newbe looking for some sound advice on buying
Discussion
hi guys,
im new on here, and am in the process of selling two of my current cars to potentially go towards buying a cerbera. I've been reading some of the threads on here for a few weeks and there's a mass of info :-)
Now I ould have a budget of £12k which is a total push and would have to buy me one taht didnt need any inital major works carrying out.
I am have always done my own repairs and even recently my own remapping, so can tackle 90% of things that would come up.
With that in mind, how would that impact the "estimated yearly running costs".
Ive seen some pretty frightening costs in some threads that would probably exclude me from owning a cerb. figs of £3-5k per year. I am assuming this is if you farm everything out and including upgrades/improvements such as paint/interior etc.
I am quite keen on the v8 version, but have only ever been out in one briefly as a passenger, but instantly wanted one.
I have seen the price of the speed 6's now dropping, is there a reason for that?
In terms of reliability and outright cost to keep running, which is lowest? speed 6's or v8s?
I have seen tales of cranks going etc, is it fair to assume by this age most will have been sorted and most cars for sale on here pampered so to say??
Is there plenty of technical documentation available for carrying out work on these?
Look forward to hearing from you all.
Thanks
Chris
im new on here, and am in the process of selling two of my current cars to potentially go towards buying a cerbera. I've been reading some of the threads on here for a few weeks and there's a mass of info :-)
Now I ould have a budget of £12k which is a total push and would have to buy me one taht didnt need any inital major works carrying out.
I am have always done my own repairs and even recently my own remapping, so can tackle 90% of things that would come up.
With that in mind, how would that impact the "estimated yearly running costs".
Ive seen some pretty frightening costs in some threads that would probably exclude me from owning a cerb. figs of £3-5k per year. I am assuming this is if you farm everything out and including upgrades/improvements such as paint/interior etc.
I am quite keen on the v8 version, but have only ever been out in one briefly as a passenger, but instantly wanted one.
I have seen the price of the speed 6's now dropping, is there a reason for that?
In terms of reliability and outright cost to keep running, which is lowest? speed 6's or v8s?
I have seen tales of cranks going etc, is it fair to assume by this age most will have been sorted and most cars for sale on here pampered so to say??
Is there plenty of technical documentation available for carrying out work on these?
Look forward to hearing from you all.
Thanks
Chris
There are plenty of buying advice threads, have a look around. The crank issue is hardly worth worrying about. The costs for servicing and repairs are a lottery, it just depends. If you do it all yourself then you can halve it. So £1500 - £2500 should cover it notwithstanding they have foibles etc...
S6 v v8 has been done a few times, again take a search. There is a s6 engine forum (!).
S6 v v8 has been done a few times, again take a search. There is a s6 engine forum (!).
For what it is worth..and it depends on how good the car you buy to begin with is.. My total expense for the last 2 years has been approx £1k ..
New clutch .. repaired (not replaced) starter motor and a general service. All done by Topcats..
I think it is the same with any car, if you buy pigs ear to start with,you will spend and awful lot ofmoney trying to turn it into a silk purse!
New clutch .. repaired (not replaced) starter motor and a general service. All done by Topcats..
I think it is the same with any car, if you buy pigs ear to start with,you will spend and awful lot ofmoney trying to turn it into a silk purse!
For what it is worth..and it depends on how good the car you buy to begin with is.. My total expense for the last 2 years has been approx £1k ..
New clutch .. repaired (not replaced) starter motor and a general service. All done by Topcats..
I think it is the same with any car, if you buy pigs ear to start with,you will spend and awful lot ofmoney trying to turn it into a silk purse!
New clutch .. repaired (not replaced) starter motor and a general service. All done by Topcats..
I think it is the same with any car, if you buy pigs ear to start with,you will spend and awful lot ofmoney trying to turn it into a silk purse!
NeilH said:
I think it is the same with any car, if you buy pigs ear to start with,you will spend and awful lot ofmoney trying to turn it into a silk purse!
