Crankshaft failure on AJP 4.2 Cerbera - Engine conversion?
Discussion
Evening chaps
sadly the crankshaft went on my cerbera on the way back to the hotel from the nurburgring (didnt even get to take it on!!)
after many phone calls, it would appear that its not uncommon for this to happen, how it can happen is beyond me though.
replacement of the AJP looks to cost £3000 +VAT for a 19,000 1997 AJP 4.2 engine, plus fitment.
rebuild looks to cost over £6000
so what of installing another engine, such as the Ford 4,6 unit. on speaking to various people a company called Euphoria Racing have raced cerberas and tuscans and also done the conversion for road cars with this carb'd ford 4.6 unit, which comes with 600bhp and also does away with the apparantly crap TVR management system.
anyone know anyone who has had this done, or any thoughts?
surely a cerbera with a more reliable engine, thats proven, and can be serviced more economically, is more pwoerful and faster is a good thing?
thanks for your thoughts
sadly the crankshaft went on my cerbera on the way back to the hotel from the nurburgring (didnt even get to take it on!!)
after many phone calls, it would appear that its not uncommon for this to happen, how it can happen is beyond me though.
replacement of the AJP looks to cost £3000 +VAT for a 19,000 1997 AJP 4.2 engine, plus fitment.
rebuild looks to cost over £6000
so what of installing another engine, such as the Ford 4,6 unit. on speaking to various people a company called Euphoria Racing have raced cerberas and tuscans and also done the conversion for road cars with this carb'd ford 4.6 unit, which comes with 600bhp and also does away with the apparantly crap TVR management system.
anyone know anyone who has had this done, or any thoughts?
surely a cerbera with a more reliable engine, thats proven, and can be serviced more economically, is more pwoerful and faster is a good thing?
thanks for your thoughts
i appreciate what you say TT Tim, but the costs of that are beyond me at the moment, and the only engine iv come across doesnt come with warranty and will have the same inherant AJP problems, everyone iv spoke to who races, or repairs or breaks them tells me the AJP is a crap engine.
Sorry to hear the bad news - apparently it has happened before that some of the earlier 4.2's snapped the crank, not that that is any consolation.
Replacement or Re-build? Plenty of good arguments can be made for either option, but it all depends wether you want to spend £3k or £6k.
Install a Yank V8?I know Euphoria, Steve Howard replaced a Speed6 - not sure which TVR it was, I'm not very good on my Post Cerbera TVR's
) - with the Ford V8. But he also installed an AJP V8 into a MK1 Escort thats was used for racing, and he rates the AJP V8 highly.
Again, you can spend days discussing the merits of installing a reliable, proven Yank V8, but the AJP is, IMHO, the heart of the Cerbera.
Lets just say that the Cerbera body shape was proven to be un-aerodynamic. It might then makes sense to replace the body with one from a Ferrari replica kit car - but it wouldnt be a Cerbera then would it.
All subjective of course
Replacement or Re-build? Plenty of good arguments can be made for either option, but it all depends wether you want to spend £3k or £6k.
Install a Yank V8?I know Euphoria, Steve Howard replaced a Speed6 - not sure which TVR it was, I'm not very good on my Post Cerbera TVR's
) - with the Ford V8. But he also installed an AJP V8 into a MK1 Escort thats was used for racing, and he rates the AJP V8 highly.Again, you can spend days discussing the merits of installing a reliable, proven Yank V8, but the AJP is, IMHO, the heart of the Cerbera.
Lets just say that the Cerbera body shape was proven to be un-aerodynamic. It might then makes sense to replace the body with one from a Ferrari replica kit car - but it wouldnt be a Cerbera then would it.
All subjective of course
V8loudpedal said:
i appreciate what you say TT Tim, but the costs of that are beyond me at the moment, and the only engine iv come across doesnt come with warranty and will have the same inherant AJP problems, everyone iv spoke to who races, or repairs or breaks them tells me the AJP is a crap engine.
I've also heard of the ford conversion done by Euphoria - worth checking out. In addition, Steve Heath designed his LS1 conversion for just this scenario, so talk to him too.Finally, try talking to Andy at APM, he may have a more economical rebuild option for the AJP V8.
Whichever way you go, good luck!
V8loudpedal said:
...everyone iv spoke to who races, or repairs or breaks them tells me the AJP is a crap engine.
I think that comes under the 'don't believe everything you're told' heading. :no:The AJP is NOT a crap engine. But everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
As an aside, how much is a transplant of a Ford v8 going to cost? I can't see how it would be more economic than rebuilding an AJP8.
