some good sound advice please..
Discussion
Hello all,
I am about to buy an interesting sports car. looking at the usual suspects up to 40K. Now I am not going to get everyone going about reliability issues or such like
( I figure its a lottery whatever you buy) , but I am interested in peoples point of view and comparisons about driving the things.
There is only so much you can learn when blagging a drive for an hour or so..
Experience? Well I have driven loads of stuff and owned a fair bit ( Elise/ Exige/964/993/996/ Esprit) and I have driven a few Griffs/ Chims, a Tuscan and a Tamora.
I love the TVR style and performance. But the Tuscan I drove had pretty scary handling - when barrelling into bumpy corners it felt really unsettled and I was not sure if it was going to understeer/ oversteer or both at the same time! When trying to get the braking done before turning in ( (911 stylee) I swore that the rear wheels were squirming and threatening to lock up.
I reckon that I am an OK driver. Been on plenty of track days, got some tuition and many , many, many years ago had a racing license,, but I am not some gifted god of a driver or ever think I will be.
Advice please ! Was this a dodgy one? Does the "red rose" malarkey sort this out?
Or should I accept that the car looks simply stunning, goes like stink, but wobbles a bit on corners?
I find myself hesitating after the Tuscan drive ( a friends car which I had to myself for a over Salisbury plains) cos it seemed so unruly. He is not really a "sporty" driver and he thinks its fine.
But I reckon the Elise I had would be quicker point to point..
Problem is that I don't want a Porsche. The Esprit V8 is sooo fast, and handles like it was made in heaven - but its a bit dated. I think the Noble is ugly ( and it does'nt have a boot).
I can't bring myself to buy an M3 - so that leaves a TVR. My mates are Lotus fans and they forever crow about handling, but my heart says buy a TVR !!!
Sensible real life advice from Tuscan drivers who "push it a bit" (in a safe environment of course) would be gratefully received.
Thanks
I am about to buy an interesting sports car. looking at the usual suspects up to 40K. Now I am not going to get everyone going about reliability issues or such like
( I figure its a lottery whatever you buy) , but I am interested in peoples point of view and comparisons about driving the things.
There is only so much you can learn when blagging a drive for an hour or so..
Experience? Well I have driven loads of stuff and owned a fair bit ( Elise/ Exige/964/993/996/ Esprit) and I have driven a few Griffs/ Chims, a Tuscan and a Tamora.
I love the TVR style and performance. But the Tuscan I drove had pretty scary handling - when barrelling into bumpy corners it felt really unsettled and I was not sure if it was going to understeer/ oversteer or both at the same time! When trying to get the braking done before turning in ( (911 stylee) I swore that the rear wheels were squirming and threatening to lock up.
I reckon that I am an OK driver. Been on plenty of track days, got some tuition and many , many, many years ago had a racing license,, but I am not some gifted god of a driver or ever think I will be.
Advice please ! Was this a dodgy one? Does the "red rose" malarkey sort this out?
Or should I accept that the car looks simply stunning, goes like stink, but wobbles a bit on corners?
I find myself hesitating after the Tuscan drive ( a friends car which I had to myself for a over Salisbury plains) cos it seemed so unruly. He is not really a "sporty" driver and he thinks its fine.
But I reckon the Elise I had would be quicker point to point..
Problem is that I don't want a Porsche. The Esprit V8 is sooo fast, and handles like it was made in heaven - but its a bit dated. I think the Noble is ugly ( and it does'nt have a boot).
I can't bring myself to buy an M3 - so that leaves a TVR. My mates are Lotus fans and they forever crow about handling, but my heart says buy a TVR !!!
Sensible real life advice from Tuscan drivers who "push it a bit" (in a safe environment of course) would be gratefully received.
Thanks
Not sure about the Tuscan, but I know TVR dramtically improved the handling of the Cerbera with a new suspension setup in the later half of 2002.
Anyone know if the Tuscan got the same setup?
The Cerbera certainly used to be very unsettled whilst cornering and I've heard the Tuscans had the same issue. I got the suspension upgraded on the Cerbera and it made an incredible difference. Handling was a lot better (and more importantly, more predictable).
