RE: Time Up for Uninsured Drivers
Discussion
berkorich said:
Benefit to the government is that is costs them feck all to make it look like they are actually doing something.
Quite. This government aren't actually interested in running the country, but being seen to be appearing to run the country.Thus being seen to be doing something about uninsured drivers is far more important to them than actually doing anything about uninsured drivers.
thewilfmeister said:
so if the price of fuel included third party who do you think would payout for your accidents??? the government? shell?? BP?? Pahhh i dont bloody think so!
You don't really understand insurance, do you?It would be underwritten like any other insurance policy, funded by the premiums taken in the form of a percentage of the price of the fuel.
Edited by JonRB on Tuesday 20th January 16:03
pdV6 said:
tinman0 said:
BootLace said:
"Current law only punishes people for driving an uninsured vehicle".
I had an old X1/9 parked up uninsured 20ft from the road, but technically still on her majesty's highway. The battery was flat and the brakes seized, following a plea of guilty (advised by two seperate lawyers), I received an IN10, 5pts and a small fine+costs. Driving in my case was not a prerequisite for punishment.
The actual law says something along the lines of "use the vehicle", but "use" can be interpreted as "has the use of" as well as "using" (apparently).
I don't get it. Are you telling only half the story or something? Did you upset a cop?I had an old X1/9 parked up uninsured 20ft from the road, but technically still on her majesty's highway. The battery was flat and the brakes seized, following a plea of guilty (advised by two seperate lawyers), I received an IN10, 5pts and a small fine+costs. Driving in my case was not a prerequisite for punishment.
The actual law says something along the lines of "use the vehicle", but "use" can be interpreted as "has the use of" as well as "using" (apparently).
You were parked on the (wide) verge, 20ft away from the tarmac? If so, then it's technically still "on the road" and therefore needs taxing. Can't understand the IN10 though, as currently it's not an offence to leave an uninsured car parked up on the road? Or have I misunderstood the point of the new legislation?
For reference, assuming the google map aerial image hasn't been updated, the silver car in the centre is about where I was parked. I was slightly tighter to the wall, so I guess 12ft from the main carriageway would be more accurate, although technically irrelevant, as the garden wall delineates private property from public highway.
It was a Saturday in a rather cold winter. There was as layer of snow outside, up to two inches on the X1/9 that hadn't moved for a couple of months (since the tax/insurance had expired). At midday, I was still lying in bed suffering from a bad cold, when I heard the doorbell. I opened the door to find a solitary policeman standing before me.
(not actual quotes, but pretty much as I remember the exchange occurring)
"Is that your car outside sir?" enquired the law keeper.
"Yes", I replied.
"Do you realise the tax has expired?"
"Yes", I replied again, as I gestured the officer in and began to move to the kitchen.
"I assume that you have no insurance either." said as a statement rather than a question.
"Well, the car's not being used and is off the road, so I didn't think I needed either".
"Her majesty's highway doesn't stop at the kerb."
"The brakes are seized, but I could get some help to move the car to the garage or driveway." I offered as a genuine solution to the issue.
"Unfortunately, the offence has already been committed. You'll still need to get the car moved though, or taxed/insured". I was then informed of my need to produce my documents at the local station, then the officer continued in a slightly less pragmatic tone. "I've seen the car a few times while passing, I've always quite fancied one. Normally I wouldn't be over here, but I've a little cold and decided to walk the beat to get some fresh air." (he'd actually had to wipe snow from the windscreen to discover the tax was expired)
Possibly of interest, the policeman was from Brierly Hill station, but I produced my documents at Dudley station. When it came to court, I actually had two charges for the invalid tax, with 1 second seperating the time of offence. Common sense prevailed and one count was struck off, the court announcing something along the lines of it not being particularly reasonable to fine someone for every individual second the offence is being committed. For some reason, I always find that somewhat amusing.
As for the insurance, the court highlighted that it was being as lenient as it can be, expressing the belief that it was a genuine error (iirc, giving me the minimum 6pts from a possible 6-8pts for the offence, and a fine of about £150 which could've been about 10x as much based on disposable income as a guide). The charge was something along the lines of "Using a vehicle whilst uninsured for third party liability", and I explained that I was hadn't driven the vehicle whilst uninsured, and that the car was effectively immobile, to which the court informed me that using/use has more than one connotation.
Reading some of the rediculous comments on here make me realise how stupid some PH'ers are! 
This can only be a good thing, as someone who has been hit by an uninsured driver I know.
If your car is off the road & SORN'ed it's not affected!
There may be a handfull of people that may seem hard done by but as a gerneral rule it's a good law.
This can only be a good thing, as someone who has been hit by an uninsured driver I know.
If your car is off the road & SORN'ed it's not affected!
There may be a handfull of people that may seem hard done by but as a gerneral rule it's a good law.
Hold on, this article makes no sense.
First, its talking about laws regarding insurance for vehicles that are taxed, but not being driven.
Then goes on to say that uninsured drivers add costs.