I still haven't worked out how people can justify the £6K rebuild costs.
How bad is yours? Did piston meet valves? have you had it stripped down?
Don't write off the AJP - phone around, I reccomend APM for an honest and trustworthy appraisal.
Oh, adn if the engine is a 'write off' there's plenty of bits that people will gladly pay good money for. Inlets, heads, oil pump ass' etc etc, all worth money offsetting the cost, so don't let the garage 'dispose' of your old engine or you'll see it in parts on eBay the following week!
Good luck whatever route you choose.
Tim
i would go for a LS1 engine, but im on a tight budget having just bought a house.
if i could put the money into a AJP engine rebuild then maybe that might be an option, but again id be left with what seems to be regarded as an unreliable unit. this is the view that comes across from those who maintain and break them the cars, not own them. theres a difference in that.
as for the ford unit, the figures i quoted are what iv been quoted, its a tuned race prepared engine that comes warranted from ford with those power figures.
does anyone have andy at APM's number, iv heard hes just stripped a 4.5 engine and the crank is a better crank.
unfortunatly im on a tighter than hoped budget and the ford engine is a more economic option thus farm warranted and proven and does away with the troublesome engine management system and is brand new.
a cerbera with more power, greater reliability and better servicing is bound to be a better bet. iv got both Sprint mag and classic cars who want to do artciles on it, so that leads to a better sales potential afterwards.
500 - 600bhp is always attractive especially from a proven lump. it might be the best option for time and funds. the LS1 engine conversions are priced at aroudn £13,00 presently, the ford carb'd units come fully installed at £5 -6 grand.
if i could put the money into a AJP engine rebuild then maybe that might be an option, but again id be left with what seems to be regarded as an unreliable unit. this is the view that comes across from those who maintain and break them the cars, not own them. theres a difference in that.
as for the ford unit, the figures i quoted are what iv been quoted, its a tuned race prepared engine that comes warranted from ford with those power figures.
does anyone have andy at APM's number, iv heard hes just stripped a 4.5 engine and the crank is a better crank.
unfortunatly im on a tighter than hoped budget and the ford engine is a more economic option thus farm warranted and proven and does away with the troublesome engine management system and is brand new.
a cerbera with more power, greater reliability and better servicing is bound to be a better bet. iv got both Sprint mag and classic cars who want to do artciles on it, so that leads to a better sales potential afterwards.
500 - 600bhp is always attractive especially from a proven lump. it might be the best option for time and funds. the LS1 engine conversions are priced at aroudn £13,00 presently, the ford carb'd units come fully installed at £5 -6 grand.
Fitting a 600 bhp engine in to a Cerb is not a cheap option. The engine might be cheap but the components around it to make it reliable won't be. Don't underestimate the engineering involved either. New gearbox, custom exhaust etc are all major factors that need to go into the equation. Not totally convinced the Ford V8 is an easy fit like the LS1 because of its size. It is a tall engine.
If you are on a tight budget about £7k will get you a LS1 in a Cerb reusing the transmission, exhaust etc with a S/H engine. Slightly more for a new one. This is what I did with my Cerbera in-conjunction with Dave at TVR Services and we could do a similar conversion. Slightly more bhp than standard but smoothy and more reliable. You can then go down the more power route at a later date if you want.
As for the car not being a Cerb? Having experienced three AJP engine failures... I think I have served my time with these engines and I wanted something that was less likely to go bang. It has made the car into one that is as quick if not a touch faster but easier to drive with the lower down torque.
PM if you are interested.
If you are on a tight budget about £7k will get you a LS1 in a Cerb reusing the transmission, exhaust etc with a S/H engine. Slightly more for a new one. This is what I did with my Cerbera in-conjunction with Dave at TVR Services and we could do a similar conversion. Slightly more bhp than standard but smoothy and more reliable. You can then go down the more power route at a later date if you want.
As for the car not being a Cerb? Having experienced three AJP engine failures... I think I have served my time with these engines and I wanted something that was less likely to go bang. It has made the car into one that is as quick if not a touch faster but easier to drive with the lower down torque.
PM if you are interested.
Edited by shpub on Saturday 17th May 00:08
I think the American V8 options are worth exploring. As Steve says, there is lots of engineering involved, but it looks like both the Chev LS1 and Ford V8 are viable.