You could always buy your Tuscan and get an aftermarket suspension packet if the handlings all you were worried about?
And while you're there... why don't you try a Cerbera !
>> Edited by bandit on Saturday 13th September 19:54
Anyone know if the Tuscan got the same setup?
The Cerbera certainly used to be very unsettled whilst cornering and I've heard the Tuscans had the same issue. I got the suspension upgraded on the Cerbera and it made an incredible difference. Handling was a lot better (and more importantly, more predictable).
You could always buy your Tuscan and get an aftermarket suspension packet if the handlings all you were worried about?
And while you're there... why don't you try a Cerbera !
>> Edited by bandit on Saturday 13th September 19:54
The Tuscan does dive in to corners a fair bit, the back lifts up and can start to feel light!! That is not to say it doesnt corner, because it does, it just doesnt do it as well as a Lotus.
Can anything be done? Not sure, I have heard that Nitron shocks and changed springs canmake a whole world of difference, but since I dont have them I cannot comment.
Joolz of Joospeed fame (www.joospeed.net) offers lots of suspension packages, give him a call and talk through your concerns, he should be able to recommend a setup to suit you and let you know what the Tuscan is doing and what can be done to stop it
Good luck
Graham
Can anything be done? Not sure, I have heard that Nitron shocks and changed springs canmake a whole world of difference, but since I dont have them I cannot comment.
Joolz of Joospeed fame (www.joospeed.net) offers lots of suspension packages, give him a call and talk through your concerns, he should be able to recommend a setup to suit you and let you know what the Tuscan is doing and what can be done to stop it
Good luck
Graham
Standard Tuscan on 18" wheels with standard suspension prior to July 2001 & on 35 profile tyres was known to be a bit twitchy, after this the suspension pick up points were changed along with geometry & tyre profile changes this made them a lot better.The early Red Rose cars had uprated suspension and did not seem to have the same problem.By the sound of it you will be going for a newer car so should not have the early car handling issues well at least until the dampers wear out then best fit a set of Nitrons.
Nick
Nick
I was in the same quandry when it came to buying a new sports car, couldn't live with a Beemer, I like the C4S but after I finished specking it came in well over 70K .
Anyway I bought a Tuscan 3.6 and driving it is such a pleasue I can't begin to describe (toke it for an 8 hour spin yesterday).
As for handleing well I've got a 2003 model and the handling and grip are both outstanding. Having said that on very rough roads it can get a bit out of shape in a way that my friends Boxter dosen't.
I'd set aside £1K for a Nitron suspension upgrade but I don't think it needs it, at least not yet, maybe after a few track days I may change my mind. And the 2003 Tuscan S is suposed to have an uprated suspension package so that should be even more sorted (though the guy at the factory said there were only minor diffrences between the std. and the S).
But methinks you'll be needing the new spec. Tuscan S sir!
Off for a spin,
Michael M.
Anyway I bought a Tuscan 3.6 and driving it is such a pleasue I can't begin to describe (toke it for an 8 hour spin yesterday).
As for handleing well I've got a 2003 model and the handling and grip are both outstanding. Having said that on very rough roads it can get a bit out of shape in a way that my friends Boxter dosen't.
I'd set aside £1K for a Nitron suspension upgrade but I don't think it needs it, at least not yet, maybe after a few track days I may change my mind. And the 2003 Tuscan S is suposed to have an uprated suspension package so that should be even more sorted (though the guy at the factory said there were only minor diffrences between the std. and the S).
But methinks you'll be needing the new spec. Tuscan S sir!
Off for a spin,
Michael M.
Well I have one of those 2003 Tuscan S's and have to say after taking it out at the Keevle Tuscan track day, Simon RO for the Cotswolds region, came along for a few laps (tks for the driving advice Simon too!) he was amazed how good it was on braking and cornering over the older Tuscans! as for me...well I didn't know any different and was amazing at its handling characteristics...if you can buy new then thats your answer.
Alan.
Alan.
I just sold my Elise 111S (with turbotechnics supercharger) which I had for 4 years, in p/x for a Tuscan S.
Fact is, the Tuscan is not as good as the Elise on the road (jumps around quite a bit) & I don't think it ever will be even with Nitrons (Elise has world-class handling, after all) but on the track there is surprisingly little difference on handling. Tuscan is also MUCH quicker on the track thanks to vast power.
