4.2 vs 4.5 question
Discussion
What differences are there? If the 4.2 is 360 bhp, is the 4.5 really 420?
Been looking through the forum, found the rolling road printouts and saw that the 4.5 only seems to put out a bit more than the 4.2
Is one more drive able than the other, power delivery etc?
I know this might cause a bun fight, I'm just trying to see if to get a cheap 4.5 that needs (more)work or get a reasonable good 4.2?
Been looking through the forum, found the rolling road printouts and saw that the 4.5 only seems to put out a bit more than the 4.2
Is one more drive able than the other, power delivery etc?
I know this might cause a bun fight, I'm just trying to see if to get a cheap 4.5 that needs (more)work or get a reasonable good 4.2?
I think most will say buy the best car you can for your budget.
I have a 4.2 and find it way more than enough for me to drive in anger even on the track it is still a lot of car but if your in to bragging rights buy a cheap one with a bust engine and drop a LS in that will blow most AJP's away if thats your thing
I have a 4.2 and find it way more than enough for me to drive in anger even on the track it is still a lot of car but if your in to bragging rights buy a cheap one with a bust engine and drop a LS in that will blow most AJP's away if thats your thing
scotty_d said:
I think most will say buy the best car you can for your budget.
I have a 4.2 and find it way more than enough for me to drive in anger even on the track it is still a lot of car but if your in to bragging rights buy a cheap one with a bust engine and drop a LS in that will blow most AJP's away if thats your thing
I'm not after bragging rights and I like the AJP design and wouldn't swap it for a LS. Is 1 engine better than the other?I have a 4.2 and find it way more than enough for me to drive in anger even on the track it is still a lot of car but if your in to bragging rights buy a cheap one with a bust engine and drop a LS in that will blow most AJP's away if thats your thing
4.5 just wants to accelerate to teh horizon and nut it realistic 400BHP.
4.2 much the same just slightly better behaved in it's general attitude realistic 360BHP
4.0 more like a modern straight 6 smooth and refined but it will still bite realistic 360BHP but less torque than a V8.
Early 4.2's had a smaller journal crank than the 4.5 and some snapped, if they are going to do that they would have by now.
Do not worry about the horror stories about the 4.0 engine, they mostly went wrong when new and have been sorted but if you want to be sure look for one that has been rebuilt by STR8SIX or TVR Power, they have the best reputation for getting these engines sorted properly.
AJP8 apart from the early 4.2's are pretty bullet proof, the weak points are mostly the ancillaries like the starter, pumps and alternator.
Main thing is condition and especially the chassis, buy one with hiostory from a proper TVR specialist not someone who does TVR along with other stuff.
4.2 much the same just slightly better behaved in it's general attitude realistic 360BHP
4.0 more like a modern straight 6 smooth and refined but it will still bite realistic 360BHP but less torque than a V8.
Early 4.2's had a smaller journal crank than the 4.5 and some snapped, if they are going to do that they would have by now.
Do not worry about the horror stories about the 4.0 engine, they mostly went wrong when new and have been sorted but if you want to be sure look for one that has been rebuilt by STR8SIX or TVR Power, they have the best reputation for getting these engines sorted properly.
AJP8 apart from the early 4.2's are pretty bullet proof, the weak points are mostly the ancillaries like the starter, pumps and alternator.
Main thing is condition and especially the chassis, buy one with hiostory from a proper TVR specialist not someone who does TVR along with other stuff.
gruffalo said:
4.5 just wants to accelerate to teh horizon and nut it realistic 400BHP.
4.2 much the same just slightly better behaved in it's general attitude realistic 360BHP
4.0 more like a modern straight 6 smooth and refined but it will still bite realistic 360BHP but less torque than a V8.
Early 4.2's had a smaller journal crank than the 4.5 and some snapped, if they are going to do that they would have by now.
Do not worry about the horror stories about the 4.0 engine, they mostly went wrong when new and have been sorted but if you want to be sure look for one that has been rebuilt by STR8SIX or TVR Power, they have the best reputation for getting these engines sorted properly.
AJP8 apart from the early 4.2's are pretty bullet proof, the weak points are mostly the ancillaries like the starter, pumps and alternator.
Main thing is condition and especially the chassis, buy one with hiostory from a proper TVR specialist not someone who does TVR along with other stuff.
Thanks. So the ajp6 is the smoothest, and possibly the 4.5 isn't worth the extra cash when I could get a better 4.2 for the money. 4.2 much the same just slightly better behaved in it's general attitude realistic 360BHP
4.0 more like a modern straight 6 smooth and refined but it will still bite realistic 360BHP but less torque than a V8.
Early 4.2's had a smaller journal crank than the 4.5 and some snapped, if they are going to do that they would have by now.