Me, I'd probably stick to the AJP, I've had a good run with mine, and others are getting up there in terms of mileage. The engine has a lot of character, but we need to remember they only made a few thousand of them, whereas the American V8s were built in millions.
Paradoxically for me, thats reason enough to stick with something built by a handful of northerners
Me, I'd probably stick to the AJP, I've had a good run with mine, and others are getting up there in terms of mileage. The engine has a lot of character, but we need to remember they only made a few thousand of them, whereas the American V8s were built in millions.
Paradoxically for me, thats reason enough to stick with something built by a handful of northerners
V8loudpedal said:
sadly the crankshaft went on my cerbera (...) after many phone calls, it would appear that its not uncommon for this to happen
V8loudpedal said:
the only engine iv come across doesnt come with warranty and will have the same inherant AJP problems, everyone iv spoke to who races, or repairs or breaks them tells me the AJP is a crap engine
V8loudpedal said:
a cerbera with more power, greater reliability and better servicing is bound to be a better bet.
V8loudpedal said:
if i could put the money into a AJP engine rebuild then maybe that might be an option, but again id be left with what seems to be regarded as an unreliable unit.
Welcome to the TVR Cerbera forum 
. What made you choose to buy one, out of interest?Morning chaps,
i went for a cerbera because i love the looks, the bonkers interior, the noise and the performance. i did know, but not quite to the extent i do now, that the AJP engine has had major reliability and component failures.
The option i have outlined comes as a complete package, with all neccesary works done. the engine comes with these figures out of the crate so to speak and is professionally installed and plumbed in by Euphoria Racing. this company has done more than a few of these conversions with this carb'd version of the Ford 4.6 unit. they also now race them in cerbera's and Tuscans.
as for other component changes, the gearbox can more than take the power, but brakes get an upgrade to 6pots at the front.
i have a larger than standard bore racing exhaust already and adpatation is not a problem.
this is a complete package, and is more economic than the LS1 or & engine options, which are also heavier and more complex to install as it involves more work on the engine management side, this ford option removes that complication as it is not injected.
there will be an article on the conversion in an up and coming Sprint issue and also Classic Cars mag for those who are interested.
im reluctant to go down the AJP route, because it will be a second hand engine with relitivly unknown history, and the same may happen again, and then im faced with a car thats done 33k and an engine thats done 19K for example. a brand new engine thats warranted and installed with warranty is for me a better option. especially ones thats got proven reliability and credentials.
thank u all for your views, its hugely appreciated.
i went for a cerbera because i love the looks, the bonkers interior, the noise and the performance. i did know, but not quite to the extent i do now, that the AJP engine has had major reliability and component failures.
The option i have outlined comes as a complete package, with all neccesary works done. the engine comes with these figures out of the crate so to speak and is professionally installed and plumbed in by Euphoria Racing. this company has done more than a few of these conversions with this carb'd version of the Ford 4.6 unit. they also now race them in cerbera's and Tuscans.
as for other component changes, the gearbox can more than take the power, but brakes get an upgrade to 6pots at the front.
i have a larger than standard bore racing exhaust already and adpatation is not a problem.
this is a complete package, and is more economic than the LS1 or & engine options, which are also heavier and more complex to install as it involves more work on the engine management side, this ford option removes that complication as it is not injected.
there will be an article on the conversion in an up and coming Sprint issue and also Classic Cars mag for those who are interested.
im reluctant to go down the AJP route, because it will be a second hand engine with relitivly unknown history, and the same may happen again, and then im faced with a car thats done 33k and an engine thats done 19K for example. a brand new engine thats warranted and installed with warranty is for me a better option. especially ones thats got proven reliability and credentials.
thank u all for your views, its hugely appreciated.
Last time a non-AJP Cerbera was sold it was a yank engine but an old iron block version. It was for sale for ages and if anything it lowered the value of the car.
I am a fan of the LSn engines in Cerbs and would love one. That seems a step forward in so many ways. I also love the AJP. I have had to fork out for 2 rebuilds (4.5s) but they are pretty tough and are easily good for 50k miles or sometimes a lot more. You could possibly rebuild your car for £4.5K , less if you do some work yourself. I cant see any form of transplant being less than that.
I am a fan of the LSn engines in Cerbs and would love one. That seems a step forward in so many ways. I also love the AJP. I have had to fork out for 2 rebuilds (4.5s) but they are pretty tough and are easily good for 50k miles or sometimes a lot more. You could possibly rebuild your car for £4.5K , less if you do some work yourself. I cant see any form of transplant being less than that.
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