Agree wholeheartedly with Neil ,when I hear stories of people saying they have bought cars then spend huge amounts on servicing & they still go bang, you can only assume they must have rushed in or knew nothing about engine's etc .Find a few you like, get them checked out thoroughly by an expert after , it may cost a £500+ but it will be worth it in the long run,Good Luck .
There is doing work yourself, and doing work yourself IMO.
Changing discs&pads will save a few quid & is easily done on the drive. You'll save £200 in labour doing it yourself.
Same for windscreen wiper motor, or silly electrical gremlins, all easily solvable DIY.
A little more involved would be clutch changes/manifold removal etc, all doable with grit & determination on a driveway & you start saving £500/job here.
Where things get a real PITA is when you have engine out jobs. HGF, oil/water pump replacement - can you do this at home?
The other huge one is going to be chassis - can you do a bodylift & reweld, or would you have to pay out for that?
My advice would be think long and hard about how much you'd be willing to spend on a cerb. £1/k for 2 years by some other posters is great, I'd guarantee that's at the absolue lowest end of the ownership curve. Most people say £3-4K year because it costs that. In my case, £6K one year (HGF, 12K service, clutch etc...) and 1k the next. If you buy one that only needs the 1K a year you're laughing. They do exist. But cars which look great, get good reports from indi inspections are not immune from bending you over the bonnet.
Eyes open. You'll save a LOT if you run another car too. That way you can take your time repairing things as and when.
They are awesome though, I'm MASSIVELY missing the one I sold a few months back.
Changing discs&pads will save a few quid & is easily done on the drive. You'll save £200 in labour doing it yourself.
Same for windscreen wiper motor, or silly electrical gremlins, all easily solvable DIY.
A little more involved would be clutch changes/manifold removal etc, all doable with grit & determination on a driveway & you start saving £500/job here.
Where things get a real PITA is when you have engine out jobs. HGF, oil/water pump replacement - can you do this at home?
The other huge one is going to be chassis - can you do a bodylift & reweld, or would you have to pay out for that?
My advice would be think long and hard about how much you'd be willing to spend on a cerb. £1/k for 2 years by some other posters is great, I'd guarantee that's at the absolue lowest end of the ownership curve. Most people say £3-4K year because it costs that. In my case, £6K one year (HGF, 12K service, clutch etc...) and 1k the next. If you buy one that only needs the 1K a year you're laughing. They do exist. But cars which look great, get good reports from indi inspections are not immune from bending you over the bonnet.
Eyes open. You'll save a LOT if you run another car too. That way you can take your time repairing things as and when.
They are awesome though, I'm MASSIVELY missing the one I sold a few months back.
stuthemong said:
There is doing work yourself, and doing work yourself IMO.
Changing discs&pads will save a few quid & is easily done on the drive. You'll save £200 in labour doing it yourself.
Same for windscreen wiper motor, or silly electrical gremlins, all easily solvable DIY.
A little more involved would be clutch changes/manifold removal etc, all doable with grit & determination on a driveway & you start saving £500/job here.
Where things get a real PITA is when you have engine out jobs. HGF, oil/water pump replacement - can you do this at home?
The other huge one is going to be chassis - can you do a bodylift & reweld, or would you have to pay out for that?
My advice would be think long and hard about how much you'd be willing to spend on a cerb. £1/k for 2 years by some other posters is great, I'd guarantee that's at the absolue lowest end of the ownership curve. Most people say £3-4K year because it costs that. In my case, £6K one year (HGF, 12K service, clutch etc...) and 1k the next. If you buy one that only needs the 1K a year you're laughing. They do exist. But cars which look great, get good reports from indi inspections are not immune from bending you over the bonnet.
Eyes open. You'll save a LOT if you run another car too. That way you can take your time repairing things as and when.
They are awesome though, I'm MASSIVELY missing the one I sold a few months back.
Hi there, thanks, Changing discs&pads will save a few quid & is easily done on the drive. You'll save £200 in labour doing it yourself.
