Wednesday 9th October 2002
Audi RS6
Fighter-jet fast but supertanker handling?
Discussion
What a crock of crap!
How long did Bob Fandango spend in said RS6?? 5 minutes? A couple of hours? And on what roads did it thrash along?? The Wrynose pass??
I have been furtunate enough to spend a couple of weeks living with an RS6 and it proved, by far, to be one of the most memorable cars I've driven. Well, this side of a Ford F-150 Lightening that is.
The Audi also broke all records on my regular test route in terms of average speed and time from start to finish.
It was a breeze - a lot more comfortable, controlled and collected than the 600bhp Supra which held my previous record on my test route.
Sure, the RS6 IS big. But then the 40v V8 4.2-litre bi-turbo quattro underpinnings are more than capable of scooping it along any B-road with great effect and startling speed both safely and securely.
Bob, son, drive an M5 (yawn) and a S-Type R (hic) and the the RS6 back-yo-back… they you'll be in no doubt which is capable of sucking the other two into it's air filters and squatting them out the tail pipes. M-way, A-road, B-road or test track. Having tried the lot, I'd take the Audi every day of the week. and twice on Sundays.
Tsk… rough ride my arse.
How long did Bob Fandango spend in said RS6?? 5 minutes? A couple of hours? And on what roads did it thrash along?? The Wrynose pass??
I have been furtunate enough to spend a couple of weeks living with an RS6 and it proved, by far, to be one of the most memorable cars I've driven. Well, this side of a Ford F-150 Lightening that is.
The Audi also broke all records on my regular test route in terms of average speed and time from start to finish.
It was a breeze - a lot more comfortable, controlled and collected than the 600bhp Supra which held my previous record on my test route.
Sure, the RS6 IS big. But then the 40v V8 4.2-litre bi-turbo quattro underpinnings are more than capable of scooping it along any B-road with great effect and startling speed both safely and securely.
Bob, son, drive an M5 (yawn) and a S-Type R (hic) and the the RS6 back-yo-back… they you'll be in no doubt which is capable of sucking the other two into it's air filters and squatting them out the tail pipes. M-way, A-road, B-road or test track. Having tried the lot, I'd take the Audi every day of the week. and twice on Sundays.
Tsk… rough ride my arse.
I once drove the Audi S8.
It was by far the best BIG sports limo I have ever driven - so Audi do to a certain extent know what they are doing.
The big Audis are (AFAIK) designed and built in Neckarsulm - which is the old NSU factory. I have a lot of respect for them. They made the near legendary NSU TTS and the NSU Ro 80, which I once had the priviledge of owning, and which was around 20 years ahead of its time.
Rgds, WalterU
P.S.: when I picked up my new A8 from the factory, I went to Neckarsulm (NSU) to do so.
P.P.S.: on Wednesday I was behind an Audi S4 in a long queue of traffic. Bloody hell!!! The overtaking capabilities of that car were incredible. I couldn't keep up. Mind you, having a LHD 911 didn't help ...
>> Edited by WalterU on Sunday 12th January 11:34
It was by far the best BIG sports limo I have ever driven - so Audi do to a certain extent know what they are doing.
The big Audis are (AFAIK) designed and built in Neckarsulm - which is the old NSU factory. I have a lot of respect for them. They made the near legendary NSU TTS and the NSU Ro 80, which I once had the priviledge of owning, and which was around 20 years ahead of its time.
Rgds, WalterU
P.S.: when I picked up my new A8 from the factory, I went to Neckarsulm (NSU) to do so.
P.P.S.: on Wednesday I was behind an Audi S4 in a long queue of traffic. Bloody hell!!! The overtaking capabilities of that car were incredible. I couldn't keep up. Mind you, having a LHD 911 didn't help ...
>> Edited by WalterU on Sunday 12th January 11:34
I agree here, Even comming from a Volvo V70 T5 the RS6 was awsome... more grip, more bite in the corners. actually prefere the seats in the V70, but the audi blew everything it came across away .. I always through that driving my favourite piece of road at 110 in the T5 was as absolutly as fast as humainly possible, when we took a friends new RS6 down there, I managed to blow my previous recorded speed and A to B time away by almost 5 minutes.
Now if we can please have the T6 engine in the V70 estates, the audi might have some competition
Now if we can please have the T6 engine in the V70 estates, the audi might have some competition
Well said gents; I have a similar inner scepticisim that all this 'vague steering' business is, frankly, reaching...
