Think your Tuscan handles well/badly?
Discussion
... because I think I've now been from one end of the spectrum to the other, and there's probably a couple of lessons to be learned.
When I started, driving the car at 70+ was a battle - you really had to have your wits about you as it'd dart about with no notice, following any ruts in the road, camber, etc. Basically, it was dangerous. And lethal in the wet - as any tramlining & trying to catch it could easily unsettle the car. (And I've driven other similar Tuscans, so I'm sure mine's not the only one that's been that bad).
After a continual programme of work from last April -> now, I think I finally got to the end-point last weekend. On Sunday, on a stretch of road not dissimilar to the A64 (but that's privately owned, naturally), I drove at a roughly constant 125mph for just short of two miles. On the inside lane. With my hands folded in my lap. The car just drove itself - straight on the straights, and following the camber on the slight corners. I only put my hands back on the wheel to make a slight adjustment after this, and then did the same again for another substantial amount of time. I could easily have upped that speed and done the same, and I was just driving with the tips of my fingers at 150+.
So, if your Tuscan doesn't feel quite that safe, stable, and thoroughly tame at speed, then there's work to be done. For what it's worth, here's what I've gone through:
* 3x sets of Nitron dampers (after the original RR ones)
* 3x sets of springs (including the original ones)
* 3x geometry set-ups
* 3x tyre arrangements
* Front and rear spoilers fitted
Out of all that, the geometry set-ups and the tyres were the key. The first set-up, a proper (expensive) laser alignment job, was verging on wortheless. Taking it to someone that actually knew Tuscans was the key, and doing it by hand sorted that.
And as for the tyres, putting new ones on (S03s at the front, Eagle F1s at the rear) made no difference at all. Switching them around so that the F1s were on the front made an unbelievable difference - the same improvement as getting the geometry sorted.
The Nitrons, springs, and spoilers have all helped in other, smaller (yet still very noticeable) ways, but weren't what took it from being a truly unpleasant experience to drive at speed to the most stable sports (I choose that word carefully) car I've ever driven at speed.
So, why the post... Because if your Tusc doesn't feel like a (particularly potent) pussycat at serious speeds, then there's something wrong with it, and there are at least 2 others I've experienced similar issues in. And it's probably not a case of "you need Nitrons", or "the Tamora/T350/Tuscan 2 steering rack will fix it", or even "you must have a bent wheel"... it could be something much, much simpler and easier to fix.
The cost of sorting the tyres & alignment out is negligible in the grand scheme of things, but it's taken my car at least from something that was downright unpleasant to drive at speed/times to something truly sublime.
When I started, driving the car at 70+ was a battle - you really had to have your wits about you as it'd dart about with no notice, following any ruts in the road, camber, etc. Basically, it was dangerous. And lethal in the wet - as any tramlining & trying to catch it could easily unsettle the car. (And I've driven other similar Tuscans, so I'm sure mine's not the only one that's been that bad).
After a continual programme of work from last April -> now, I think I finally got to the end-point last weekend. On Sunday, on a stretch of road not dissimilar to the A64 (but that's privately owned, naturally), I drove at a roughly constant 125mph for just short of two miles. On the inside lane. With my hands folded in my lap. The car just drove itself - straight on the straights, and following the camber on the slight corners. I only put my hands back on the wheel to make a slight adjustment after this, and then did the same again for another substantial amount of time. I could easily have upped that speed and done the same, and I was just driving with the tips of my fingers at 150+.
So, if your Tuscan doesn't feel quite that safe, stable, and thoroughly tame at speed, then there's work to be done. For what it's worth, here's what I've gone through:
* 3x sets of Nitron dampers (after the original RR ones)
* 3x sets of springs (including the original ones)
* 3x geometry set-ups
* 3x tyre arrangements
* Front and rear spoilers fitted
Out of all that, the geometry set-ups and the tyres were the key. The first set-up, a proper (expensive) laser alignment job, was verging on wortheless. Taking it to someone that actually knew Tuscans was the key, and doing it by hand sorted that.
