Cerb LS1 progress
Discussion
The fuel tank has to come out of the car when lifting and the doors are left in place and closed to help keep the body rigid.
Back to more scary things....
Just got back from Tower View after completing the chassis jig that is needed to keep the chassis aligned when it is repaired. It was not the day to be wearing flameproof overalls, welding mask and gauntlets but needs must and I must have lost a lot of body weight. Interestingly enough, it did show up that the grotty outrigger on the driver's side has actually twisted out of alignment. Whether this happened when taking the body off or what I don't know but it definitely showed the use of the jig as we now have a good reference to work from. Simply cutting and replacing would have have led to building in the twist instead of taking it out.
The next stage is to get the 9 inch angle grinder and start cutting out the rusty bits and replacing with nice new steel. The fabrication needs to be quite exact as you can't use the normal trick of dropping the body and drilling new mounting holes which is another reason for the jig so that I can make sure the replacements fit and are exactly aligned before welding in place.
I'm using a milling machine with digital read out to get all the dimensions correct and to ensure that everything is in the right place. It can take a 6 foot length of bar with no problems and I can then position it exactly and repeatedly.
The Tower View guys have given it their approval and reckon it will save significant time for them for the next chassis repair they do. It may even make just lifting the body slightly instead of a complete removal feasible for outrigger replacement. Although a long hot tiring day, I'm feeling that this is a milestone.
Back to more scary things....
Just got back from Tower View after completing the chassis jig that is needed to keep the chassis aligned when it is repaired. It was not the day to be wearing flameproof overalls, welding mask and gauntlets but needs must and I must have lost a lot of body weight. Interestingly enough, it did show up that the grotty outrigger on the driver's side has actually twisted out of alignment. Whether this happened when taking the body off or what I don't know but it definitely showed the use of the jig as we now have a good reference to work from. Simply cutting and replacing would have have led to building in the twist instead of taking it out.
The next stage is to get the 9 inch angle grinder and start cutting out the rusty bits and replacing with nice new steel. The fabrication needs to be quite exact as you can't use the normal trick of dropping the body and drilling new mounting holes which is another reason for the jig so that I can make sure the replacements fit and are exactly aligned before welding in place.
I'm using a milling machine with digital read out to get all the dimensions correct and to ensure that everything is in the right place. It can take a 6 foot length of bar with no problems and I can then position it exactly and repeatedly.
The Tower View guys have given it their approval and reckon it will save significant time for them for the next chassis repair they do. It may even make just lifting the body slightly instead of a complete removal feasible for outrigger replacement. Although a long hot tiring day, I'm feeling that this is a milestone.
Steve, it seems to me that a 'detachable' outrigger would be worthwile. Being able to undo them to clean out the crap & re-rustproof would be great. Do you think it would be possible to make a flange or sleeve jointing mechanism to do this?
Just a thought I've been mulling over occasionally for a while now.
Dave
Just a thought I've been mulling over occasionally for a while now.
Dave
Nice idea but I don't think it is viable. The outriggers need to be strong and accurately aligned as they provide the main support for the body, roll cage and doors. Any sleeving mechanism would be at right angles to the main forces and that is not ideal and would introduce movement unless very substantial. The problem then is that there is little or no room to do this.
There is also the problem that the body is moulded around the outriggers in particular which means that detaching it would be a real challenge. You would have to lift the body to slide the outriggers in and out which rather defeats the object. If the body is lifted a few inches then access is OK to clean the outriggers anyway.
I am also not sure about the insurance implications either.
>> Edited by shpub on Thursday 14th July 07:14
There is also the problem that the body is moulded around the outriggers in particular which means that detaching it would be a real challenge. You would have to lift the body to slide the outriggers in and out which rather defeats the object. If the body is lifted a few inches then access is OK to clean the outriggers anyway.
I am also not sure about the insurance implications either.
>> Edited by shpub on Thursday 14th July 07:14
19560 said:Glad my thinking was - right. Forget F1 - all this fuel stop crap - they should fill up start race - RACE until the end without any fuel stops or tyres - all in identical early Lotus 49's - that would make for good racing - notthe Sh*te we have now.
I would have thought 3/4 of a tank is more than 30kilos, nearer 50 surely??? its a 65litre tank? 1 litre = 1kilo approx in F1 commentary terms
A 65 litre tank would weigh about 48kg www.simetric.co.uk/si_liquids.htm so 3/4 would be about 32kg.
Not the first time F1 commentary has been inaccurate... do they still race F1 cars btw????
LS6 supercharged Cerb sounds ace.
My F1 solution would be to give them all a budget limit of £20k, weight limit of 800kilos and make them run on my cars front tyres all round (145 profile fuel savers) - now *THAT* would be interesting.