Nevertheless, wouldn't it be nice to 'do a Metcalfe' and have access to a couple of the best from the RS and AMG stables?
In particular, here, how does the E55 AMG feel?
Nevertheless, wouldn't it be nice to 'do a Metcalfe' and have access to a couple of the best from the RS and AMG stables?
In particular, here, how does the E55 AMG feel?
I had an s6..an awful car, that would impress people who confuse good grip with good handling.
i agree with rob on this one, yet you never can convince the Audi converts they seem to like the bone rattling ride capri control arm front suspension, badly placed engine , huge weight , and numbed steering response.
The interior and gearchange were first rate though. Its the car equivalent to gsxr 1100l. To translate for audi buffs that is not a compliment.
i agree with rob on this one, yet you never can convince the Audi converts they seem to like the bone rattling ride capri control arm front suspension, badly placed engine , huge weight , and numbed steering response.
The interior and gearchange were first rate though. Its the car equivalent to gsxr 1100l. To translate for audi buffs that is not a compliment.
Cripes... hadn't seen this post for months.
As some may know, I've sold a very quick car and needed a temporary quick 'kennel' for lots of motorway miles and overtaking of caravans.
So I bought me an 8 month old RS6.
I have to say I agree with a lot of the article. It's tight cornering is ...well it's 1800kg+ . End of story.
I disagree regarding it's straight line performance. It's not stunning. It's M3, but not 911tt. However, for it's size and weight it handles like a car on steroids - I am constantly surprised.
I have already investigated bumping bhp to 510 and getting rid of the daft limiter.
However, I'm finding it VERY comfortabe - even on crap Cumbrian back roads. Not sure why he felt it uncomfortable... I'm used to a Bavarian barge and it's more comfortable than that (and the barge has got less than half the BHP so can afford 'soft').
A track car it ain't, but I did near on 1000 miles in 24 hours in it at the weekend to and from the Highlands of Scotland - and when I got home, we went out again..... in the Audi.
Oh... and what a great noise. Griff 500 only car I've ever heard that sounds better inside.
burble, burble.
Steve
>> Edited by GetCarter on Tuesday 12th October 16:17
As some may know, I've sold a very quick car and needed a temporary quick 'kennel' for lots of motorway miles and overtaking of caravans.
So I bought me an 8 month old RS6.
I have to say I agree with a lot of the article. It's tight cornering is ...well it's 1800kg+ . End of story.
I disagree regarding it's straight line performance. It's not stunning. It's M3, but not 911tt. However, for it's size and weight it handles like a car on steroids - I am constantly surprised.
I have already investigated bumping bhp to 510 and getting rid of the daft limiter.
However, I'm finding it VERY comfortabe - even on crap Cumbrian back roads. Not sure why he felt it uncomfortable... I'm used to a Bavarian barge and it's more comfortable than that (and the barge has got less than half the BHP so can afford 'soft').
A track car it ain't, but I did near on 1000 miles in 24 hours in it at the weekend to and from the Highlands of Scotland - and when I got home, we went out again..... in the Audi.
Oh... and what a great noise. Griff 500 only car I've ever heard that sounds better inside.
burble, burble.
Steve
>> Edited by GetCarter on Tuesday 12th October 16:17
I find mine particularly good for visiting the dump - much to the amusement of the guys there when I told them it was my dump run car.
Mind you, I never have to unload my own rubbish. They can't wait to come over and just be near it.
But it drinks fuel, the brakes squeaked from 3k, the door rattles and yes, the aircon compressor makes driving with the radio off annoying. But it's the best car I've ever had. The M3 hurt my back and I rejected the crap S4.
Mind you, which car did I take for a day trip to Disneyland Paris....the Saab 93 sport saloon cab of course. Now there's a company that know how to make seats.
Mind you, I never have to unload my own rubbish. They can't wait to come over and just be near it.
But it drinks fuel, the brakes squeaked from 3k, the door rattles and yes, the aircon compressor makes driving with the radio off annoying. But it's the best car I've ever had. The M3 hurt my back and I rejected the crap S4.
Mind you, which car did I take for a day trip to Disneyland Paris....the Saab 93 sport saloon cab of course. Now there's a company that know how to make seats.
Farago's about right, you know.