We're not talking about uninsured drivers are we, I thought it was just people who have a car taxed, don't use and don't insure it.
I think I've got the wrong end of the stick here.
First, its talking about laws regarding insurance for vehicles that are taxed, but not being driven.
Then goes on to say that uninsured drivers add costs.
We're not talking about uninsured drivers are we, I thought it was just people who have a car taxed, don't use and don't insure it.
I think I've got the wrong end of the stick here.
Cerberus90 said:
Hold on, this article makes no sense.
First, its talking about laws regarding insurance for vehicles that are taxed, but not being driven.
Then goes on to say that uninsured drivers add costs.
We're not talking about uninsured drivers are we, I thought it was just people who have a car taxed, don't use and don't insure it.
I think I've got the wrong end of the stick here.
Sort of.First, its talking about laws regarding insurance for vehicles that are taxed, but not being driven.
Then goes on to say that uninsured drivers add costs.
We're not talking about uninsured drivers are we, I thought it was just people who have a car taxed, don't use and don't insure it.
I think I've got the wrong end of the stick here.
The crux of it is, it will now become an offence to own a taxed car that isn't insured. Previously it was only an offence if you DROVE a car without insurance. Now its an offence to tax if, allow the insurance to lapse and lock it in the garage for 6 months. The get out is to declare it SORN.
Lordbenny said:
Reading some of the rediculous comments on here make me realise how stupid some PH'ers are!
This can only be a good thing, as someone who has been hit by an uninsured driver I know.
If your car is off the road & SORN'ed it's not affected!
There may be a handfull of people that may seem hard done by but as a gerneral rule it's a good law.
I think what's given most people the hump is that there's no need for this. This can only be a good thing, as someone who has been hit by an uninsured driver I know.
If your car is off the road & SORN'ed it's not affected!
There may be a handfull of people that may seem hard done by but as a gerneral rule it's a good law.
If the car's seen on the road and is picked up by ANPR then it will be flagged as uninsured - job done.
If it's not on the road but is still taxed but uninsured then the RK is not comitting an offence so shouldn't be fined.
Its all very well saying it's fine, just SORN it...when in reality all that means is you lose the balance of the months tax and have to go throgh the process of getting tax again when you return the car to use.
Personally, my main car and my bike come off the road when it starts to get icy, anywhere between late Nov and mid-Dec; I'll use them again probably mid-feb when it warms up. In the meantime i transfer the insurance to my old banger.
Now under the new system I'll have to SORN both, lose the balance of the value of tax for Nov/Dec and again pay for all of feb whilst only using it for half the month; and with all the SORN notices and tax applications going back and forth something is bound to get lost in the post...and who will get the fine i wonder??
There could be a case for arguing why can't I insure my 2nd car at a reasonable price (using my no claims entitlement - after all I can only be driving one at a time!)) and then keep both insured...but no, that would be too simple.
Its nothing more than a stupid meddling government looking to create hidden taxes and justify jobs for over-paid, under-worked civil servants...as ususal!
Personally, my main car and my bike come off the road when it starts to get icy, anywhere between late Nov and mid-Dec; I'll use them again probably mid-feb when it warms up. In the meantime i transfer the insurance to my old banger.
Now under the new system I'll have to SORN both, lose the balance of the value of tax for Nov/Dec and again pay for all of feb whilst only using it for half the month; and with all the SORN notices and tax applications going back and forth something is bound to get lost in the post...and who will get the fine i wonder??
There could be a case for arguing why can't I insure my 2nd car at a reasonable price (using my no claims entitlement - after all I can only be driving one at a time!)) and then keep both insured...but no, that would be too simple.
Its nothing more than a stupid meddling government looking to create hidden taxes and justify jobs for over-paid, under-worked civil servants...as ususal!
Some good comments, and like many have said before....read the article. If you are not using the vehicle, and the insurance has expired, SORN it. It takes all of 5 mins or less, and can be done from the comfort of your PC. You normally get a letter of confirmation about a week or so later in the post.
When you want to put the vehicle on the road again, simply re insure it and re tax it (for which you`ll need an MOT and insurance of some sort).
The only problem in the system is the DVLA, who are at best incompetant. We register a lot of vehicles at work, and they are forever getting the details wrong (their English might not be too good for instance?), but luckily on a personal level they have always been efficient.
When you want to put the vehicle on the road again, simply re insure it and re tax it (for which you`ll need an MOT and insurance of some sort).
The only problem in the system is the DVLA, who are at best incompetant. We register a lot of vehicles at work, and they are forever getting the details wrong (their English might not be too good for instance?), but luckily on a personal level they have always been efficient.
pdV6 said:
Mondeohdear said:
Does anybody have any idea how this will apply to motorcycle rider policies?
Why would it be any different?king arthur said:
What if you've just changed your car, changed the insurance over and are now trying to sell the old one. If you declare SORN, prospective buyers can't take it for a test drive, but if you don't, you get fined. Get out of that one...
Not really any different, as it would have to be taxed and insured anyway in order to be taken for a test drive.Gassing Station | Motoring News | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff