. Engine dies and indeed some bangs in the airfilter housing (sorry, I used the trottle to help starting )

Is it normal that a hot engine (watertemp 92 deg.) always starts a little bit "difficult"?

[BDM]

Mine was a simple fix of ensuring good earths...

[VARLEYHYD]

ochten said:

Tuscan 2003 ,with 15 000 miles, Valve clearance checked, spark plugs new, airfilter new etc. When the outside temp is warm (summer) is starting ,after a short rest (enginebay still hot) , a problem. Engine dies and indeed some bangs in the airfilter housing (sorry, I used the throttle to help starting )

Is it normal that a hot engine (watertemp 92 deg.) always starts a little bit "difficult"?

OK Not normal but try this

disconnect the airbox air temp sensor connector.

You will get a EFI fault but ignore.

This will provide a lower air temperature default figure to the ECU & should help the hot starting issues.

Always worked for me.

G

[ochten]

Thanks Graham for the advice. I'm a big fan of your book. Postive thing is that a Tuscan is never boring and keeps you alive and your mind sharp.

[WhyTwo]

I had a similar problem I think. Car would start fine from cold and as long as the engine temp was not too high - water above circa 70, oil 45 it would still start fine. If I drove it any distance and allowed the engine to warm up and then parked up it wouldn't start for about 30 - 45 mins, nightmare when trying to get fuel!

The problem was the starter motor. I got a refurb unit from TVR Power and all my problems are solved. I'm going to have a heat shield manufactured and then fit it around the starter to prevent it from getting too hot from the exhaust/cats in the future

[PetrolHeadPete]

the problem isn't the cranking from the description
It's more to do with the fuelling
Mine is a bit the same...when hot if I try to start with zero throttle input it tends to sound a bit like a backfire through the air box and will feel like it's not quite going to "catch" and idle on it's own
A tiny bit of throttle gets it everytime
I'll try Grahams suggestion on the air temp sensor

[boardinscotland]

PetrolHeadPete said:

the problem isn't the cranking from the description
It's more to do with the fuelling
Mine is a bit the same...when hot if I try to start with zero throttle input it tends to sound a bit like a backfire through the air box and will feel like it's not quite going to "catch" and idle on it's own
A tiny bit of throttle gets it everytime
I'll try Grahams suggestion on the air temp sensor

I have currently got the same problem but only when it is super hot.(water and oil around 90deg). Have replaced the plugs, leads with magnacors and a new coil pack which has helped a little. Now Graham has mentioned the air temp sensor that will be next.

After 10 mins at the mo it starts fine at hot temps.

G

[ochten]

Yes, I have the exact problem as you discripe it. We have to exclude the other options first and concentrate us on the fuelmix (when starting) . I do hope that replacing the air temp senson does the trick.

[Arapo]

Had the same problem with my car.. When starting it from cold it would start first time, but when starting it with a warmed up engine, the starter motor had trouble cranking it.

210 quid worth of an upgraded 4.3 starter motor + labour later, and I hope it wont do it again...! Fingers crossed...

[ochten]

Yesterday I changed the starter motor for a E 34 (535i/M5) (boschpartnumber 0001110041)
Wow what a difference! Problems seems to be over but it is not hot outside anymore.
More work than expected (you have less space because the motor is substancialy longer than the old one)
I do expect that next summer the hot starting problems are over.
Investment 129,- Euro for a new starter motor (Chinese import?) and some time in the workshop.

[dvs_dave]

Check that the gear on your new starter is a correct mesh with the flywheel ring gear. Someone on here fitted a BMW/Bosch starter and sometime down the line ended up with a stripped ring gear. New flywheel AND starter needed.

[ochten]

How can you check this. I counted the teeth and were the same (9 teeth) How can you tell the difference?

[RM75]

I think this is the thread that DVS Dave is refering to...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=1&a...

[ochten]

I follow the advice of Petrol Head Pete to replace the Bosch part 1108063 for a other Boschpart 1110041 (E34 M5 BMW) and it worked fine. If you use a different type BMW starter motor I assume you have a problem with the starter ring and more . The M5 E34 is similar only 2 till 3 cm's longer than the original (from a 316 BMW) one. The only tricky part is that you have the extend the bolts inside the motor to fix the backplate which holds the lower part of the airfilterhousing.
I made it by welding a bolt on to of the long startermotor bolts but you can solve it also in a different way also.

Did somebody have longer experience with the E34/M5 starter motor in practice?

[PetrolHeadPete]

ochten said:

I follow the advice of Petrol Head Pete to replace the Bosch part 1108063 for a other Boschpart 1110041 (E34 M5 BMW) and it worked fine. If you use a different type BMW starter motor I assume you have a problem with the starter ring and more . The M5 E34 is similar only 2 till 3 cm's longer than the original (from a 316 BMW) one. The only tricky part is that you have the extend the bolts inside the motor to fix the backplate which holds the lower part of the airfilterhousing. I made it by welding a bolt on to of the long startermotor bolts but you can solve it also in a different way also. Did somebody have longer experience with the E34/M5 starter motor in practice?

the starter pinion is identical length and throw which is why i picked the m5 starter after lots of research. Guess mines the oldest at 1year as im not sure the m5 upgrade had been proposed til then...still going strong btw