After some unprecedented soul searching, triple test drives and road test scouring, I've recently bought a 18mth old RS6 Avant. It's a perfect example in spec and condition, bought from a main dealer. In case you don't know, all are 450bhp, 1850kg and auto with selectable paddle tiptronic.
Plus points;
1)Looks supreme in Avus silver with arch perfect 19", 5 spokes and is good to walk up to.
2)Every toy you can think of an some you can't- like a 3rd mini sun visor, above the rear view mirror.
3)Stunning traction. Aceelerates from standstill, like it was already doing 50mph. 4WD is Audi's trump card over the M5 and E55.
4)Beautiful handling and poise - no tyre scrub, except 'in extremis' - perfect geometry - corners sweeping bends, really like it's on rails. Doesn't pitch or roll.
5)Very accomodating for tall drivers. Seats have extendable squabs.
Negatives
1)High tech. user selectable settings overload. Engineers have made the car pre emt every thing you may want to do.
Like automatically selecting the appropriate gear, when in tiptronic mode. This is great except, when you are just about to do it. When yours and the car's downshifts colide, your suddenly redlining in first during an overtaking maneouvre.
2)Steering is inert and clinical just like the rest of the car. You have to steer by sight not feel. Acceptable in traffic - worrying on fast 'B' roads.
3)Monster acceleration and unavoidable weight means that you're constantly hard on the brakes. Seems impossible to get flowing through bends 'in the groove'.
4) Wide girth (6' 6") coupled with wafer thin 19" rims means you're constantly mindful of bad surfaces and kerbs.This inhibits your speed.
5) Short travel and naturally firm suspension, leads to 'bucking mule' progress on uneven roads.
Conclusion
If you're a middle of the road driver, like driving fast cars, but want to be looked after, then the Audi is it.You're probably never want to go quickly enough to find the problem.
In fact it's the do everthing car - no matter what your abilities.
It has the looks image, cred, ability, kit and road presence.
Fast and brilliant though it is, I keep feeling that I'm piloting the Starship Enterprise. And I don't need that. I don't need 500+ heater settings options.
Those of us that think we can drive a bit, need to be more involved.
We accept, that if we overstep the line, we will be punished. Get it right and we will be rewarded.
In my current experience the '87 Carrera 3.2 was the best tool in which I could achieve this.
Unfortunately, a current 996 RS would be unacceptable in the traffic that we all endure, on our journeys to work.Also my missus wouldn't want to go on holiday in it.
The perfect all round car for the keen driver? - I don't think it actually exists - although Subaru owners will be able to make a valid point.
>> Edited by crbox on Thursday 18th November 12:27
After some unprecedented soul searching, triple test drives and road test scouring, I've recently bought a 18mth old RS6 Avant. It's a perfect example in spec and condition, bought from a main dealer. In case you don't know, all are 450bhp, 1850kg and auto with selectable paddle tiptronic.
Plus points;
1)Looks supreme in Avus silver with arch perfect 19", 5 spokes and is good to walk up to.
2)Every toy you can think of an some you can't- like a 3rd mini sun visor, above the rear view mirror.
3)Stunning traction. Aceelerates from standstill, like it was already doing 50mph. 4WD is Audi's trump card over the M5 and E55.
4)Beautiful handling and poise - no tyre scrub, except 'in extremis' - perfect geometry - corners sweeping bends, really like it's on rails. Doesn't pitch or roll.
5)Very accomodating for tall drivers. Seats have extendable squabs.
Negatives
1)High tech. user selectable settings overload. Engineers have made the car pre emt every thing you may want to do.
Like automatically selecting the appropriate gear, when in tiptronic mode. This is great except, when you are just about to do it. When yours and the car's downshifts colide, your suddenly redlining in first during an overtaking maneouvre.
2)Steering is inert and clinical just like the rest of the car. You have to steer by sight not feel. Acceptable in traffic - worrying on fast 'B' roads.
3)Monster acceleration and unavoidable weight means that you're constantly hard on the brakes. Seems impossible to get flowing through bends 'in the groove'.
4) Wide girth (6' 6") coupled with wafer thin 19" rims means you're constantly mindful of bad surfaces and kerbs.This inhibits your speed.
5) Short travel and naturally firm suspension, leads to 'bucking mule' progress on uneven roads.
Conclusion
If you're a middle of the road driver, like driving fast cars, but want to be looked after, then the Audi is it.You're probably never want to go quickly enough to find the problem.
