RE: New MOT regs - Do you need to panic?
Discussion
mat777 said:
The thing about loose wires....have they ever seen how a Land rover is wired up? the headlight wires dangle under the wings and the wash/wipe motor wires are all loose as well. How does one go about arguing that its standard like that?
At least there's no electronic gismos or annoying dash lights to go wrong...only a sticky fuel gauge downthepub said:
Bit bugged about the airbag thing, I'm in the middle of prepping my truck for some offroad action. Whilst it is modified, lift, armour, etc, it's also being kept at a comfort level that it can be used as a daily driver. I'm not mad on the idea of hitting some harsh terrain with an active airbag in front of my noggin so am hoping with the demonstrable mods, they'd let a disabled airbag go.
Get a wheel without an airbag for it - no bag, no fail. If it's modified with lift etc then it's going to fall under the same regs as the track cars etc.I was fascinated to read the comments by many PH posters which clearly indicated that some had not read the PH article thoroughly. In addition I wrote an article in the February edition of TRACKDRIVER which raised a number of questions about how the revised MOT affected cars modified for Track use – some questions of which remain unanswered. In this post I will try to put some sense into the tangled situation as it currently stands.
I have a Clio 172 Cup which I use at Track Days and drive on the road [mainly to and from events]. The car is taxed and insured; has an MOT and contains a full roll cage, fixed Cobra driving and passenger seats, full harness belts, a MOMO steering wheel and the rear passenger seats have been removed. Because the seat belt pre-tensioners and airbag have been removed the MIL lamp and service lamp are permanently illuminated. As it stands the car is totally at variance with the new regulations!
I submitted the car to K-tec Racing at Verwood who passed the car and I have a new one-year MOT certificate. The advisory information on the MOT certificate now state:
Driver’s seat is fixed but has proper rally seats and harness.
No rear seats or seatbelts fitted at time of test.
The two advisory notes were agreed with VOSA and are now a permanent part of this car’s documentation. The lack of airbag, pre-tensioners and illuminated MIL did not cause a failure as that part of the new regulations has yet to be implemented. It is not currently clear whether a track vehicle that has removed airbag and pre-tensioners – yet the MIL shines brightly will pass or fail when the regulations are implemented – although VOSA appear to be prepared to treat purpose built track cars more leniently – again how this will affect cars that are not defined as a track car but have aftermarket seats or steering wheels is not clear – but I suspect that proper conversions will be looked at kindly. It is possible to insert resisters in the wiring to the electronics and this may turn-off the MIL, but the legality of this has yet to be established. However, removing bulbs, taping over MIL lamps and trying to fudge the test in other devious ways will definitely ensure a failure!!
Here are some rules that may help PHs affected by the above:
1. Keep an eye on the situation and get your MOT done before the new regs are implemented – at least this buys you time.
2. Take your car to a race/rally specialist that also do MOTs – they are more likely to know what is legal and what ain’t.
3. Get your MOT station to log conversions on your MOT record so that a permanent record is kept.
4. In case of disagreement where you think you have a strong case [don’t be silly over this] ask your MOT station to contact VOSA for a ruling.
I have a Clio 172 Cup which I use at Track Days and drive on the road [mainly to and from events]. The car is taxed and insured; has an MOT and contains a full roll cage, fixed Cobra driving and passenger seats, full harness belts, a MOMO steering wheel and the rear passenger seats have been removed. Because the seat belt pre-tensioners and airbag have been removed the MIL lamp and service lamp are permanently illuminated. As it stands the car is totally at variance with the new regulations!
I submitted the car to K-tec Racing at Verwood who passed the car and I have a new one-year MOT certificate. The advisory information on the MOT certificate now state:
Driver’s seat is fixed but has proper rally seats and harness.
No rear seats or seatbelts fitted at time of test.
The two advisory notes were agreed with VOSA and are now a permanent part of this car’s documentation. The lack of airbag, pre-tensioners and illuminated MIL did not cause a failure as that part of the new regulations has yet to be implemented. It is not currently clear whether a track vehicle that has removed airbag and pre-tensioners – yet the MIL shines brightly will pass or fail when the regulations are implemented – although VOSA appear to be prepared to treat purpose built track cars more leniently – again how this will affect cars that are not defined as a track car but have aftermarket seats or steering wheels is not clear – but I suspect that proper conversions will be looked at kindly. It is possible to insert resisters in the wiring to the electronics and this may turn-off the MIL, but the legality of this has yet to be established. However, removing bulbs, taping over MIL lamps and trying to fudge the test in other devious ways will definitely ensure a failure!!