Tuscan's a lot more comfy on the road whereas the Elise is a lot more raw. When I had the Elise I was really into the rawness but once you change over you don't miss it!
Porsche was ruled out for me too (only one I would want is the turbo & it's way too expensive), ditto NOble, ditto Esprit.
Fact is, the Tuscan is not as good as the Elise on the road (jumps around quite a bit) & I don't think it ever will be even with Nitrons (Elise has world-class handling, after all) but on the track there is surprisingly little difference on handling. Tuscan is also MUCH quicker on the track thanks to vast power.
Tuscan's a lot more comfy on the road whereas the Elise is a lot more raw. When I had the Elise I was really into the rawness but once you change over you don't miss it!
Porsche was ruled out for me too (only one I would want is the turbo & it's way too expensive), ditto NOble, ditto Esprit.
Well I have an early (2000) Tuscan 4.0l with the original suspension setup.
I guess it's fair to say I push the car around (in the dry anyway - I'm extremely gentle with her in the wet though, as you have to be). I also went on a RideDrive session on Saturday for 8 hours hurtling around the countryside (and an hour on an airfield).
I empathise with the issue of perceived road-holding on bumpy roads. This is in my view the one weakness of the car - it feels too setup for race conditions and bumps feed through into the steering very dramatically at times. If you keep the steering quite loose though, it does correct itself very quickly.
I've had the car since February and I've yet to feel it wasn't secure on the road when bumps weren't involved. I actually find that bumps around corners don't seem to affect the car very much as you're putting positive steering in at that point, so I notice little effect. On straight B roads though, it's just best to stay out of the ruts if you can.
Judging ftom the hour or so on the airfield on Saturday, the car is either neutral or slightly understeering in the dry. (Neutral to the right and understeers a bit on left turns). It is however very easy to correct this I've found. Simply back off a little and everything sorts itself out for you.
We had to push it very very hard to get any oversteer out of my car on the airfield. In the wet I've managed to make it do this a little, but only when I was actively trying for it in a carpark or an empty roundabout.
I haven't driven a Griff or a Chimaera, but I've passengered in them, so take my comments here with a little more salt. I felt that the Tuscan stuck to the road better, with less body movement than either of the other 2.
When the weight shifts in those 2 (and in a 911 I regularly passenger in), there's a more dramatic shift which I felt increased the instability slightly. Whereas with my tuscan that feeling when the weight shifts out to the rear-outside wheel is less severe, so it doesn't seem to have much effect on the handling of the car as you're pushing around a bend.
Sounds like you have the right approach in advance anyway - get all the braking, gear change etc out of the way before you have to invoke any steering shifts and I've found the tuscan to be well and truly solid on the road thus far.
Other than the 'bump-steering', there's nothing I'd change about mine anyway & I'm told that later models (post 2001 I think) have a different geometry setup for the suspension which has improved that.
Martin
I guess it's fair to say I push the car around (in the dry anyway - I'm extremely gentle with her in the wet though, as you have to be). I also went on a RideDrive session on Saturday for 8 hours hurtling around the countryside (and an hour on an airfield).
I empathise with the issue of perceived road-holding on bumpy roads. This is in my view the one weakness of the car - it feels too setup for race conditions and bumps feed through into the steering very dramatically at times. If you keep the steering quite loose though, it does correct itself very quickly.
I've had the car since February and I've yet to feel it wasn't secure on the road when bumps weren't involved. I actually find that bumps around corners don't seem to affect the car very much as you're putting positive steering in at that point, so I notice little effect. On straight B roads though, it's just best to stay out of the ruts if you can.
Judging ftom the hour or so on the airfield on Saturday, the car is either neutral or slightly understeering in the dry. (Neutral to the right and understeers a bit on left turns). It is however very easy to correct this I've found. Simply back off a little and everything sorts itself out for you.
We had to push it very very hard to get any oversteer out of my car on the airfield. In the wet I've managed to make it do this a little, but only when I was actively trying for it in a carpark or an empty roundabout.