Do not worry about the horror stories about the 4.0 engine, they mostly went wrong when new and have been sorted but if you want to be sure look for one that has been rebuilt by STR8SIX or TVR Power, they have the best reputation for getting these engines sorted properly.
AJP8 apart from the early 4.2's are pretty bullet proof, the weak points are mostly the ancillaries like the starter, pumps and alternator.
Main thing is condition and especially the chassis, buy one with hiostory from a proper TVR specialist not someone who does TVR along with other stuff.
DarrenRGD said:
What differences are there? If the 4.2 is 360 bhp, is the 4.5 really 420?
Been looking through the forum, found the rolling road printouts and saw that the 4.5 only seems to put out a bit more than the 4.2
Is one more drive able than the other, power delivery etc?
I know this might cause a bun fight, I'm just trying to see if to get a cheap 4.5 that needs (more)work or get a reasonable good 4.2?
BHP figures are a bit ambitious and about 40 out - my 4.5 was between 350 and 360 prior to remap, now it's over 400.Been looking through the forum, found the rolling road printouts and saw that the 4.5 only seems to put out a bit more than the 4.2
Is one more drive able than the other, power delivery etc?
I know this might cause a bun fight, I'm just trying to see if to get a cheap 4.5 that needs (more)work or get a reasonable good 4.2?
In the real world there's not much between them - but if you're interested in tuning, the 4.5 is the better bet.
If you're in it for the long haul, I'd recommend a 4.5 that you can take time to get how you want. If not, or you decide after a few months that it's not the car for you - you'll probably take less of a financial hit on a sorted 4.2 and will find it easier to sell.
Drive and be a passenger in as many as you can, take your time before taking the plunge (easier said than done I know) - and get the best you can.
My take on the engine variants:
4.2 vs 4.5: the 4.5 is slightly slower revving (as in throttle response) giving the engine a slightly more heavy weight feel, but will produce noticeably more power given comparable states of tune. Untuned 4.5s underperform but this is easily rectified. Once on song, the 4.5 will pull harder, and not only above 100mph as some people say. A well tuned 4.5 is a serious piece of kit which compares well with modern machinery. A well tuned 4.2 performs similarly on the road but you will notice the difference in torque from the driver's seat even if the real world comparison only shows marginal differences. Bear in mind that the 4.5 Cerbera is the most powerful car TVR ever made, and as such has a certain caché/bragging rights and commands better residuals. Good aftermarket development ( APM / Power 4.7 ) which are highly revered. Aside from slightly higher resale prices, there is no real difference (or disrespect) in TVR circles owning a 4.2 vs a 4.5
Speed Six: hugely underrated and overly berated It's a fine engine in the cerb just as it is in any other car. Looked down upon solely because the AJP8 was only used in the Cerbera for production cars, or to put another way, the AJP8 is what makes the Cerbera special / different. Reliability concerns pushed prices down which makes them relatively cheap / good value. Rebuild options aplenty with up to 5 year warranty (where else can you get that?). Not quite as grunty / gutteral as the V8 which has a charm all of its own which sets it apart from the speed sixes (hence the earlier comment about S6's in cerbs). Fantastic exhaust note under power (arguably better than the 8) but some might argue less of 'an occasion' to drive compared with the V8 which has an agricultural-yet-performant character - lambo-like? - compared to the relatively refined six.
4.2 vs 4.5: the 4.5 is slightly slower revving (as in throttle response) giving the engine a slightly more heavy weight feel, but will produce noticeably more power given comparable states of tune. Untuned 4.5s underperform but this is easily rectified. Once on song, the 4.5 will pull harder, and not only above 100mph as some people say
. A well tuned 4.5 is a serious piece of kit which compares well with modern machinery. A well tuned 4.2 performs similarly on the road but you will notice the difference in torque from the driver's seat even if the real world comparison only shows marginal differences. Bear in mind that the 4.5 Cerbera is the most powerful car TVR ever made, and as such has a certain caché/bragging rights and commands better residuals. Good aftermarket development ( APM / Power 4.7 ) which are highly revered. Aside from slightly higher resale prices, there is no real difference (or disrespect) in TVR circles owning a 4.2 vs a 4.5Speed Six: hugely underrated and overly berated
It's a fine engine in the cerb just as it is in any other car. Looked down upon solely because the AJP8 was only used in the Cerbera for production cars, or to put another way, the AJP8 is what makes the Cerbera special / different. Reliability concerns pushed prices down which makes them relatively cheap / good value. Rebuild options aplenty with up to 5 year warranty (where else can you get that?). Not quite as grunty / gutteral as the V8 which has a charm all of its own which sets it apart from the speed sixes (hence the earlier comment about S6's in cerbs). Fantastic exhaust note under power (arguably better than the 8) but some might argue less of 'an occasion' to drive compared with the V8 which has an agricultural-yet-performant character - lambo-like? - compared to the relatively refined six.Edited by FarmyardPants on Saturday 22 September 21:49
I like a good S6, but a Cerb HAS to be the AJPV8... End of. There is no other engine like it. The drama and occasion is unbeatable. The way my Cerb turns heads and creates comment is utterly ridiculous. Starting it up and getting the mechanical clatter, the exhaust rumble, the thunder as you floor it, fireworks as you change gear/back off the throttle.. Untouchable.