Same for windscreen wiper motor, or silly electrical gremlins, all easily solvable DIY.
A little more involved would be clutch changes/manifold removal etc, all doable with grit & determination on a driveway & you start saving £500/job here.
Where things get a real PITA is when you have engine out jobs. HGF, oil/water pump replacement - can you do this at home?
The other huge one is going to be chassis - can you do a bodylift & reweld, or would you have to pay out for that?
My advice would be think long and hard about how much you'd be willing to spend on a cerb. £1/k for 2 years by some other posters is great, I'd guarantee that's at the absolue lowest end of the ownership curve. Most people say £3-4K year because it costs that. In my case, £6K one year (HGF, 12K service, clutch etc...) and 1k the next. If you buy one that only needs the 1K a year you're laughing. They do exist. But cars which look great, get good reports from indi inspections are not immune from bending you over the bonnet.
Eyes open. You'll save a LOT if you run another car too. That way you can take your time repairing things as and when.
They are awesome though, I'm MASSIVELY missing the one I sold a few months back.
i know its out of context but so far on my other cars over the last few years, ive done headgaskets, head strip/re-builds, engines out, box/clutch changes, pistons out etc, valve clearances (i think similar techinique to that on TVR). So a fair bit..
I am reasonably comfortable welding have completed maybe 5 cars requiring major work, but none with a chassis like a TVR.
New garage being built nxt month so facilities there plus an everyday car.
So hoping most things could be tackled at home up to the point of at least stripping an engine..
Ive read a few comments about servicing, do many members on here just service themselves or do most (even if capable) entrust to specialist to maintain the history etc?
£750 ish seems quite a bit, would be interested to know whats covered for that?
also do folk adhere to every 6 months or 6k and 12 months 12k or just go by milegaes??
A lot of what you do & how you do it depends on what you want to do with the car. If you plan to run it for one year, then sell it, I'd recommend getting it serviced from a known dealer for peace of mind to teh next owner. IF you plan on keeping for a few years then servicing yourself will make more sense, be sure to keep detailed records, even photogrpah the camshafts/make records of shims heights etc.. when doing 12K tappets and it will help show the next guy you sell it to that you know what you are doing. A lot of cerbs fall 'into disrepute'. I'd pay a lot less, £1-2000 less for a DIY'd serviced car over a tip-top TVR power serviced one. Most would do the same as quite a few DIY'ers arent as thorough as main dealers in sorting everything so you end up with a climbing list of niggles.
So assuming you want to keep for a few years and you can DIY.
Most cerbs you buy will either be due, or have just had a service. I'd factor in a 12K service on purchase, and if it's just had one, great, but plan on doing it to get it to a good 'datum' where you know all fluids&filters are up to date.
On the cerbs servicing is labour, labour and labour. Parts cost for a 12K may be like £150, the other £600 is just hours you are paying for. This is good news for the confident DIYer!
It sounds to me like you are a real DIYer and not just a dreaming DIY (as I am, I basically don't have the infrastructure to take on the 'proper' jobs, where the savings are big) - so you should be good to go with a Cerb!
Service schedule is every 6K miles elapsed, or a year, whatever comes first. Typically you'll do about 5K road miles per year (classic policy 5K limit) so you'll do a 6K one year and a 12K the following. FLip-flopping between. A service is just oil, filters, and adjustments here and there. You'll probably need new TPots, coilpacks, some shims, stuff like that, but we're talking a few £100 for all parts and oil assuming normal worst case. Obviously if you have HGF, or top end wear et.c. then things get expensive once it's mechanical and not electrical failures - luckily its the electrical wear items that are most common to fail. That said, these engines do seem to often need rebuilds / gaskets IMO, so be careful in buying the right one - even then its a gamble!