And as for the tyres, putting new ones on (S03s at the front, Eagle F1s at the rear) made no difference at all. Switching them around so that the F1s were on the front made an unbelievable difference - the same improvement as getting the geometry sorted.
The Nitrons, springs, and spoilers have all helped in other, smaller (yet still very noticeable) ways, but weren't what took it from being a truly unpleasant experience to drive at speed to the most stable sports (I choose that word carefully) car I've ever driven at speed.
So, why the post... Because if your Tusc doesn't feel like a (particularly potent) pussycat at serious speeds, then there's something wrong with it, and there are at least 2 others I've experienced similar issues in. And it's probably not a case of "you need Nitrons", or "the Tamora/T350/Tuscan 2 steering rack will fix it", or even "you must have a bent wheel"... it could be something much, much simpler and easier to fix.
The cost of sorting the tyres & alignment out is negligible in the grand scheme of things, but it's taken my car at least from something that was downright unpleasant to drive at speed/times to something truly sublime.
J_S_G said:
I bet I can still run faster round a 360 degree bend though
To be fair, I did have to three-point turn my way around a particularly nasty roundabout on a trading estate the other day.
Why, is your LSD not working
On a serious note, can you clarify the tyres? Are you on Eagle F1 all round now then?
And who was it who finally sorted the geometry? Do you know what they did different from factory settings?
Cheers, Dean
I found similar improvements when I had a really good 4 wheel alainment done, and having replaced all my SO2's last week to 255/35/18 Toyo's all round the tramlining has also vastly improved. High speed stability was helped by fitting the front "S" splitter, I'm seriously looking at the rear spoiler in the near future.
Alan
Alan
deeen said:
On a serious note, can you clarify the tyres? Are you on Eagle F1 all round now then?
And who was it who finally sorted the geometry? Do you know what they did different from factory settings?
Eagle F1s front, S03s rear. To be fair, the S03s have good grip & progressive break-away (helped by a decent side-wall) - suiting the rear nicely. But they're truly shocking on the front end of the car.
The geometry was sorted both by TVR Power and by Central TVR. They both did a great job. (Long story and, again, nothing to do with this!) Think the car's got a little more toe-in than standard now.
To be fair, haven't been in another tuscan since owning mine (2yrs), but did drive about a dozen in order to find mine. You are right, they all drive differently. I have left mine as standard, to be honest, mainly because don't have the cash to go bonkers in the upgrade department, plus, my previous car was a peugeot 306, so even if the tuscan was firing on 3 cylinders, would still have twice the horsepower of the pug...hehehehe.... so don't know whether the engine is maximised. Certainly is faster than boxster S, 996 carrera 2, and 964 RS which I have all driven in last 6 months - but then we all knew that anyway.... so must be in tune...
Mine seems fine driven hard and fast on A or B roads; have been round Goodwood and it was very progressive and smooth; the only thing I would change is the slightly pointy steering (gather they have toned this down on tuscan II); I run toyo proxes 225/35/18 on front, 255/35/18 on rear.
As with any fast car, though, I cannot afford to defy the laws of gravity on cornering, and have had the back end break away under heavy acceleration (in the dry and wet), and also fish tail under very heavy braking at Goodwood.
Seems stable upto 150mph, although a lot of wind noise at that speed (and still accelerating v. fast)
Anyway, putting pennies away for nitrons / red rose upgrade / blueprint / fishy fingers..... whichever arises
Mine seems fine driven hard and fast on A or B roads; have been round Goodwood and it was very progressive and smooth; the only thing I would change is the slightly pointy steering (gather they have toned this down on tuscan II); I run toyo proxes 225/35/18 on front, 255/35/18 on rear.
As with any fast car, though, I cannot afford to defy the laws of gravity on cornering, and have had the back end break away under heavy acceleration (in the dry and wet), and also fish tail under very heavy braking at Goodwood.