Here are some rules that may help PHs affected by the above:
1. Keep an eye on the situation and get your MOT done before the new regs are implemented – at least this buys you time.
2. Take your car to a race/rally specialist that also do MOTs – they are more likely to know what is legal and what ain’t.
3. Get your MOT station to log conversions on your MOT record so that a permanent record is kept.
4. In case of disagreement where you think you have a strong case [don’t be silly over this] ask your MOT station to contact VOSA for a ruling.
Edited by Selrak on Thursday 29th March 12:28
voltage_maxx said:
Bluescore said:
What it doesn't mention is if the MOT covers checking the bulb for the airbag/esp/abs warning light 
Few minutes ( or hours depending on the car) behind the dash and it'll sail through that part of the test.
Exactly my thoughts Few minutes ( or hours depending on the car) behind the dash and it'll sail through that part of the test.
A previous car of mine was fitted with aftermarket management for fueling and ignition, so the engine management light was always on (original ecu was not receiving and information about the engine) so I'm glad I no longer have it, can't see the people who fitted it would be happy with having to carry out lots of retrofitting work to make the aftermarket ECU carry out all the functions of the original one so it could be removed!
article said:
Strictly speaking, the changes have been in place since 1 January, but haven't yet come into full effect. That was expected to happen next month, but the latest word from VOSA is that there's no definite implementation date available.
Seems that some are definitely already in effect, my Eunos failed on the ball-joint dust covers a couple of weeks ago.RE cats, is there a different emissions test for cars without them, or just different targets? Or is it the same targets just with an extra cat fitted/not fitted? I was surprised how low the readings were compared to the allowed limits, for a non-cat 21yo MX-5!
Apologies if this has been discussed (a quick search and couldn't find it mentioned) but the adjustment in drivers seat... surely if the car wasn't ever fitted with adjustment then this isn't applicable? My Ginetta has fixed seats and you can't move them! How much of a problem is this? I usually sit in the car while it's being tested as it's a very specific technique getting into it!
quantum_man said:
Apologies if this has been discussed (a quick search and couldn't find it mentioned) but the adjustment in drivers seat... surely if the car wasn't ever fitted with adjustment then this isn't applicable? My Ginetta has fixed seats and you can't move them! How much of a problem is this? I usually sit in the car while it's being tested as it's a very specific technique getting into it!
In almost all cases, rules and regulations are not applied retrospectively. If the car had fixed seats from new then that part of the test is not applicable. Same goes for ABS, reversing lights, seatbelts, etc. Also, the article specifically mentions fixed seats.
Riggers,
You were lucky if your car passed with a stuck door. My old road rally car failed around 8years ago with stuck rear doors. The fact that there was so much roll cage across the seat that you couldn't use it didn't matter, the seat was there.......
Had to remove it, MOT it, then replace it for the next event.. Oh well.
You were lucky if your car passed with a stuck door. My old road rally car failed around 8years ago with stuck rear doors. The fact that there was so much roll cage across the seat that you couldn't use it didn't matter, the seat was there.......
Had to remove it, MOT it, then replace it for the next event.. Oh well.
Selrak said:
information and stuff
Good post Selrak, useful information in there.Many of the point are obviously related to race/rally cars, however my car has an intermittent as yet unidentifiable fault relating to the airbag. As I read it in the new VOSA rules, if the issue isn't fixed by next march when the new MOT is due, and if the light is indeed illuminated it will result in a failure. I don¡¦t think VOSA will make an exception on my car given the information I have, or lack thereof, on the fault. The MOT guys take on it when I spoke to him was that I will indeed fail, unless I get lucky and the light stays off as it does when the car warms up.
I see me being stuck in a sort of limbo with this, I can't simply take out the fuse for the airbag to get it through the test, as that's a fail. I can try and fit an aftermarket steering wheel that is without an airbag and hope the tester sees it as a suitable modification, otherwise I believe it will fail for not now having a driver's airbag.