To be honest with you, from what you've said, I think you'd get most value out of buying a non-runner or a car with a disclosed large fault. If you can buy a 'poorly' cerb for 7K, spend 3K rebuilding the engine, sorting everything, you'll have a £10K car that should be good to go with no surprises. The 'danger' of buying a 12K cerb that looks great on paper, is it can still grenade and you'd be in no better positon than having just biught the cheaper one. For most people this doesn't make sense, as to take a 7K non runner to a runner would cost about £14K+ paying garage rates (6K rebuild + 1K sundries, service, chassis, brakes etc..) so most people buy the nice 10-12K cerb and cross their fingers.
That said again, it depends on how much time & effort you're willing to deploy. I would keep going back to the top though, if £12K is your upper limit and a stretch, I'd not buy a 12K cerb. NUMEROUS people have a 3-4K bill first service. Find a car needing a loving home, build it EXACTLY as you want it, and for 10K +2K retrim you could have a minter that will be really reliable, sorted, and you'll know inside out & you'll have saved a cerb from scrappage!
So assuming you want to keep for a few years and you can DIY.
Most cerbs you buy will either be due, or have just had a service. I'd factor in a 12K service on purchase, and if it's just had one, great, but plan on doing it to get it to a good 'datum' where you know all fluids&filters are up to date.
On the cerbs servicing is labour, labour and labour. Parts cost for a 12K may be like £150, the other £600 is just hours you are paying for. This is good news for the confident DIYer!
It sounds to me like you are a real DIYer and not just a dreaming DIY (as I am, I basically don't have the infrastructure to take on the 'proper' jobs, where the savings are big) - so you should be good to go with a Cerb!
Service schedule is every 6K miles elapsed, or a year, whatever comes first. Typically you'll do about 5K road miles per year (classic policy 5K limit) so you'll do a 6K one year and a 12K the following. FLip-flopping between. A service is just oil, filters, and adjustments here and there. You'll probably need new TPots, coilpacks, some shims, stuff like that, but we're talking a few £100 for all parts and oil assuming normal worst case. Obviously if you have HGF, or top end wear et.c. then things get expensive once it's mechanical and not electrical failures - luckily its the electrical wear items that are most common to fail. That said, these engines do seem to often need rebuilds / gaskets IMO, so be careful in buying the right one - even then its a gamble!
To be honest with you, from what you've said, I think you'd get most value out of buying a non-runner or a car with a disclosed large fault. If you can buy a 'poorly' cerb for 7K, spend 3K rebuilding the engine, sorting everything, you'll have a £10K car that should be good to go with no surprises. The 'danger' of buying a 12K cerb that looks great on paper, is it can still grenade and you'd be in no better positon than having just biught the cheaper one. For most people this doesn't make sense, as to take a 7K non runner to a runner would cost about £14K+ paying garage rates (6K rebuild + 1K sundries, service, chassis, brakes etc..) so most people buy the nice 10-12K cerb and cross their fingers.
That said again, it depends on how much time & effort you're willing to deploy. I would keep going back to the top though, if £12K is your upper limit and a stretch, I'd not buy a 12K cerb. NUMEROUS people have a 3-4K bill first service. Find a car needing a loving home, build it EXACTLY as you want it, and for 10K +2K retrim you could have a minter that will be really reliable, sorted, and you'll know inside out & you'll have saved a cerb from scrappage!
Thought I'd reply as I had similar thoughts to you about servicing etc when I got my Cerb. As a mechanical engineer by trade and a keen car mechanic in my spare time, I had never previously paid anyone to do anything to any of my cars.
When I got the Cerb I knew I would have it for 2 years then be selling it and I thought it best to keep up the service history, so this is my word of caution! I hated paying people for work that would have been easy for me to do just for the sake of a stamp in a service book but anyway it went in for a 'fixed price service' at an indy, had a bit of a shock when I got a phone a phone call a week later saying my car was ready and that the bill was £1k bigger than the fixed price service due to them doing lots of other work to make the car tip top. Now I am all for having the car tip top, but those little jobs they did like adjusting the doors etc where my hobby jobs to do at the weekends!! I needed to be much more clear on this when I gave them the car!