Seems stable upto 150mph, although a lot of wind noise at that speed (and still accelerating v. fast)
Anyway, putting pennies away for nitrons / red rose upgrade / blueprint / fishy fingers..... whichever arises
blutusc said:
don't have the cash to go bonkers in the upgrade department
...
the only thing I would change is the slightly pointy steering
...
Anyway, putting pennies away for nitrons / red rose upgrade / blueprint / fishy fingers..... whichever arises
That's the point I was trying to make (albeit in a VERY long-winded fashion)... £100 for a decent geometry job & possibly a switch-round of tyres could improve the handling by an order of magnitude if your car doesn't drive like it's on rails.
If it feels a bit pointy, then that to me would be an issue - have none of that any more - can positively throw it into corners, no need for corrections to steering, etc.
It really is up there with my Elise now (only at twice the speed the K series could ever put out!).
My Red Rose was very twitchy from new until I had the 3D laser wheel alignment done in early 2001 to the factorys Red Rose settings. Made a world of difference. Shame the factory did not bother to do it before it left the factory.
I have had the front lip spoiler fitted as per Cerbera/Griff/Chimp since it was a couple of months old and have never had an issue with high speed stability.
Alans, I'm still on S02's, planning on S03's on the back soon, but might consider 255/35/18 Toyo's all round if they make such a difference??
cheers
Whitey
I have had the front lip spoiler fitted as per Cerbera/Griff/Chimp since it was a couple of months old and have never had an issue with high speed stability.
Alans, I'm still on S02's, planning on S03's on the back soon, but might consider 255/35/18 Toyo's all round if they make such a difference??
cheers
Whitey
The racing development shop (one of the most reputable ones in The Netherlands, does lots of work at OE/importer level, multiple touring car championship winners et cetera) that caters for most things on Saabine had a brand new Tuscan in a couple of months ago because the owner complained of scary handling. What they basically found was that the gemoetry and alignment were all over the place (as well as partly shocking finish on parts that were not immediately visible to the eye). After sorting it out, it was reputedly brilliant to drive.
BTW the importer's demonstrator Tuscan (build date must have been late '02, possibly early '03) that I had disposal of for two days was indeed rather, er, mobile at motorway speeds. Not too bad, but not utterly confidence-inspiring either.
BTW the importer's demonstrator Tuscan (build date must have been late '02, possibly early '03) that I had disposal of for two days was indeed rather, er, mobile at motorway speeds. Not too bad, but not utterly confidence-inspiring either.
James, I discovered this 'tyre' arrangement last year in April, and I was ranting everywhere about it... I've got the patent, all who choose to use this arrangement, royalties must be paid!
I take visa/mastercard and paypal, cheques will only be accepted with a cheque guarantee card!
Joolz is my witness, he fitted my wheel/tyre combo.
For an additional fee...
I will also recommend you fill the tyres with Nitrogen and get a set of race spec lightweight flush-mount valves installed - not the demon-tweaks bling type!
I take visa/mastercard and paypal, cheques will only be accepted with a cheque guarantee card!
Joolz is my witness, he fitted my wheel/tyre combo.
For an additional fee...
I will also recommend you fill the tyres with Nitrogen and get a set of race spec lightweight flush-mount valves installed - not the demon-tweaks bling type!
SXS said:
Joolz is my witness, he fitted my wheel/tyre combo.
If only Joolz had suggested that to me at the time, when he fitted the S03s to the front!
Think I'll actually go for something else on the rear when these wear out... possibly Pilotsports. (although I used to quite like having P-Zeros on the rear on the Elise, so there's another option) SXS said:
I will also recommend you fill the tyres with Nitrogen and get a set of race spec lightweight flush-mount valves installed - not the demon-tweaks bling type!