I haven't driven a Griff or a Chimaera, but I've passengered in them, so take my comments here with a little more salt. I felt that the Tuscan stuck to the road better, with less body movement than either of the other 2.
When the weight shifts in those 2 (and in a 911 I regularly passenger in), there's a more dramatic shift which I felt increased the instability slightly. Whereas with my tuscan that feeling when the weight shifts out to the rear-outside wheel is less severe, so it doesn't seem to have much effect on the handling of the car as you're pushing around a bend.
Sounds like you have the right approach in advance anyway - get all the braking, gear change etc out of the way before you have to invoke any steering shifts and I've found the tuscan to be well and truly solid on the road thus far.
Other than the 'bump-steering', there's nothing I'd change about mine anyway & I'm told that later models (post 2001 I think) have a different geometry setup for the suspension which has improved that.
Martin
toppstuff said:I agree with you on this one. I think the standard Tuscan is under sprung and not very well damped. There is also some unsettling bumpsteer in there to add to the experience. I have upgraded the dampers to Nitrons and the car is a lot more stable in bumpy corners.
But the Tuscan I drove had pretty scary handling - when barrelling into bumpy corners it felt really unsettled and I was not sure if it was going to understeer/ oversteer or both at the same time!
topstuff said:Also agree here. For me, when braking hard on track it felt like the backend was really trying to overtake - it was getting really light and floaty. A vid of me braking into the hairpin showed a huge amount of front end dive and rear end lift. The uprated springs on the Nitrons have improved this considerably, but I haven't had a chance to evaluate them on track yet.
When trying to get the braking done before turning in ( (911 stylee) I swore that the rear wheels were squirming and threatening to lock up.
topstuff said:I reckon so too. I have driven in company with Elises on a few occasions and they would easily get away from me on bumpy twisty roads. Yet to make a side to side comparison since I fitted the Nitrons.
But I reckon the Elise I had would be quicker point to point..
So for a reasonable investment you might be able to get the looks and good handling.
I moved from an Elise S1 (Feb/1998) to a Tuscan Red Rose (July/2000) and now to a Tuscan S (Mar/2003). All of them have been my only car and used every day.
Having been spoilt by the handling of the Lotus which was terrific, when I first test drove a Tuscan (very early dealer demo in late 1999) I was totally unimpressed. It actually felt a bit scary and I ended up paying the extra £4,200 for the Red Rose pack.
This went a long way to correcting the unruliness and providing I made sure that I was properly set up before a corner the handling was spot on in both high speed and moderate speed corners.
Some of the early Red Rose cars came out of the factory with poor wheel alignment, which buggered the handling, and mine was still unsettled on heavy braking and sometimes gave a real heart in mouth feeling. However, it always managed what I had asked of it without a trip into the scenery.
Whist I am certainly no expert, I do enjoy “making progress” and it took me a while to get used to the Tuscan. The big difference I found was that in the Elise you could get away without being smooth and come out of each corner with a smile on your face. It was a very flattering car to drive fast whereas the Tuscan made me feel that I was the weakest link in the whole driving experience. Having said that and without any doubt on my favourite roads it was much faster than my Standard Elise.
My new S has the revised suspension pick up points and feels great. It is an awesome car to drive and just gets better and better. Simple physics mean that it’s still not as chuckable as the Elise but it is in a totally different performance league.
I would recommend you go for a new Tuscan S, but then again I would wouldn’t I!!
Having been spoilt by the handling of the Lotus which was terrific, when I first test drove a Tuscan (very early dealer demo in late 1999) I was totally unimpressed. It actually felt a bit scary and I ended up paying the extra £4,200 for the Red Rose pack.
This went a long way to correcting the unruliness and providing I made sure that I was properly set up before a corner the handling was spot on in both high speed and moderate speed corners.
Some of the early Red Rose cars came out of the factory with poor wheel alignment, which buggered the handling, and mine was still unsettled on heavy braking and sometimes gave a real heart in mouth feeling. However, it always managed what I had asked of it without a trip into the scenery.
Whist I am certainly no expert, I do enjoy “making progress” and it took me a while to get used to the Tuscan. The big difference I found was that in the Elise you could get away without being smooth and come out of each corner with a smile on your face. It was a very flattering car to drive fast whereas the Tuscan made me feel that I was the weakest link in the whole driving experience. Having said that and without any doubt on my favourite roads it was much faster than my Standard Elise.