In fact it's the do everthing car - no matter what your abilities.
It has the looks image, cred, ability, kit and road presence.
Fast and brilliant though it is, I keep feeling that I'm piloting the Starship Enterprise. And I don't need that. I don't need 500+ heater settings options.
Those of us that think we can drive a bit, need to be more involved.
We accept, that if we overstep the line, we will be punished. Get it right and we will be rewarded.
In my current experience the '87 Carrera 3.2 was the best tool in which I could achieve this.
Unfortunately, a current 996 RS would be unacceptable in the traffic that we all endure, on our journeys to work.Also my missus wouldn't want to go on holiday in it.
The perfect all round car for the keen driver? - I don't think it actually exists - although Subaru owners will be able to make a valid point.
>> Edited by crbox on Thursday 18th November 12:27
I have a Misano RS6 Avant which I bought from new 18 months ago. I bought it because I wanted an everyday car that could be fun, carry the family and the dog, but also was fast and fun.
After 18 months with it I would sumit up that it simply 'does what it says on the tin' - Wet or Dry
I would comment on your point crbox as follows:
Overall I am extremely happy with the car, certain aspects are a compromise, but be real it is still a big estate car. When you understand the concept then you learn to appreciate it more and more.
For the use that I bought for - ie a spacious family car, for use in all conditions and for use as a daily workhorse - I dont think there is anything at any price that I would rather have, so for me it is the best allround car I (keen driver) can buy - not perfect, but the best compromise.
>> Edited by mal on Wednesday 24th November 07:57
After 18 months with it I would sumit up that it simply 'does what it says on the tin' - Wet or Dry
I would comment on your point crbox as follows:
crbox said:
Plus points;
1)Looks supreme in Avus silver with arch perfect 19", 5 spokes and is good to walk up to.
2)Every toy you can think of an some you can't- like a 3rd mini sun visor, above the rear view mirror.
3)Stunning traction. Aceelerates from standstill, like it was already doing 50mph. 4WD is Audi's trump card over the M5 and E55.
4)Beautiful handling and poise - no tyre scrub, except 'in extremis' - perfect geometry - corners sweeping bends, really like it's on rails. Doesn't pitch or roll.
5)Very accomodating for tall drivers. Seats have extendable squabs.
**I would agree with all of these plus points.
Negatives
1)High tech. user selectable settings overload. Engineers have made the car pre emt every thing you may want to do.
Like automatically selecting the appropriate gear, when in tiptronic mode. This is great except, when you are just about to do it. When yours and the car's downshifts colide, your suddenly redlining in first during an overtaking maneouvre.
**I would agree with this, but after a while you get used it and generally anticipate when the system will take over. I seem to let the system do some of the work and control the gears myeself on acceleration or to anticipate the right gear into corners and junctions
2)Steering is inert and clinical just like the rest of the car. You have to steer by sight not feel. Acceptable in traffic - worrying on fast 'B' roads.
**I would agree to a point, but it gets better with time and really bearing in mind the size, weight and bulk, would be surprised with anything else.
3)Monster acceleration and unavoidable weight means that you're constantly hard on the brakes. Seems impossible to get flowing through bends 'in the groove'.
**Monster acceleration in anycar can result in hard use of brakes, it depends how you use it.
4) Wide girth (6' 6") coupled with wafer thin 19" rims means you're constantly mindful of bad surfaces and kerbs.This inhibits your speed.
**Yes, but you are buying a big estate car not a sports car.
5) Short travel and naturally firm suspension, leads to 'bucking mule' progress on uneven roads.
**Dont agree - My family and I find the ride firm but comfortable - no worse than any other similar car.
Conclusion
If you're a middle of the road driver, like driving fast cars, but want to be looked after, then the Audi is it.You're probably never want to go quickly enough to find the problem.
In fact it's the do everthing car - no matter what your abilities.
It has the looks image, cred, ability, kit and road presence.
Fast and brilliant though it is, I keep feeling that I'm piloting the Starship Enterprise. And I don't need that. I don't need 500+ heater settings options.
Those of us that think we can drive a bit, need to be more involved.
We accept, that if we overstep the line, we will be punished. Get it right and we will be rewarded.
In my current experience the '87 Carrera 3.2 was the best tool in which I could achieve this.
Unfortunately, a current 996 RS would be unacceptable in the traffic that we all endure, on our journeys to work.Also my missus wouldn't want to go on holiday in it.