Now the Tuscan has been totally sorted, I need to start thinking about another project. Whether that's getting more power out of it, or finding a new car to tweak... (That and there's nowhere around here to keep topping the tyres up with Nitrogen)
J_S_G said:
If only Joolz had suggested that to me at the time, when he fitted the S03s to the front!
lol .. yeah shame about Ash bringing his wheels in after you had yours fitted
.. the reasoning was that the factory S tuscans came with that tyre combo .. sadly not a great choice. bugger ..joospeed said:
lol .. yeah shame about Ash bringing his wheels in after you had yours fitted
Not to worry; the lesson's learnt now! Incidentally, that & the second geometry job totally sorted the issues with it feeling completely un-hooked-up, etc, too.
The nitrons made the biggest difference on mine, although the original shocks were probably close to death, followed by the F1s (all round). On the road between Towton and Lotherton I'm about 20mph faster than I was. It also felt fine at about 150 on a local private test track between Leeds and Hull. 
James
Seems like others that my 01 RR has always been a bit twitchy & I have had wheel alignment done in past. I have recently moved to adjustables all round as both TVR front shocks gave up the ghost & needed to be changed. I have the original tyre combination of SO2s all round with 225 x 35 on front & 255 x 35 on rear.
I do need to change the fronts soon & was thinking of the Goodyears. Did you stick with the same 225 x 35 or go to 225(235?) x 40 profile for a little extra wheel protection!
I was also interested in that you has the Tuscan S lip spoiler fitted. How much of a difference did that make in your opinion.
Andy
Seems like others that my 01 RR has always been a bit twitchy & I have had wheel alignment done in past. I have recently moved to adjustables all round as both TVR front shocks gave up the ghost & needed to be changed. I have the original tyre combination of SO2s all round with 225 x 35 on front & 255 x 35 on rear.
I do need to change the fronts soon & was thinking of the Goodyears. Did you stick with the same 225 x 35 or go to 225(235?) x 40 profile for a little extra wheel protection!
I was also interested in that you has the Tuscan S lip spoiler fitted. How much of a difference did that make in your opinion.
Andy
I spoke to the TVR/Morgan manager at the Dutch importer's yesterday, and he remembered the Tuscan that went to Beek Auto Racing. He said the main problem was that the steering rack geometry was 'off'. After fitting it in straight, the rest consisted merely of aligining the thing properly.
He also said the blue Tuscan I drove was indeed not as stable at speed as other ones they delivered to customers. With the Tuscan 2, any stability issues have been completely solved as far as his experience went.
Oh, another thing: of a couple dozen S6-engined TVRs delivered here since early 2003, the Tiv manager reported only one engine out job due to a leaking oil seal. According to him, every single other S6 they sold has been completely trouble-free - no top end rattles, no oil consumption problems, no nothing. The one I drove had close to 20,000 miles on the odo and felt unburstable.
Do TVR do S6 'export versions'?
He also said the blue Tuscan I drove was indeed not as stable at speed as other ones they delivered to customers. With the Tuscan 2, any stability issues have been completely solved as far as his experience went.
Oh, another thing: of a couple dozen S6-engined TVRs delivered here since early 2003, the Tiv manager reported only one engine out job due to a leaking oil seal. According to him, every single other S6 they sold has been completely trouble-free - no top end rattles, no oil consumption problems, no nothing. The one I drove had close to 20,000 miles on the odo and felt unburstable.
Do TVR do S6 'export versions'?
900T-R said:
The racing development shop (one of the most reputable ones in The Netherlands, does lots of work at OE/importer level, multiple touring car championship winners et cetera) that caters for most things on Saabine had a brand new Tuscan in a couple of months ago because the owner complained of scary handling. What they basically found was that the gemoetry and alignment were all over the place (as well as partly shocking finish on parts that were not immediately visible to the eye). After sorting it out, it was reputedly brilliant to drive.
BTW the importer's demonstrator Tuscan (build date must have been late '02, possibly early '03) that I had disposal of for two days was indeed rather, er, mobile at motorway speeds. Not too bad, but not utterly confidence-inspiring either.
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