LS6 supercharged Cerb sounds ace.
My F1 solution would be to give them all a budget limit of £20k, weight limit of 800kilos and make them run on my cars front tyres all round (145 profile fuel savers) - now *THAT* would be interesting.
jellison said:
Glad my thinking was - right. Forget F1 - all this fuel stop crap - they should fill up start race - RACE until the end without any fuel stops or tyres - all in identical early Lotus 49's - that would make for good racing - notthe Sh*te we have now.
No problem. I was half asleep mind - 32 is 2/3 of 48, 36 is 3/4 - not that it makes any difference for this thread.
How's your car running btw? What water temp did you manage to LM?
Well... the 10 metres of tubing I need to replace the rotten bits in the chassis arrived yesterday so the task of cutting to shape started. Now done the outriggers and all ready to weald the angle grinder.
The driver side outrigger is really badly out of alignment as the piccies show. We thing it happened when the body was lifted as one of the mounting bolts needed some persuausion to come free. The rest of the chassis is fine and the bend was simply caused by the very thin state of the metal.
www.shpub.co.uk/gallery/Cerb2/index.html has some piccies...
The driver side outrigger is really badly out of alignment as the piccies show. We thing it happened when the body was lifted as one of the mounting bolts needed some persuausion to come free. The rest of the chassis is fine and the bend was simply caused by the very thin state of the metal.
www.shpub.co.uk/gallery/Cerb2/index.html has some piccies...
steve .. have now chopped my rotten top rail out and welded in new section ... chipped off old power coat and as much surface rust as poss .. what do I do ...
waxdoyl only ... bituminised waxoyl only ... hamerite ... other paint??
what I am worried about is whats going to be going on under whatever coating I use ... if I use a bituminised waxoyl and check it every 6 months or so guess that may be the best of both worlds (not very nice to work on the car after though ...
I am assuming when engine rebuild time comes I may then concider the full chassis off job??
Any ideas greatfully recieved .. have read most of the threads on Paint por15 waxoil etc ...
good luck with yours .. DAS
waxdoyl only ... bituminised waxoyl only ... hamerite ... other paint??
what I am worried about is whats going to be going on under whatever coating I use ... if I use a bituminised waxoyl and check it every 6 months or so guess that may be the best of both worlds (not very nice to work on the car after though ...
I am assuming when engine rebuild time comes I may then concider the full chassis off job??
Any ideas greatfully recieved .. have read most of the threads on Paint por15 waxoil etc ...
good luck with yours .. DAS
-SXS- said:
steve, out of interest, how much is this chassis restoration alone costing you? ball-park figure?
It's a bit difficult to estimate as I am doing the work down at Tower View myself as an unpaid grease monkey. In exchange for them providing help and facillities, they get the jigs etc I've made so that the next time round will be cheaper as that will speed up the job and not need to be paid for.
The shot blasting and coating will be around the £500 mark. Biggest cost I would say is labour. It took a good day to get the body ready for lifting and that is with the engine already out. Once the chassis can be accessed, it is relatively straightforward to do the chassis once you have the jigs.
david smith said:
Any ideas greatfully recieved .. have read most of the threads on Paint por15 waxoil etc ...
I had POR15'd the front of the chassis that had been steam cleaned by a leaking rad and have been really impressed with the way it has survived. I would give it a couple of coats.
jellison said:
10 meters of tube - WHAT....!
Each outrigger is close to 2 meters in length. That makes 4 metres. The outrigger spars take another 1.5 m per side. That is 7m in total. The transmission top rails and braces take the rest. There is also 0.6 m of 3/4 solid rod that needs to be chopped and bored to make the body mount sleeves...
Nothing to do with the wheel base but it is not a bad idea...
Sorry about the nightmarish piccy but I've had to suffer so why shouldn't you! Dave at Tower View want to mount it as a trophy so that when people arrive depressed because of some problemor other, he can say "at least you haven't got this!".
One side has now been sorted out as you can see from the piccies at.
www.shpub.co.uk/gallery/Cerb3/index.html
The other side is almost there but I ran out of tubing and had to order some more. I've also completed the jig for the transmission tunnel and have the top rails being bent into shape for that. Most of the braces will need replacing as well as apart from the holes, the metal has thinned a little and it will be easier to replace the lot rather than anything else.
Going to rose joint the suspension and as I am now supplying rose jointed drop link for various cars, I am going to give the Cerbera the treatment as well.
It is going to get a blitz next week where I hope to have the chassis repairs completed and the chassis stripped ready for the final engine fitting.
>> Edited by shpub on Saturday 6th August 06:59
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