Anyway, they are not complicated and if you are going to keep it for a decent amount of time then go for it with the home servicing and your bills will be much smaller
When I got the Cerb I knew I would have it for 2 years then be selling it and I thought it best to keep up the service history, so this is my word of caution! I hated paying people for work that would have been easy for me to do just for the sake of a stamp in a service book but anyway it went in for a 'fixed price service' at an indy, had a bit of a shock when I got a phone a phone call a week later saying my car was ready and that the bill was £1k bigger than the fixed price service due to them doing lots of other work to make the car tip top. Now I am all for having the car tip top, but those little jobs they did like adjusting the doors etc where my hobby jobs to do at the weekends!! I needed to be much more clear on this when I gave them the car!
Anyway, they are not complicated and if you are going to keep it for a decent amount of time then go for it with the home servicing and your bills will be much smaller
NeilH said:
For what it is worth..and it depends on how good the car you buy to begin with is.. My total expense for the last 2 years has been approx £1k ..
New clutch .. repaired (not replaced) starter motor and a general service. All done by Topcats..
I think it is the same with any car, if you buy pigs ear to start with,you will spend and awful lot ofmoney trying to turn it into a silk purse!
I'm more than suprised that anyone can suggest that 1k can cover the cost of parts (let alone labour) to fix / service a Tvr for 2 years. Really that's just a little 'out there' for me.New clutch .. repaired (not replaced) starter motor and a general service. All done by Topcats..
I think it is the same with any car, if you buy pigs ear to start with,you will spend and awful lot ofmoney trying to turn it into a silk purse!
HardToLove said:
That's hardly surprising as unfortunately
you seem to be one of the unluckiest owner's ever!
But yes it must be said that is the lowest
servicing cost by quite a margin.
what has my experience got to do with it or luck come to think of it. I am a perfectionist which doesnt bode well for tvr ownership.you seem to be one of the unluckiest owner's ever!
But yes it must be said that is the lowest
servicing cost by quite a margin.
Gazzab said:
I'm more than suprised that anyone can suggest that 1k can cover the cost of parts (let alone labour) to fix / service a Tvr for 2 years. Really that's just a little 'out there' for me.
On the other hand i think it can be done as long as the car is in good order to start with and the owner has all the tools to work on the car not that hard really. I am talking Diy owner and not fuel cost/insurance/mot road tax here.I would also say mileage is a big factor on what it would cost as well per year more you do per/year more it will cost goes with out saying really. but if under 5k the 1k should be easy to keep to as per my last post.
Might not happen as it is easy to get hooked on upgrades so some years it might well be bit more than 1k.
Might not happen as it is easy to get hooked on upgrades so some years it might well be bit more than 1k.
Do what you can yourself bud,and dont worry about service history cos you can see how a car has been treated.mine has all the paper work from new, had car fully checked at an indie...and told car is one of the best they have seen....only to put car on ramps at home and find outriggers gone etc etc.not moaning because garage did not put the rot there but they were supposed to have checked chassis.loads of other things i have found that should not be in the condition it is,but hey im doing the jobs one at a time and enjoying the whole thing.Check and double check the chassis,oil pressure,and dont be afraid to ask what may appear silly questions.
All this buying a good one goes back a few years now when cerberas started to go for silly money. Everybody knew that cheap cars equaled cheap pockets equaled sell on very quickly. There will eventually only be a few good cerbs out there to buy unless you want to spend big money getting them right again.
Gazzab does spend more than average on his car but that's his thing and sometimes just has to. Others don't have to and keep on top of things rather than going for perfection.
I know my car needs another steering rack but a little topping up has kept it going for an extra two years, so no cost there until I get it done once more.
Gazzab does spend more than average on his car but that's his thing and sometimes just has to. Others don't have to and keep on top of things rather than going for perfection.
I know my car needs another steering rack but a little topping up has kept it going for an extra two years, so no cost there until I get it done once more.
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