My new S has the revised suspension pick up points and feels great. It is an awesome car to drive and just gets better and better. Simple physics mean that it’s still not as chuckable as the Elise but it is in a totally different performance league.
I would recommend you go for a new Tuscan S, but then again I would wouldn’t I!!
I can say that the Tuscan S is a bit shit on the bumpy corners and dives under heavy braking but then I am probably a bit shit myself.
I was recommended the Nitrons and while I never bought them, I would have done if time and funds permitted.
Also, MAKE SURE YOU GET IT LASER ALIGNED! You wouldn't believe the difference this makes to the car when steering and applying power out of a bend. Feels like a new car!
My car was built in May 02 so maybe there are some key differences now.
PS, If you want awesome handling and some wind in your hair, my money is on the T350T but then I'm extremely fortunate enough to have owned a Tuscan!
I was recommended the Nitrons and while I never bought them, I would have done if time and funds permitted.
Also, MAKE SURE YOU GET IT LASER ALIGNED! You wouldn't believe the difference this makes to the car when steering and applying power out of a bend. Feels like a new car!
My car was built in May 02 so maybe there are some key differences now.
PS, If you want awesome handling and some wind in your hair, my money is on the T350T but then I'm extremely fortunate enough to have owned a Tuscan!
Thanks for all the terrific feedback ! I have been away working for a few days, and just getting back to find so much creative, honest and constructive advice is a pleasure indeed !
The Tuscan I drove is an early one ( on an x plate I think ) and i can well believe that the S model and other later versions handle better. I have received an offer to try the new model.
I think half the pleasure of owning a special car is the sense of getting wrapped up in the ownership experience. Hearing so much positive and enthusiastic debate makes me warm to the idea of TVR ownership.
I hope to try a newer car very soon ( and maybe a T350 - I gather a targa version is available now) and I'll post some thoughts and my eventual purchase decision.
Thanks again !
The Tuscan I drove is an early one ( on an x plate I think ) and i can well believe that the S model and other later versions handle better. I have received an offer to try the new model.
I think half the pleasure of owning a special car is the sense of getting wrapped up in the ownership experience. Hearing so much positive and enthusiastic debate makes me warm to the idea of TVR ownership.
I hope to try a newer car very soon ( and maybe a T350 - I gather a targa version is available now) and I'll post some thoughts and my eventual purchase decision.
Thanks again !
I test drove the T350C and was very impressed - it does handle much better than the Tuscans.
However ... it has this thing called a roof which I didn't want (but which is probably the main reason why it handles better!). It got a bit hot and sticky in the cabin too.
I also thought about the T400T but didn't want a targa roof either.
However ... it has this thing called a roof which I didn't want (but which is probably the main reason why it handles better!). It got a bit hot and sticky in the cabin too.
I also thought about the T400T but didn't want a targa roof either.
Hi all,
As a potential Tuscan owner, I received lots of good advice from you guys about what I might expect if I bought one of your stunning machines.
As i promised to post some feedback on my decision, here goes.
I guess the nature of the site is that I am preaching to the converted, but I'll try and offer some objective 'outside looking in " observations.
Plus points: Well the Tuscan really is the most stunningly styled car on the road IMO. And the interior is equally gorgeous. Whoever styled the car deserves the same accolades as Giugiaro, Bertone et al..
Engine - awesome. Major grunt, huge torque, awesome noise.
Handling - OK, and this is where I have the problem.
Without kicking off the whole "computer aids vs human responsibility" debate again and risk a flaming, I must say that from my point of view I have a problem with the total lack of any traction controls or ABS.
The overwhelming evidence from smart men in white coats is that these things work and save lives. Granted, 99% of the time they make no difference, but that 1% might just save a life. I am not referring to if it saves my life or not ( after all I would have chosen to drive the car ) but if it saves the life of a passenger or another road user that ABS allowed me to avoid hitting, then it is definitely worth having.