That isn't to say the S6 Cerb isn't a good car.. BUT.. You get my point.
That isn't to say the S6 Cerb isn't a good car.. BUT.. You get my point.
PuffsBack said:
gruffalo said:
4.0 more like a modern straight 6 smooth and refined but it will still bite realistic 360BHP but less torque than a V8.
Err....the S6 actually has 10lb-ft more than the 4.2AJPDarrenRGD said:
gruffalo said:
4.5 just wants to accelerate to teh horizon and nut it realistic 400BHP.
4.2 much the same just slightly better behaved in it's general attitude realistic 360BHP
4.0 more like a modern straight 6 smooth and refined but it will still bite realistic 360BHP but less torque than a V8.
Early 4.2's had a smaller journal crank than the 4.5 and some snapped, if they are going to do that they would have by now.
Do not worry about the horror stories about the 4.0 engine, they mostly went wrong when new and have been sorted but if you want to be sure look for one that has been rebuilt by STR8SIX or TVR Power, they have the best reputation for getting these engines sorted properly.
AJP8 apart from the early 4.2's are pretty bullet proof, the weak points are mostly the ancillaries like the starter, pumps and alternator.
Main thing is condition and especially the chassis, buy one with hiostory from a proper TVR specialist not someone who does TVR along with other stuff.
Thanks. So the ajp6 is the smoothest, and possibly the 4.5 isn't worth the extra cash when I could get a better 4.2 for the money. 4.2 much the same just slightly better behaved in it's general attitude realistic 360BHP
4.0 more like a modern straight 6 smooth and refined but it will still bite realistic 360BHP but less torque than a V8.
Early 4.2's had a smaller journal crank than the 4.5 and some snapped, if they are going to do that they would have by now.
Do not worry about the horror stories about the 4.0 engine, they mostly went wrong when new and have been sorted but if you want to be sure look for one that has been rebuilt by STR8SIX or TVR Power, they have the best reputation for getting these engines sorted properly.
AJP8 apart from the early 4.2's are pretty bullet proof, the weak points are mostly the ancillaries like the starter, pumps and alternator.
Main thing is condition and especially the chassis, buy one with hiostory from a proper TVR specialist not someone who does TVR along with other stuff.
It was the decision I made when I was in your current position.
gruffalo said:
If you want drama and just that knpwledge that you are driving something that is completely bonkers get the 4.5, in my mind they are worth the extra cash.
It was the decision I made when I was in your current position.
I thought they were all bonkers! Or is that just the owners?It was the decision I made when I was in your current position.
DarrenRGD said:
gruffalo said:
If you want drama and just that knpwledge that you are driving something that is completely bonkers get the 4.5, in my mind they are worth the extra cash.
It was the decision I made when I was in your current position.
I thought they were all bonkers! Or is that just the owners?It was the decision I made when I was in your current position.
The 4.5 isnt the quickest that honour goes to the 4.2 according to roadtests, the 4.2 is better at lower revs & the 4.5 comes good after 5500rpm, i thought the speed six was easily the smoothest engine when i drove one but like you i always wanted a V8 in my TVR.
The 4.5 is more adaptable to tuning i believe, but there are many more experts on here than me!
gruffalo said:
but at higher revs, if you want grunt to pull you out of a corner the V8 would normally do the better job of it.
Yep agree, after going to a S6 Cerb after a Griff 500 it was a bit of a shock! Then you discover 4500rpm in the Speed 6 and just hang on!If there is one place I think the S6 is superior to the AJP is in drama! Because the power and torque all arrive in quite a narrow band everything happens very quickly once in that range.
I find it quite a knackering to drive it fast as you are constantly having to evaluate what the next bend is like and what gear to be in. My Griff by comparison was a little dull acceleration wise as the power was so linear, however you could drive it very fast all day long and let that wave of torque pull you out the bends.
I would try both a AJP and a S6 if you are thinking of buying. To me the S6 is the better engine, and by quite some margin, BUT still I sometimes think I wish a 4.5 V8 was under the bonnet and I totally understand when people say the Cerb really should have an AJP, maybe its because I am tight and the S6 is a lot lighter on the wallet :-)
Edited by PuffsBack on Sunday 23 September 09:57
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