**You cant compare an RS6 with a 996RS, it is a totally different car - Most people I know (including me) with an RS6 have it as their everyday/ Family car and have a Porsche/ Ferrari as their play car.
The perfect all round car for the keen driver? - I don't think it actually exists - although Subaru owners will be able to make a valid point.
**I dont think a keen driver would be happy with the Suburu at all times - it is not particularly comfortable or spacious . By nature and laws of physics a big comfortable car can never match a sportscar, the only answer is to accept compromise is some areas or buy both!
Overall I am extremely happy with the car, certain aspects are a compromise, but be real it is still a big estate car. When you understand the concept then you learn to appreciate it more and more.
For the use that I bought for - ie a spacious family car, for use in all conditions and for use as a daily workhorse - I dont think there is anything at any price that I would rather have, so for me it is the best allround car I (keen driver) can buy - not perfect, but the best compromise.
>> Edited by mal on Wednesday 24th November 07:57
I dunno, in the admittedly few Audis I've been in they seem to rely on rock hard suspension and wide tyres to create an illusion of good handling which is merely very good grip. I guess it depends what you want from your handling, as although the cars gripped they were uncomfortable on corners and crashy over bumps in the road, supple just didn't come into it.
I drove a RS6 Estate for about 3 hours at the start of this year. I found it scary. The power is huge and instant, and really does *feel* like a big car. In fact, to me it felt bigger than the Phaeton I drove not long after. That had similar power (that W12 is nuts), and has bigger dimensions, but the difference in feel was astounding. Maybe it was just that one was like driving an ordinary saloon, and one was like driving a limo? Whatever, I preferred the limo!
>> Edited by Duncan23 on Wednesday 24th November 19:21
>> Edited by Duncan23 on Wednesday 24th November 19:21
[/quote]
Overall I am extremely happy with the car, certain aspects are a compromise, but be real it is still a big estate car. When you understand the concept then you learn to appreciate it more and more.
For the use that I bought for - ie a spacious family car, for use in all conditions and for use as a daily workhorse - I dont think there is anything at any price that I would rather have, so for me it is the best allround car I (keen driver) can buy - not perfect, but the best compromise.
>> Edited by mal on Wednesday 24th November 07:57[/quote]
I still maintain that the pitching on (really)undulating roads exists. However may be it's not such a big outgoing.I'm sure it's a result from a limited and consequently firm suspension travel.
I guess you can't have arch filling 19" alloys and long suspension travel.
However, I will agree that in most road situations, any car with strong acceleration, will result in equally heavy braking very soon after. Even an 996RS. I was underlining the point that big heavy cars cannot, by their nature, feel alltogether nimble.
My previous ride was a Volvo 850R Est.which was indeed lighter and more nimble, but being FWD, had embarassing traction issues.
Re. 'most owners have other vehicles'
Like your observation, I also have a hobby car for hard & competitive driving, which oddly enough and according to your profile, you also own.
Anyhow as most owners conlude, the Uberwagen's the best all rounder availablethe
>> Edited by crbox on Wednesday 24th November 13:47
Overall I am extremely happy with the car, certain aspects are a compromise, but be real it is still a big estate car. When you understand the concept then you learn to appreciate it more and more.
For the use that I bought for - ie a spacious family car, for use in all conditions and for use as a daily workhorse - I dont think there is anything at any price that I would rather have, so for me it is the best allround car I (keen driver) can buy - not perfect, but the best compromise.
>> Edited by mal on Wednesday 24th November 07:57[/quote]
I still maintain that the pitching on (really)undulating roads exists. However may be it's not such a big outgoing.I'm sure it's a result from a limited and consequently firm suspension travel.
I guess you can't have arch filling 19" alloys and long suspension travel.
However, I will agree that in most road situations, any car with strong acceleration, will result in equally heavy braking very soon after. Even an 996RS. I was underlining the point that big heavy cars cannot, by their nature, feel alltogether nimble.
My previous ride was a Volvo 850R Est.which was indeed lighter and more nimble, but being FWD, had embarassing traction issues.
Re. 'most owners have other vehicles'
Like your observation, I also have a hobby car for hard & competitive driving, which oddly enough and according to your profile, you also own.
Anyhow as most owners conlude, the Uberwagen's the best all rounder availablethe
>> Edited by crbox on Wednesday 24th November 13:47
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