I think many people accept that the Tuscan is not the best handling car on the road and can be a bit of a handful. If the Tuscan had these devices (especially if they could be switched off) then I would rush out and buy one right now.
They do not, so I'll buy a Carrera 4 instead.
However, let me sign off by saluting all you Tuscan drivers.
I will always look twice whenever I see one, and I know that a knot inside of me will kind of wish that I should have bought one.
But even though I am a reasonably experienced driver, and even though I know that I can take personal responsibility, I still have that worry about barreling around a corner to find a horse in the road , a slippery surface, and a car coming the other way. I just reckon that in the heat of the situation, any help ABS and PSM can give would be appreciated, and might save a life.
So while I truly respect the Tuscan and all who drive them, and a part of me will remain deeply jealous of you all, I guess it's just not for me.
A sale lost to TVR? Yes, but I think they'll do fine anyway.
But the Tuscan does truly rock....
As you had all responded so positively ( and the TVR community is way cooler that any other on PH , IMHO ) , I wanted to pay the respect of letting you know my decision rather than just disappear. And if it gets some discussion going, then I guess there is no harm in that.
Thanks to you all. If you see a 996 Carrera 4 driver waving or admiring your motor ( in silver - and yes I know they are as common as muck..) in the Bath area then please be nice to me....
As a potential Tuscan owner, I received lots of good advice from you guys about what I might expect if I bought one of your stunning machines.
As i promised to post some feedback on my decision, here goes.
I guess the nature of the site is that I am preaching to the converted, but I'll try and offer some objective 'outside looking in " observations.
Plus points: Well the Tuscan really is the most stunningly styled car on the road IMO. And the interior is equally gorgeous. Whoever styled the car deserves the same accolades as Giugiaro, Bertone et al..
Engine - awesome. Major grunt, huge torque, awesome noise.
Handling - OK, and this is where I have the problem.
Without kicking off the whole "computer aids vs human responsibility" debate again and risk a flaming, I must say that from my point of view I have a problem with the total lack of any traction controls or ABS.
The overwhelming evidence from smart men in white coats is that these things work and save lives. Granted, 99% of the time they make no difference, but that 1% might just save a life. I am not referring to if it saves my life or not ( after all I would have chosen to drive the car ) but if it saves the life of a passenger or another road user that ABS allowed me to avoid hitting, then it is definitely worth having.
I think many people accept that the Tuscan is not the best handling car on the road and can be a bit of a handful. If the Tuscan had these devices (especially if they could be switched off) then I would rush out and buy one right now.
They do not, so I'll buy a Carrera 4 instead.
However, let me sign off by saluting all you Tuscan drivers.
I will always look twice whenever I see one, and I know that a knot inside of me will kind of wish that I should have bought one.
But even though I am a reasonably experienced driver, and even though I know that I can take personal responsibility, I still have that worry about barreling around a corner to find a horse in the road , a slippery surface, and a car coming the other way. I just reckon that in the heat of the situation, any help ABS and PSM can give would be appreciated, and might save a life.
So while I truly respect the Tuscan and all who drive them, and a part of me will remain deeply jealous of you all, I guess it's just not for me.
A sale lost to TVR? Yes, but I think they'll do fine anyway.
But the Tuscan does truly rock....
As you had all responded so positively ( and the TVR community is way cooler that any other on PH , IMHO ) , I wanted to pay the respect of letting you know my decision rather than just disappear. And if it gets some discussion going, then I guess there is no harm in that.
Thanks to you all. If you see a 996 Carrera 4 driver waving or admiring your motor ( in silver - and yes I know they are as common as muck..) in the Bath area then please be nice to me....
Thanks, wise words,
No car can make up for duff driving, but at least I'll get what maybe an added safety net.
But compared to a Tusc, the 996 is so dull. I wonder how long it'll keep my interest...
Perhaps until TVR offer ABS in order to satisfy the US market ! I'll then be a very happy bunny and give Mr Wheeler all my money !!!
No car can make up for duff driving, but at least I'll get what maybe an added safety net.
But compared to a Tusc, the 996 is so dull. I wonder how long it'll keep my interest...
Perhaps until TVR offer ABS in order to satisfy the US market ! I'll then be a very happy bunny and give Mr Wheeler all my money !!!
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