I guess my only hope/option is to trade in a perfectly good 12year old Focus before next year's test is due, if the fault still can't be identified
I'm not expecting you to give me the answers btw,
TankRS said:
Many of the point are obviously related to race/rally cars, however my car has an intermittent as yet unidentifiable fault relating to the airbag. As I read it in the new VOSA rules, if the issue isn't fixed by next march when the new MOT is due, and if the light is indeed illuminated it will result in a failure.
Had that been your ABS then that would be have been a failure years ago. So it's not entirely inconsistent for them to now extend that to airbags too. TankRS said:
I guess my only hope/option is to trade in a perfectly good 12year old Focus before next year's test is due, if the fault still can't be identified
Not necessarily. The Focus is so ubiquitous that you should be able to pick up whatever part it is that is defective from a breaker's yard, surely?JonRB said:
TankRS said:
I guess my only hope/option is to trade in a perfectly good 12year old Focus before next year's test is due, if the fault still can't be identified
Not necessarily. The Focus is so ubiquitous that you should be able to pick up whatever part it is that is defective from a breaker's yard, surely?On this headlamp thing (washers and levelling). My Evo was brought into the country officially by Mitsubishi but was SVA'd as there's no EU whole type approval. (This goes for as all Evo 8's except the 260). It has HID with levelling but no washers. Assume the car's not now been outlawed?! lol
TankRS said:
we cant find the fault, despite it being on a Ford diagnostic machine twice
There is a Ford technical helpline, you can seek advice from the factory on a telephone line at now I think about a pound a minute.If you take the car to a Ford dealer to have a fault repaired which makes the vehicle technically unroadworthy, they have a responsibility in conjuction with support from the manufacturer to arrive at a repair solution and quote a repair price it is their diagnostic system, by substituting new parts if necessary. Is the Ford dealer telling you the car is unrepairable ?
To be brutally honest I don’t think MOT revisions has tackled any of its problems, clarified any of MOT testers discretions or attempted to make any cars safer, we still have one of the easiest vehicle tests in the EU, other countries are more like extended SVA each year.
I like to see MOT testers allowed to physically inspect areas of structural integrity to force the death traps off the road rather than pissing about with lights on the dashboard.
I like to see MOT testers allowed to physically inspect areas of structural integrity to force the death traps off the road rather than pissing about with lights on the dashboard.
RTH said:
There is a Ford technical helpline, you can seek advice from the factory on a telephone line at now I think about a pound a minute.
If you take the car to a Ford dealer to have a fault repaired which makes the vehicle technically unroadworthy, they have a responsibility in conjuction with support from the manufacturer to arrive at a repair solution and quote a repair price it is their diagnostic system, by substituting new parts if necessary. Is the Ford dealer telling you the car is unrepairable ?
cheers mate, no they aren't saying its unrepairable. they keep saying the fault needs to develop further before the diagnostic machine can identify the exact cause of it. at the moment the light illuminates from start. But will go off once the car has warmed up, just pulling over, switching off then straight back on and no light comes back on.If you take the car to a Ford dealer to have a fault repaired which makes the vehicle technically unroadworthy, they have a responsibility in conjuction with support from the manufacturer to arrive at a repair solution and quote a repair price it is their diagnostic system, by substituting new parts if necessary. Is the Ford dealer telling you the car is unrepairable ?
I’ve even left it overnight with the garage last time so they could put it on ‘cold’ first thing in the morning, but still the fault couldn’t be traced.
Tbh im not massively worried about it as only I drive this car, and rarely have passengers, so if I were to have an accident and either driver or passenger airbag failed to deploy due to the fault, I wouldn’t be as worried about it as opposed to using it daily with kids in the car.
(i do realise i've somewhat hijacked the thread with my faulty focus!
)I am more concerned about the steering lock. Used to race the MORGAN +8 and still do the odd sprint and hillclimb. Steering lock is "broken" to comply with MSA rules. Had the car MOT'd this week. Unsure if it will get picked up next year on a 33 year old car. I will say locking steering was an optional extra.
magpies said:
this is a problem when motorsport outlaw 'road worthy items' and make you substitute MSA or FIA items which are deemed not roadworthy (mostly a problem with group N or roadrally).
Full Harnesses
Disabled Steering Locks
Fixed seats
Air Bags
ABS
in place or removed rear seats
No it isn't. Because as discussed the restrictions won't be applied to properly modified racing cars.Full Harnesses
Disabled Steering Locks
Fixed seats
Air Bags
ABS
in place or removed rear seats
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